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Comments
You've really lost me on this one. The A8's interior is immaculate. It blends old-fashioned luxury cues with high technology better than just about every other interior in the business at any price, and the only interiors better than the A8's generally tend to come in VWAG cars. Say what you want about VW, but they know interiors. Town Car? Really?
When I look at Acura interiors, I don't think "technically advanced". I think that about Audi or Infiniti. When I look at Acura, I think "somebody paid 40 grand for this? The RDX interior is something Mazda or Toyota could do. The TL's interior is laughably bad. It was always laughably bad, but they had a better excuse when a TL cost $30K. Same goes for the MDX. Its cheesy, fake interior was more excusable when it cost $35K. Acura prices keep creeping up, but their interiors haven't improved, and the trims are no more real than they were in the CL, Vigor, and SLX. The fact that the Infiniti EX humiliates Acura's $50K cars on the inside is just embarrassing.
For my personal taste, the faux wood in Acuras (I believe all except the RL?) just knocks those cars out of the luxury category. That's one reason I'm not going to consider the MDX.
"Toyota's upmarket car brand is dumping plans to build a RAV-4-based SUV in favor of crafting the Lexus of small cars. An unnamed, overly-grammatical Lexus executive claimed "the booming small passenger market in Europe has required us to rethink the situation in terms of the sub-RX entry-level SUV. In response, we have decided to shift from SUV to passenger car, under the project name of C-Premium." The new baby Lexus will be offered in both sedan and hatchback versions. It should arrive just in time to help Lexus meet stricter CO2 and fuel economy standards. Let's just hope the "C" in "C-Premium" doesn't mean "Corolla."
So now instead of being really late to the CUV party, they're going to be really late to the uber-compact party. Way to waffle, Lexus. I still can't wait to see how they are going to fit people, Americans especially, in the back of a car smaller than the IS.
Wow... that's interesting and quite a surprise. You know, LG, I'm not sure I even totally believe it. It's too absurd for Lexus to walk away from what is going to be a huge market, that being the smaller semi-lux SUV/CUV.
With regards to how to fit people in the back seat of a small sedan/ hatchback... Lexus could take some lessons from Honda and VW in that regard. Of course the smaller vehicle will likely be FWD and inherently offer more cabin space. My GTI has more rear space than the last generation C-Class Mercedes. FWD and a hatch design can do wonders in the cabin.
But, really, I'll bet a bunch of green that Lexus ultimately offers a small SUV or CUV. I see no way that they will turn their back entirely on the BMW X3, Mercedes GLK, Audi Q5, VW Tiguan, and the others... and watch that market grow and grow and grow, as it surely will.
TagMan
Ding Ding Ding!!!
Exactly, it's "old fashioned". Not exactly my cup of cake. Same goes for the Jag interior, no feeling for that either.
Also, I was comparing the A8 to Town Car in terms of interior styling only. Build and material quality wise Audi is among the leaders in the luxury segment.
The TL's interior is laughably bad
The TL interior is just AWESOME, the best in its class if not the whole industry (again, I am talking about styling here). It flows smoothly, color selection is good and the whole environment gives a very comfortable look without being bland. The A4 interior feels comfortable as well but it is very very bland (call it subtle if you want but I like bland better).
I do agree faux wood shouldn't be used in a luxury car but at the same time I really don't give a *beep* because I really don't like wood. It's aluminum or metallic look all the way for me.
Looking at the EX's interior really hurts my eyes. I'll take the RDX and X3's over that any day of the week.
TTAC are idiots. Any people with basic knowledge about the car industry would know that C-Premium means a premium C-segment car.
The news sounds like another smoking screen to me since there are spy shots already for Lexus caught testing a smaller SUV. I would like to see Lexus offering both, more power to the buyers.
Have you been inside a Bentley, or a Rolls any time recently? Or even a Quattroporte?
Not your "cup of cake?" I don't know exactly what that means, but I drool over their interiors. Sure I love the interior in my Porsche, and the latest Jag XK, for example... but there's something very, very special about those classic interiors that is timeless, IMO. My heart picks up a pace or two sitting inside one of those classic interiors. Just downright eternally beautiful.
BTW, I think you are off the mark on placing the Acura interior on such a pedestal. While I tend to like their interiors, their materials are not top notch by any means, and they certainly aren't of the caliber you are suggesting.
TagMan
Like I said, I really don't prefer classic looking interiors, I think they are dated and old fashion. Not like there is anything wrong with it but I prefer the jet fighter cockpit look over the wooden sail boat kind of feel.
As for you guys kept knocking on me placing Acura in first, didn't you actually READ my post before replying? I kept saying that the ranking I made is for interior styling only and has nothing to do with build and material quality. Also, how can I be "off the mark" since that was supposed to be MY LIST?
