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Will Mercury soon be joining Plymouth and Oldsmobile?

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Comments

  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    ...could make Mercury their performance division! Let's once again see a Marauder, Cyclone, and Cougar at the Sign of the Cat! ROAR!!! Mercury; the Man's Car! :shades: Eco-weenies need not apply! :(
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Mercury used to conjure up all kinds of positive images. Heck, 1949-51 Mercs were the basis for customs and often referred to as "the James Dean car."

    Once in a while, can still see chopped and channeled 49-50 Mercs at hot rod/custom car shows. An old, old movie with James Dean featured a 2-door 49 or 50 Mercury. Remember another movie with Clint Eastwood, "Thunderbird and Lightfoot", were George Kennedy and his partner drove a 51 Mercury.

    In their era, 49's and 50's were a nice style compared to the competition. But, since then, there have been very few notable or desirable models. The Mercury brand has been almost invisible in marketing over the last few decades. In all the years of wife and I buying cars from mfrs GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Nissan, VW, we never "once" even considered looking at or wanting to test drive a Mercury model. Having gone to many auto shows over the years, I can't recall ever wanting to stop by and look at or sit in a Mercury. There never was anything unique or "gotta have" about the Mercury brand.

    In spite of current ad campaign, I would not "put Mercury on my list".
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Mercury had many notable models after the 49-51 (which shared a chassis with Lincoln, not Ford). The Cougar was a highlight, especially the early ones. The 1960s and 1970s saw many successful models, and up until the mid-90s, you could always count on Mercury to have some unique rooflines. The Breezeway roof on the big Mercs allowed the rear window to go down. Cyclones and Marauders kept up with the muscle competition. The first Sable was more upscale than the Taurus and it sold well. The Mercury minivan was smaller than the Ford and better looking. Then they move it to the Windstar/Freestar chassis which was the final nail in that coffin. The last Cougar (based on the Contour?Mystique) was the last unique Mercury model and it outsold all other two door coupes...but they let it die on the vine, with no significant changes or upgrades.

    I have always liked Mercury as a brand, but there is no saving it now. It was starved of product for too long, and it is the only remaining completely badge engineered American brand. If they had planned it like Saturn is now (American Opels), it could have survived. But Ford doesn't even have the money to make Ford and Lincoln grow. There's nothing left over to make Mercury back into the sign of the Cat or an outlet for European Fords or anything else. And Ford is solving the dealership dilemma as well. There are no remaining standalone Mercury or Lincoln-Mercury dealerships. The end when it comes will be with nary a whimper.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    The Mercury minivan was smaller than the Ford and better looking.

    Was that a Nissan design/built van?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,458
    It was the same as the Nissan Villager of the time but I am pretty sure it was built in the US in a FOMOCO plant.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,376
    On the question of dealerships, are there any stand alone Mercury dealerships? If not I would think it wouldn't be as bad for Ford to just drop Mercury and make them Lincoln dealerships.

    I will grant you the very first thing that would happen would be dealers screaming for cheaper, higher volume Lincolns which would be a disaster since Lincoln had already been cheapened too much.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Not a problem. All LM dealerships have been/are being folded into Ford dealerships. Soon there will be no need for Mercury and no protest when it fades out.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,560
    On the question of dealerships, are there any stand alone Mercury dealerships? If not I would think it wouldn't be as bad for Ford to just drop Mercury and make them Lincoln dealerships.

    I don't think there ever were stand-alone Mercury dealerships, because in the past, Lincoln was always a low volume brand, and I don't think a standalone Lincoln dealership would work. Back in the 50's for example, I don't think Lincoln ever sold more than 20-30K cars. Mercury really wasn't a high volume brand either, until 1949. From 1939-48, it was always outsold by Chrysler, Olds, Buick, and Pontiac. Some years DeSoto would outsell it as well. And DeSoto dealers, as well as Chrysler dealers, also sold Plymouths to help boost their sales. So I dunno if Mercury would've made it without a companion in the showroom.

