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2008 Cadillac CTS

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I think you misunderstood what I meant. I e-mailed Cadillac, on be-half of the edmund.com's 2008' Cadillac CTS forum requesting Magneride be available as a option ;) Kirstie, most of us are magneride (Magnetic Ride Control) fans ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    It's amazing how such a expensive BMW, can be so cheap. :surprise:

    It will be interesting to see how expensive those new M3's will be ? ;) I'd be willing to bet once the new M3 comes out it will have the highest residual on the market ! ;)

    Rocky
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I think the highest residual will be the new Mini. Nice car, actually.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Really ? That is almost hard to believe. ;)

    Rocky
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    http://www.gminsidenews.com
    is the main site.
    http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45902
    is the thread that mentions Mulberry leather upholstery.
    There are a lot of amateur and pro. photos of the CTS on other threads.
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    "I can't remember the last time I had a car that had an MSRP of less than $50K"
    How very nice to know. And how big is your thang?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    That Opel GT looks very cool ral1960. I really appreciate you giving us those links pal. I also really appreciate the inside news on the 2008' Caddy CTS "gadgets" and "stuff" ;) Wow, it's dressed to impress. :shades:
    Hey pal do you know if this new 08' CTS has "voice recognition" capability's ? Ya know via a push of a button and say/speak
    "CD play disc 4 track 8" or "find nearest ATM" "display gas stations" or "find nearest mexican resturant" :blush:

    ATTENTION:

    Hey "readreader" where r u pal ? I miss ya and hope if you see this message you will let us know u r okay pal. I miss your pics and analysis :)

    Thanks,

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I've done a little research today on how cheap BMW leases are and it's either the state of Texas, with their
    "balloon only leases" or somebody is feeding you full of B.S. because my numbers aren't adding up on the payment calculator :confuse:

    I priced up a $45K BMW 335i and with $2500 down, 36 months, 15K a year I was looking at $842 a month :surprise:

    Maybe you can explain ?????

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    ROTFLMAO !!!! :D

    Rocky
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    His balloon needed pricking. And maybe the reverse is true, also.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    ROTF !!!!! I thought about his BMW's being so cheap to lease all weekend at the Lake and decided to take some time this Sunday evening to see how true that is. What I found is unless you get a special lease offer on a particular model which is usually a base model you will pay a lot more for a monthly lease than what he claims unless I missing something and the payment calculator on the BMW site is wrong ???? Hell If I could lease a BMW M3 for regular CTS money it would be worth looking at for me as a option. ;)

    Rocky
  • jpennjpenn Member Posts: 68
    While I think the Opel GTC concept is an attractive car I'd hate to see it manifest itself as the new CTS coupe. does anyone have information regarding this. I saw in the press release that it may become the new Saturn coupe in the States.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I went to the BMW dealer. I sat across from a sales rep. I asked about two BMW's. The price of both of them was north of $46,000 (which is where I think the CTS will be.)

    I went to an Acura dealer. Same routine, this time, I asked about the price for an MDX w/sport package.

    Actually, repeated the exercise with a Volvo V8 XC90

    My criteria:

    36/45K (and if no maint, tell me the cost of main for required items for 45K)

    Assume: first mo payment.
    Assume: Ohio sales tax paid in one lump
    Assume: 50 50 chance of sec dep (and please tell me)

    I had checked the on line calculations, but as I have come to learn, the on line calcs are pretty much all over the board as far as reality goes. A reason seems to be the cap costs -- and my criteria says "no cap cost -- unless provided in the form of off MSRP."

    I am looking to break the $50K barrier and still get an ELLPS or LPS with AWD and what is generally termed "technology" package.

    As of March -- either a BMW X3 or 335xi can be had, thusly equipped, etc, for numbers UNDER $640. Apparently, so can a $54K Volvo XC90, but I am somewhat suspect of this number because the person who did the calculations would not meet with me personally, there was a runner in between who kept going between us -- and the numbers, at first, kept coming back at 72 months for a buy, not 36 months for a lease.

    In any case, using the BMW store's numbers, compared to the Acura store's, etc, the BMW had a residual as high as 64% and as low as 61%. The Volvo was 47%, the Acura was kept secret.

    A $48K BMW compared to a $45,995 Acura, for instance, was over $200 less per month, same deal and the BMW did come with full maintenance which, over 45K miles is probably, worth at least $500 (more if I had to buy the $80 wiper blades that we seem to go through every 6 months, I'd imagine.)