Personally the 'tech' look dates too fast for me. Today's tech is tomorrow's passe.
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I have no problem with both, and in fact own a modern Porsche with modern carbon-fiber and aluminum in the interior as well as modern switches and electronics, and I absolutely love it. On the other hand, the Vanden Plas is classic all the way, and when I drive it, I am in love with the abundance of real wood and leather, even though beneath that, it has all the very latest technology.
I know it is OK to have your preferences, of course... but I do think you are missing out by not appreciating some of the classic designs.
With regards to Acura, I understand you distinction between appearance and build quality, because that is one area that Acura really does have a genuine discrepancy and problem. The overall look is quite good, IMO, but some of the quality of materials tends to be too cheap for the price range. That's one of the reasons that many folks who check out Acuras end up buying a Honda instead! It should be the other way around, like with Toytoa and Lexus... a person should really see and feel the true upgrade between the marques. With Acura... it's not as clear an upgrade from Honda, IMO, as it should be to warrant the price difference. If anything, it sometimes helps Honda appear to be a bargain!
TagMan
Mechanical wise, Acura needs RWD or at least SH-AWD across the lineup to further differentiate itself from the lower sibling. So yeah, I do agree that the difference between Honda and Acura is not as big as Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infiniti and Acura has a lot of room to improve.
Truly, it's got to be more than appearance... the material quality really needs to improve... and it's not just the fake wood problem that everyone focuses on. The types of plastics used, particularly on something as important and central as the dash material itself, as well as other key areas... it's these types of improvements that will certainly help to elevate the Acura interior.
I remember remarking after last year's International Auto Show that I was so surprised and impressed with the interior progress of Infiniti, particularly at their various price points. For the money, they deserve huge kudos for the interior that they supply, IMO.
TagMan
TM
I have to disagree there. The G35 in black\aluminum trim is a bit dark for me, but the car in brown\tan with the optional wood trim looks very nice. I think both versions are far better than the TL. The TL is a brain-dead mish-mash of shapes and trims, shiny metal strips here, faux-wood or faux-carbon fibre there, cheesy buttons, cheesy lighting, and without the NAV system, the upper part of the dash looks absolutely horrific.
In my opinion, with the redesign of the CTS, the TL has the worst interior in the entry-lux class, save perhaps the Lincoln MKZ and Saab 9-3. Even the ancient Volvo S60 looks better on the inside, at least it has some restraint. The TL just screams FLASH! and ZAZZ! at you, there's nothing remotely luxurious about it.
The TL to me is like a fake Rolex, with a cheesy gold finish with lots of nickel underneath to get it to look shiny. There's no "there" there, its all flash and no substance. The best cars in the entry-lux class, the 3 series and the A5, are the opposite.
I guess by now we know that you and I have completely different views toward interior designs so at least we can agree to disagree.
I was absolutely stunned by M concept's interior. Infiniti finally started using decent materials in the '02 Q45, but the design was still really terrible, with that center stack that looked like it came from a Nissan Quest. The M concept though, wow, it absolutely humiliated Lexus and Acura. The production car isn't quite as good as the concept (though the seat controls are where they should be), but its close, and I'm sure the new white gauges in the '08 are a big improvement. The EX stunned me again, and this time in a production interior. It makes the RDX look like a Kia.
If at refresh time, Infiniti gives the G gloss wood and full leather treatment as in the EX, it could move up to class leader.
Seems to work almost every time it's tried.
I agree, there are definitely some areas where it could be better. At the rate Infiniti is improving their interiors though ('06 M, -> '07 G, -> '08 EX) I think by the time the next M makes its appearance in the next decade, they could be the best in the business.
Once you start checking off the option boxes, you find yourself surrounded by African rosewood trim and upgraded leather, which makes it possible to believe the Infiniti designers have finally visited a store that sells fine leather goods. With an 11-speaker Bose audio system, a navigation system based on a 9.3GB hard drive (with enough room left over for MP3 music storage) and all the usual lights and flashes, this is the complete premium Infiniti experience, more like the now-departed Q45 luxury sedan than some kind of crossover thingy.
Source: Full Test: 2008 Infiniti EX35
At 40K large heck yeah I expect it to be a lot nicer than the $32K G35 and TL or any other cars in the $30K range.
Credit truly goes to these recent Infiniti models for their interior design and workmanship at near-bargain prices. I'm not sure who delivers a better interior when the price is brought into consideration.
TagMan
They really lose me when they add 20" chrome rims w/ spinners to these wonderful cars - actually have seen this on S-Classes and 7-Series
In Georgia? Yikes.
Sometimes no badge at all! Deliberately removed! Stealth? Another weird one.
TM
For what I understand is that those people who took off the badge prefer a cleaner look for their cars, that I can understand. Fake AMG and M? That's just totally embarrassing.
Not a fan of chrome and spinning wheels as well.
