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Comments
Took a ride in an Acura RL yesterday and it rides so much better, but for $40,000 it should. Soon as I got back in my Azera, I immediately noticed the bouncing/wallowing over any road imperfections which resulted in the impact harshness in the seats. This is with the 040 strut replacements.
Would be nice if Hyundai will permit installing 2008 strut assembly on 2007's if the 040 replacement did not work.
Any of you noticed that there no longer is that plastic cover over the mountings of the front struts? :confuse:
I have an '07 Azera Limited, and have had this nagging problem since it had about 5K on it (now has 18K). Everytime I first run the car (first couple of miles) there is a persistent vibration in the car at 45mph. It seems to go away as the car warms up. I've had it into my Carmel, IN Hyundai dealer about 12 times for this and I've also registered this problem with Hyundai USA... nothing in the way of a fix thus far. They have done the usual replaced the tires and wheels, rebalanced, etc... nothing seems to help. The dealer is giving me lip service and hoping I go away - if you know what I mean.
This car was built in Dec. '06 - any thoughts??
December the 6th as I recall!
So even with your tires properly aired up to at least 37-38 PSI COLD,
you are still experiencing these vibrations ?
I thought that you said that running more air pressure had cured the problem? :confuse:
Is the car left out in the cold overnight?
The tall wheels and short tires require heftier sidewalls which will deform a bit overnight as the car sits, and it takes a handful of miles to warm things up and allow the sidewalls to shape up...
Since I bought the "tires for life" program from the dealer - I'm probably stuck with these types of tires and unable to jump to a tire with a stronger sidewall rating.
Thanks for the follow up.
Have you been to an independent shop that has the Hunter GSP 9700 Balancing System
and at least had that left front tire and wheel checked out on that machine? :confuse:
It might be that there is a problem with that one Michelin.
Evidently there were problem tires produced by Michelin as reported by others!
Since the dealer replaced my -041 struts with -040's, should the marks all be the same color? All of them are a sort of lime green.
thanks and I appreciate any advice you may be able to give.
Struct hollow thump is also slowly returning in the replacement structs. Looks like I will not keep the Azera very long after all.
She did not have any answers, but said she would contact some people and ask them to contact her if they do come up with a solution.
The klunking has returned and the car still wallows or bounces terribly on dips or rises in the road surface. It is not the car, it is the design of the suspension.
Told her that I believe a new strut/coil spring/whatever system will fix it - if Hyundai wants to do it. Other cars do not do it. Even the Kia Amanti does not do it.
I have a 2006 Azera and the only problem I have with the suspension is harshness on broken pavement at low speeds. I still have the original struts in my car.
I do not find the suspension to be a problem for the conditions around here - which is potholed, cold patched, crowned and truck grooved pavement at 55MPH. The car is great on the freeways at 75+.
Frankly, the car is near perfect for the conditions I drive on. The Jag X-type we traded for the Azera was simply awful on our roads, so a stiffer suspension is not always the answer.
This is same guy who rode in car before, but this time I will take him on a different route.
There are three problems. (1) Clunking noise, (2) rolling/bouncing/wallowing at low speeds and (3) same as 2, but on all speeds.
My major complaint is with number 3, although number 2 is present. It becomes very annoying after about 15-20 minutes. It occurs on all roads where the roadway is not level, e.g. evern minor dips and crests.
Problem may be getting worse as car (struts/coils) age. I replaced the front struts per TSB and it was better for awhile, but wallowing has returned.
Test drive one with over 4,000 miles on it if you can.
Any 2008 owners with a similar noise problem? I'll take it back and push the issue, but if they can't fix it I'll trade it in on an Avalon. It's a great car except for this noise but I can't stand to drive it.
I must say that I like the car & enjoy driving it. Yes there are many complains about the front end but they seem more serious in the older models. I had many SUV & trucks before and a big change to now drive a car but for the $ I found the Azear a great buy.
They did replace the struts on my 2007, but within a few months the problem returned.
The Regional Service Manager is to drive it on the 17th, but he drove it once before and said it is normal. This time we're going on a different road.