    Full disclosure -- the current car's lease is up in about ~ 12 months. We will be placing an order in ~9 months, for a new car -- we told every dealership this. We told them this is how we shop and that we would be expecting a 2008 and that any price they gave us today would only be to place the cars in some sort of "current perspective."

    That is, we all know the Fed could lower interest rates, which may lower money factors on leases. Residual calculations may warrant improvements (or not) in residuals and the overall state of the world may dictate off MSRP discounts (or not) that we don't know about now.

    The cars in question are from about $46K to $54K.

    I would never expect certain cars to be "pushed" -- the Audi S4, the BMW M3, perhaps a CTS-V fits in there too.

    We (my wife and I) were looking at more "mundane" (if somehting that costs $50K can be called mundane) cars. We are both tired of being told "nicely equipped" for $39K.

    The new CTS is appealing on so many fronts, but then again, the STS was too -- and I couldn't make it work. If BMW subvents its cars, it must do so because they can afford to do so based either on their cost of money (which I doubt would be seriously different than the other guys) or their willingness to claim and live by higher residuals. Subvented or not, TODAY, there are $46K cars that lease at a number beginning with an "8" and $48K cars that do the same thing with numbers beginning with a "6" and then they include maintenance.

    It is true the MSRP of so many of our cars over the years has been over $50K, but even at $53,286, my Audi is $640 and change per month for a 36/45K lease. That was 2005, it may not be repeated, I know this.

    The Cadillac appeals because it is an American car. Further, it appeals for its size and apparent content. Many here seem to believe it will NOT tickle the underbelly of $50K -- even though the STS experience would seem to contradict this.

    But I am not speaking of a base car, rather of the AWD version with "all" the technology -- I do not dispute that the CTS RWD with perhaps one "premium" option may well remain below $40K.

    Most folks, when confronted with, for instance, a $46K car from company "A" that leases for mid "$8's" and also having a $48K car from company "B" that leases for low to mid "$6's" will consider the car from "B" if they are in any way comparable modes of transportation and creature comfort.

    I do not have a BMW, I have never personally owned one. My wife has had two (1988 and 2005.) They SEEM to be so much lower in price than so many other cars out there when one considers leasing. They (on the LPS board) are the number one or number two selling car month after month, due I assume, in no small measure to their lease prices (and over 75% of them are leased, according to my BMW dealer.)

    I priced using the Internet and Cincinnati area dealerships.

    The new CTS, I would imagine, will not have any programs initially. The current Cadillacs (but NOT ALL of them) have some handsome incentives -- if this keeps us, the new CTS when it is no longer BRAND NEW and in the spotlight, may well be both the car and the bargain I'm hoping it will be.

    :surprise:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well the Bimmer's lease calculator with $2,500 down was $842 a month 36/45K for $45K. I don't know how you are getting these $400-600 a month lease prices unless you are buying cars with special lease programs ? :confuse:

    Rocky
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    You sat across from a sales rep in an authorized BMW dealer and discussed an X3 and a 3 series? (I had previously mentioned I had discussed the X3 and I had previously mentioned that cars like the Audi S4 and BMW hot rods are rarely if ever subject to "subventing.")

    "I went to the BMW dealer. I sat across from a sales rep. I asked about two BMW's. The price of both of them was north of $46,000 (which is where I think the CTS will be.)"

    I called my BMW rep and these numbers, reported earlier, by me, still hold. The web configurators are, at best, approximations -- but they should be consulted, for they do represent a starting point.

    One thing, the $2,500 cap cost that is on the web, is required -- but not from the customer. The dealer, should he/she be so inclined is very able to provide this reduction (as did ours.)
  • socalbmmrsocalbmmr Member Posts: 12
    Thanks for those links!!

    I think in order to compete (and stand out) in this segment, the CTS will have to offer some compelling color options/combos above and beyond the standard fare. Audi has done well with the taxi-cab yellow S4's, both standard 3's and M3's have interesting interior colors (cinnamon, terra brown, etc etc) that really pop....

    Price of entry I think in this segment...
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    I'm encouraged that GM is putting more multi-color interiors in cars like the 08 Malibu and Enclave. I've resolved that after all-gray interiors since 1984, my next car will not be neutral or monochromatic inside.

    Someone several pages ago said he'd heard from his local dealer that a cloth interior would be standard on the base model CTS. I took that to the cadillacowners.com forum and got chewed out by a snotty 4th gen. Cadillac dealer from L.A. Of course, he'd never experienced humidity like we have in NC, so he had no idea why anyone wouldn't want leather in a luxury car.

