Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

c_hunter · December 2003

I think they could have changed the gearing on the XT a tad, for a little less acceleration and better fuel economy. Low 5 sec 0-60 runs are fantastic, but I'm sure we would still love the car if it was in the low 6 sec range.

I guess that the XT is spinning at higher RPMs on the highway at cruising speeds because of the gearing. Can any XT owners comment on this? Is it noticeable? what RPM at say, 60mph?

Craig

ateixeira · December 2003

Interesting, George. If so we missed that.

I think 1st is shorter but 5th is taller, so highway rpm isn't much different from the XS.

The short final drive got SoA what they wanted - great press. You didn't see anyone who tested it asking for more power. How rare is that?

-juice

subarusaleshou · December 2003

yesterday. On the highway 3000 rpm is right at 70 mph.

carinf · December 2003

Chuck,Thanks for the info. on the clock, I'll replace it. Earl

subkid · December 2003

Hi, are you kidding us? Already started a N.Y. party

. Asking XT owners (i.e. inviting particular one) to comment on gearing?

On the other side, if you really are serious and interested in that subject, just search a little - there will be lots of info on one of those forums.

Happy New Year everybody - how about a N.Y. resolution - no more use of the words 'XT', 'gearing', 'final drive ratio' in the same post

K

wzeiser · December 2003

Is there a forum for Subaru Forester manual transmission enthusiasts? There is so much to like about the Forester in general, and I think the MT enhances the experience. Am I a dying breed?.

Anyhow, I'm awaiting my XS MT to get its after-market leather seats, and I'd like to let Subaru know that I'm not all that thrilled with their marketing decisions re: the MT in the US (aside from the obligatory letter, which I've already drafted). Maybe there are other folks out there who have banded together to send that message to the powers that be--I'd like to join them if they are out there.

Oh, and Happy New Year.

hayduke01 · December 2003

The last car I bought with an auto was a 1970 Pontiac LeMans. Bought it in '75, before I learned to drive a stick.

While I've found one automatic that I like (VW's six-speed with the 1.8 liter turbo engine), I doubt that I'd actually buy a vehicle with an auto. Maybe I'm a dinosaur (have been called worse) but I think any vehicle will be more fun with the MT.

Congatulations on the new Forester, Walker. I was spared the agony of your XT-or-not decision since I bought in '02. Would have been a tough decision for me, too.

p0926 · December 2003

Walker- There's been plenty of griping here about the lack of the PP option for the 5MT. It no doubt was a marketing decision based on perceived demand and I'm certainly not qualified to second-guess them. And while there are a dozen or so people here on Edmunds who have stated they would have bought an XT PP 5MT (including me), in the overall scheme of things (they sell more than 4k Foresters a month), that's just a drop in the bucket.

But speaking of manual trannys, I realized the other day that my parents haven't owned an automatic in over 30 years. They're both pushing 80 now but still drive cars with manual trannys.

-Frank P.

wzeiser · December 2003

Frank--My mother just turned 85 and still drives her '92 5-speed Subaru Legacy wagon around town.

I'm also married to a manny tranny freak (lucky me). Between us, we've owned 14 cars, 13 of which were manuals, including 5 vws, 2 volvos, and 2 subarus (the one that was not--a Pontiac--was a gift). I even owned a '75 AMC Pacer with a three on the floor.

I've been out of the car market for five years, and I was quite surprised to find out how hard they are to come by (just finding one to take a test drive in proved to be a real chore, and I never found a Subaru dealer that had both the XT and the X/XS in manuals at the same time).

I'm feeling old, and it's not just that another year is upon us!

mike1257 · December 2003

I have a 2001 Forester S Premium, 35,000 miles. Never had a problem until recently when I began to develope a hesitation at low, stop / go traffic. Did a fuel injection cleaning, but the problem persisted. It's gotten so bad now that I have stalled on two occassions; when stopped, the motor will sometimes race and I can feel a slight bounce; when accelerating from a stop, there is a delay and then an acceleration with my foot only slightly on the gas pedal. Think I might have heard a backfire, but couldn't be sure it was me given the heavy truck traffic. No lights / indicators have come on (except when stalling). Took it to a few mechanics and dealer, but they can't diagnose the problem for sure. It didn't act badly with the dealer, who thought it might be either the ratio sensor or air intake valve assembly. One mechanic thought it might be the TPS sensor, but dealer didn't think so and warned me not to let anyone adjust it. The car restarted after the stalls.

I've enjoyed reading the posts on this board, and have learned alot - hope someone might have some suggestions / perhaps a similar experience. Thanks.

ezshift5 · December 2003

....manual trans folk (my last auto was a truly beautiful '57 Ford Fairlane 500 Sunliner); witty ex-Navy types and best of all: all of you are bright!! This beats the hell out of spending Christmas in the Tonkin Gulf............

