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Acura MDX vs BMW X5

13

Comments

  • love2driveinctlove2driveinct Member Posts: 80
    So... I pose a question to those of you that have carefully compared the MDX and the X5... which is more fun to drive?
  • chrism124chrism124 Member Posts: 134
    love2driveinct, I have test driven the X5 3.0si without the sport pkg and an MDX Sport. Based on this comparison, overall I like the drive of the BMW. This was based on the overall experience including brake feel, steering, body roll and driver comfort.

    If driving and styling were the only two factors, the X5 would be my first choice. However I need an SUV that can carry 2 adults, 2 children and 1 dog plus cargo. Now other factors such as cargo space, 3rd row seat access and price become a factor.

    I like the overall design and materials used in the X5 over the MDX. However it is worth another $8k for this? For some it may but I need the cargo space which the X5 simply doesn’t have.

    Regards,
    NHman
  • love2driveinctlove2driveinct Member Posts: 80
    Thanks NHman.

    We need space for 3 children and no dogs. (We do have 2 dogs, but we don't really bring them anywhere.) If my hubby ends up with another Pilot, then we would still have a vehicle with a bit more cargo space. He implied that he was willing to "sacrifice" and get another Pilot (great deals right now), if our family vehicle was a bit more fun than the MDX we currently have. My top choices are the X5, XC90, and another MDX when our lease is up. And of those, I think the X5 is the only one he'd consider fun to drive. The question is, is it $8K+++ worth of fun?? :confuse:
  • danil34danil34 Member Posts: 11
    Compared and test drove both car last week.
    Tested it hard in the freeway and curves.
    Went with MDX because comparably equipped is $14K cheaper and 2.9% financing and has better handling IMHO.

    I also assume that Honda/Acura has much better resale value and far more reliable than BMW.
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    Your assumption that Honda and Acura have better resale value than BMW is incorrect. Several surveys over the past few years, including JD Powers and Kelly Blue Book have ranked BMW at, or near, the top of the list for resale value. It depends on who conducted the survey and how they group vehicles into categories. But generally, BMW ranks higher than Honda/Acura for resale value. Recently, Infiniti has been hitting the number one position.

    As for being "far more reliable" check out the MDX discussions in this forum to see the long, long list of complaints about the new MDX's reliability. Even Consumer Reports does not give the MDX its top reliability rating.

    Look to the right of this posting under "LEARN MORE" and read the reviews of the MDX. Note the most recent post (2/15/08) about the MDX that says, "Bought this car two months ago, sport model with ent-package and other bells and whistles. Supposed to enjoy this luxury vehicle, but having nothing but troubles." Also note that consumer reviews in this forum rate the X5 higher than the MDX in 2007 and 2008.

    In my personal experience as someone who has owned 5 X5s and 14 BMWs, I have had no significant reliability issues with any of my X5s (with the possible exception of the very first model year in 2000 when the E53 X5 was brand new to BMW.) After a year of driving the second generation E70 X5, it never went back to the shop except for scheduled maintenance, which of course was free. Not a single defect.

    Compare that with the one Acura that I owned, which had 8 visits to the shop in the first year and several problems that could not be repaired except by trading it in. That vehicle was a nightmare and it's the reason why I switched to German cars and never looked back.

    These forums are loaded with discussion about reliability, both good and bad, so I judge by my personal experience (which is considerable with BMW). My experience with BMW reliability has been overwhelmingly positive. You'll have to judge the MDX based on your particular experience. Hopefully, it will live up to your expectations.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    In my personal experience as someone who has owned 5 X5s and 14 BMWs, I have had no significant reliability issues with any of my X5s (with the possible exception of the very first model year in 2000 when the E53 X5 was brand new to BMW.) After a year of driving the second generation E70 X5, it never went back to the shop except for scheduled maintenance, which of course was free. Not a single defect.

    Wow thats a lot of experience with 14 bmw.

    but u did get rid of ur current x5 rite?

    U had no significant reliability issues means there were some issues?

    Since u owned so many bmw never tried getting a lexus?

    lately i heard that lexus electronic is better than bmw and much more refreshing

    any comments?
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    As I said in my post, "After a year of driving the second generation E70 X5, it never went back to the shop except for scheduled maintenance, which of course was free. Not a single defect."

    I traded out of my most recent X5 after one year because I get a new vehicle every year and I wanted to try something different. I did not trade it because I was unhappy with it.

    I have driven many Lexus vehicles over the years and hated the driving experience, suspension, seats, and the steering column made of rubber. I also fundamentally object to paying luxury vehicle prices for a car that was built from parts that are designed to be cost effective in a $25,000 Camry. I would never, ever buy a Lexus even though the Mark Levinson stereo is superior and Toyota electronics are easier to use.
  • prazpraz Member Posts: 163
    I agree with Anon that parts on Lexus are from Camry but not all parts. Also, not all Lexus vehicles are built on Camry, some are. For discussion purpose, let us consider 2007 Camry and 2007 ES. Apart from engine and transmission, I don't see many parts being common including the sheet metal and design. Seriously, how many of you will check the materials on parts? All that matters is reliability, comfort ride, luxury and fuel economy. People buy Lexus because they can afford extra money for prestige and at the same time have the advantage of replacing parts that are not expensive which means less maintenance costs. Going by numbers, RX (6th year model) sold more than 100,000 units last year and ES sold close to 85,000 units and these numbers are high for luxury vehicles that are built on $25,000 cost effective platform. Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, BMW, Audi, Benz and other manufacturers build good vehicles but all depends on one's taste.
  • bcb1bcb1 Member Posts: 149
    Sorry but there isn't much activity on the "regular" X5 forum (not since last December!), so I thought I might get an answer here. I've always owned large SUV's. My current one is a Yukon that I bought new in 2000 and has been very reliable and trouble-free, even with 150K miles on it.

    I'm itchy to buy a new (used) SUV and the X5 intrigues me. My wife drove one at Carmax and fell in love with it. I had been leaning towards a Toyota Land Cruiser or Sequoia, but now I'm wondering about the X5.

    So I'd be interested in hearing from anyone that owns an X5, mostly about their reliability, annoyances, positive features, etc. If it makes any difference, I'd probably go with the 2003 model year, 3.0 engine.
  • kkelly2kkelly2 Member Posts: 5
    In December we traded in our 2000 Landcruiser for a 2008 X5 3.0. If it were not for the > $70k price tag and the 3rd row that doesn't fold flat, I would have definitely gone for another Landcruiser. In the 8 years we had it, we never had one problem. But I wanted to upgrade safety features, get a nav and sat. radio and especially increase the mpg. Our search was limited b/c we need a 3rd row for carpooling the kids. As it turns out, I absolutely love my X5. Handling is great. The one-knob technology system (nav, audio, etc) is significantly better than the competition (my husband has an Acura and it's terrible). The 3rd row is tight, but works for the kids. And so far I'm getting over 17mpg with virtually no highway driving (Landcruiser was closer to 11). So no complaints - it's great. Can't speak to the '03, but I'd go for '08 if you can swing it.
  • bcb1bcb1 Member Posts: 149
    Thanks for your advice. I drove a Sequoia and LC on the same day at Carmax just to get a good side by side comparison. I liked both, but thought the Sequoia might be just a little smoother. But ugh...I've already owned a Yukon for 8 years now and was just ready to try something a little different. And the BMW X5 is definitely a little different. I just hope I don't end up regretting my decision when I go to haul 20 or 30 bags of wood pellets or mulch :) The X5 has a lot of sport, very little utility.

