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What Keeps You Loyal To A Brand?

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Comments

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Their dealer service is some of the worst and their sales tactics are wretched here in MA. That has been my experience at three different dealerships. I don;t think the cars are THAT bad as I know a few people who've had them for years. Older ones are a common sight around here.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    You'll hate VWs.....because they are nothing like each other. VW has great driving dynamics, if you can get them on the road for a sustained length of time. Ford has average performance, but better than average repair records - up to 150,000 or so generally. Then they tend to start breaking down a bit more. Like a VW does from day one.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Before 1991, I had owned mostly Chevys, and some Fords. My father owned a couple of Chryslers. I found that after about 5-8 years these cars seemed to be showing their age (engines would start to loose power, and parts would become loose, or stop working all together). In 91 I bought my first Accord, and quickly found out that all cars are not created equal. The car just seemed to fit like it was made for me. Great driving feel, a great 4cylinder engine, and never seemed to get old and worn out. When I finally decided to get a new one (after 12 years) there was no doubt in my mind, it was going to be an Accord. Even if it looked like an Aztec.
    Well, maybe not if it looked like an Aztec, we have to draw the line somewhere. :D
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    And another one here. They have just lasted forever and have been fine driving experiences. They also tend to be leaders on environmental issues dating back as far as they have made cars.

    Um. er, Ford.... I was the owner of the notorious Windstall so I will admit to having that bias. You've no doubt heard all the stories of what those things were prone to - popping engine seals, melting transmissions, electrical glitches, etc. Well, all you have to do is mention something those pieces of (insert your expletive here) were prone to and mine had it. It was OK, not great but not awful, on reliability until it hit 80K. Then things started popping like mad.

    In a tiny bit of fairness to the vehicle the dealer was an idiot, which is to say that when teh first engine seal popped my intuition said replace all the seals because you've got the engine out and seals are a known issue. No such thing. "No they tested fine." And popped weeks later. Then the tranny melted to the tune of $1800.

    So on to corporate Ford since the dealer was offering no relief. They treated us like lepers! Arrogant, snotty people. They got me in a screaming match and my wife says "You're getting too worked up. Let me talk to them." Within two minutes they had her screaming louder than me. The last thing I remember her saying was "It's a good thing these things have such a good safety rating because I don't know when the next time it's gonna die in teh middle of the road with a couple of kids in it!"

    Until I start hearing something that says corporate Ford has changed their attitude they'll be getting my dollar. too abd because they've made, and still make, some attractive cars.

    On contrast, I had the Ody transmission crash. With virtually no discussion they paid for the entire replacement and rented me a vehicle while they did it. Ironically they rented me an Explorer....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Bought a Ridgeline RTL with Navigation for a friend Friday. Drove it home from the auction - have to say, the Air Conditioning was inadequate for the Southwest climate, even in May. Would hate to have to deal with it in August. Drove ok otherwise, but would not give it a pass as a truck. As a Minivan, it was fine. Except for the air. I have owned a Honda before, and it was great. This one disappointed me though, in design. :mad:
  • daysailerdaysailer Member Posts: 720
    I can't say that I'm "loyal" to a particular brand, the most vehicles of one manufacturer that I've had is 4 (Honda) followed by 3 Mazda and 2 Nissan/Datsun.

    I would say that I have a brand preference (Honda) but that does not hold sway if they do not offer the best vehicle for my needs at the time that I'm ready to buy. On point, I recently Purchased my first Subaru since none of the brands that I have owned offer a vehicle that is both suitable as a daily driver as well as utility use, including modest towing. Honda's smallest vehicle with a tow rating is the CRV which is too large for commuting and has an automatic transmission only. "Loyalty" can only go so far.

    Since I've owned 12 Japanese vehicles (of 6 manufacturers) vs 2 British, one German and one Italian (Vespa), It appears that I also have a national preference, but that is only because Japan has offered the most reliable vehicles over the past 35+ years. The VW GTI is an enticing choice today but I can't accept the risk that VW's reliability history suggests. Unfortunately, my own country has lead neither in automotive product reliability nor suitability. Pity!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I had a 1980 Mustang that wasn't so great (to be fair, nearly all cars of that vintage were poor) and then a 1991 Escort GT, also so-so.