Seriously, great source of information...H-2004/ez

p0926 · December 2003

Witty ex-navy?!?! What about us Army types?

-Frank P.

P.S. Jack's a nice enough fellow but I'm concerned that his eggs got a little scrambled from crewing on a nuke sub :-)

ezshift5 · December 2003

..being the holidays and all, I certainly mean to tread carefully here but:

..were you to be aware of the requirements for submarine duty (diesel, let alone nuclear) you just might be impressed.

Incidentally, I served in the Army prior to college. Ever hear of the ASA?

All the best...ez

leo2633 · December 2003

I have a 2001 Forester S and recently had a similar problem with hesitation. It turned out to be a burnt coil pack (the thing that looks like a distributor cap on the front of the engine). The dealer also replaced the spark plugs and ignition wires. One of the plugs had fouled, due to one of the coils misfiring. The wires were originals, so they were changed as well.

I hope this helps in diagnosing your problem. Happy New Year.

Len

p0926 · December 2003

EZ- Actually I'm fairly knowledegeable about the requirements for sub duty (I was just busting Jack's chops and hopefully he took it in the spirit intended).

Hear of the ASA? Yes you could say that, I was in it. I assume from the question that you were too. What Field Station?

-Frank P.

mckeown · December 2003

If you haven't Get it to a Dealer ASAP before your 3/36 runs out. Get the complaint registered. The few of these that happened to me and 3 others I know (they were either Legacys or Outbacks), turned out to be the Oxygen sensor. Have the dealer "plot" it. It may have slow response. OR if it happens after it warms up, then this happened to me also. Left me on the NY Thruway 'chugging' along as if I had water in the gas...Go....Coast...Go...Coast without removing my foot from the gas pedal.
One of my buddies just stopped on the highway and wouldn't restart. Flatbedded to dealer.....No Trouble Found. 2nd time it happened, the Oxygen sensor was the fix. My experiences and $.02

ballistic · December 2003

requirements for submarine duty (diesel, let alone nuclear)

Requirements? What requirements? They let me do five patrols; three on the first ballistic missile boat and two on the 3rd. If I could qualify, an average chimpanzee could do the same.

I decided to postpone buying studded snows until next year. Right after making that brilliant decision, southwest Portland naturally got snow beginning several days ago. About 4", then another 3 on top of that, with some below-freezing temps in between. The XT hardly seemed to notice. I have a steep hill starting at the foot of my driveway, and another at the only entrance to the neighborhood. Child's play in this car. I'll tell you, though, nobody will ever fail to notice when the ABS kicks in. The brake pedal pulses in and out at least an inch.

p0926 · December 2003

Requirements? What requirements? They let me do five patrols; three on the first ballistic missile boat and two on the 3rd. If I could qualify, an average chimpanzee could do the same.

Ahhh... that explains why they now have much more stringent requirements ;-)

-Frank P.

P.S. Jack- I saw on TV where Portland was getting snow. Good to know that your XT handled it with aplomb.

ballistic · December 2003

Good to know that your XT handled it with aplomb.

Wife, who spent her entire first 18 years in extreme northwest Minnesota where they measure snowfall in feet, not inches, and it lasts months, not days, now comes completely unhinged when she rides with me in a few scant inches. The XT never faltered, but you'd never know that by her paranoid reaction.

I built our home in a very hilly area. In the past, any snow at all left us trapped, either in unable to get out, or out unable to get in. Amazing how liberating a Forester is. We had yearly dinner reservations last night at my favorite establishment, and I didn't want to cancel. We didn't. The steaks tasted twice as good.

What mad cow disease?

grahampeters · January 2004

G'day

Let me do a sales pitch on the wonders of lean, Australian Beef. Shipping now to a butcher near you, and BSE free (we hope)! I guarantee that it tastes nicer than US Beef and leaner. One of our really great export producs.

Now, how to tie this back to a Forester theme... I know, "bad idea to run into an Australian cow, even with a Forester. They are bigger and stronger..."

Cheers

Graham

p0926 · January 2004

Graham- I read yesterday that Australia, Brazil & Argentina were hoping to cash in on the BSE hysteria sweeping the world. I didn't expect you to be one of the spokesmen though ;-)

-Frank P.

ezshift5 · January 2004

..Baumholder, Germany. It all counts on 20...ez

rsholland · January 2004

a "Buffalo Mac," at Mickey-D's?

Bob

stever · January 2004

We have a friend who raises beeves and got some roasts and steaks from her. Good stuff; one of her cows broke a leg so she slaughtered it, and let friends have some.

