Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

oldshoe · July 2003

Somebody explain to me exactly what a side curtain airbag protects against AND is it really worth it if you are carrying small children...the thought process here is that with small children in child car seats they are not tall enough to be at risk with making head contact with the upper part of the doors are they ???

Another question...we have two small children...are they going to be safer in a Volkswagen Passat because of the side curtain air bags or the Subaru Forester because it rides higher and has the safe side impact reviews (Passat has not been ranked yet I think from IIHS) ....any thoughts or opinons would be helpful as my wife is trying to decide between these two vehicles... I actually have a 03 Forester that I got last week and she loves it and is considering buying one as well, but she also loved driving the Passat...just trying to get the safest car for the kiddies..

JO

tidester · July 2003

This article might help.

tidester, host

ateixeira · July 2003

IMO, no. Side curtain air bags are designed to protect those tall enough that their heads would be hitting the glass.

Maybe a very tall 8 year old in a booster seat is a different story. But infants, toddlers, and small kids aren't tall enough to benefit. A well secured seat should not allow that much side-to-side travel.

What you really don't want is a situation where anyone is resting their head up against the door or windows, maybe sleeping, and then have the bag deploy.

Any how, the Forester aces all the crash tests out there, NCAP, IIHS offest, IIHS side impact, etc. Note that the front passenger was very well protected and that the structure earned the best possible score in that side impact test. The rear passenger (a 12 year old "dummy") was protected by the C-pillar IIRC, so no heads hit any glass.

Print this page out for your wife, then rest easy:

http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_smsu- v_overall.htm

-juice

p0926 · July 2003

Oh boy- In a moment of weakness, I stopped by the local Subaru dealer this weekend to finally look over an XT (I went on Sunday so I wouldn't have to deal with the sales staff). There was a shiny black 5-speed XT on the lot that was just calling my name. Even worse, it was inexplicably left unlocked so I got to examine it inside and out. Oh the temptation! Thank goodness it wasn't possible to take a test drive or I would probably have been a goner :-) Anyway, I was quite pleased with all the improvements (over my 01). However, as someone previously mentioned, the silver aluminum roof rack rails look odd with the body-colored end caps. Also, I actually prefer the two-tone look of the black XS over the monochrome XT.

-Frank P.

ateixeira · July 2003

The black matches well with the gray, for sure. Some colors work out better that way.

OCD member are no longer allowed to buy black cars. ;-)

-juice

kens · July 2003

Frank,

I think I mentioned the mismatch of the rails to the end caps. It works very well with the silver color, though.

Ken

ateixeira · July 2003

Yep, the silver blends in. The red in particular stands out like a sore thumb (though I like the color).

I read somewhere that the roof rack capacity was now 200 lbs, is that right? Can someone check? It used to be 150 lbs, already better than average.

-juice

p0926 · July 2003

I've gotta find a silver XT and see what I think. I was already waffling between black and silver as my two choices with my heart wanting black but my OCD brain recognizing the advantages of silver. Speaking of the silver, is it just me or does anyone else think that Subaru's choice isn't the best "shade"?

-Frank P.

rsholland · July 2003

as far as I know.

Bob

ateixeira · July 2003

One review mentioned 200 lbs, Bob, maybe they were just wrong.

Frank: the silver is OK, not the best shade, not the worst. Mercedes has a nice Silver.

I prefer Wintergreen, as far as the easy-to-maintain colors go. The new SeaMist Green is more golden, I prefer Wintergreen.

But I *love* the light blue metallic that the new Legacys offer, I really hope those come here.

-juice

ballistic · July 2003

Frank says, "Speaking of the silver, is it just me or does anyone else think that Subaru's choice isn't the best "shade"?

I have no quarrel at all with the shade of my silver XT, but it was my first choice from the get-go.

I have to admit, though, when I see a really good medium-grey or even dark-grey metallic (such as on Audi and Passat) I think, 'wow - that would look terrific on an XT'. It seems a bit constraining that Subaru sells this car in only 5 colors.

By the way, the aluminum roof rails blend almost perfectly with the painted-silver end caps. From some angles and in some lighting, you can't see any difference - unlike any of the other available colors. With the crossbars removed (when not needed), it gives a really clean look. Especially without the pointless, expensive rear spoiler that I made certain to omit from mine before the holes were drilled.

jb

corkfish · July 2003

"Oh boy- In a moment of weakness, I stopped by the local Subaru dealer this weekend to finally look over an XT (I went on Sunday so I wouldn't have to deal with the sales staff)."