    Speaking of pig-headed posters, I realized many of the threads at GMI (as gminsidenews is known) degenerate into the same arguments and opinions over and over again. Still, most GM developments show up there, so it's worth visiting, if only to get a link to a news article at another site.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well I doubt the calculator is $200-300 off per month. I will call on a BMW 335i sedan lease maybe tommorow just to see. ;)

    Rocky
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I'll redo, too!

    335xi with sat nav, premium and a couple other things.

    X3 ditto.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Mark, I got busy today buying a used family car. Perhaps I can give it a try in the next few days. :)

    Rocky
  • socalbmmrsocalbmmr Member Posts: 12
    The lease calculator on bmwusa.com is not accurate. Currently, BMW is offering leases for 3-series with the following deal: 3 yrs/36,000 mi, 60% residual value and about .00125 money factor. Plug those in and you should get a payment around 575- 650 depending on sticker price.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I thought that is what I said, but not in so many words.

    Thanks.

    Unless the CTS is less expensive than a 5 series, I think it will face an uphill battle.

    That is, of course, if the CTS is as popular to lease as Bimmers seem to be.

    For, who would pay more per month for a $40K CTS than a $50K BMW?

    I don't know how and I almost don't care -- but when my company, those many moons ago, offered a car allowance (for a lease), I literally looked first at a Chrysler product.

    My then boss, himself owning an Audi Silver Fox, a BMW Bavaria and a Porsche 944, showed me an article about a new car, called an Audi 5000 (the 100LS was pretty much considered a losing proposition at the time).

    He showed me that I could lease a new 1978 Audi 5000 for less money than a Dodge Charger or a Cordoba or even an Olds Toronado, even though they had lower MSRP's.

    I went for the Audi 5000.

    Cadillac's new CTS is a very compelling package (on cyber paper) -- I hope they "lease them" to move them (taking a page from BMW.)
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The normal CTS(V aside - it's more like a M5 if anything) will come in at about $35, or about 40K equipped comparably to the 5 series. BMW is like Mercedes in this way - overpriced and you pay for the badge.

    And a lot of people are spending their money elsewhere. Accura, Infinity, Lexus, Cadillac - they all make compelling 5 series choices for often less money or with better reliability(often both).
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Although my wife has owned 2 BMW's, I have not ever owned one. My impression is that the least lease cost animal in the ELLPS and LPS kingdom is and has been the BMW.

    If the anecdotal evidence is true, the majority of these cars are leased. Likewise it appears that 75% of BMW's are leased and they have, typically, zero costs other than gas, insurance & plates for 50K miles.

    The subventing or the residuals alone makes a BMW's 3 year cash out of pocket often the lowest of most and sometimes all of its "league" (ellps or lps.)

    It seems that the BMW, if it is "overpriced and you pay for the badge" suggests that the cars it competes with are even more so.

    I am in the 75% (and growing) who long-term rent my cars. I am enthusiastically in favor of returning to an American car. The CTS fits my age, lifestyle, income etc, well (at least the written word and 2d pictures of it seem to.)

    Yet, if I configure a new CTS, a new A6 and a new 5 series, as I would like them (AWD, technology packages, upgraded suspension, wheels and tires, etc.), I will look at the monthly payment for 27 - 39 months, the out of pocket maintenance costs and the cost to feed and insure it.

    I will do the same for the other vehicles that at that time are in the market in in my sweet spot.

    Apparently that puts me in with about 75% of the car consumers in the classes noted.

    Historically, the BMW stands an excellent chance of being the lowest TCO under these conditions.

    The BMW badge seems to all but guarantee a high residual, hence paying for the badge takes on the meaning that it is a "discount coupon."

    Long timers here know I have been a screaming voice in the wilderness for Audi -- practically shilling for them (but not really.)

    I am not "pro BMW," I am in favor of the best (at a price point) value, performance, safety, content, etc I can get. I am rooting for GM and the CTS -- but "IF" a 5 series BMW and a CTS are leased at a similar TCO for the term noted above, I believe most consumers would opt for the BMW.

    Ditto if BMW and Audi are switched and ditto again if the same can be said about Mercedes. For others it would be the same thing for an Infiniti or a Lexus.

    Cadillac has apparently moved the CTS up, substantially. In the marketplace that is here now, however, it sometimes seems MSRP is only slightly relevant -- people (about 75% of them) want to know the amount of the monthly check they will have to write for the next 3 years, period.