    1949-51 is what really put Mercury on the map as a fairly high-volume brand, but the cars started getting bigger and heavier at precisely the wrong time. 1957 was a down year for everybody except Chrysler divisions and Rambler, and 1958 was out and out recession. 1959 was a recovery year, but the focus was on economy and efficiency, with an increasing public backlash against the horsepower wars and overstyled, oversized cars...yet Mercury was stupid enough to make them even bigger than the year before! They ended up being one of the few makers, along with DeSoto and Edsel, to have lower sales in 1959 than in 1958. And considering where DeSoto and Edsel went, maybe that was an omen for Mercury?

    Mercury pretty much retreated to being just a fluffed up Ford in 1961, with deeply slashed prices, smaller engines, and smaller, lighter cars. And that's pretty much where they stayed, right up through today. It worked well for them for awhile, especially in the 1970's when hedonism was all the rage, and they had that Junior Lincoln look going for them. While they never seriously challenged Chevy or Ford for top spot, and Olds, Buick, and Pontiac always outsold them, the 70's were actually Mercury's most popular years. That's when Lincolns got really popular too, especially with cars like the Mark IV and Mark V, which regularly outsold the Eldorado. Cadillac made up for it with the volume Deville models, which tended to outsell the Town Coo-peys and Town Sedans by a wide margin.

    Still, even in the 70's, I always remembered the ads touting Lincoln-Mercury, and never just Lincoln or Mercury by itself. I guess it was kinda like Chrysler-Plymouth?
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,376
    Yeah, that's certainly the case around here.

    I remember when they killed Plymouth we actually had a stand alone Plymouth dealer where I grew up and where a lot of my family still is. They added Chrysler and later went to Dodge before the place disappeared. It was one of those tiny family dealerships in a downtown. The family sold it to someone who built a big place out on the highway.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    The Villager/Quest twins were indeed built by Ford in Ohio. The drivetrain is mostly Nissan (and mostly Japanese at that). A lot of the interior was Ford, including some lousy ALPS switches from Michigan, iirc.

    I liked the exterior styling of the Villager a little bit more, but it's a minivan, so how much more stylish could it be?

    We went with the Quest in '99 in large part because the drivetrain warranty was 5/60 instead of the Mercury's 3/36. Turns out we didn't need it but ....
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,560
    I remember when they killed Plymouth we actually had a stand alone Plymouth dealer where I grew up and where a lot of my family still is.

    Wow, I never knew they actually had those. Up through 1959, they usually had Plymouth-Dodge, Plymouth-DeSoto, or Plymouth-Chrysler/Imperial dealerships. There was actually one conglomerate about 5 miles up the road from me that sold Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto/Chrysler/Imperial...that must've been rare at the time.

    In 1960, Chrysler changed their structure, combining divisions into Chrysler-Plymouth-DeSoto, and leaving Dodge on their own. That year, Dodge expanded their lineup into the Dart series, which mimicked the Plymouths model for model, and the uplevel Matador/Polara, which sort of fell into the same bracket as DeSoto and the cheaper Chrysler Windsor. DeSoto went away just a few months into the 1961 model year, leaving Chrysler-Plymouth in that division. Well, Imperial, too, but most people never accepted it as a separate brand, like Cadillac or Lincoln.

    What timeframe did that standalone Plymouth dealer finally add Chrysler? I could see a standalone Plymouth dealer working back in the 50's or 60's, but as the 70's wore on, it would've been difficult. Dodge would usually get their own version of whatever new platform came out, but Plymouth would usually only get a version of the cheaper models. For instance, there never was a Plymouth to compete with the Monte Carlo...that was left to the Chrysler Cordoba and Dodge Charger SE/Magnum and later Mirada. Plymouth also didn't get a version of the uplevel Diplomat/LeBaron, although in 1982 the Gran Fury moved to that platform. By then it was little more than a copcar/taxi, though.

    In 1979, Plymouth only had two models! The Horizon and the Volare. They put on the illusion of being a full lineup though by bringing out different names, like Roadrunner and Duster on the Volare platform, and selling Mitsubishi-sourced cars like the Sapporo and Champ. 1980 wasn't much better. They added the R-body Gran Fury, which was basically a stripped-down St. Regis/Newport, and intended to sell to the same type of market that would buy stripper Impalas and base LTD's. Basically, taxis and copcars.