    The latter had a good powertrain (Mazda sourced), but the interior fell apart bit by bit. It was OK for cheap wheels at the time, but I don't miss it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...to Cadillac and Buick:

    1968 Buick Special Deluxe
    1979 Buick Park Avenue
    1988 Buick Park Avenuw
    2005 Buick LaCrosse

    1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
    1989 Cadillac Brougham
    1994 Cadillac DeVille
    2002 Cadillac Seville STS

    ALL have been extremely reliable and a pleasure to drive. I need to look nowhere else for my automotive purchases.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I had a 4-way tie between Chevy (1980 Malibu, 1986 Monte Carlo, 1985 Silverado), Dodge (1969 Dart, 1968 Dart, 2000 Intrepid), Pontiac (1969 Bonneville, 1967 Catalina, 1976 LeMans) and Chrysler (1979 Newport, 1967 Newport, 1979 NYer 5th Ave).

    But, another 1979 New Yorker followed me home on Saturday, so that was the tie-breaker. :)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Are you going to be bringing your new acquisition to the Carlisle Mopar show in July?

    For me the others were:

    1979 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency
    1979 Ford LTD
    1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue
    1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
    1988 Ford LTD Crown Victoria LX
    1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I want to bring the "new" NYer to Carlisle because, if nothing else, its radio works, whereas the one in the "old" one is broken! The only thing I really want to do to it though, to be safe, is change the hoses. The lower radiator hose looked a bit iffy, and the heater hoses weren't the best looking things in the world, either! Oh, and it really does need a good wash and wax/buff job.

    Oh yeah, I forgot about my '88 LeBaron, which I bought off my uncle when I was married, and gave to the ex-wife when we split as part of the settlement. So of all the brands I've had, looks like Chrysler was in the lead, anyway. Actually, I think I mentally blocked out that LeBaron on purpose! :P
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Hmmm, I think for me it's Ford:

    1997 Escort
    1999 Expedition
    2002 Explorer
    2003 Focus

    We've had 3 Saturns ('03 L300, '04 VUE and '06 ION), 1 Honda and 1 VW in the past 10 years, along with the Fords.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Well, sure, but don't you have all 3 Saturns currently?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Correct .. all the Saturns are our current cars .. plus, my stepson has an '01 L200 that he bought and currently drives, so that makes us a 4 Saturn family.

    So, at the moment, we are loyal to Saturn for the following reasons:

    1) we qualify for the GM Supplier discount
    2) the plastic side panels .. which are going away with the new models
    3) the dealership experience .. cannot afford a Lexus; this is the best customer service I've ever had from a dealer

    (Gee, you'd think I could qualify for a 'frequent buyer' discount or something!)
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Absolutely! You should get the fleet rate!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    For me it's Buick:

    1965 Wildcat conv.
    1975 Apollo
    1988 Regal
    1979 Electra 225 coupe
    1999 P/A Ultra
    2004 Ranier
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Now THAT was a car, and THAT was a name for a car!!!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Now THAT was a car, and THAT was a name for a car!!!

    Yeah, I always liked those too. I think my favorite Electras are the mammoth '75-76 4-door hardtops, but I like the downsized '77-79 models too. Preferably with a 403. I think the '80-84 is a sharp looking car too, but by that time they killed all the good engines. You could get an Olds 350 in 1980 as an option (307 was standard), but from '81-84 you were limited to the 252 V-6, 307 V-8, or the Diesel 350.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Shouldn't they have quit calling it a "225" after GM sold the Buick chop-block to Kaiser-Frazier?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Actually they should've quit calling it 225 once it got longer than 225". That's what the 225 denoted originally. I'm not sure when they finally went over 225", though. I think for awhile in the 60's they actually shrunk up just a bit. I think the '71-76 models were about 230", and then the '77-84 models were 221".

    In 1985, when the little FWD model came out, they initially called them Electra 300 and Electra 380, in relation to engine size (3.0 or 3.8 V-6)
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Do you recall if there was an Electra 430? I would swear that a neighbor of mine had an '85 that said 430 on it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Now that you mention it, they did offer a Diesel engine in the '85 Electra. It was a 4.3 V-6. It was a chopped version of the Olds 350 Diesel, not to be confused with Chevy's 4.3/262 gas V-6 that was introduced that year, and a chopped version of the Chevy 350.

    So I'm guessing the Diesel Electra might've had a "430" badge on it. Also, I goofed on what Buick called their trim levels in 1985. The actual model names were Electra (base) Electra Park Ave (luxury model) and Electra T-type (sporty model). My Consumer Guide is also showing that the 3.8 was standard. However, here's a link to an old Consumer Reports comparison test that had an Electra, and they say the 3.0 was standard, with the 3.8 being a $260 option.