Might try Hyundai-Forums.com and the Azera thread there. Lots more on suspension.
Other than the ride, it is a fantastic car and has more amenities than Acura, Lexus and Infiniti.
I wish I could drive an 2007 to see the difference. My 2008 does not wallowing/bouncing at all on rough roads.
So at this point I will not comment any further on this "noise".
I had 5 sets of new tires installed while they tried to figure out the problem and had gone through all type of balancing and still had the issue.
When they finally gave up they tried to convince me that this was the way a 30k car is supposed to ride! There was no assistance from their corporate offices. Hyundai's corporate office sided with their people in a letter I received that stated “after further investigation of the issue your vehicle drive and performs like same vehicles (Azera’s).”
While seeking legal assistance I happened upon this information that resolved the issue “Steering Wheel Shake and Front-end Noise “– TSB -07-50-007 is a Hyundai technical bulletin that addresses the issue. TSB-07-50-007 – Suspension/Struts. The part need to fix the issue is Part no. 54611-3L041.
My issue has been resolved and I can say that it is now a pleasure to drive the car.
I’ve invited the Regional Rep and mechanic team that could not resolve the problem to now test drive my vehicle and to date none have taken me up on the offer.
I will give credit where credit is due and say that Hyundai has stepped up in the market, but is lacking in the way of customer service!
Good luck to you all
The part need[ed] to fix the issue is Part no. 54611-3L041."
If you are going to make such a statement, at least try to get the facts straight!
Your first post huh?
1.) TSB 07-50-007 is not titled "Steering Wheel Shake and Front-end Noise"
but Front Shock Absorber Replacement - "Hollow" Knocking Noise.
2.) Changing shocks will not stop "the shaking/vibration in the steering wheel."
If you indeed had this problem, it was not cured by installing different shocks!
3.) "The part need[ed] to fix the issue is Part no. 54611-3L041" is completely incorrect!
The correct part number as stated on TSB 07-50-007 is 54611-3L040.
Oh yes my friend, I had the problem, and after the last service to address the issue the struts were replaced and “MY” problem was resolved!
I’m all ears! What do you think was causing my issue (Shaking/Vibrating Steering Wheel)? I await your next post!
the issue the struts were replaced and “MY” problem was resolved!"
First, I am happy for you that after so many trips to the dealer, that someone finally corrected your problem.
But, it doesn't matter with regard for your "issue (Shaking/Vibrating Steering Wheel.)"
Good shocks, bad shocks or even no shocks at all, you can and
will have this problem if your tires are bad or out-of-balance.
Just because they said they changed your shocks to the TSB mandated 54611-3L040
parts did not by itself cure the shaking and vibrating steering wheel problem.
During that same trip to the dealer when the TSB work was performed, they either switched
wheels and tires or rebalanced them again without you knowing that they had done this.
Again, it is good that you were able to finally get your problem corrected.
I hopefully like everyone else reading this post that shares this issue, would like to know the “true” reason why we have this problem. We have been lied to and mislead by our service advisors. Most of us have contacted Hyundai's corporate office only to be led back to the deanships service center. All I know is that once the struts were replaced the problem went away.
You’d mentioned that they probably just rebalanced the tires and probably didn’t replace the struts. I took that into account and marked both struts, each with a different mark, before dropping it off. When the car was ready I took it for a quick test drive and pulled over and inspected the struts . They had been changed! I returned and gave them the thumbs up and immediately took it to Discount Tire where I had the tires rotated and balanced. I wanted to be sure that it was resolved. After Discount was finished it still drove great!
By the way the tires on my car are not the originals. They have been replaced a total of 4 times with less then 18k on the car!
I’ve read another post that there are others who had their struts replaced and after a few thousand miles the problem came back. If it happens to me then I will have to return back to the dealership and start the process again. I’ll just hope and pray that the problem never returns!
Whenever I get in an equitable position on my Azera it’s GONE!
Go back and read my post for content this time!
Are you trying to put words in my mouth? I most certainly did not say that!
What I did say was that simply replacing your original shocks with the TSB mandated 54611-3L040
shocks did not and would not correct your complaint of steering wheel vibration and shaking.