    When the K-car came out, Plymouth seemed to have a future, but even here, Dodge usually got all the permutations, while at C-P they'd put Plymouth names on the cheap models and Chrysler names on the nicer ones.
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJPosts: 10,376
    I am trying to remember the history of that place. It was indeed at one point at very least a Plymouth-DeSoto place because I remember the DeSoto wagon in the showroom when I was a kid. If I recall correctly when DeSoto closed up they went straight Plymouth. He used to advertise that he was the oldest Plymouth dealership in the country. This was technically true but there were only maybe 6 Plymouth dealers to compete with. If you counted Chrysler-Plymouth it was a different story.

    I know by 1983 they had added (or brought back) Chrysler because by dad bought a Fifth Avenue there that year. (That was one tough car to kill - probably had 200K on it when he sold it.) He must have added Chrysler in the 70s but I can't remember now.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    I bought my Sable from small Lincoln-Mercury dealership in Fremont, CA. I enjoyed bringing my car there for maintenance because it has that small, family owned dealership feeling (more friendly and paying more attention to customers). When my car was up to 90K miles service last year I learned that they shut it down because (unprofitable) and transferred all customers to Fremont Ford-Mazda, which is called now Fremont Ford-Lincoln-Mercury-Mazda. Well it is huge dealership and Lincolns are mixed with Fords in the showroom even though Mazda has separate everything - separate showroom, separate service advicers. So much for “American luxury”, sad.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Chrysler should do a magic trick and make Plymouth reappear. Use Plymouth as a channel to sell non-Chrysler built vehicles such as the Nissan built small car and the Chery built small car.

    Mercury can justify it's existence if Ford stops neglecting it.
    Provide Mercury with -
    Cougar, a version of the Mustang with different body and touring-performance emphasis.
    Capri, a 5 door hatch and a convertible versions of the Euro Focus when the Ford merges the Euro and US platforms with the new models. Make the body styles unique to Mercury offer sedan, coupe and wagon versions at Ford.
    Milan
    Montego (Sable)
    Mariner (small SUV)
    possibly a minivan type crossover like S-Max or C-Max.

    No new, unique platforms required.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    No new platforms, but lots of startup $ needed to get that lineup fully going. Ford is dancing as fast as it can to get already existing Ford models to Ford stores here (Fiesta, new Focus, Kuga, etc.) and it will be a few more years before they are in place. To try to do the same for Mercury, which is becoming largely a useless brand, is likely beyond their capability. Sad, but corporate screwups and hubris have killed many a brand.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Mercury to be euthanized by 2012

    Not that it matters since the Mayans said we'll all be gone then too. :)

    Mayan Year of Destiny - 2012
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Dang! It's bad enough we lost Pluto, now Mercury's going too!
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    Chrysler tried to set up standalone Plymouth dealers in 1957-58, but the effort sputtered when the corporation hit hard times during the 1958 recession.

    One reason that Dodge received the full-size Dart in 1960 was that dealers were upset over Chrysler taking away their Plymouth franchise. Chrysler ended up having two cars - the full-size Plymouth, and the Dodge Dart - competing directly with each other in the same price class.

    Over time, this intra-corporate competition killed Plymouth. Once Chrysler began competing in the lower price classes with cars that should have gone to Plymouth - Cordoba, LeBaron - it really was all over for Plymouth.

    As for Mercury - Ford needs Mercury to keep the Lincoln-Mercury dealers in business. Once the Lincoln lineup expands, and/or the dealers are merged with Ford dealers, then Mercury will go away.