    The '85 Electra/Ninety-Eight/DeVille had an extra long model year though. I think they were actually introduced in the spring of 1984. So maybe the 3.0 was standard in early models, and then later on in the model year they decided to just make the 3.8 standard?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    So maybe the 3.0 was standard in early models, and then later on in the model year they decided to just make the 3.8 standard?

    I didn't know they had a 3.0. I thought the 2.8l V6 got punched to 3.1l. Did the 98/Park Ave platform go FWD in 85 or was it still RWD for another year?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I didn't know they had a 3.0. I thought the 2.8l V6 got punched to 3.1l. Did the 98/Park Ave platform go FWD in 85 or was it still RWD for another year?

    You can thank GM's divisions still having a lot of their own engines for that confusion. Buick came out with a 3.0 version of their 3.8 V-6, for 1982 I believe. It was used mainly in the Century and Cutlass Ciera. I think the Omega and Skylark X-cars still used Chevy 2.8's. It had a 2-bbl carb, and was rated at 110 hp, interestingly the same as the larger 3.8 2-bbl.

    For 1985, when the Grand Am/Calais/Somerset Regal were introduced, they got a fuel injected version that put out 125 hp. Also, I just looked in another used car book I have, that covers 1977-86, and it does show the 1985 Electra/98 offering the 3.0 2-bbl V-6.

    I think the 3.0 was dropped after 1985 in everything except the Grand Am and its siblings. Centurys and Cieras started phasing in the Chevy 2.8, with a Buick 3.8 being optional.

    The Chevy 2.8 is the one that got enlarged to 3.1, and eventually it started showing up in most of GM's midsized/compact offerings, but I don't think that was until around 1990 or so. Also, Buick tried fielding yet another version of their 3.8. I think it was a 3.3, and offered for a few years in the Century/Ciera, before they all just went to 3.1's.

    And yeah, 1985 was the year that GM downsized their C-bodies. However, Cadillac kept a RWD version around, calling it simply "Brougham".
  • prosource1prosource1 Member Posts: 234
    Have owned Hyundai Sonatas (1990, 1992, 1995), Nissan Maxima 1997 and two Honda Pilots 2004 and 2006. Our family does 40,000 on each of our vehicles and all of the above were outstanding. The early Sonatas were not as refined as today's Hyundai's but were very reliable and durable. My 1995 Sonata is still in service with 250,000 on it. The 97 Maxima was flawless and fun to drive. The two Honda Pilots have been without issue. The first one was driven 100,000 miles in 2 years and it never saw but oil, fluid, brake and tire changes. Perfect truck. The 2006 already has 30,000 on it and has been perfect.
    I am buying a 2007 Elantra for my daughter. My brother has a 1998 Elantra with 140,000 miles and it has been a perfect car with only one minor repair. No reason to pay $2k more for the smaller Civic if she is going to drive it for 5-7 years and put tons of mileage on it.
    Loyalty? I would have to say that I am very loyal to Honda and Hyundai. Nissan doesn't have a car I want so I'll stick with Hyundai and Honda.
  • mirde98mirde98 Member Posts: 95
    I've owned two 1985's Honda Civic's, one 94 Hyundai Excel, one 98 Mitsubishi Mirage and i just bought a new Mitsubishi Lancer. I've never had any major problems with any of my vehicles. I owned the Mirage 9yrs and i sold it in perfect conditions. As it for now my first choice is Mitsubishi. 2nd would be Hyundai and 3rd choice would be Honda. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My dad had an Electra, 1977 IIRC, and loved it so much he cried when he sold it.

    For some reason, in the 80s he got an Olds instead, and then he switched to Fords for a while.

    I think he left GM because he liked the Explorer better than the first 4 door Blazers, which were pieced together a bit much for his tastes.

    He had a bad Taurus and now drives an Outback.