I said that while your car was there getting the TSB done, the problem was
not corrected by that work alone that was done at that time by the agency.
Did you go out and test drive it to see if the steering wheel vibration and shaking
was gone before you then took it to Discount Tire and had the tires rebalanced?
NOW it turns out that the tires being out-of-balance was indeed the problem!
"I returned and gave them the thumbs up and immediately took it
to Discount Tire where I had the tires rotated and balanced."
It doesn't matter how many times the tires were changed.
While it is true that many have had bad tires from Michelin, in your case you evidently
never got a good set installed and or they were never properly balanced.
As I have said, changing shocks will not and can not correct your complaint.
You also stated “in your case you evidently never got a good set installed and or they were never properly balanced.” I find that hard to believe. You’re speaking about the initial set, the two sets the dealership replaced and the set I had installed by a Discount Tire. In all there were 3 sets of Michelin’s and a set of Goodyear’s put on my car. My luck could not have been that bad where all the tires placed on my car were bad or even 1 or 2 in each set!
My car was in and out of Hyundai’s service department numerous times for balancing, which was clearly a waste to time. They (Hyundai) took it to a Toyota dealership where it was force balanced and that didn’t resolve the issue.
When they switched out the tires the last time they subcontracted Discount Tire to perform the work and the problem was still there. I took my car to another tire shop hoping they could identify the problem and they tried. They too thought it was a balancing issue or a tire(s) out of spec. They gave it their best, but they were unable to resolve the problem.
Two weeks after having the tires switched Hyundai replaced the struts and the problem miraculously went away!
In your last post you stated “changing shocks will not and can not correct your complaint.” They replaced the struts.
You’re quick to point out what should not have fixed my issue. So I ask What do you think was causing my issue? Unless you can come up with something other then the tires, balancing, rotors or alignment there’s no need to reply.
In closing, I thank you for the information you’ve shared.
I will however point this out to you:
"In your last post you stated 'changing shocks will not and can not correct your complaint.'
They replaced the struts."
No.Wrong again.
They did not replace the struts. They replaced the shocks only. Read your warranty repair receipt.
What was probably causing your complaint in the first place was an out-of-round tire, an out-
of-balance tire or one or more tires not properly matched to the wheel it was mounted on.
I sure would not use that agency again for any balance problems!
If the work was done on a GSP9700, the technician did not know what he was doing!
I have seen this happen before many times.
Had this work been done properly the first time, you'd have been spared all those trips back to the dealer.
Nothing beats a GSP9700 when it is used properly by a knowledgeable technician.
Go to the Hunter Engineering website and read all about that balancer.
Whether it's the thunking issue on the Sonata, the front suspension issues with the Azera, or whatever, I do not think there's another forum where people are treated with such disrespect and rudeness as with fellow Hyundai owners.
To be fair, there are a lot of fellow owners who are supportive, too, but a lot of them are sympathetic because they have the same issues (although not all).
Here's a hint everyone: When someone says there is something wrong with their car, try to help them, don't automatically assume that they're imagining it, don't accuse them of whining, don't tell them to accept a defect because it's not a big deal, and most of all, don't accuse the customer of being wrong and rush to the defense of Hyundai.
Hyundai's problems with their thunking in the Sonata and suspension issues with the Sonata are well known, and many, many people suffer from these issues.
Get realistic, and quit being so brand loyal just because you happen to own a Hyundai. Hyundai's not perfect, so quit ganging up on people experiencing problems with their vehicles, especially when Hyundai offers lack of decent customer support.
I don't know about you, but my car friends thought I was crazy to buy a Hyundai, so I am defensive about it anyway. However, I still believe in pointing out that it has a problem which Hyundai should fix.
Professional reviewers noted this problem when they tested it, but I did not learn of it until after I bought - so much for Consumer Reports testing. BTW, their "reviews" in current publications are based on the cars they test drove, which may have been as much as 4-5 years ago.
Bottom line, yes, it does bounce, but it is built that way to deliver a "soft" ride.