TM
TM
$300-400k over there?
Well, in that kind of place, unnecessary attention often is not good, especially from the wrong people...
Whether criminals or corrupt public officials!
An RDX with tech package starts at $37K. At that price I expect it to be a heck of a lot nice inside than a Mazda CX-7, but it isn't. Its the same with all Acuras. The MDX can approach $50K, and yet its barely any better inside than a Hyundai Veracruz, and its a good bet that the Genesis will have a nicer interior than the RL.
Putting all other things aside, the mark of a truly great interior is one that makes it seem like the car should or could cost more than it does. Examples of this are the Maserati GT and QP, Mercedes CL, Audi TT, and the Infiniti EX.
I saw an "M745i" once. Pretty amusing considering an "M7" has never existed. At least if they put Alpina badges on it, they might fool somebody.
In my opinion, with the redesign of the CTS, the TL has the worst interior in the entry-lux class, save perhaps the Lincoln MKZ and Saab 9-3. Even the ancient Volvo S60 looks better on the inside, at least it has some restraint. The TL just screams FLASH! and ZAZZ! at you, there's nothing remotely luxurious about it.
The TL to me is like a fake Rolex, with a cheesy gold finish with lots of nickel underneath to get it to look shiny. There's no "there" there, its all flash and no substance. The best cars in the entry-lux class, the 3 series and the A5, are the opposite.
I totally agree with your assessment of Acura interiors and Infiniti G interiors compared to that of the TL.
I've owned (TL) and own them both and trust me, the TL interior is cheesy more cheaply crafted and invariably develops squeaks and rattles. Just holding your arm against the inner door panel creates an indentation that will persist, and the leather seats show wear prematurely. The TL front passenger seat feels like your sitting on a commode with its non-existent support. Acura TL's ergonomics including the Nav., are very good, however. The new G35's interior is far superior in terms of comfort, feeling of solidity and materials, but in fairness, it is a newer generation car.
Louis' preference of the TL interiors shows the subjective nature of the argument but he is entitled to his opinion.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
I defintely can say I got what I paid for
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According to a report by AutoZeitung, BMW will launch 12 new models between now and 2011 starting with a new entry level minicar. The new model will be a small three-door four seater with FWD and measure just 3.8m in length. It will feature the full gamut of BMW EfficientDynamics technology including brake energy recovery and engine stop-start features. Powertrains will include both petrol and diesel motors as well as a hybrid option and possibly a plug-in hybrid model with a range of 100km. Launch date for the car is 2011.
In 2010 production of the new Mini Colorado SUV should start at a factory in Leipzig. Engines will include both petrol and diesel units with power ranging from 120 to 175hp.
Next year will see sales of the 1-series Cabrio start as well as the arrival of the next-generation 7-series. The new saloon will feature for the first time options for AWD, pneumatic air suspension and a hybrid model.
The next-generation 5-series won’t arrive until 2010 but a concept version of the car will be displayed at the Frankfurt Motor Show in 2009. Power levels will range from 170hp to 480hp. The new M5 is rumored to feature a new twin-turbo V10 with output close to 600hp.
2010 will also see the launch of the new CS-inspired flagship four-door coupe. There will only be two engine options available, a 420hp V8 and a 507hp V10 as shared with the current M5 and M6. This same year, BMW will also introduce a new X1 crossover designed to rival the upcoming Audi Q3 and VW Tiguan soft-roaders. BMW will follow this with the next-generation X3, which is set to grow in size over the current model and will be manufactured in America.
The final addition will be the production version of the Progressive Activity Sedan (PAS). BMW’s original plan was to develop a luxury minivan similar to the Mercedes R-class but product planners disbanded the idea and have instead decided to build a crossover based on the 5-series platform. It will feature coupe styling, an AWD configuration and be in showrooms by 2009.
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But the automakers continue to ask for more time to meet the higher standard than congressional Democratic leaders envision. The group includes Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai and 10 other import-brand automakers.
source Automotive News
GM has said the new rules will put some of its rear-wheel-drive performance projects on hold.
The White House and Detroit Three recently backed a proposed compromise that would call for a 32 mpg average fuel economy for light trucks and 35 mpg for car by 2022.
Source: Left-Lane News
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
Oh, it takes a lot more than glossy wood trim to make your car a class-leader... just ask BMW.
But I think the G's interior is more distinctive with the matte wood. Otherwise, it would be too similar to some last-generation Audi interior design.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
Its a subjective thing. Personally I generally prefer gloss to matte. The matte in the CLS, if its still offered, is nice, but thats a much higher quality finish than what the G and M have.
For me, I like both finishes on the wood... It depends more upon it's application and other interactive interior elements than just the finish on the wood itself.
TagMan
Upcoming Chinese and Indian cars will have to be priced very cheap to get any attention, IMO.
TagMan