    No loyalty from him! :D
  • rafarafa Member Posts: 35
    Well let me start bye saying that nissan are great cars for young people because they design cars that we want. I am 26 and my wife is 23 years old and right now in our garage there is a 2005 nissan maxima that she drives and a 2007 nissan titan that i drive we love our cars so much. We have had a 2001 nissan maxima,2004 nissan titan,2005 nissan armada, and now 2005 maxima titan. Will always own japan made. I know what you guys are thinking these cars are usa made which they are assemble here but all the parts come from japan all made in japan. Will never buy american cars from gm ford chrysler because they dont make any cars that we want they make cars for old people and piece of s...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,889
    But what other brands have you owned? And for how long? At 26 years old with 6 nissans under your belt, it doesn't sound like you have formed much of a fair comparison.

    PLUS, seeing as how all 6 have been in the past 6-7 years, you also have owned one long enough to make much of a reliability/longevity judgement.

    I'm not knocking nissan. I think they are good. I'm just saying it seems a bit premature on your part to be so loyal. Kinda like marrying the first girl ya kiss, no? ;b

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I know what you guys are thinking these cars are usa made which they are assemble here but all the parts come from japan all made in japan.

    IIRC, the Nissan Altima is something like 65% domestic content. So in addition to being assembled in the United States, it's a safe bet that a lot of its components were sourced from the US as well.

    The domestics and imports actually share a lot of parts nowadays. GM makes automatic transmissions for BMW. The a/c compressor in my Dodge Intrepid is supposedly the same component as what's in a Honda Accord. My a/c is failing, BTW, so who do I blame? The Japanese or the Americans? Or the Germans, maybe, since Chrysler was under their control by the time my car was made? :P

    I've also heard varying opinions on Nissan quality. Not enough to scare me away from ever buying one, but I'm not going to blindly put them up on a pedestal, either. My Mom & stepdad had a 91 Stanza that was in need of some pretty steep repairs by the 90,000 mile mark. Among them, the tranny and exhaust system. I've personally known a few examples of the 2.4 4-cyl and the 3.0 V-6 from that era that had timing chains fail prematurely and reduce the engine to rubbish. The tranny in my Mom & stepdad's '99 Altima crapped out at 35,000 miles. But to that car's credit, tranny #2, which was put in under warranty, is doing fine and I'm sure that car has about 240,000 miles on it by now.

    And I've heard some people say that these older Nissans were the durable ones, and that the new ones aren't as good! The Titan/Armada was pretty unreliable when it first came out, although they may be improved by now. Still, if you didn't have any problems with those earlier models, count yourself lucky.

    Nissan does have a sort of youth appeal to it, though. A friend of mine bought an Xterra last year. He was also considering a Chevy Equinox. The "cool" factor of the Xterra is what won out, though. And I'll admit I like the 2002-06 Altima a lot, along with the new one.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My '99 Quest (assembled by Ford in Ohio) seems pretty good, especially considering my maintenance habits. The stuff coming out of the newish Canton MS factory has had a lot of growing pains. Pf_Flyer has had several Nissans over the last couple of decades and he likes to put a couple hundred thousand miles on them. Hopefully he'll have similar luck with his new Versa.

    While I think the (Japanese) drivetrain on my Quest is good (touching wood at 119,500 miles), my next car will be based on the most bang for the buck. Just like the Quest was, and the Voyager before it, and the good old '82 Toyota too. The other car here now is a Subaru, so I guess I'm most loyal to my bank account. :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Pf_Flyer has had several Nissans over the last couple of decades and he likes to put a couple hundred thousand miles on them. Hopefully he'll have similar luck with his new Versa.

    While I'm not really a fan of little cars, I've thought about trying to force myself into something smaller and more fuel-effient the next time I buy a new/new-ish car. I checked out the Versa when it first came out. Not a bad little car, although the driving position was a bit tight for me, with respect to legroom.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    He seems to manage ok.

    Move-In-Day

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2011
    "Kelly says Korean car maker Hyundai took over the top spot on its brand-loyalty list for the second quarter, moving ahead of Honda and Toyota, two mainstays at the top of the list.

    The change could indicate Hyundai is finally leaving behind the upstart status it has been unable to completely shake since arriving in the U.S. in the mid-1980s."

    Hyundai Tops Toyota, Honda in Loyalty Study (Wall St. Journal)

    The "loyalty" may just be a reflection of gas prices:

    Hyundai MPG Focus Nets U.S. Sales Boost (AutoObserver)

    "Hyundai said last week that it's selling more U.S. vehicles that get at least 40 miles per gallon highway than the rest of the auto industry combined, indicating that the South Korean automaker is using its emphasis on fuel economy to overcome past questions of reliability and close the gap with better known imports such as Toyota and Honda."