Interestingly we also went for a ride in a "new" '07 that was still sitting on the lot. No difference in the ride, probably a little worse actually.
RSM called someone and they reported that there is no change in the suspensions for 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 with the exception of now using the -040 struts. He also said there is no new strut or anything else on the 2008/2009 per his sources.
One thing I noticed is that the bounce up and down and side to side seems worse when only one person is in the car. Not sure, but it seems three adult guys tend to dampen the bounce.
I am in the Hyundai files to be notified if they come up with a solution.
I still believe that if enough of us individually contact Hyundai corporate offices, we may encourage them to come up with a fix, even on a shared cost basis.
BTW, they are expecting one Genesis in three months.
I posted (somewhere) that there is indeed a new and different part number for the 2008 shocks.
It is 54611-3L640
Haven't gotten around to asking the parts guy if there is a different part number for MY 2009.
I'm getting almost to the point where I am tired of this entire situation.
I've even contacted Bilstein and they couldn't care less about our situation either.
"At this time, there are no plans for Bilstein to develop shocks for the Hyundai Azera that I know of."
What a shame!
As said ad-infinitum by Hyundai, the suspension was DESIGNED for a soft ride. That not only includes the spring rate and shock valving but the overall architecture of the suspension.
Most car manufacturers bolt the struts the to the axle hub backplate. The strut is a solid bolted connection from the body of the car to the axle and there is no up/down/left/right flexibility other than the stiffness of the strut itself.
In the Azrea, Hyundai went another route. They connect the strut to the lower control arm thru a wishbone extension instead of connecting it to the axle hub. And to “introduce” additional soft riding characteristics they connected the strut to the control arm with rubber bushings, which mitigated that direct connecting “stiffness”.
I totally agree you can improve a cars suspension with aftermarket struts. However those improvements are more of a fine tuning than a total make over which is what we’re talking about here. Yes I agree again you probably could “fine tune” the Azera to lessen the wallowing but at what cost, in both money and suspension characteristics . as we all know suspensions are compromises.
Also I believe if Hyundai went to the effort of designing new struts and replacing them for nothing, would it not make sense to kill the two birds (the clunking and the wallowing) with one stone? From what I read Hyundai did make characteristic changes to the strut to improve the suspension. But a strong argument can be made that it is the architectural design of the suspension that defines just how far the engineers can improve on.
As I’ve said before- it is what it is. The wallowing issue is a personal thing, there’s time when it bothers me too. The car is not perfect but neither is my Lexus which was $10 grand more... and I enjoy driving the Azera more... the Lexus has absolutely no character.
"At this time, there are no plans for Bilstein to develop shocks for the Hyundai Azera that I know of."
That is understandable. There is no real market considering the number of Azeras out there with buyers who would spend around $2000 or more on cars that are still under warranty for a problem that is buyer specific. I venture to say that even if there was a strut that could fix the problem and still maintain a relatively soft ride which the demographic market shows the buyers want. But I think to fix the wallowing you'd have a 263HP buckboard.
Hyundai has every right and probably would void any front end warrany work (and then some) if customers decided to start changing out aftermarket parts and then come back with a problem. You would be voiding anything and everything connected to the suspension. Replacing struts it not like replacing brake pads. If some believe different... go for it. At least if my struts leak or fail within the 5years 60K miles, Hyundai will replace them... for FREE.
Carolinabob is going the right route, thru Hyundai's service department. It may not fix his issue but he'll still keep his 5 year warranty.
And I agree with snaglepus... we've beaten this horse to death, feet in the air and the maggots are setting in.
Fini
around $2000 or more on cars that are still under warranty for a problem that is buyer specific."
"$2000 or more" for replacement shocks only, not struts? No way. Maybe $200 each.
As far as there not being a market for replacement shocks, I disagree.
How many Azeras have been sold here on the North American continent? More than 40,000?
Many of the people driving Azeras that are not happy with their rides are
not here to complain and do not even know about these type forums.
How many sales would make it worth their while?
Watch and see, some company will make a good replacement shock. I simply prefer Bilsteins.