    Re: the '08 vs. '03. Cost is definitely an issue. We try to pay cash for our car purchases (actually we usually end up financing about 20% of the purchase). So we can easily do that on an '03 X5. On an '08....not so much. I just don't like owing a pile of money on a depreciating asset.
  • thstonethstone Member Posts: 6
    You can ALWAYS pay less to get less. Either you want the best driving SUV (the BMW X5) or you don't. Money is not the primary concern.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Except the X5 doesn't really drive any better than the MDX. At least, not from an overall performance perspective. You can nitpick about the MDX not braking well, but the MDX fans can counter with faster acceleration times (0-60, 1/4 mile, rolling start, etc.). At the end of the day, each has their strong points, but the overall differences between the two are minor.

    If you want to take the approach that the X5 offers more amenities, or a more luxurious package, I could take your point. You pay more and you get more by going with the X5. But from the driver's seat, the MDX delivers equivalent performance for fewer dollars.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    The MDX has much more interior space behind the front seats than the X5. The MDX is a more practical vehicle. I can put my road bike in the MDX. It won't fit in the X5.

    In a C&D comparo, the 2007 MDX crushed the V6 X5, as it did all the other V6 SUV's in the comparo.

    The MDX totally rocks! :shades:
  • seawolf21seawolf21 Member Posts: 11
    Really loved the styling on the X5 and wife even okayed the X5...but there's been complains about the X5 camera at night on bimmerfest. That was more of a deal breaker than the $11K premium. I do miss the parking distance control function and the turning grid lines on the rearview camera during the day. :(
  • sloperbsloperb Member Posts: 2
    I owned an '07 MDX (Tech+Entertainment) and recently traded in for an '09 BMW X5 4.8i. Here are my thoughts on both.

    First, I'll say I loved my MDX and it was hard to trade it in. Unfortunately, I had an issue where smoke started coming out of the center console. Two Acura dealerships and the regional engineers looked at it and declared the car was fine, but the poor customer service we got from the dealership and from Acura headquarters killed any loyalty I might have had to Acura and instead of reassuring my wife that the car was safe, convinced her we needed a new car.

    From a handling standpoint, the X5 in "Sport" handling mode and the MDX (I didn't have the sport suspension on the MDX) seem to handle almost identically to me. I have a steep switch-backed stretch of road near my house and both handled it great. The X5 without sport handling enabled seemed to have a little more tail drift and took a little more micro-adjustments steering at speed to keep it tracking than the MDX.

    The MDX had *a lot* more room in the cargo area. This is the hardest thing to give up as we tend to put stroller+groceries+new plants in the back a couple times a month and it has become a packing challenge with the X5. The rear gate on the MDX will remotely close, is a full gate rather than two pieces, could be closed manually easily, and did the "slow close" for the last 2 inches, protecting things you might have in the back (plants, etc) from damage. I had both in 7-seats, and the 3rd row in the MDX was noticably roomier.

    The MDX was also 2 inches wider than the X5, which given how wide both are in general, that 2 inches actually makes a difference squeezing into parking spots and getting out without banging your door.

    The 2nd-row doors also opened wider on the MDX. The X5's open plenty-wide, but that extra ~4 inches of travel helps when you're loading in a baby like we are.

    The rubber mats in the MDX were also of higher quality and fit cleanly over the carpet mats.

    Finally, the navigation system and entertainments/environment controls were far easier to use on the MDX. iDrive is just painful. The map showed colored traffic speeds in the MDX whereas the triangles on the BMW are ok, they're not as helpful. I also miss being able to just have the map up all the time automatically (I get this in the BMW only if the map is on the smaller right-hand screen) and being able to just move the cursor, click and set as a destination. I found this helpful when trying to figure out how to get on a highway. I'd just scroll down, find any old spot down the highway and let the nav-system tell me how to navigate to the onramp.

    Gas mileage on the MDX averaged a good 3mpg better than the X5 so far. I like the little tire pressure display on the MDX and haven't been able to figure out how to see the actual tire pressure on the X5, though I know it is measuring them.

    The MDX's ceiling-mounted DVD player with built-in wireless speakers and wireless remote were great. Our daughter isn't old enough to enjoy them, so we rarely used them, but they certainly beat the X5's center-mounted screen the blocks access to the center-console compartment and lack of wireless headphones.

    The cup-holders in the side-pockets on the doors are really convenient.

    Ok, so what do I like better about the X5?

    The X5 V8 accelerates a bit faster than the MDX, but not noticeably at the low range. Presumably the increased weight offsets the additional horsepower a bit. That said X5 really jumps much better than the MDX when driving at highway speeds. Zoom, it just goes!

    Fit and finish on the body panels, etc feel much much better on the BMW. The Acura really felt like an upgraded Honda, not a ground-up luxury vehicle when it came to things like the rubber seals around the doors which would pop out sometimes.

    Visibility is better in the X5. The side-mirrors are bigger and the far-back windows are bigger. The bigger sun-roof is also nice. Comfort-access is better than the big switch-blade key that the MDX gave.

    The bluetooth integration is much better on the X5. I had problems between the iPhone and the MDX when it came to initiating calls with the iPhone or switching between iPhone and car speaker on an active call. Further, the X5 pulls in your full addressbook for dialing through iDrive or voice-based, whereas the voice-based addressbook and scrollable addressbook in the MDX both had to be programmed separately.

    The X5 has iPhone integration and the MDX didn't. The iPhone integration works great. I'm finding Sirius reception to be worse than XM, but I may have an antenna problem that I need the dealership to look at.

    I love the 6 programmable buttons on the X5. Setting a button to speed-dial my wife is far more convenient than doing voice-based access.

    The X5's built-in side-window shades are handy with a baby.

    The turning lines and parking radar for the parking camera in the X5 are really great. I didn't realize how much I'd like them. I do, however, hate the little message that says "do not rely on camera alone" because it creates a blind-spot right where a crazy driver doing 50mph in a parking lot would appear first. I like to see those folks coming.

    I found the front and middle-row seats to be similarly comfortable and spacious in both cars. Both cars seemed similar wrt to road-noise. Cruise control is similar. Garage door access and gate openers both worked fine on both cars.

    Overall, the MDX set a really high bar, but aside from the lack of cargo-space I'm really happy with my X5. That said, I paid a lot more for the X5. Some of that will be made up by the zero BMW maintenance costs in the first 50,000 miles, but not nearly enough to justify the difference.

    So in conclusion... in my experience both are great cars and perform very similarly. I give the edge to the MDX on roominess and accessibility of back seats. I give the edge on fit+finish to the X5. I find the X5 easier to park. The improved iPhone/Bluetooth is offset by the frustrating nav+iDrive. Price goes to the MDX. Thus far, customer-care and service go to BMW.

    Ultimately, the question likely comes down to brand -- do you want an Acura or do you want a BMW?
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    "Ultimately, the question likely comes down to brand -- do you want an Acura or do you want a BMW?"

    As you point out price is also a consideration, especially if you're looking at the 4.8i instead of the base engine.