Alas, I'm all out of downer cow steaks (and halibut) in my freezer :-(

A bunch of local Idaho french fries are stuck in limbo too; many frozen for export are cooked in beef tallow.

For anyone looking for Forester info in here, how about a review? (JS Online)

Steve, Host

njswamplands · January 2004

stever · January 2004

Bob tells me he's going to show up for the chat tonight (in ~ an hour in fact) and see if anyone else shows. Let's surprise him :-)

Link is on the left.

Steve, Host

samiam_68 · January 2004

2.5 XT 5MT - For the FIRST time, surpassed 300 miles on a tank of gas - 306 miles, all highway driving averaging 70-75 MPH, A/C off, 13.3 gallons to fill up. That's exactly 23.0 MPG. Car has 5,000 miles on it and is running on Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30.

RPM's - 3,000 at 70 MPH, about 3,500 at 80 MPH.

ballistic · January 2004

That's about equal to my best tankful ever.

burnsmr4 · January 2004

I asked about 7-10 pages of messages ago about new tires. I almost did the COSTCO thing with Michelins, but I ended up getting Toyo Proxes TPTs (directional tires) from my local installer (with whom I've done business for 5 years). Cost me about the same as the COSTCO install of Michelins, but I got a 4-wheel alignment as well. All for about $572 with a 5% employer discount.

I drove to NC from Atlanta on them -- they seemed to ride well. But they were a bit rough ride between 70mph and 80mph. I think they were a bit overinflated. The tire shops always do that. As opposed to the dealerships who follow the placards on the inside of the door which tend to give better, smoother rides. I'll find a middle ground this weekend after an oil change.

Speaking of maintenance, I am going to buy an extended warranty for my Subaru from the selling dealership either tomorrow or Saturday. I was surprised that dealer pricing was about 15% - 20% less than the MSRP on the Subaru Added Security brochures. The Gold Plus plan with a $100 deductible doesn't sound bad. It covers accessories like that expensive cargo curtain on the 2002 Forester S.

Anyone running on the Subaru Added Security extended warranty? Satisfied with the coverage? Pleased/disappointed with the dealer pricing?

That's about it. Happy New Year!

burnsmr4

ballistic · January 2004

I never buy extended warranties. They are one of the highest profit-margin add-ons a dealer sells.

troop2shos · January 2004

I've always negotiated the purchase price on extended warranties with as little as $50 over the dealer's actual cost. However, except for buying an after-market warranty on my Troop (even with only 1 warranty repair) due to the status of Isuzu in the U.S., I've only bought extended warranties on domestic vehicles & never came out on the short end - saving thousands of dollars. OEM & other plans also cover a rental which is invaluable to me for business reasons when my "second office" is in the shop for days, weeks, months. My father-in-law had great reliability with his 2 Subaru's in the late 70's & '80's & I anticipate that my XT will be as good or better with Subaru's Q.C...but I may consider their Gold pkg - just in case...price dependent.

p0926 · January 2004

Michael- I won't bore anyone again with my opinion of Extended Warranties (Jack summed it up nicely). However, it is my understanding that Subaru's Gold Plan is a good one and does entitle you to preferential treatment at the dealership.

If you're going to get one, you should be aiming to pay about half the MSRP (yes the mark-up is that great). Also, call Subaru of Gwinnett and ask what their prices are (they claim to sell for considerably less than MSRP) but remember that even that price is negotiable. Good luck.

-Frank P.

zman · January 2004

Sounds like the EPA hit the XT mileage pretty much on the button, at least for the highway driving. 300 miles on a tank seems annoying, but then I'm used to my current 30 mpg on the highway and just over 550 miles on a tank. That's a big difference. I can't imagine what it is like in an H2!

Speaking of which, is anyone else ticked off by the so-called small business tax write-off for luxury SUVS (technically any vehicle over 6,000 pounds). I know the law years ago was intended to help farmers afford big machinery, but a good friend of mine (a doctor) discovered it applied to him (and to lawyers, real estate agents, etc.) but only if they purchase huge, guzzling SUVs. He gets as much as 100K to write off over the years.

This seems idiotic.

bluesubie · January 2004

That's exactly 23.0 MPG. Car has 5,000 miles on it and is running on Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30

The synthetic probably helped give you a 1 or 2 mpg bump. Switching to synthetic in the diffs will probably help as well.

-Dennis

p0926 · January 2004

zman- Don't even get me started on the tax-write off loophole. It makes my blood boil! I even heard an H2 dealer ad on a local radio station telling people to buy before the end of the year so they could write off their purchase on this year's taxes. Grrrr!!!!

-Frank P.

zman · January 2004

Frank,

Sorry, I didn't mean to ruin your day. I take it you guys on this forum site have been through this particular issue already, so I'll let it go.