    There were two Lincoln-Mercury dealers in the Harrisburg area, both owned by the same dealer group. About three weeks ago they were closed, and the Lincoln-Mercury franchise was picked up by a Ford dealer.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I believe standalone Lincoln-Mercury dealers are pretty much history. Ford has learned from GM's mistakes in shutting down Oldsmobile. By 2012, no one will care (dealers included) when Mercury is laid to rest.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    And how Licoln can compete with luxury marques if it is sold alongside blue-cllor Fords? My wife hates Ford and will not accept Ford but agrees on Mercury necause it looks less proletarian.
  • basiliskstbasiliskst Posts: 55
    The product plan just doesn't include new products for Mercury beyond about 2012 from everything I've seen. I'd guess we are relatively loyal Ford buyers, with several new FoMoCo products since graduating from college. More than 2/3s have been a Mercury. Our favorites include a 2002 Mercury Cougar still going strong at 96,000 miles, but with no clear replacement available from Ford. The newest one is a sleek 2008 Mercury Milan. I'd like Mercury to live long enough to add a Mariner hybrid with the new 2.5l to the list. I flirted with Chrysler in the 1990s, but they lost their styling magic. Ford does consistently produce driver's cars. My wife and daughter have the Mercury cars. I have a Ford Focus ST which is a stealth pocket rocket and exceptionally fun to drive, at any price. I like Mercury's more elegant styling and will miss getting Lincoln service with many of our family cars. I'm not a great candidate to go up market in price, not because of income. Mainline family cars are enough with other priorities. I like bang for the buck and Mercury has provided that over several vehicles, all notably reliable and with good service.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Ford can provide what was essentially a Mercury after 2012 merely by providing a special trim package for the corresponding Ford.

    Mercury is not needed any longer, especially with Lincoln folded into Ford dealerships. Keeping Mercury under the circumstances would be stupid. If Mercury had anything unique, then it would be different, but it does not.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    AP
    Ford Motor's June sales skid 27.9 percent
    Tuesday July 1, 12:28 pm ET
    By Tom Krisher and Dee-Ann Durbin, AP Auto Writers
    Ford Motor's June sales drop 27.9 percent as high gas prices, sluggish economy take toll.


    DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. says its U.S. sales tumbled 27.9 percent in June as high gas prices and a weak economy deepened the trouble facing the company.

    The company blames the decline on high gas prices and low consumer confidence that are sending buyers to the sidelines. Ford reports steep drops in sales of pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles.

    For the first half of the year, Ford's sales were down 14 percent compared with the year-ago period.

    Ford is the first automaker to report sales data Tuesday. Industry analysts expect June to be a dismal month for the industry with sales down double digits from last June.

    They also say Toyota Motor Corp. may take the U.S. sales lead from General Motors Corp.
  • I don't know about that. They say that car sales in general... even the compacts and subcompacts are sliding because people just don't want to spend the money. I'm sure that it's the same for import brands in this country. People are holding onto their older cars longer because in some cases a repair bill is cheaper than a new car payment.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Honda sales were actually up for June, and GM saw 20% increases for cars like Cobalt, Malibu and G6. If the market could adjust more quickly to what people want to buy now (gas savers), then sales would be even better. A repair bill is cheaper than a new car, but most people would prefer the new car. Driving an SUV and paying for the gas it requires is also cheaper than buying a new gas saver, but lots of people are doing that anyway. Nothing rational about the car market. If there was, the now pretend division of Mercury would be have already been long gone.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Is it time to consider changing title of this board to add Buick and Saturn? Or, should another board be started?

    WSJ front page (at top) article today says that GM may be considering dropping some brands. Buick and Saturn were mentioned. Article also said that Chevrolet and Cadillac are core brands. This probably means that they are safe.
  • Saturn could easily be lost and most of those models are already sold in other divisions. This is just my opinion but I think they should have made Oldsmobile what Saturn is today... a Euro influenced uplevel division. They were already heading in that direction with Olds since the late 90's. I'm sure its easier for the average person to fathom paying $25,000+ for an Oldsmobile which already had that uplevel brand recognition versus Saturn which up until the last 2 or 3 years was known for economy cars.

    Buick would be a big mistake to get rid of... not so much here but in China where the cars are selling like hot cakes. I guess they could just limit where the cars are sold.

    They're also talking about getting rid of Hummer and I wouldn't be surprised if GMC is considered.