    One point you did not touch on is the sound systems - which do you think sounds better and which is more convenient to work with?
  • magbarnmagbarn Member Posts: 35
    Did you consider the diesel engine? That's the X5 I'd get
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Great write up, sloperb. :)

    No smoke coming from our center stack (was it smoke or steam?).
    Our '07 sport/ent has been fairly bulletproof like our '04 MDX, not real pleased with getting 25k miles out of the OEM Michelins but the Mich's in "sport" mode was a blast, much like the handling on my '05 TL.
  • nestlemannestleman Member Posts: 1
    I have always put a great deal of research into buying a new vehicle and I always end up going back to consumer reports, they are pretty much the bench mark when road testing new vehicle's and reliability, what I have found however is that if you find a car that looks good on paper you still have to test drive it and like it, now getting back to what vehicle is better? it all depends on your preference, I personally have driven both vehicles and in a perfect world if the x5 came with the same track record as far as reliability, and if the two were priced equally it would make my decision an easy one, the people I know that buy the bimmer dump in after the 3 year free maint, according to them your basic oil change , brake pads if you stick with them after the 3 years they will get their money back from you on the exuberant maintenance cost.

    My recommendation is to check with consumer reports first, see what they have to say first and then test drive and compare yourself, but in the newest report the MDX comes out on top, and by quite a margin.
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    edited May 2010
    [[I wrote this response before realizing that you responded to a post from almost a year ago. Sigh.]]

    You wrote: "the people I know that buy the bimmer dump in after the 3 year free maint..."

    BMW's factory maintenance isn't three years. It's four years or 50,000 miles, so the theory about BMW getting their money back from their customers at the three-year mark through exuberant repair costs doesn't hold water.

    Regarding the original discussion thread:

    I read consumer reports like everyone else. Then I compare it to my own (extensive) experience with BMW and I put more weight on personal experience. None of my BMWs in the past 9 year has required a single factory warranty repair, with the exception of a 2002 745i. I've had 14 BMWs since 1997 including 6 X5s and now a 7th 2011 X5 on order. My X5s have been universally defect free, even the ones that I ran past the 50,000 mile warranty.

    Context in reliability reports is everything. Unfortunately, most readers don't use enough brain cells to consider the context. Long term Consumer Reports numbers and JD Power 3-year reliability studies use an "industry average" as a benchmark for comparison of individual makes and models. That average is measured by the number of defects per 100 vehicles. As the automotive industry continues to improve quality, the benchmark average decreases and individual makes can look worse by comparison even when their reliability has actually improved. That average number is heavily affected by the makes at the bottom. When the worst ones improve, the average increases significantly.

    Case in point: In the 2010 JD Power 3-year vehicle dependability study, BMW's rank declined to slightly below the industry average. Did BMW's quality get worse? No. BMW's reliability actually improved. The difference was that the industry average improved by a greater margin (to 155 problems per 100 vehicles down from 170) and therefore, by comparison, BMW slipped. In Consumer Reports, that would generate a half-black circle. That looks bad when you dumb it down into a graphic that Ma and Pa Kettle can comprehend in two seconds. But that change indicates no material difference in the real world.

    If a Ma and Pa Kettle took the time to look at the actual numbers, they'll see that the most dependable brand (Porsche) had 110 problems per 100. BMW had 165. Is that a big difference?

    For comparison between Acura and BMW: Acura has 143 problems per 100. BMW has 165 problems per 100. Is your vehicle going to have 1.43 or 1.65 defects? Is that difference significant? No. Either way, you're likely to have 1 or 2 defects that will be repaired under warranty.

    When you break the numbers down by model, BMW had the best reliability in some categories like Compact Premium Sporty Car. Acura wasn't tops in any category.

    So again, as Nestleman stated, it comes down to personal preference and which vehicle you're going to enjoy driving. The real numbers say that reliability is not likely to be a significant difference between BMW and Acura. Although, everything else being equal, I'll take the car with zero maintenance and repair costs for four years.

    Now, for the really interesting numbers: Some of the best 3-year scores were earned by US manufacturers. Lincoln, Buick, and Mercury took 3 of the 5 top spots. And Buick beat Lexus in vehicle dependability. That's an improvement.
  • minihopefulminihopeful Member Posts: 14
    Good thread, as I just went through this evaluation recently and ended up with the new MDX. Right off the bat, I'll admit what I wanted was the X5 diesel. I tend to favor driving dynamics & opulence in any car I buy. However, that isn't to say I'm willing to pay any price for it. Without going into all the details, I'll just summarize my personal verdict by saying the MDX won on virtually all convenience and practicality measures, while the X5 was the winner in the performance-oriented categories. I went with the Tech and Entertainment packages, which when comparably equipped, the best offer I got on the X5d was still $12K more, and without the 2.9 APR like with the MDX (now 1.9). Whatever advantages the X5d has over the new MDX, I just didn't feel they were $12K+ worth.

    For those considering both choices, you can't really go wrong with either one.
  • thorton11thorton11 Member Posts: 2
    Car and driver stated it best when it compated X5 MDX XC90 ect....

    Anyone with any issues can show me their professional experience test driving and rating cars....nuff said

    You'll be happy to know that this second-gen Acura MDX — which still sounds to us like a medical condition — was victorious almost everywhere it poked its gaudy grille. Check it out: Greatest skidpad grip. Highest lane-change speed. Second-quickest sprint to 60 mph. Best driving position. Best back-seat comfort. Lightest curb weight. Steering and brake feel that were tied with the BMW's. A ride as cushy as the Benz's. And a fun-to-drive rating equaled only by the Cadillac's. All of that for the lowest as-tested price.
  • thorton11thorton11 Member Posts: 2
    BTW they have profession experience test driving and evaluating cars....doubt any of us have that on our resume.

    You'll be happy to know that this second-gen Acura MDX — which still sounds to us like a medical condition — was victorious almost everywhere it poked its gaudy grille. Check it out: Greatest skidpad grip. Highest lane-change speed. Second-quickest sprint to 60 mph. Best driving position. Best back-seat comfort. Lightest curb weight. Steering and brake feel that were tied with the BMW's. A ride as cushy as the Benz's. And a fun-to-drive rating equaled only by the Cadillac's. All of that for the lowest as-tested price.
  • sjthomassjthomas Member Posts: 61
    Regarding the steering wheel, I have to disagree. I am speaking about Non-Advance package. The steering is definitely on the loose side when you compare it with X5.
  • sanjaysdcasanjaysdca Member Posts: 269
    I've had 14 BMWs since 1997 including 6 X5s and now a 7th 2011 X5 on order. My X5s have been universally defect free, even the ones that I ran past the 50,000 mile warranty.

    6 X5 in 13 years...that is little over 2 year each....all probably under warranty
    Unless you have owned multiple X5 at the same time..
    even then how many have you owned beyond 80K mark.

    I do agree with you that the difference of 1.63 and 1.43 is not significant for ME to choose one over the other...having said that the fact that industry average has improved at a faster rate than BMW improvement rate does not bode well for BMW.

    MDX is more of a "Value Luxury" while BMW is "Luxury"

    BTW I own a 2008 MDX and my rationale of buying an MDX over X5 was
    1) SUV are not a driving machines
    2) Driving characterstics of MDX are better than X5
    3) For the price of similarly equipped X5 I can buy an MDX and Miata/ base BMW 1 series (may be)/genesis coupe/370Z (may be)...for driving pleasure
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    "BTW they have profession experience test driving and evaluating cars....doubt any of us have that on our resume. "

    You're wrong about that. I can show you over 150 hours of track time behind the wheel of BMWs in addition to having owned 15 of them since the mid 90's, including back to back direct comparison from model to model through daily driving. So I'll stack my credentials up against the media reviewers who spend 30 - 60 minutes in a manufacturer-sponsored test drive before writing their reviews. The only articles in Car and Driver, Motortrend, etc. that I pay any attention to are the long term reports that include comments from multiple drivers over many months and thousands of miles.

