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Jeep Liberty Starting and Stalling Problems

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  • coatsmcoatsm Posts: 12
    Got the Libby back from the Dealer today. According to the Tech, a bad CAM sensor damaged the PCM. So in the end, the Crank sensor, CAM sensor, and the PCM have been replaced. The Dealer did not charge me for the CAM sensor. Which was very nice. The PCM is under the State/Fed 8 yr/80,000 mile warranty.

    I will let you know tomorrow if this fixed the problem. :)

    Matt
  • Hi maybe I can help.Im a chrysler/jeep technician. Ive seen these problems many times. Although I cant pinpoint your fault without seeing it ,here are some things that I have run into..
    First know this. Any sensor cam/crank/tps etcc..) that has a reference voltage from the pcm can cause this issue.
    these sensors,(ESPECIALLY THE CRANK SENSORS) CAN SHORT OUT INTERNALLY. THIS WILL CAUSE A NO START CONDITION AND A "NO COMMUNICATION" ISSUE WITH THE PCM. This condition has caused numerous unneeded pcm replacements. It gets difficult to diag when its an intermittent problem. sometimes a tech will install the pcm and let the jeep leave. Then when temp is right, the sensor shorts and it all happens again. Often by the time the jeep shows up on the hook the engine has cooled and the short is gone. In this case the tech has nothing to go on. YOU MOST LIKELY WONT HAVE A CODE HERE.
    THIS IS HOW I DIAGNOSE THE ISSUE. WHEN THE CONDITION IS PRESENT(NO COMMUNICATION") wITH THE KEY ON, START DISCONNECTING EACH SENSOR THAT HAS A REFERENCE VOLTAGE. START WITH THE CRANK SENSOR. IF YOU SEE THE SCANNER GET COMMUNICATION, THEN YOU FOUND THE SHORTED SENSOR.tHIS CAN BE A PAIN IN THE [non-permissible content removed] IF THE CONDITION IS INTERMITTENT.
    PLEASE NOTE: IT IS EXTREMELY RARE THAT THE PCM ITSELF HAS CAUSED THIS CONDITION. 99% OF THE TIME ITS A SENSOR SHORTING OUT, WIPING OUT ALL COMMUNICATION.
    ALSO NOTE: i HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS CONDITION ACTUALLY DAMAGE THE PCM. ONCE THE SHORTED SENSOR IS REPLACED, THE PCM IS FINE. THERE IS A RESISTOR IN THE PCM THAT PROTECTS IT FROM THIS.
    sOMEONE IN THE FORUM WROTE THAT THE DEALER SAID THAT THE SENSOR SHORTED AND DAMAGED THE PCM. THEY SAID THE GOT A NEW CKP,CMP AND PCM. THATS THE STORY THAT IS USED WHEN THEY REPLACED THE PCM FIRST FOR NOTHING, WHEN IT WAS A SHORTED SENSOR THAT WAS THE PROBLEM ALL ALONG.
    IVE SEEN THAT HAPPEN TOO.
    I NORMALLY WOULDNT GIVE OUT MY OWN PROCEDURES BUT YOU ALL SEEM FRUSTRATED.
    I DONT KNOW WHAT CLIMATE YOU LIVE IN BUT IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. I LIVE IN TORONTO. WE HAVE HOT SUMMERS AND COLD WINTERS, MAYBE THATS WHY IVE SEEN THIS SO MANY TIMES.
    GOOD LUCK, LET ME KNOW IF I HELPED YOU OR MADE THINGS MORE CONFUSING.

    THANKS j.
  • coatsmcoatsm Posts: 12
    JeepTech,

    "ALSO NOTE: i HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS CONDITION ACTUALLY DAMAGE THE PCM. ONCE THE SHORTED SENSOR IS REPLACED, THE PCM IS FINE. THERE IS A RESISTOR IN THE PCM THAT PROTECTS IT FROM THIS."
    I was thinking why didn't Jeep put in a 3 cent resistor or 10 cent zener diode to protect the PCM. The Tech said it was a bad CAM sensor. I don't know if it was shorting or not. The CAM sensor and the PCM does share the same +5 volt source, right? so the lost of communication with the scanner and a shorting CAM sensor does make sense. The PCM was not getting any power. It's good to hear that there is some protection for the PCM. Maybe the PCM was damaged because the CAM sensor has been shorting out for three weeks. My problems got worst over time.