    For this 75% of us, I suspect paying for the badge, if indeed that is what it is, is a good thing, because it has tended to slash the price of "ownership."

    Cadillac, without some similar programs, may find itself having a car that everyone wants but few are willing to pay for considering the scenario I have laid out.

    I am not shilling for BMW or Mercedes, at least I don't mean to be. I am looking at this from a marketing perspective given the current realities. If "we" think BMWs are overpriced, it can only be because we have stopped looking once we see the sticker price.

    These days, apparently, the sticker price is not what people are using to evaluate their acquisitions.

    For $600 and change per month, for a CTS or one of the overpriced cars, I would certainly suspect many if not most would opt not for the Cadillac.

    Often wrong and never uncertain, I remain. :confuse:
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
  • allargonallargon Member Posts: 75
    Leasing in TX doesn't make much sense to me unless one is writing it off as a business expense. Other states are much more pose..leasee friendly.

    Apparently, BMW subsidizes more than GM or Ford. I even posted a link.

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_49/c4012012.htm

    For those of us that purchase to own, I don't see a Bimmer being cheaper than a Caddy or an Infiniti.

    Back to the Caddy... when's the Bluetooth one coming out again? :blush:
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The car that has the least lease cost is often the car that is the least cost to own for the same reason: residual.

    It is true that a sub-vented lease may offer artificially high or low numbers to entice a customer into buying.

    Yet, no company is so big that it can lose money or every deal and "make it up in volume."

    If -- and this is unknown TODAY -- a $45K car is more expensive to lease for X time, than a $50K car, it is likely the $45K car will be more expensive to buy and own, unless the car is kept until it is fully depreciated. Of course what happens is that the car with the higher residual retains its value longer than the other one.

    The difference may prove immaterial to you but in terms of an asset on a balance sheet, it is possible (and sometimes probable) that the car with the high residual may actually cost less than the one with the lower residual.

    Most folks will NOT pay $650 per month for a $45K car if there is a $50K car offered for the same money, especially if the latter comes complete with full, free, maintenance for 4 years or 50K miles.

    A $45K Acura at ~$865/mo when a $48K Bimmer is ~$650 is not a compelling position for the Acura sales person to be in (when he reveals the Acura's residual is but 47% when the Bimmers is 61%.)

    Cadillac, I am certain, will rise to this issue with the new CTS -- once the initial buzz subsides. Remember when the 300 came out? Local Chrysler dealers were charging over sticker and even had the gall to put a line item on the new sticker called "ADP." Additional Dealer Profit.

    Now the lease programs on the 2007 300's are really attractive.

    My assumption, and that is all that it is, is that the CTS (since the majority of the customers who drive them rent them) will be subvented either by discounts, artificially low money factors (including 0%) and/or high residuals.

    In the past Cadillac supported low lease payments with high residuals, somewhat to their dismay, since it made the leases almost impossible to terminate early.

    One of my co workers had a 2004 Cadillac and GM sent her a get outta jail (up to 5 months) coupon -- which she promptly applied to a 2007 CTS (on a 39 month lease/ 18K miles for a low number beginning with a $4!)

    Sometimes, if there are any business deductions especially, a lease is not imprudent.

    Sometimes it is. :shades:
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    Mark, I think you are spot on re leasing/residuals. I am intrigued by the upcoming CTS - no doubt it will be a fine car - however, in looking at a variety of numbers on the cars I like (i.e. style, performance, cost of ownership, residual value, etc), it will take a lot to pry me away from BMW.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I'm also "rooting" for an American ellps or lps that makes a compelling counterpoint (in all areas) to Audi, BMW, Lexus, etc.

    To do this, the product has to be "great," and the "deal" also has to be darn near magnetic.

    GM can make this happen -- possibly with this car.

    Can't wait.
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    in a press release about the 08 STS. Link posted in the 08 STS thread.
  • piasonpiason Member Posts: 55
    This is a CTS forum :surprise:
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    Yes, I know that....and if you knew anything about the 08 CTS, you would know that it is supposed to get the new direct injection 3.6L V6. Well, it is apparently also going into the STS (which was not generally known earlier), so if any CTS fans want to read some things about this engine they can find the link on the STS board.
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    Only 298 hp? Let the whining begin!

    I suppose they'll force you to get the stiffer suspension and teeth-rattling lower profile tires to get the DI engine.