    And the earthquake and recalls before that haven't helped Japanese automakers.

    "It remains to be seen if Toyota’s brand has fully shaken the safety-recall catastrophe of 2010. Significant new products will remain spare except for Camry. Even the newly expanded Prius lineup, starved out of production by parts shortages for most of the second quarter, may find a less-than-fevered reception among American consumers as gas prices level off. Honda still must find ways to regenerate enthusiasm for its brand in a market where many rivals now equal its quality and functionality. Nissan has fared best of the three in recovering from the disaster and was able to report an 11-percent increase in June sales while its two big rivals declined."

    12 Factors To Watch In Industry's Second Half
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sign of the times, perhaps, but let's remember the Japanese brands had a serious handicap on the supply side for all cars from the quake-affected island.
  • azygosazygos Member Posts: 9
    Only thing that keeps people loyal to a brand is emotion... Which is bad for business I really could care less about the brand of car as long as im getting a reliable car that looks good. People get way to emotionally attached and the car companies love it im sure. If I could just tell those emotionally attached people one thing it would be the car companies don't care about you all they want is whats in your wallet! = )
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Just because Pontiac customers can't buy a G8 anymore doesn’t mean they're leaving the GM umbrella. Nearly 40 percent of Pontiac owners who traded in for a new car in 2011 opted for another GM vehicle."

    Pontiac Owners Remain Loyal to GM, Edmunds.com Study Says (Inside Line)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They did well compared to other GM brands, sure, but Honda and Ford retain 62% loyalty, per JD Power, so I still wouldn't call that good overall.

    GM loses fewer Pontiac customers compared to other brands, that's how I'd say it. The majority still bail.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Nearly 40 percent of Pontiac owners who traded in for a new car in 2011 opted for another GM vehicle."

    That's because Hertz, Avis, et al buy Malibus and Impalas now, instead of Grand Prixes, Bonnevilles, G6'es, and G5's. :blush:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The study actually said GM.

    So the rental agencies must be buying Chrysler 200s and Fusions. ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    "But one thing that has been highlighted by all of Chevrolet’s new-product successes is the glaring reality that General Motors hasn’t been able to develop a modern brand presence for Chevy to match its vehicles. In his 18 months as GM’s chief marketing officer, Joel Ewanick has been trying gamely to shape a historically iconic American brand into an even more effective modern marquee in North America that also, for the first time, would resonate as a global brand as well."

    Chevrolet Hoping Brand Catches Up With Products (AutoObserver)

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Send in the clones. The virtually identical 2013 Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ make a mockery of the idea that a brand's identity matters.

    The BRZ and FR-S take badge engineering -- the notion that you can put two brand logos on a single vehicle and convince people they're unique and different -- to depths not seen since General Motors decimated the value of its Pontiac brand with identi-cars like the Pontiac G5, which was a barely disguised Chevrolet Cobalt."

    Scion FR-S, Subaru BRZ are almost identical (Detroit Free Press)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Some brands have more equity to a potential buyer than others, even if they aren't technically "loyal". In my case, the Subaru brand is a lot more appealing than Scion.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It's a bit easier for me to get to a Scion dealer but there's not a huge difference. Limited experience but the Scion dealer in Boise seemed much less slimy than the Subaru dealer when I went for quotes. New building too.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I just don't like the marketing-driven existence of Scion, nor the rest of their lineup, which previously has been plain old beige with a dash of faux-hip. At least Subaru has been something different, and has some history of a few cars for enthusiasts.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Funny, because I think Subaru lost its way a bit with the bigger, SUVier wagons. Still like the Forester a lot though. Could easily live with an xD too though.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Luckily, Subaru still has the Impreza, with genuinely sporty versions. All Scion has for sport is the tC, which is a sports coupe for someone too boring or timid to pursue anything actually interesting or fun.

    I do like how Scion was aimed at young buyers, but was embraced by the active boomer crowd. Says something about the fun to drive factor, maybe.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Either that or us oldsters have seen it all and want something that's practical (hatches and wagons) and don't need to be seen driving a tuner.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Scion does have practicality. Cars that would have been Tercel and Corolla variants before marketing became king.

    Or maybe the arthritis/aching joints make the low entry of tuned cars hard, and the encroaching senility makes remembering the shift patterns troublesome :shades:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2012
    Funny, but I can do child pose all day long but I'd much rather ease into my minivan than fold down into my Outback.
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