Same thing here. I was mildly intrigued with it until I took a test drive. Once that happened it was too late. It reminded me a lot of the old Buick Gran National and I bought one without evening quibbling over the price that much.

kens · July 2003

A dark-metallic grey has been one color Subaru has not offered in it's USDM models as far as I can recall.

Too bad, it would look good on almost any model Subaru.

Ken

ballistic · July 2003

Ken,

Can't you just picture a next-gen Legacy in deep metallic grey? <swoon>

jb

lakepop · July 2003

I'm with juice......I'm hoping for the "new" Legacy in light blue metallic.........looks really sweet in the pics I've seen.

joseph50 · July 2003

Because I lock my key in the car on average once a year, I always wedged a key in keycase in a reachable place up under the chassis. (I don't trust the magnets on the back of those hardware store key safes.) To my surprise and frustration, I found no convenient jamming place under my '01 S. Then I happened upon the perfect place: For right handers, push forward the flexible left rear mud guard creating a space between the guard and the cladding. Insert key safe to a depth of a half an index finger. Let go of guard so it can snap back into place.
Two years, twice used, the key is still secure in its place.
(Now that you have read this, you have to print this post and swallow it to preserve secrecy.)

rsholland · July 2003

Well, the '04 Baja at least gets a medium-dark gray color choice with the silver cladding. They had just such a vehicle at the NY auto show in March. It looked very good, BTW.

Bob

ducktapeguy · July 2003

Joseph50,
What is your licencse plate number again?

I have one of those magnetic key things too, I don't trust the magnet either, but I've never heard of one falling off. But I won't post where I placed mine :P

joseph50 · July 2003

I drove an '87 Cavalier for 8 years, rather liking the fact that it was dead last in the annual ranking of car makes stolen.
I never thought to check where the Forester ranks. I suspect it is a relative "nondesirable" among thieves.
(On the other hand, for those of you who lust for the turbo, I would suspect one of those outer space tracking security systems should be added to your cost figuring...)

ateixeira · July 2003

Bob's right, and it's the nicest color I've seen on a Baja.

I don't think Foresters get stolen often. The XT might, for its engine. That'll fit in any Subie engine bay, basically.

-juice

rsholland · July 2003

College educator speaking here. Take notes, you will be tested...

The main reason people respond favorably to the silver-on-silver; black-on-silver; and now, the new gray-on-silver, and blue-on-blue Bajas; is that those colors are all part of the same color palate, the colors are 'related' to one another, and therefore there is less of a difference between them, and in two cases, no difference. All these colors are basically 'cool' colors, and are linked by having the same basic hue.

That's not true with the red-on-silver, or the yellow-on-silver Bajas. Both the red and yellow are no way related to one another. Both yellow and red are 'warm' colors, and the silver is a 'cool' color. This results in a more 'radical' color change, and for many, more disruptive to their color sensibilities.

This is not to say that the red/silver or yellow/silver colors are bad. It's just to say that people (in general) have trouble with change, and the more radical the change, the more resistance to it.

Silver/silver & blue/blue = most liked color choices

Black/silver & gray/silver = generally well liked, but not as universally well liked as the monotone colors.

*Yellow/silver & red/silver = least liked color choices

* = Of these two, there is more resistance to the yellow/silver than the red/silver because other issues also come into play. Yellow is more radical and suggests youth, whereas the dark red is more conservative and suggests maturity. So depending on where you stand on those issues, that will also influence your tastes.

Bob

maverick1017 · July 2003

You sound just like my old art history professor

I "slept" through most of his lectures on how color affect people, but some how I find your explanations more interesting than his, I wonder why??

Mike

rsholland · July 2003

Mistake-
That's not true with the red-on-silver, or the yellow-on-silver Bajas. Both the red and yellow are no way related to one another.

Correct-
That's not true with the red-on-silver, or the yellow-on-silver Bajas. Both the red and yellow are no way related to the silver.

Bob

ateixeira · July 2003

Also, Baja came in catalog colors, i.e. colors that scream for attention. But then buyers come in and buy a different color. So Subaru should only have made a few of them for display.

Remember the Neon at its launch? They had a bright Neon green color. Dodge probably made a few dozen of them, and they ended up in dealership displays. Few customers actually wanted lime green cars.

$26,500 estimated prices will kill the Baja turbo, and therefore kill the Baja all together. I hope that the Car Connection is wrong. It should be cheaper than the XT.

-juice

rsholland · July 2003

if you're a 40-year old homeowner, with a family, and all you see are yellow (youth-oriented) Bajas, that SOA was hawking when it first debuted... Duh...

Have you noticed how all the recent Baja ads now feature the monotone silver Bajas?

Hmmm... maybe we should move this discussion over to the Baja thread...