    I can feel the difference in the drive train and build quality when I take a honda or toyota product out on the road. The big difference is this: Honda and Toyota start with mass-market, down-market parts and then and dress them up to be a luxury vehicle. Their engines are transmissions are common across all their models and they just tweak the horsepower and torque by a couple percent. So when you pay for an Acura or Lexus, you're getting a dressed up honda or toyota.

    BMW doesn't build anything but BMWs. Look under the hood and you won't find an engine designed to be cost effective in a $22,000 car. They don't build pick-up trucks and dress them up into luxury SUVs. The difference comes from driving a purpose-built vehicle vs a mass produced volume vehicle built from a common parts bins. (And look what happened this year to all those Toyotas built from the common parts bins: the problems hit Lexus and Toyota both because their core drive trains and engine management systems are all the same.)

    Where I live, the MDX is a mini van for soccer moms and grocery stores and are driven from point A to B by people who don't care about driving skill or driving experience. It's just a shiny mass hauler for the upper middle class. If I ever were in the market for a mini-van, I'd certainly consider the MDX.
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    edited September 2010
    "6 X5 in 13 years...that is little over 2 year each....all probably under warranty
    Unless you have owned multiple X5 at the same time. even then how many have you owned beyond 80K mark."


    You show your lack of knowledge about the brand and the vehicle. The X5 hasn't been around for 13 years. The first E53 model was produced as a 2000 model. No X5 stickered over 80k (unless it had every possible option and even then it would be right at $80k) until the X5 M debuted a year ago. Your question about the "80k mark" is irrelevant. That's like asking you how many Honda products have you owned that cost over $80k. The answer is none and it has zero bearing on their reliabilty. But, for the record, I've owned two BMW's that stickered over $100k.

    Then you say "the fact that industry average has improved at a faster rate than BMW improvement rate does not bode well for BMW." You should brush up on your facts and your statistical analytical skills. The point of this thread was to show that the poor performers at the bottom of the list were weighing down the industry average with extremely poor performance. As the bottom quartile improves, the industry average as a whole improves dramatically. And that has no material bearing whatsoever on the reliability of the models at the top of the averages.

    So you don't have any idea what the BMW improvement rate is or what it "bodes for BMW" because you haven't done your homework. And you don't even own a BMW and probably have zero experience with them, so your comments about BMW are just the musings of the uniformed.
  • jensadjensad Member Posts: 388
    I suspect that servicing your vehicle may be less with the MDX, vs. the BMW. I own an RL and I owned previously a RX 330 and I observed that the labor costs at Lexus was at that time, $ 240/hr vs the Acura labor was $ 120/hour.

    If that is still true/close then over a 3-5 yr period the maintence costs would be significant. Maybe not too relevant however, it will be significant if one owns their vehicle for 5 to 6 yrs.

    My money is on the MDX as we have owned over the years six hondas, and one Lexus and three Acuras. For my money, jmo, Acura takes care of me and my family quite well especially now as I am retired.

    Good luck to all and stay safe.

    jensad :)
  • abmwfanabmwfan Member Posts: 47
    edited September 2010
    Sanjaysdca writes:
    "1) SUV are not a driving machines
    2) Driving characterstics of MDX are better than X5
    3) For the price of similarly equipped X5 I can buy an MDX and Miata/ base BMW 1 series (may be)/genesis coupe/370Z (may be)...for driving pleasure"

    Right there you have just told the world that you should never be a BMW customer. Driving for you is just getting from point A to point B in comfort. A BMW would be wasted on you. I'm sure someone at BMW thanks you for not buying their vehicle because you probably would just complain about it endlessly.

    And your item #3 is just plain wrong. You can't buy an MDX and a second new car for the price of a similarly equipped X5. I'd love to see the math that allowed you to arrive at that conclusion.

    All this is just pointless banter if we don't define the comparison. The X5 vs MDX comparisons that I've read over the past years compare a base model X5 with BMW's old engines to an MDX.

    So here's a list of choices that BMW offers and that you CAN'T get from an Acura MDX.
    1) Choice of 4 engines ranging from diesel to 555 hp twin-turbo V8. (The MDX offers one engine, one size fits all.)
    2) A vehicle that is easily customizable to your preferences (from luxury to pure performance), custom ordered and delivered in as little as 4 weeks. (80% of BMWs are custom ordered by buyers instead of mass produced with options selected by Honda and dumped onto dealers' lots.)
    3) Advanced, direct-injection engines that improve both performance and mpg. (Honda uses 10-year-old technology in its engines).
    4) 8 speed transmission to improve performance and mpg. Honda just introduced its first 6 speed transmissions in 2010.
    5) A vehicle made in the US (South Carolina) creating jobs for Americans. The MDX is made in Canada.
    6) An SUV that gets 28 mpg highway. The best you'll get from an MDX is 21 mpg.
    7) An SUV that will go 0 - 62 in 4.7 seconds or less.
    8) A manufacturer that is first to market with new technology that the others copy and a manufacturer that defines new auto market segments that others mimic. (The X5 was the first SUV of its kind, defined the performance/luxury SUV market segment, and was later copied by Honda, Toyota, etc.)
    9) Real wood trim and premium nappa leather, even on the dashboard.

    So the MDX would be a great choice if you're looking for a solid performing entry level luxury SUV that is relatively inexpensive because it's built from a mass-produced Honda platform using 5 and 10-year-old drive train technology. It's a great vehicle for people who don't want to be bothered by choices beyond color and electronics. It's also a great vehicle if you're willing to trade fit and finish for lower price.

    [By the way, here's what thetruthaboutcars.com had to say about the 2010 MDX: "Sadly, the interior door pulls, the first point of contact when getting into the car, are composed entirely of the stuff [cheap metallic plastic]. The switchgear might be good by the standards of a decade ago, but the target has been moving upwards. The overall fit and finish of the interior (or lack thereof) is clearly second tier among premium brands. The door-to-dash panel fit is downright awful. Even GM’s interiors are more tightly and precisely constructed lately, and the new SRX looks and feels much nicer inside than the latest MDX. Overall, with the 2010 refresh Acura hasn’t done enough to keep the MDX competitive."]
  • sanjaysdcasanjaysdca Member Posts: 269
    May be I was not too clear

    What I should have said that beyond 80000 miles NOT $80K.

    Also anyone, in my opinion, , buys a SUV/crossover for a driving experience is fooling him/herself. Mazda 3/Genesis coupe can run circles around any SUV

    And you are right I have not owned a BMW and probably will never own one. Having said that I have had Audi S6 that has satiated my need for a drivers car.

    As the bottom quartile improves, the industry average as a whole improves dramatically

    You said it yourself bottom quartile has improved that has improved the industry average, but BMW has not improved....

    and yes I know that that it is easier to improve the bottom quartile

    Statistics is like a bikini...what it shows is suggestive and what is hides is vital
    you can spin it any way and that is what a good statistical analysis is all about how you use the tool

    For example you can use the statistics to design a very reliable product or you can use the tool such that the product fails right after warranty...

    I know that because I consulted with a company that wanted its microwave to fail between 12 month (the warranty period) and 18 months (Threshold at which people buy new and not service)...because service calls generate more money then buying new

    Yes I know statistics and data analysis.