Zman

lfdal · January 2004

Must be my bad luck - I've **never - ever - ever** lost money on one. :<(

Or is it good luck I had them? GMOL (great mystery of life).

Happy New Years to all and thanks for keeping this one great group.

Larry

mike1257 · January 2004

Didn't get it originally with my 2001 Forester...after 2 1/2 years, SOA sent me an option for added security. Things were going well, and given the general feeling that extended warranties were not worth the cost ($550 for 42 months / 60,000 miles) I let the offer pass. I am now less than two months past my 36 months (though still under 36,000), and have developed terrible hesitation problems. Still in the stages of diagnosing the problem, but I sure wish I had taken that option now. Just a thought to share...

ballistic · January 2004

One of the great ironies of life is that any and all attempts at social engineering always backfire with unintended consequences that their myopic proponents never thought of or admit to. Nearly all exclusions, deductions, and other preferences in the tax code flunk this test. The >6,000 lb. 100% SUV write-off is just one of hundreds of examples I could rail about, but won't.

Eliminate all deductions and exemptions. Give me a revenue-neutral flat tax applied to straight adjusted gross income, at about a 15% rate. Then stand back and watch this economy soar when phony, contrived tax considerations no longer interfere with sound economic decision-making.

Stepping off CPA soapbox.

stever · January 2004

Imagine - fewer couples rattling around in 5,000 square foot starter castles.

I don't like extended warranties either, and I drive them almost as long as Ballistic does. (Agreeing with Jack, twice!, is a bit scary <g>).

I'm trying Toyo's on my minivan. Jury is still out, but you got to like the Subura-ish color scheme at their web site.

Steve, Host

p0926 · January 2004

You been smoking any of that funny weed lately? Seriously though, do you really ever expect to see any meaningful tax reform? I don't. Not unless the Libertarian party takes off and controls congress someday.

-Frank P.

ballistic · January 2004

Seriously though, do you really ever expect to see any meaningful tax reform?

We came magically close in Packwood's 1986 Tax Reform Act. It contained some troublesome "transition rules" inserted mainly by Rostenkowski, but on balance it was the best piece of tax legislation in my long lifetime. Certainly a very large step in the right direction.

Then the social architects, who were horrified at their loss of ability to dictate behavior, spent the next 20 years dismantling it.

I'm not (yet) so cynical as to give up and say it could never happen again.

burnsmr4 · January 2004

Thanks, folks, for chiming in on the extended warranty information. I got pricing of $150 - $200 (depending on the guy's mood) of the MSRP from the brochure.

He claimed a 6 year/60000 mile Gold Plus warranty was $675 dealer cost. That adds 3 years/24000 miles to my existing 3 year/36000 mile warranty. Only 1 year to my drivetrain warranty -- no additional miles on it.

If I got around the $1K mark, I could get the 6 year/72000 mile warranty and extend both my regular and drive warranties.

Of course, in either case, I'll get, at most, 2 years of use from the warranty, since I'm already at 36K miles after 2 years. And I'll still be paying off the car during the uncovered 5th year.

Suggestions? Recommendations?

burnsmr4

stever · January 2004

You may want to skim Extended Warranties and Should I buy Ext. Warranty? over on the F,W & I board too.

Steve, Host

ballistic · January 2004

None of those offers would get me to pry my wallet open. Unless your Sube has been horrifically unreliable and expensive to fix (on their warranty dime, up to now), I would invest the money and self-insure.

cyberpirate · January 2004

Mike:

I just got Gold-Plus/100k/7yr/$0-ded (2K2 Forester) for over 40% of the MSRP. If you are interested, I can forward you the contact info...

ballistic · January 2004

can be almost any percentage off one wants if the suggested price isn't known. The suggested can be raised so the discount can be raised and the bottom line is the same with both 25% and 35% discount.

Americans go nuts over xx%-off "sales". Furniture and clothing stores are famous (or famously notorious) for perpetually advertising stuff at HALF-OFF!!! Few if any buyers ever actually pay the claimed pre-discount price, so the reality is that the so-called deep-discount sales price is in fact the actual "going-rate" price. Only the uninformed let themselves be beguiled by these everyday practices.

burnsmr4 · January 2004

I may explore this extended warranty next week rather than today. The dealership was amenable to back-dating a few miles if I went over, in the event that I wanted to buy one. I need to do more research.

Cyberpirate -- post any and all contact information you can here. I'd appreciate it. I'm going to go over numbers with my wife in the meantime and call the Gwinnett dealership.

burnsmr4

tidester · January 2004

post any and all contact information you can here.

Please, don't! You may provide the name of the dealership but no contact information including names of salespeople, phone numbers and so forth.

tidester, host

burnsmr4 · January 2004

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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