Bob

joseph50 · July 2003

"Young" vs. "mature" colors aside, this 50-years-plus guy wouldn't mind seeing more people rolling in yellow cars because, well, they are so easy to see. The least "visible" color, according insurance industry studies? The ever popular silver.

p0926 · July 2003

"The least "visible" color, according insurance industry studies? The ever popular silver."

I'd generally agree with that. Th exception being that dark vehicles driving at dawn/dusk without their lights on are next to invisible.

-Frank P.

rsholland · July 2003

vs. what they need are often at polar extremes. Witness the SUV popularity. I'm a firm believer in that the customer is always wrong, at least 50% of the time.

Bob

ateixeira · July 2003

LOL! Too often true!

-juice

ballistic · July 2003

joseph50 says, "The least "visible" color, according insurance industry studies? The ever popular silver."

I'm guessing you're talking about daytime visibility. At night, silver (or any other 'light' color) is *far* more visibile than black, deep blue, deep green, and so forth. Those colors are practically invisible at night. If I have to choose between a high-visibility daytime color and a high-visibility nighttime color, I'll choose the latter every time.

jb

joseph50 · July 2003

"I'm guessing you're talking about daytime visibility."

You are correct.
If I recall, the color studies were conducted in response to concern over the vast number of (daytime) accidents that occur as a result of drivers swerving in front of a passing vehicle or pulling out in front of an approaching one in a cross street. ("Hey, I just didn't see him.")
Bright red followed by white are next in rank of daytime visibility.
Would that more drivers use running lights during dawn and dusk, no matter what color car they drive.

ateixeira · July 2003

With any Subie, just leave the lights on all the time. That turns on the taillights, too, so you're safer from being rear-ended in fog or heavy rain, or at dusk. They're auto-off, so you're good to go.

DRLs are only a half-way solution.

-juice

p0926 · July 2003

Yep, I always leave my headlights on. The auto-off is a great feature. Too bad other manufacturers haven't caught on to that fact yet.

-Frank P.

hypov · July 2003

In pouring rain or fog, in both day and night, you're virtually invisible.

-Dave

ballistic · July 2003

How many people actually select the color of their cars primarily to maximize visibility for accident avoidance? This has never been a color-choice priority for me, and I doubt it ever will.

jb

earthwoman · July 2003

Joseph50: I had a magnetic hide a key holder fall off a few years ago, never used one again, and it was in a place that should have been safe from being knocked off while driving.

"the dark red is more conservative and suggests maturity" - rsholland

So does that mean I am conservative and mature? LOL ;-) That probably describes me pretty well. I have a cayenne red MY03 Forester X. The unpainted cladding (which I love the look and utility of) looks great with the red. I think the Red/Dark Grey trim go well together and I have removed as much silver/chrome emblems from the car as I can. I get compliments constantly about the color of my car. I am considering buying the StonGard for the painted areas around the headlights though. My old MY91 Legacy had painted bumpers and they were badly scratched after 10 years of ownership.

BTW, thanks to everyone that posts their experiences here. I thoroughly enjoy reading them.

stever · July 2003

My hide a keys things seem to stay in place pretty good, although I do have a string acting as backup on the one on the van. They seem to do better for me resting on a flat surface facing up like the inside of a bumper or the flange of a gas tank - I guess if they do bounce around, they tend to land back on the metal.

I put the key in piece of foam with a little grease or petroleum jelly in there to keep the rust down too.

Steve, Host

kens · July 2003

I can't think of anyone I know who has picked a color based on accident avoidance either. However, I do know that my next color will be based on dirt avoidance (no more black!).

One feature I wish Subaru would offer in our vehicles here are rear fogs. I would certainly like one for driving in Bay Area fog and rainy weather at night.

Another alternative to the hideaway key is to get one of those plastic temporaries that can fit in your wallet or purse.

Ken

lark6 · July 2003

I second the request for rear fogs - not just for our cars but for everyone else's. I live in a river valley (Delaware) and it can stay foggy well into the day while areas just a couple of miles to the east and west are clear. I had a nasty 4-hour round trip commute up to the NY/NJ border week before last where visibility was very poor and traffic was stacked like cordwood.

This would also help the situation where people drive around with their DRLs on but no lighting in the rear, assuming that everyone can see them. (See others' recent rants in Legacy/Outback forum.)

Ed

c_hunter · July 2003

chaynes1 wrote "Throttle tip-in not linear (Dealer tells me that the control module can be adjusted)"

Charles, or anyone else, can you give me any more details about this? One thing that bugs me about our 03 XS is that the throttle tips in very abruptly. It's hard to get a graceful start sometimes. It would be great if there were a quick fix for this, and even better if I could do it myself....