    The thing I hate most about my Intrigue is the harsh ride over even small bumps and road undulations.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Dang. An Intrigue is harsh? I just about fell asleep in the last one I drove. Compared to that, yeah - the CTS is going to feel like a cart with wooden wheels. :P
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    I believe they softened the ride on later Intrigues.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Here is what may happen, what may HAVE happened, etc, with respect to what is sometimes described as harsh or rough rides.

    In the "old days" cars were often offered with sport or "performance" suspensions. Remember the Impala, then the Impala SS was offered, then the Caprice, etc etc?

    The SS was, from at least the suspension point of view, only different from the base Impala by virtue of stiffer coil springs and "heavy duty" hydraulic shocks. Perhaps there were "anti-roll bars" perhaps they were larger than the ones on the standard Impala, perhaps there was a front or a rear anti-sway bar, perhaps even one at both ends.

    These Super Sport versions rode much more harshly than the standard versions, and, frankly, they didn't handle THAT much better.

    Ever stiffer springs, struts, shocks, whatever did not impart much of anything "super" to these cars because the cars were NOT very stiff.

    Over the years the cars have become stiffer and stiffer and stiffer and the ride has actually improved -- as has the handling.

    Couple today's super stiff chassis with some modern design springs, struts, bushings, shocks (or whatever) and active and passive roll bars, air suspension bits, semi-active dual diagonal hydraulic anti-roll bars, Magna ride, bigger wheels, bigger tires, term insurance for your wife, and so on and we have reached something of a point in time where we can buy cars that can have both compliant rides AND performance capabilities at the same time.

    I am not assuming anything about anyone's personal seat of their pants impressions. But, I have noticed some people who have driven "loose" NOT STIFF, that is, chassis based cars for years believe stiff chassis cars "ride rough." Only after driving both and back to back time and again do some folks actually start to seek ever stiffer chassis cars.

    The stiffer the better for RIDE and HANDLING. We can only hope Cadillac has made the new CTS Über stiff.

    The Intrigues, perhaps were softened, but I would assume the softening was NOT due to chassis stiffness -- but, if it was a result of stiffening the chassis, one could assume later Intrigues handled better.
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    Stiffening the chassis, by itself, wouldn't make the ride smoother, but it would allow them to use softer springs or bushings without the handling getting sloppier.

    My old 74 Fleetwood had flexibility designed in to help absorb bumps, which it did quite well. High speed handling was another matter, but it was fine for everyday driving and always felt stable (except on ice & snow).

    Rumor has it the STS will be discontinued after 2009, but I hope they won't wait that long to put Magna Ride on the CTS. I would consider paying $1500 extra to have good handling and a smooth, stable ride, but due to middle age, I would rather have a smooth ride and adequate handling, if I have to chose. That's why Buicks are softly sprung, and the young folks complain. Just wait a few years.

    I wouldn't have bought the Intrigue if I'd test-driven it on the bumpy roads I use everyday, a mistake I won't make again. I looked at the Regal, but there was no comfortable place for my left foot.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    "The G8 GXP/GTX based off the Holden Commodore HSV will have Delphi's Magneride system and it's adjustable FYI.” – rocky

    MagneRide is not mentioned in anything I have seen from GM:

    Some production ( as well as show car ) details on the V6 and V8 versions here:

    http://media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/events/autoshows/07chicago/brands/pontiac/inde- x.html

    What is your source for this info?

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Supposing that if the V8 is called a GT ( seems likely ), and given the current model designations Pontiac seems to have ‘standardized on’, that would appear to offer 2 higher equipment levels – a GTP and GXP. This seems to present the opportunity for Pontiac to bring the equipment & interior refinement ( ? ) level up. And add more Luxury features. Twice. In the future. Perhaps to include MagneRide at some point in the future?
    2022 X3 M40i
  • oldranger1oldranger1 Member Posts: 9
    Has anyone heard what the wait is likely to be for a wagon version?
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    In the US it might be forever. :shades:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Motor Trend.

    If the 502 hp HSV edition from Australia, is brought over here then Magneride is one of the features on that car. They said it would be on a limited edition model. The article is from about 4-5 months ago. ;)

    Now lets get this one back on the 08' CTS. Any more news on the CTS-V and when it might debut ?