1. No way? If it was a simple matter of 2 shocks it would have been done by Hyundai. The ONLY current struts/shocks replacement is $1200 WITHOUT the labor. This $200 point of view suggests that it only takes a set of $200 shocks, but is also says tacitly, Hyundai deliberately and on purpose chose not to fix the wallowing with the TSB shock change... just because? Hyundai may be a lot of things but I don't think their stupid.
2. NO $200 SHOCK "FIX" WILL "FIX" THE WALLOWING OF THIS SUSPENSION BECAUSE IT WAS DESIGNED TO DO THAT. Without destroying the whole cornering characteristic of the car... for the worse.
3. The suspension has 4 corners. Just changing the front shocks without the back will introduce either a lot of understeer or a lot of oversteer... depending. This will CERTAINLY change the whole cornering characteristics. Firmer front struts/shocks without changing the rears will cause this car to oversteer... something engineers do not like to put into cars for the general public. How much oversteer? Again, depends. Premature oversteering at points that are not mapped into the ESC system is not a good thing. Of course you could put 40lbs of air in the rear and 10 in the front to compensate! As all racers know spring and shock rates are part of the formula for plotting over and understeer.
4. Aftermarketeers need to deal with how changing the front shocks will affect the Electronic Stability Control which was DESIGNED (there's that word ) again, for the factory system. Yes the ESC IS part of the suspension and an integral part of its handling characteristics.
5. Then there's the liability factor for any aftermarket manufacturer designing a suspension that does not modify the ESC to compensate for the changes. The days of just changing shocks on cars with ESC is gone. It's gone the same way as changing ignition timing, idle control and such. But lets be clear here. I'm not talking of a minor "tweaking" of a suspension. I'm talking here of the changes that would be needed due to the design of the suspension that was designed to wallow AKA a soft ride. Of course disabling the ESC altogether is always an option.
The ESC is mapped into a computer that we can not change. A lot of engineering and R&D would be needed on a car by car basis for any aftermarket to put out a system that really works... and that all takes money... and accept their liability for some screw ball who crashed because his ESC didn't work!
6. Hyundai and all car manufaturers for that matter will void their warranty if you make any major part replacments and do not use their "genuine" parts. And why would you not use their parts for FREE. It's also only a matter of time before car makers will take some sort of stand on any damaging liability concerning the functionality of their ESC with aftermarket parts. Probably when the first screw ball sues them.
=========================================================
As far as there not being a market for replacement shocks, I disagree.
How many Azeras have been sold here on the North American continent? More than 40,000?
Many of the people driving Azeras that are not happy with their rides are
not here to complain and do not even know about these type forums.
Yes I agree there are a lot of cars and I do understand the fact that either side of this argument is just speculation on our parts?
Let me be clear on what I wrote:
There is no real market considering the number of Azeras out there with buyers who would spend around $2000 or more on cars that are still under warranty for a problem that is buyer specific.
So the question is just REALLY how many buyers WILL ACTUALLY spend $2000 to change the suspension and void their 5 year warranty! How many people would put that kind of money into an Azera and essentially wipe out their bang for the buck reason for purchasing the car in the first place. Or how many people will spend $2000 on their 6 year out of warranty Azera.... that is if the Azera is still worth $2000? LOL. Is there enough people with these demograpsh to make it profitable to engineer, manufacture and market the "fix", the key word profitable?
I say no and could be all wrong. But I WON'T be one who goes the aftermarket route, I'd sell or trade the car in for want that doesn't wallow.
IMHO the Azera buyers got the "best" fix considering cost/benefit with the TSB shock change.
P.S. In case some people may think so... no I don't work for Hyundai nor trying to defend Hyundai in any way on the suspension issue. Just trying to call 'em like I see 'em.
Also, the fix per the TSB with new shocks does not last.
I guess I have not conveyed my interpretation well enough of the Azera’s rather unusual suspension design, so I will capitalize and bold for effect: THE SUSPENSION WAS ENGINEEERD AND DESIGNED TO GIVE A SOFT WALLOWING RIDE. THERE IS NO EASY FIX WITHOUT THE REVAMPING OF THE ENTIRE SUSPENSION $$$$$$$$$$$. Any attempt short of replacing the entire system would be like putting lipstick on a pig.