    So may be BMW is very smart and do not want to design extremely reliable products as they have a "cult" following and people will buy/defend the products no matter what.

    MDX beats X5 in car and driver test
    Last gen A6 beats new BMW 5 series in car and driver test.

    No perceived or real reliability & now driviability showing cracks....definately does not bode well for BMW.

    and before moderators chuck us out I think I will refrain from replying any comments that attack me personally like:

    You show your lack of knowledge about the brand and the vehicle.
    you probably are right here
    You should brush up on your facts and your statistical analytical skills
    you are way out here my friend.
    because you haven't done your homework
  • sparklelovesparklelove Member Posts: 11
    I don't get SOME of BMW owners that defend a car that is not that reliable, and b4 anyone jumps on my back, my dad and uncle and I both have BMW's, My dad and Uncle have 7 series and the X5,and I own a BMW 5 series 535i cuz my dad bought it for me. ..... Let's Get Real Here for One Sec.......... JMO

    1. No one in their right minds is going to go no faster than 150hp if you're lucky to even hit 150hp so the whole concept of 4 engines is useless unless you plan on going to a racetrack for the next 3 to 5 years testing your car, so really the car is wasted already, cuz no one really has pushed it to it's limits long enough to really see or know what BMW's can or will do

    2. Custom ordered is another way to say " BUY BUY BUY MY PLASTIC SHINNY PRODUCT AND STYLE IT THE WAY WE THE BMW WANT IT TO GO ON YOUR CAR", cuz truth be told unless you go to coast customs, or any real custom detailer, your still just getting "A BMW PART", I know this cuz my friend works for a BMW company and that's pretty much what it is, Custom IMO should not look like someone can or will get it, cuz all bmw's look alike to me, from Dashboards to the tail end of the car. JMO, it's suppose to be Custom MADE

    3. Again I don't care what people say about any other car, but unless you USE and I MEAN USE that pretty new ENGINE that you over paid thousands of dollars for that really don't cost that much anyway, then hey nothing lost, other wise YOU JUST WASTED YOUR MONEY ON A ENGINE YOU DON"T EVEN USE, why you asked..... again go to my number 1 reason, case closed

    4. Transmissions, all I'm gonna say is times are changing, and if demand asked for a new one, then hey go for it, just make it work, ever car company has done it.

    5. PLEASE STOP BLAMING OVER SEAS FOR THEIR PRODUCTS, WE ALL USE THEM, OTHERWISE GIVE UP THE BMW, SAMSUNG, SONY or ANY OTHER PRODUCT, Bmw is NOT 100% American

    6. X5 does 18city 22 highway, if that, and that depends on who's the lead foot

    7. No one here can say what the 0 to 60 does unless you have done it yourself, everyone is different, and drive different and stops and goes different, other wise lose the fancy security feature for helping drivers with the car in front of you that suddenly stops..... case close (JMO)

    8. Unless the BMW manufacturer grows some sense ( I mean that with the most respect tho) to build a reliable Car...... NO COMMENT

    9. Real wood trim and premium nappa leather, even on the dashboard... names, names, names,.... ummm, contemp Wood.. sorry, again my friend works for BMW, and it's just polished with this chemical I forgot the name of it, but that's what it is, REAL WOOD does age and does not have food coloring, and anyone that doesn't know that should go back to school, we humans polish the wood to keep it from aging to a degree that it doesn't look bad, which in the end makes the wood itself into a matel doll, so it's REAL CONTEMP WOOD trim, ok, we have all hadleather b4 so if that same Nappa Leather ends up on a Ford model, don't cry, just 4 the BMW owners they will call it CUSTOM leather..... JMO

    10. EVERY CAR IS NOT PREFECT...if it was no one would need comparisons

    But other than that I like both cars, just had to ask my dad, uncle about their friends that own one, and not many can say that they push their car to the point of how or what there car can or can't do, again back to the engine, no one needs that much hp, cuz you will NEVER touch it. JMO
  • cr1970cr1970 Member Posts: 2
    I have been following this thread closely as my lease is up on my Lexus RX350. While I LOVE the Lexus, I will be buying it off lease for my wife and trying something new with more space and a 3rd row. I am down to the MDX and X5.

    I have been researching this decision for some time now and it seems pretty clear that the MDX is a more reliable vehicle. I don't just get this from Consumer Reports or the other online/print reviews, but from BMW owner's forums, personal experience with BMW owners (7 series, 3 series and X5 owners) as well as BMW technicians and oddly enough, their salespeople. Just this past weekend I test drove a X5 diesel. I really liked it, and I WANT to go with the X5. I prefer the front end of the X5 and the price is very good right now with the $4,500 incentive, but the salesman also used to sell Acura and said there is no question that the Acura is more reliable, and less costly to maintain He kept saying that the BMW is the ultimate driving machine, but I can't expect it to be as reliable as an Acura.

    Even though the X5 has maintenance included I don't want to be a habitual leaser so I would like the option of buying it after the lease is up. It is true, BMW fans are a lot like Apple fans. They will worship at the ialter no matter how bad the new iphone or iPad is, or how many times AT&T drops their calls. BMW has similar fans. I am one. I love the way they look and drive and WANT to ignore the rest. I just don't like the idea of spending $60k then being forced to drive a 3 series while the X5 gets repaired. And that is what I have heard happens.

    I am grasping at straws, and looking for just enough reasons to go with BMW. First, they have a local dealership and I'd have to drive a minimum of 90 miles to get an Acura. It should be a no brainer, it's just that there seems to be overwhelming evidence that Acura is more reliable and the X5 isn't even marginally reliable. Even with the MDX's known issues, it pails in comparison to what I have read on the X5. And that is the biggest factor to me. I have driven well over 50,000 flawless, trouble free miles in my Lexus, even through some pretty rough midwest winters, and that is how I prefer it. After I pay almost $50 k for a car, I expect it to be reliable. It used to be worth the extra maintenance and operating expense if you wanted a "driver's" SUV but I think the gap is narrowing. It actually seems like BMW would rather be on the bleeding edge of technology rather than cutting edge. I am NOT a fan of the gear shift at all. Can't I just have a regular gear shift? I would even pay more for it...but I digress. I run a franchised business and that has been beaten down to me over the years from previous and current owners with way more experience than me. They always say be cutting edge, NOT bleeding edge. I actually thought that the MDX was a very nice driver and didn't notice the X5 being that much better though. To me the BMW just looks a lot better.
  • sanjaysdcasanjaysdca Member Posts: 269
    1) Choice of 4 engines ranging from diesel to 555 hp twin-turbo V8. (The MDX offers one engine, one size fits all.)

    Compare a similarly equipped MDX with X5. Then the other choices do not matter.

    2) A vehicle that is easily customizable to your preferences (from luxury to pure performance), custom ordered and delivered in as little as 4 weeks. (80% of BMWs are custom ordered by buyers instead of mass produced with options selected by Honda and dumped onto dealers' lots.)

    Custom ordering is a feel good marketing effort. A good way for "inventory and price control". I will, if I can, do it in my business. That is an enviable position for BMW

    3) Advanced, direct-injection engines that improve both performance and mpg. (Honda uses 10-year-old technology in its engines).

    Counter point would be its a proven technology.
    SH AWD of Acura is more advanced then the run-off-the-mill AWD of BMW.
    You win some you loose some. Cannot pick and choose.

    4) 8 speed transmission to improve performance and mpg. Honda just introduced its first 6 speed transmissions in 2010.