    Whatever GM does, I think it wouldn't be a good idea to have simply Chevy and Cadillac since there would be a big product gap. At least one mid-range brand should be used to bridge that gap.

    What ever GM doe
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    What gap? Cadillac starts in the low 30s, and Chevy generally tops out around there (on the cars side of things, anyway). There's nothing to prevent GM from killing off weak brands here and retaining them in other markets.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Anyone know how much it cost GM to close Olds? The payoffs to the dealers must have been a good hunk of change.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    What gap? Cadillac starts in the low 30s, and Chevy generally tops out around there (on the cars side of things, anyway). There's nothing to prevent GM from killing off weak brands here and retaining them in other markets.

    GM could keep Buick in China, but kill it in US. The Lucerne could be rebadged and be the high-end Chevrolet.

    Pontiac has Solstice, which is low volume, and G8 for performance. Could these be rebadged to Chevrolet?

    But, what about Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers? Are there contractural agreements that legally require GM to provide all of these brands to the dealers? Same is true about Saturn dealers. Had each Saturn dealer spent a huge sum of money to get the franchise dealership rights?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Just stumbled on the number, courtesy of today's WSJ:

    "GM pulled the plug on the vaunted Oldsmobile brand in 2000. GM spent $1 billion alone in 2001 to buy out Olds dealers and wind down some plants. Litigation with hundreds of Olds auto dealers drug on for years and the final tally is estimated at close to $2 billion."

    Ford got $2.3 billion when it sold Jag and Land Rover to Tata. Makes you wonder if any was left over for the coffers.

    "Ford has weighed killing its Mercury brand for years as well, but as a recently retired Ford executive once said: “That could cost close to $2 billion, or you could keep losing a couple hundred million a year. Given how your bonus is paid for this year’s performance, it’s easier to kick the can to the next person." (WSJ registration link)
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    Buick/GMC/Pontiac is already the one division and their products do not overlap - right in the middle between Caddy and Chevrolet. And Saturn is just another name for Opel. If GM really want to get rid of one of its divisions - it has to shut down all three of Buick/GMC/Pontiac or get rid of another three divisions Opel/Vaux/Saturn. What GM exactly achieves by doing that?

    I know GM is stupid and normally does sturpid mistakes when makes decisions. SO who knows. may be in panic mode then want just bury a grave for themselves.

    I am sure Toyota and Honda will continue to add new brands, esp Honda since its Honda Accord tries now to outcompete Toyota Camry. Toyota is already thinking about making Prius separate brand.
  • bruce6bruce6 Posts: 29
    In what was generally a dismal month, Pontiac in June outperformed GM overall and had 4 models posting sales increases: G5, G6, Vibe, and Torrent. Pontiac's not going anywhere unless the winds shift dramatically.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    In a sense, Toyota already has three brands: Toyota, Lexus, and Scion. I believe they also have Daihatsu in Japan. Do they also have Hino trucks?
  • GM needs a midrange division for someone who wants something that looks and is trimmed fancier than a Chevy without paying the higher premium for a Cadillac. Cadillacs do start in the low 30's but once you add some options the price jumps quite higher. I think Pontiac would be a good candidate. The G8 is high performing, well equipped RWD car that starts well under that of the CTS. Pontiac would most likely have to modify the options/equipment of their cars a bit but it can be done. Like Bruce said... Pontiac is doing great for sales.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Trouble is, Pontiac names sound more like coordinates in "Battleship" than proper car names. I'd have called the V-8 version of the G8 a Bonneville and the V-6 version a Catalina.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Trouble is, Pontiac names sound more like coordinates in "Battleship" than proper car names. I'd have called the V-8 version of the G8 a Bonneville and the V-6 version a Catalina.

    Could of had a Bonneville rather than a G8.

    There are other great Pontiac names that are waiting to be used for appropriate vehicles - GTO, TransAm, Grand Prix, LeMans.

    Pontiac could be the performance division.