    Rocky
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    CTS Coupe and Wagon: MY 2009 at the earliest. Possible unveiling at Detroit Auto Show in Jan 08. But they may do one in 09, other in 2010. It's all rumor and speculation at this point.
  • oldranger1oldranger1 Member Posts: 9
    First, this is really on topic, but I may be the only one who really cares about this. I am not a Caddy guy, and gave up on GM in the eighties when I discovered that my 86 Olds, in my mind, was glued together instead of screwed together as I expected. I also, at the time had a '83 Firebird which was a piece of junk, but, mind you, to my mind a good looking piece of junk as it careened down the road and did its level best to do it in a level line. I had a '48 Caddy as my first company car...it sure helps if your new fathet-in-law owns the company, which I loved... the Caddy, not my fathet-in-law. As a weekend vehicle, I bought a new '86 Chevy pickup for $11,000, put 95,000 miles on it and sold it in 1995 for $3000.00. I put this in for all the math freaks who can tell me if that was a good deal or not. Then I bought a 1995 GMC Tahoe. I say GMC because for some strange reason, I don't consider GMC to be part of General Motors. They just seem better. I know they're the same damn thing as a Chevy, I'm just telling you I think they're better. Sanity or logic was never s strong suit in my family.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    GMC, is better because they get a little better grade of parts. I know this because dad made parts for em all at GM/Delphi and Chevy would get GMC's parts that were a hair lower in tolerance. So while they are the same in a lot of ways GMC's are a hair better made.

    Cadillac, Buick, Saab, GMC, all get the best parts.

    The Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, get as good parts but if the part is a hair off in spec but will pass Chevy spec it goes to Chevy. A hair off might mean a millionth of a millimeter so the performance of the part isn't jeapordized but the tolerances of Cadillac and like brands are indeed the highest. A fuel injector going into 3.6 Chevy might not pass 3.6 Cadillac specs is all. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S.

    Hummer, I don't recall where they sit on the tolerance board spectrum
  • oldranger1oldranger1 Member Posts: 9
    The point of all this boring info is the I am NOT a GM or Caddy fan, until I saw the '08 CTS. KNOCKED MY SOCKS OFF!!!Hated the earlier CTS's or should say I just ignored them. I now drive a '02 MB C320 wagon which I really like..O.K., for all you cynics out there, the little tri-star at the end of the hood has something to do about it...but it's just a tad too snug, and forget about adults in the back seat. I end up with my chin on the steering wheel, and the back-seaters end up with their chins on their knee caps. Now, the interior. Loved the idea of the ambient lights and pinlights on different stuff, love the part wooden steering wheel..MB wants over $500 for one on a factory order..seats and just every thing looks plush and perfect in that light colored leather, EXCEPT for that crappy plastic gray colored piece between the top of the dash board and the bottom of the windshield. Where in the hell did that come from? You know what I piece I mean, don't you? I say piece but that sucker is big, and swoops right the whole front under the windshield. Have to see one in person, may be a deal breaker. Hope not.
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    Do you mean the defroster grill? I don't have very good photos of it, but I hadn't even noticed it til you posted.

    I think a mid-sized wagon would be just ideal for me. GM doesn't make one now in the US (Opel has a Vectra wagon that Saturn may one day import). Perhaps the CTS wagon could start a resurgence in US wagons. Right now the Germans and Swedes own the market, which is small but lucrative. Those MB wagons were very popular in toney suburbs in the 80's.
  • oldranger1oldranger1 Member Posts: 9
    No, not the defroster grill, the whole top dashboard over the instrument manual that the defroster grill sits in. Only really noticeably unsightful when you have a light colored interior color. Does that last sentence make sense? I reread it and I don't understand what the hell I mean. Anyway, I must have weird tastes because I was looking at a picture of the new Maserati coupe and it had the same gray dealy...hey, maybe it's to reduce sunlight reflection from the windshield?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    What is an "instrument manual?"
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    You're right, it's dark to reduce glare, and also so it's own reflection in the windshield won't be as noticable. Most people seem to like the CTS's (and SRX's) new dash because it looks like hand-stitched leather (which I suspect will only be used on the V series), instead of hard or moulded plastic, which is considered cheap-looking. It's certainly better than the all-black techno-dash on the current CTS.

    I do prefer the door latches on the current car, however. The placement of the window controls also worries me, but it's 5 hours to Atlanta to see it in person this weekend, when I should be doing my taxes.

    I'm glad to see more poly-chromatic interiors. I'm tired of the multiple shades of gray I've had the last 23 years (which is better than all one shade of gray).

    I wonder how dark the Mulberry leather interior will be. I'm guessing it replaces black as a choice, which means it will be pretty dark.
  • piasonpiason Member Posts: 55
    Has there been any test drives on the new 2008 CTS?
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