    I will give this to BMW

    5) A vehicle made in the US (South Carolina) creating jobs for Americans. The MDX is made in Canada.

    See we can justify anything.
    May be should consider Cadillac or Ford Flex. Are they American?
    at least American brands pay more taxes to our gov't.
    Buying BMW because its American? I dont think so.
    Its a hazy line as to what is American.

    6) An SUV that gets 28 mpg highway. The best you'll get from an MDX is 21 mpg.

    You probably are comparing X5d with V6 MDX
    from fueleconomy.gov
    MDX 16 (city) 21 (Hwy) AND
    X5 15 (city) 21 (Hwy)

    7) An SUV that will go 0 - 62 in 4.7 seconds or less.

    performance SUV is an oxymoron term

    8) A manufacturer that is first to market with new technology that the others copy and a manufacturer that defines new auto market segments that others mimic. (The X5 was the first SUV of its kind, defined the performance/luxury SUV market segment, and was later copied by Honda, Toyota, etc.)

    Lexus RX300 was first CUV/SUV that created copycats including MDX/X5

    9) Real wood trim and premium nappa leather, even on the dashboard.

    Interior quality of material is definitely better in X5
    but you pay a lot more in terms of money,
    time (spent for service),
    expensive service,
    and of course driving that 1 or 3 series a lot more than the MDX owner driving the TSX.
  • sjthomassjthomas Member Posts: 61
    edited September 2010
    I am in a similar fix. I test drove both the MDX, X5 and the Pilot in that order.

    After driving the MDX and X5d, we decided with our instinct that the X5 is the way to go even though it is expensive, the driving dynamics simply can't be matched with an Acura. And like always there lies a but....The third row was a biggest factor for us and BMW's third row is neither for infants nor for toddlers. Forget adults. It is only designed for kids with a booster seat. I will have to wait few more years for that. So that was a deal breaker for us.

    The MDX steering feel was anemic. The road noise sneaking into the cabin is a lot...and somehow I felt claustrophobic in the third row which is probably the case in any SUV with a third row. The second row cannot be moved back and forth to adjust for the extra third row leg room.

    The pilot on the other hand was very good with the steering feel. The engine is OK powered but I guess that is enough for my wife particularly coming from an V4 SUV that we currently have. We drove a touring model with every goodies that Honda can put. Everything felt good except...take this one...on paper. The braking distance is 149 foot....thats a lot for me. The MDX is only 126 feet in dry conditions. In wet conditions, add 15 more feet to those numbers for both. I think this is a deal breaker for me as it rains a lot here and I need a good breaking distance as my wife did a rear end before because of bad breaking.

    So, although the MDX is a so so on drivng, its safe, reliable and cheaper to maintain if any issues. One of my co-worker who has an Acura says it uses all Honda parts which are cheaper to maintain if any issues and he puts plus gasoline.

    Finally we had to decide with the 2011 MDX as we have to prioritize safety, reliability, maintenance before handling, drivers SUV etc etc. Although what we really wanted was an X5, we had to compromise for an MDX for the above reasons. After all, life is a compromise.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Member Posts: 47
    edited September 2010
    Sanjaya, Let's focus on a few of the incorrect facts in your post that are easily verifiable. You said that it's only valid to compare comparably-equipped vehicles. So let's play by your rules for a moment.

    First: Your claim that the MDX is quicker than the X5 is based on a two-year-old comparison between a 300 HP MDX and a heavier X5 with the base 260 HP engine. Even then, the lighter MDX with 40 more horsepower only beat the heavier X5 by .2 seconds 0 to 60. That's pretty pathetic. And BMW doesn't sell that engine in the X5 any longer.

    So let's use your rules to directly compare apples to apples: 2011 MDX to 2011 X5 3.5i. Both have 300 horsepower 6 cylinder gasoline engines. Both just completed their mid-model refresh and received a new transmission and revised engines.The MDX weighs 4,550 pounds. The X5 weighs 4,960 pounds.Both vehicles are the newest, best, most competitive that these two manufacturers can produce in this particular configuration. Published numbers for 0 to 60 are:

    MDX: 7 seconds
    X5: 6.4 seconds (for the record, BMW's published numbers are conservative averages that are usually overstated. So tests are likely to show performance closer to 6.1 seconds.)

    Second: You say that the MDX gets better mpg than the X5 and you quote fueleconomy.gov
    MDX 16 (city) 21 (Hwy) AND
    X5 15 (city) 21 (Hwy)

    Again your numbers are out of date. Comparing apples to apples, fueleconomy.gov says:

    MDX: 17 city/22 highway, 19 combined
    BMW: 17 city/25 highway, 20 combined

    So here we see that the X5 has leaped ahead of the MDX's old design and engine architecture. While the MDX previously may have been competitive as a "budget/value" option, it hasn't kept up with the competition. The X5 is faster and gets better mpg than the MDX even though it's still 400 lbs heavier. The early reports also show the X5 to be quieter and smoother, while the MDX's engine is described as "truck like".

    This was achieved through direct injection engines, use of advanced turbos, 8 speed transmissions, and advanced engine management systems that you dismiss because you prefer Honda's SOHC 24valve VTEC technology that first debuted around 1995. Tell the truth, are you somebody's grandpa who thinks that things are better just because they're old and that's how things were done decades ago?

    Third: you say that "performance SUV is an oxymoron term". Over a million BMW, Porsche, and Infiniti buyers will disagree with you. An SUV that will hit 60 mph in 4.7 seconds or less is by definition a performance SUV. You can live in denial, but numbers are numbers and the success of that market segment is proof that performance SUVs do exist. I think your point is that you don't care about performance when you're shuttling the kids from point A to B. Even if you don't value performance, you can't rationally pretend that performance SUVs are an invalid class of vehicles.

    Fourth: you say that the RX was the first luxury CUV/SUV. Range Rover was the first luxury SUV. The X5 and the RX both debuted in 2000, so you can't claim that the X5 followed/copied the RX. The car-based utility vehicle (CUV) RX is not a performance vehicle and not in the same class as the X5. The X5 is not a CUV (not built on a 5 series car platform). It uses a purpose-built platform that isn't shared by any BMW cars and it is segmented into a different market segment from the RX. So the comparison between the X5 and the RX is not valid.

    So here's the point: My previous post was about choices that a true luxury manufacturer offers its buyers. Of course the MDX doesn't compare to those X5s because Honda's Acura isn't a true luxury brand. Their business model is entry-level luxury, one-size fits all vehicles that are mass produced from the parts bin using decade-old engine and transmission technology in order to reduce manufacturing costs so that they can sell at a price point that appeals to budget conscious buyers. The Acura customer demographic is for Entry Level Luxury. That means their customers got a pay raise and now can afford to pay an extra $8k to trade the Honda for something with a few more options, nicer leather, and a little more prestige. Honda created the Acura brand to ensure that their customers have something to trade up to as they age. And to ensure that Honda owners wouldn't be forced to look at other brands once they moved a rung higher into middle class.

    As said in a previous post, you're not a BMW customer and you're not their target demographic. The traits that make BMW a true luxury vehicle would be lost on someone who is looking for a comfortable multi-purpose vehicle to haul around some kids for a "value" price. With all the mentions of "price" and "value" in your posts, why not just admit the truth: you didn't want to pay the premium for a BMW so you bought second best.
  • sanjaysdcasanjaysdca Member Posts: 269
    abmwfan
    This probably is my last reply to your post:

    First: Calm down its just a discussion. You might want to learn "how to respond" and keep the post civilized and not attack people. Else when you really need information people probably will not respond.