I've tried to approach this from an engineering perspective focusing on the hinged strut connected to the lower control arm thru bushings. A logical approach to facilitate a soft wallowing ride, the objective the engineers were looking for.
A defensive argument is not needed to understand the bushings alone offer lateral, axial and vertical flexing of the strut to body "rigidity". This is consistent with the complaints being posted. This type of design is not the way almost all other companies do it. Why they went this route would be just speculation and anybodies guess... could be a cheaper way to go.
I can’t comment on the quality of the TSB struts. Accepting the TSB “fix” strut worked but “do not last” certainly implies poor quality. If that is so and Hyundai will not fix it, then for sure we all will have a problem. If so I've bought my last Hyundai. If that is your case and there is definitly something wrong with the TSB shocks, like failing a bounce test, leaking shocks or sagging springs then you are in your right to expected Hyundai to do the right thing.
Having said it's been my experience with car manufacturers shocks go under "normal wear and tear" and they won't replace them with any "normal" milage accumulated. Toyota got me on that one on $600 apiece tunable Supra. I would expect Hyundai to be the same.
Without any inference of approval on my part, Hyundai would not be the first to leave customers high and dry. BMW, Mercedes and Honda are experts at it and are on my “never buy again” list... compainies that made twice as much per car than Hyundai made on my Azera. I’ve “flipped the bird” to better companies than Hyundai.
Thanks.
There is no essential difference between the 040, 041 and 640 shocks. The numbers relate to the year of manufacture and not a change in the design of the shocks. The 040's were used in the TSB to eliminate the "noise" caused by the 041. The ride/wallowing/bouncing, etc. would not be affected.
All three shocks are gas-filled, so there is no change in '08. Also, there is no significant change in the suspensions between '06, '07 and '08.
The 040 and 640 are "identical."
The 2008 and 2009 will have the same suspension characteristics as the 2006 and 2007.
Bottom line: "The car is operating the way designed."
All in all, it is still a great car, but IMO, it should ride better for the class and price.
From what I have read, I am in for several visits with service managers saying it is my imagination and that the car is fine. If anyone has advice to help me avoid regular visits to the dealership (without any resolution) I would greatly appreciate it.
He contacted corporate HQ and the technical departments to get the information.
There is no essential difference between the 040, 041 and 640 shocks. The numbers relate to the year of manufacture and not a change in the design of the shocks. [Say What?] The 040's were used in the TSB
to eliminate the "noise" caused by the 041's. The ride/wallowing/bouncing, etc. would not be affected.
All three shocks are gas-filled, so there is no change in '08. Also, there is no significant
change in the suspensions between '06, '07 and '08. The 040 and 640 are "identical."
The 2008 and 2009 will have the same suspension characteristics as the 2006 and 2007.
Bottom line: "The car is operating the way designed."
One wonders if this "corporate HQ and the technical department" person has
viewed the fine picture that is posted over on the better forum showing
the differences in appearance between the two shocks? :surprise:
Has anyone any idea who these persons are? :confuse:
Maybe we could ask them why Hyundai went to all that trouble to change not only
the front shocks on 10/20/07, but also at that same time, the rear shocks too.
Oh well, it seems many corporate types mostly speak with forked tongue. :sick:
Still hopeful something permanent can be done.
If you are successful and I really hope that you are, we will be calling you Mr. Bob.
I live within easy commuting distance of that place, and if you are
successful, I'll drive over there myself and bug 'em for sure.
As a side note, I have removed one of my rear shocks.
I had sent away for some Bilsteins that were supposed to fit, but they did not.
I left the stock right-rear shock off hoping I might find some other sustitute that will fit, and I tried bouncing that rear side that has no shock, and it acts the same as my front end does with the 040s.
That's how bad my front end has become with those TSB replacements that now
have only 6,500 miles. :lemon: They are just plain worn out, and I doubt that
my front end would feel all that different if they were not there at all.
So we all wish you "good luck."
I don't really care how long they take to respond just so long as they do respond positively.