Craig

erictooley · July 2003

Howdy folks.

After weeks of shopping and test-driving, we just purchased an '03 Forester XS. One of our objectives was to replace our Civic with a quieter and more utilitarian vehicle. While the Forester is much quieter than the Tribute we test-drove, there's certainly room for improvement (my partner is hard of hearing, so soundproofing is important to us). Other posters on this board have wished for more sound insulation as well.

With that in mind, I'm about to undertake a soundproofing project, and will be posting updates to this board (although I may maintain a separate web page with details and pictures -- any free hosting suggestions?). I've chosen QuietCoat (www.quietcoat.com), and plan to begin this weekend by coating the cargo area floor, door skins, and hood. I may also lift out the rear seat and coat the exposed metal surface below -- it looks easy enough to remove. I'll try to get ahold of an SPL meter so I can provide before-and-after statistics. My project's total budget is $300 and a full day's work. Wish me luck!

p0926 · July 2003

Eric- Impressive. Please keep us posted on your progress and results.

-Frank P.

tidester · July 2003

You may want to browse through the archived discussion on Soundproofing for some interesting leads and ideas.

tidester, host

c_hunter · July 2003

Eric, let me give you some advice from an acoustics guy -- try to identify the sources of noise before taking a comprehensive soundproofing approach. You could save a lot of time and money, not to mention avoiding a potentially useless exercise that requires tearing apart a new car.

As an example, let me cite the aerodynamic component noise coming from the mirror / door gasket area. Other noise reduction work could potentially be undetected in comparison. The way sound adds up, you really need to go after the loudest sources to have an impact. Reducing noise from other quieter sources will not have a noticeable effect.

So, all I'm saying is make sure you have a clear strategy in mind before you embark on this.

good luck!
Craig

ateixeira · July 2003

I also find throttle tip-in more aggressive on newer Subies. My '98 is much smoother than our '02.

Eric: Congrats and welcome.

Cool project. Keep us posted?

For starters Forester is about as quiet as a sport/cute in this price class gets. But it would be interesting to see how much improvement you get.

-juice

erictooley · July 2003

Craig,

Thanks for the gasket tip. The wind noise of the Forester isn't objectionable to me, although I'll probably remove the roof rack cross rails, which can cause buffeting and the occasional whine. My top priority is to address road noise, which rises markedly on some surfaces (especially on a rough freeway). I plan to use my SPL meter to identify noise "leaks" in the interior. Since I'm upgrading the stock speakers in the doors (which require the removal of the door panels), I might as well add some insulation while I'm in there.

Anyone replace the stock Geolanders with another tire that seems quieter?

paisan · July 2003

I'm gonna have to go against you guys on that one. Everytime I see a Jag/Saab/Volvo that has a rear fog, the owner is a complete IDIOT and leaves it on all the time, which in turn makes it VERY annoying for people who are following. Generally I'll combat the rear fogs with my twin hella 4000 130W Flame Thrower Lights. Now I have rear facing 55w Halogens for loading the boat, so that will be my future reply to improperly used rear fogs.

-mike

ateixeira · July 2003

With the caveat that they're not good in snow, a good quiet tire is my Nitto NT460. They also last forever, I've put 25k miles on them and they have a long ways to go.

-juice

kens · July 2003

I think the throttle tip-in on auto Foresters became quite touchy since the Phase II engine came in play in MY99. I'm not sure if it's the engine itself or a non-linear throttle cable.

Rear fogs -- yes, that can be annoying on a clear night. But I'd still want them on my vehicle.

Ken

lark6 · July 2003

paisan: Following someone who's left their rear fogs on is no different than being approached by someone who's left their front fogs on; the light is just coming from different ends of the vehicle. The latter is much more common; people use their fogs as auxiliary driving lights when skies are clear as well as in the rain. Many Subaru owners are guilty of this as well.

Fogs, front or rear, are a great feature on a car when used properly. Just because you have the feature doesn't mean you should use it all the time. If drivers used them responsibly the problem wouldn't exist - but how to enforce their use? As part of the licensing process? Or as a ticketable offense by state and local police? The latter would cause great ire as many people, rightly or wrongly, would see that as an attempt by those jurisdictions to increase their revenue. In this era where Federal funding to states is being slashed and states are being forced to either kill programs and services or find new ways to pay for them, it's a legit concern. And yet somehow states find ways to subsidize sports stadiums for private franchise owners; there are two in my metro area going up as I write.

I'd better stop before I go off further on a political tangent. Again, rear fogs are a good idea where it's frequently foggy, but they must be used properly.

Ed

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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