    I never said that MDX is faster than X5. You probably misread it and it happens when we are more focussed on responding instead of trying to understand the discussion. I too am guilty of it...when I had just started posting in internet sites. We all learn in due time.

    RX was first that defined this segment. Range Rovers and LX etc. were body on frame. Even first mid size luxury SUV ML was body on fame. Unit body midsize SUV was first introduced by Lexus as RX 300.

    For a min forget about marketing hype and think about it
    Can a 4-ton high center of gravity vehicle be a drivers vehicle? I rest my case.

    FWIW: The cost was not a issue
    I paid cash for MDX
    I paid cash for Audi S6
    I paid cash for Infiniti I30
    and all my previous cars(G20, Mazda 323, Nissan Sentra, VW Jetta)

    However for a comfortable people mover like X5, MDX, RX, ML or any other SUV I will talk about value same way when I talk about hiring or giving raises to my high-value employees who then go and mortgage/lease their future to get a blue propeller and THINK they bought the best.

    I think I am digressing and should stop.
  • abmwfanabmwfan Member Posts: 47
    edited September 2010
    Sanjaya, nothing in this discussion was uncivilized. I think you're just threatened by someone who points out your incorrect facts, your lack of understanding of BMW and vehicle market segmentation. You spouted out-of-date numbers and bad data. You were wrong. Get over it.

    BTW, body on frame construction is irrelevant to whether the Range Rover is a luxury SUV.

    And BTW, your statement/question "Can a 4-ton high center of gravity vehicle be a drivers vehicle? I rest my case." is ludicrous. None of these SUVs weighs 4 tons (8,000 pounds). What are you talking about? I don't think you know either..

    This isn't "marketing hype". The entire point of this discussion was to go beyond marketing hype get to the facts and numbers.

    And the point of this discourse really is not to respond to you. It's to correct your distortions and bad data before they are picked up by other readers and become part of popular internet lore.

    So here is a direct question for you. How many of the vehicles on your list have you ever taken to a track or run through a skid pad, slalom, etc? I have a LOT of experience with BMW in those areas, including SUVs. I'm speaking from experience because I have first hand knowledge how performance SUVs handle in those conditions. What's your experience with a vehicle aside from the highway?
  • anon3anon3 Member Posts: 147
    edited September 2010
    However for a comfortable people mover like X5, MDX, RX, ML or any other SUV I will talk about value same way when I talk about hiring or giving raises to my high-value employees who then go and mortgage/lease their future to get a blue propeller and THINK they bought the best.

    Look at your list, sanjaysdca, you've never even owned a BMW. So how can you have a valid opinion about what's the "best"? I've owned Acura, and Audi, and BMW, and a number of other vehicles so I have direct personal experience with both makes. Acura is the reason that I switched to German cars.

    This discussion attempted to focus on verifiable facts and I'm glad that someone took the time to correct the bad data that you were perpetuating.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    The topic is Acura MDX vs BMW X5. Let's not make it Member A vs Member B vs Member C. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • meegwell01meegwell01 Member Posts: 12
    maybe a fresh perspective from someone in the market and reading this thread may help shed new light.

    The argument over performance is a bit off base here for a number of reasons on both sides. The way I look at it is that each person values performance differently. If you want it, its a higher prioridy. Performance, however, is not just a measurement of top speed so saying that just because you'll probably never reach X published top speed you shouldn't value performance is moot. I drive a performance sedan (530i) because I want to be able to pass with ease, and take off/on ramps at higher than normal (and suggested) speeds, among other things. I like the rush. Has nothing to do with my cars electronically limited top speed.

    Further, perfomrance SUVs are real and a real segment. No, they are not the same and will not stand up to performance sedans, coupes, or roadsters because they are bigger, bulkier, and heavier. That is not a reason to make a performance SUV. If you follow the logic that a performance SUV is an oxymoran, then you must only believe that the smallest pure-purpose vehicle (little roadsters I guess) are the only performance vehicles and every other vehicle labeled performance is a joke. Obviously not the case. And more obvious is the large amount of choices for performance SUVs. We here in America even race trucks at a professional level for crying out loud.

    Cornering, tire quality, brake quality...on an on. If you want performance, get performance.

    Someone earlier described to a tee the target market that Honda and Toyota were going after in creating their luxury brands. This is just a business fact. Someone else responded to it as an insult, stating they pay cash for all their cars or something to that effect. The fact surrounding the target market for Lexus and Infiniti is very relevant here. It couples with the parts bin, purpose built, and cost facts also. They knew they could cut costs and deliver a product that is close enough to have people on the internet argue over which is better. Some believe you "get what you pay for", others dont.

    Value is a relative term. I like the tight feel and responsiveness from steering wheel to road when it comes to my vehicle. Others dont care about that but do care that their leather has a name like "napa" (< see, someone will explain to me how it feels nicer or something and Im thinking "thats nice but I dont think I'll pay extra for it over regular leather").

    The bottom line is that anyone looking at an MDX/X5 (I throw the Lexus GX470/460 in here even though its technically not the same) has some decisions to make. Those that choose the japanese brand over the german brand most likely do so because of "value" reasons as it relates to how much they pay vs. what they got (and may not be related to what they didn't get). That is factual also.

    This is the internet. We can all claim that we are millionaires that own all these vehicles and money wasn't an issue in our decision. So be it.
  • sparklelovesparklelove Member Posts: 11
    To the person or x publisher that had an opinion about what some x publishers had to say, I feel the need to post my facts, as I feel the first paragraph was addressed to me, and If it wasn't then, I'm just gonna state my fact. I said in my statement and I'll say it again, no one will ever touch top speed in their bmw so to say you paid top dollar for your engine because it goes x amount of mph is useless which means you paid for an engine you will never use, I never stated preformance or ever stated to not value preformance, but since it was brought up, I'll state it, if preformace is what you want by all means do so, as I stated b4 it is your choice, but to bring up x amount of mph to another car is pointless unless you will touch the x amount of mph to state your opinion to be relevent, now this is just my say so, like it or not it is true.

    I believe if 1 wants to address an x publishers post to read first before judgements are made, fair arguments are always good cuz 1 gets to see and try to understand another persons point of view, and try to adjust 1 or 2 things about the post, but to try to explain in judgement form about x publisher this and that is poor taste, each publisher has a right to state or post what or who they know even if it's right or wrong, fact or fiction. So be it
  • cabluecablue Member Posts: 48
    I looked at both of these almost a year ago. I went with the X5 diesel. If you're willing to spend the extra money, you won't be disappointed with the X5d. We purchased ours and plan to keep it long-term. We've had a number of BMWs and no problems with them. Reliability has simply not been an issue. Of course, there will be those that have, but that's with every make. Acuras may be more reliable, but by how much? I LOVE my X5d. Every day I look forward to driving it. The Acura is nice, too, but not at the same level, imo. Also, I'm getting around 28-29 hwy, and 24 mixed driving, better than any of my BMW sedans I've had (5 series.)
  • pb13f8013pb13f8013 Member Posts: 6
    Wow....u r really mad. I am sure you were typing standing up and angry. And it could be possible that you took a day off to write these responses......hahahaha.......just kidding.

    But I understand your concerns and the excellence of BMW. I myself drive an S4 and admire the German engineering (& its the same S4 which's been beating 335 for last few yrs now.....but no need to get into that). I tried selling it for Infiniti G37 or BMW 335, but couldn't (had terrible experience with 3 series in the past).