    Strictly on phonetics, speaking the word Pontiac, is strong and dynamic. Speaking the word Buick is sluggish and almost sounds like a burp.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Mercury is a great name as well, but it hasn't helped this pretend division lately.

    Buick may be destined for China only, Pontiac can survive now with the switch back to cars.

    Hummer and GMC can go, and good riddance. Hummer is totally out of place now, and GMC, like Mercury, is a pretend division. Saturn can do alright selling Opels. Their sales are down mostly because GM is no longer unloading boatloads of cheap and crude cars on fleets.
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    The future of Mercury looks like the future of Ford and Chrysler. Zero.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    They butchered Pontiac long ago...the Aussies had to come in for life support but I'll wager it's over for Pontiac. G8 becomes a top-line Chevy.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    Saturn is history and so is Merc. Let's see how long into the summer this decision takes. I'd say August. Looking at credit markets and gas price alone, these divisions are goners!

    Regards,
    OW
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Excuse me, but Pontiac sales are way up and it has nothing to do with the G8.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    That's right but Pontiac is still on the block and G cars would turn into Chevys.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918
    GM needs a midrange division for someone who wants something that looks and is trimmed fancier than a Chevy without paying the higher premium for a Cadillac.

    How do you think GM ended up with 8 divisions? They tried to create a special brand for each consumer group and to compete with other brands. What is actually happening is the GM brands are competing against one another. Saturn can't gain traction because of lack of infrastructure and duplication of products. (i.e., It's easier for someone to buy a Chevy Malibu than a Saturn Aura since there are more Chevy dealers then Saturn dealerships). At the same time, i think they are doing the right thing with Saturn and can simply move those products to Pontiac where they would have more exposure. Change the names to match the Pontiac nomenclature but keep the same idea and turn Pontiac into what Saturn was intended to do.

    It's fun playing CEO from the sidelines! :)
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Change the names to match the Pontiac nomenclature but keep the same idea and turn Pontiac into what Saturn was intended to do.

    Actually, GM morphed Saturn into something it was not intended to do.

    Original plan was for Saturn to compete with Civic and Corolla.

    Being mindful of GMC/Buick/Pontiac dealerships, GM will probably keep GMC and Pontiac and cut Buick. GMC still a viable brand name and is needed for those who want to upscale from Chevrolet to Professional Grade.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918
    Why ruin GMC/Buick/Pontiac? If you eliminate Pontiac, you leave GMC/Buick with no small cars and an average buyer age of 70. Keep GMC/Buick/Pontiac and simply replace the current Pontiac lineup as their product changeovers are due. Also Saturn needs more exposure for it to be successful. Adding more dealerships is not an option. You already have a plan in place to share platforms globally, which saves R&D money. No reason to bag that good idea. heck GM did a similar thing after they eliminated Oldsmobile. The Lucerne and Lacrosse were simply the next version of the Intrigue and Aurora.

    Saturn lost its way over a decade ago. Now it's just another GM brand. have they sold over 200k units recently? I know they sold that many S-series back in the early 90s (per year).
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    The Lucerne and Lacrosse were simply the next version of the Intrigue and Aurora. Not so. The Lucerne and LaCrosse are merely updated versions of the LeSabre/Park Avenue and the Century/Regal. Even though they were platform mates with the Buicks, the Aurora and Intrigue just went away.

    I still say GMC's days are numbered. They do not offer a single model that is not a clone of a Chevy, and all their vehicles get mediocre mpg. Given the decline in pickup sales, it makes no sense for GM to continue a badge-engineered division of gas hogs.

    Yes, Saturn could be absorbed by Pontiac. Or go away for all its doing for GM's bottom line. Buick could still be king in China (they'd do better here if the Chinese models were sold here).
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,664
    ...or GM coul change their name to GMW to protect the terrible management!

    Ford could become Fordsan and Chrysler could become Hyundsler. Either way, there are mergers coming in the long run.

    Regards,
    OW
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yes, there will be mergers. And brand deaths. Remember, the Brits used to have a viable auto industry too. Third world manufacturers will be the next big thing, and one day in the future Toyota will topple too.
This discussion has been closed.