    I've had an MDX and X5 4.8xi both. I was recently shopping for new SUV and test drove these two plus Rangerover sport and Cayenne. I just got a new Cayenne S. About the two in question, I think X5 is in the same class of MDX and I needed a step up from both. Moreover, X5 3.0 didn't feel any special to me over MDX. The electronic gadgets in MDX were much more sophisticated than X5. The I-drive system is dumbass system, period. The sound system in MDX is better and so is the roominess and smooth ride. MDX was pretty responsive but X5 is better in that, period, you wre right there. X5 had tighter body feel and yes you are right about less road noise (but not by much) but overall not a step higher than MDX. There's no one criteria which makes one SUV better than the other, its the matter of satisfaction.

    You can create micro-levels of luxury SUVs (just like I did) but that's not the discussion. Read magazines, see websites, Acura is a luxury brand with one of highest technology and reliability, industry compares it to any other luxury brand, with BMW's, Porsches etc etc, they can't be blind. The discussion is which SUV satisfies your needs or wants.

    Another example, X5 is a good sports german engineered activity vehicle. But why didn't you buy a Porsche Cayenne? Its better than X5 in all those driving dynamics, luxury factors, prestige and even reliability (check JD power etc etc). Just like you are trying to prove your purchase to be right, the previous guy was doing the same, again human nature. And he was right in the case of body on frame vs crossover like SUVs (in which lexus was the first------you were wrong and get over it). He bought an MDX, is happy with it and so r u with X5. Every car company has a gem model. BMW's known for 3 series not X5, Acura's known for MDX, not TSX.

    And yes, I do have experience with cars and SUVs aside from highways. Race? that's what I've been doing since I started driving, so anytime.....!

    I was here to see what people think about the comparisons of SUVs, not to hear brand fans.

    Hope you enoy your X5 for a long time....!

    Cheers.....good times.......!
  • 35dor35premium35dor35premium Member Posts: 2
    I own both and they are totally different animals.
    I have driven both in a blizzard and both served me well.
    Neither of them will lose footing and they are rock solid.
    You would experience lag time on an MDX, when trying to pass someone and often that would leave you second guessing and over time you would lose confidence in MDX.

    X5 on other hand is in sync with your mind and is very responsive, there is no second guessing at all.
    I agree X5 is expensive, but you get bang for every single buck.
    MDX is good for hauling kids to practice and for Costco trips.

    They both win in respective price range. I will keep my X5 4.4i any day even though its 5 years older than MDX.

    Me in X5 = :-)
    Me in MDX = :-|
  • splitwindowvetsplitwindowvet Member Posts: 13
    We just sold our 07 X5 4.8i and got a MDX with the Advance and Entertainment packages. As much as we liked the X5, it had some issues that might just be attributable to being a first year model or a dealership that can't distinguish their [non-permissible content removed] from a hole in the ground, but they claim the vehicle was "confused" in terms of how the transmission downshifted when coming to a stop and how it would sometimes think we wanted to drag race the Camry in the next lane when pulling off from a stop because both me and my wife drove the vehicle and had apparently different driving styles. The I Drive is also not great (but better on the updated ones) and the Nav system is horrible compared to Honda/Acura. Here is how I see it:
    Pros for the BMW:
    Cache of the Brand (which is worth exactly nothing)
    Styling
    Driving Dynamics
    Doors have more of quality feel when closing
    No timing belt to replace
    Real wood in the interior (although the 2010 and newer MDX looks like real wood compared to the 2007-2009 ones)

    Pros for the Acura
    Does not require 3 days in the shop to reprogram the control unit so the electric glovebox will open (yes, this really happened)
    AWD system is better and in the curves does have a more locked down feeling (I drive aggressively)
    Transmission shift quality is much better (see my problem listed above)
    Third row is more practical
    Voice Controls actually are logical and easy to use
    Better resale value- at least locally
    Much better ride quality in comfort mode
    Much better audio system (big factor for me, not so much for the kids)
    Better Bluetooth integration

    Overall, the BMW has real potential, but they from a feature to feature standpoint charge about $15000 more for the same vehicle, and that's reflected in resale values.
  • txpackersfantxpackersfan Member Posts: 27
    "Where I live, the MDX is a mini van for soccer moms and grocery stores and are driven from point A to B by people who don't care about driving skill or driving experience. It's just a shiny mass hauler for the upper middle class. If I ever were in the market for a mini-van, I'd certainly consider the MDX."

    I'd have to say both of these vehicles are for upper middle class soccer mommies. Not sure if things are different in other parts of the country, but here in TX I see mostly women driving both the MDX and the X5. Both can be considered today's luxury minivan.
  • kfourkfour Member Posts: 4
    I bought the new MDX a few months ago (3 little kids, occ'l long trips). It's a nice car, but hard to justify the dismal mileage for my daily driver and we decided to get a trailer to pull for trips. I traded in for 2011 X5d and am much happier. Only 500 miles; idrive is less intuitive, but better than acura once you get used to it, plays music from iphone with better quality (premium sound pkg), 3rd row a little tighter, but for kids no problem and the second row seat movement to get back to 3rd row is much easier (can leave kid seat strapped in and just tilt second row forward). I get over 30mpg at 70mph and it's just plain fun to drive, much more connected to the road. Here is one vote for BMW.
  • jdoriajdoria Member Posts: 7
    On the money.

    The more I read this, the less likely I am to go buy this MDX. Really, just call a spade a spade. I wanted it because it had a good navigation, a BS 3rd row seat, and was cheap, no other real tangible reason.

    I love the people who cry about reliability. Who cares if the car breaks, they come pick the car up, fix it, and give you another while you are waiting. I cant say I have been stranded in the past decade from a fault in one of my "premium" cars. Buy a true premium car form a store where you are treated like a human and not cattle and you'll change you tune.

    We were going to get an 11 X5 until we saw the rear cargo room with the 3rd seat up. So I looked at the QX56, which Im likely to buy on Sat.
  • sjaievesjaieve Member Posts: 252
    edited October 2010
    I am also in the market for an SUV and had settled for the MDX because its more reliable and its got more bang for the buck. Now here is my problem. I also have a G37 which is one of the best sports sedans at its price point. I am very familiar with the arguments re: Luxury brand vs Entry Lux brand when comparing a 328i to the G37. Now its purely nonsense to say a 328i will offer Luxury at any scale beyond the G37 given these cars arent that expensive in the first place, hell a minivan can be had for more than each of the two depending on the options. However, at the MDX and X5 level, this argument becomes much more relevant to me at least. We are talking 50k+ for a very well equipped X5/MDX. I can pay 40k for a car that has common parts with a cheaper Nissan (370Z), but 50k+ for a Pilot derived SUV, now thats a tough pill to swallow. I am not saying the MDX does not drive well, neither am I saying it doesnt have a great interior etc, but for the kind of money we are talking about not sharing parts with cheaper models becomes very relevant IMO.

    Right now I am leaning towards the X5 35i for the reasons above, I will keep my G37 for driving pleasure and the X5 for "brand cache". However, I need to see if the HPFP issue arises on the N55 as well in the 2011s.

    And then of course there is this issue

    http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2010/10/bmw_recalls_150000_c- - - ars_over_f.html?rss_id=Top+Stories :P

    A Porsche Cayenne is probably the better way to go but you cant beat the BMW deals on the X5
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