    "DONT KNOW WHAT CLIMATE YOU LIVE IN BUT IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. I LIVE IN TORONTO. WE HAVE HOT SUMMERS AND COLD WINTERS, MAYBE THATS WHY IVE SEEN THIS SO MANY TIMES."

    I live in Southern California. But I do drive the vehicle to Tahoe every year for a week of skiing.

    Question - Could a shorting CAM sensor cause the PCM to feed gas to the engine after the engine has died? The fuel pump, injectors all running. The Tach was bouncing between 0 and 5,000 RPMs. I think on this day the PCM went bad. But I did get it started a few hours later, so ???? I don't know.

    Anyway, am happy, for the first time in a little over three weeks the engine did not died on me today. I can tell by the way the engine is running that the problem is fixed.

    Matt
    :)
  • I purchased a 2002 Jeep Liberty in July 2006. I has been great so far but this morning it wouldn't start. I finally got it going by pushing the accelerator to the floor while I was cranking on it. It blew black smoke and would die if you let off the pedal. I finally got it to the garage to get it worked on. I was wondering if you ever found the problem with yours, and what is was. Thanks
  • coatsmcoatsm Posts: 12
    Well, it has been a week and the engine has not died once. Looks like the problem is fixed. So in the end, the Crank sensor, CAM sensor, and the PCM have been replaced.

    Matt :)
  • oak3oak3 Posts: 2
    2003 grand cherokee conected battery cables up wrong about 20 sec to another running car. battery smoking so it was disconnected.
    replace with new battery. car will turn over,windows car radio \etc work.gauges do not register. will not crank.checked fuses only radio blown so replaced.what have I done?
    thanks
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,224
    You may be in the wrong thread for the Grand Cheokee. This is for the diesel Liberty. YOu have brought to light the reason many people do not like to use their cars to jump others. You have probably destroyed some electronics that will be expensive to replace.
  • oak3oak3 Posts: 2
    Sorry-thanks anyway.
  • rinntrinnt Posts: 1
    Hi all,

    First time poster to this forum. If I'm in the wrong place, please let me know....

    The problem I'm experiencing with my Jeep is a little difficult to describe, but I will do my best. Usually, the problem will occur first thing in the morning (and for some reason, Monday seems like the most common day for it to occur). Here's what happens: I start the Jeep and usually wait at least a couple minutes before shifting into overdrive. Then I drive to the end of my driveway, stop, and wait until the coast is clear before pulling onto the main road. Once I pull onto the main road I usually get to about 10-20 mph then the trouble starts...

    It's almost like the Jeep tries to shift but stays in neutral. The Jeep starts losing speed, and any attempts to press the gas pedal only increases the RPMS. I can keep pressing the pedal without any acceleration. Then, quite suddenly, it will kick back in gear and work fine. The whole ordeal may only last between 3-7 seconds, but could potentially lead to a very serious accident (I turn on to a high speed road w/a sharp turn).

    Talks w/the dealer haven't been very successful. They checked for error codes and it came up clean. They told me to bring it in "when it's happening", but without a regular pattern and happening only 1-2 a week if that, it would be pointless. Any ideas??
  • Matt,

    Good to hear you're back online. I think I'm right behind you.

    With all the talk (and reading at AllData.com) about the crank and cam sensors being so closely related (plus the fact that you can replace both thru Napa for @ $60), I decided to replace both at the same time. I figured if nothing else, it was cheap insurance against the dealer saying the problem had nothing to do with the PCM. The labor to replace them was completely easy. Funny thing is, I've been thru two days of solid driving and haven't seen any signs of stalling. I hope that means the problem is solved.

    Anyway, hopefully we can stay away from one another for a while, at least in this forum. ;)

    o.k. then...
  • Glad, or not so glad, to hear everyone is having the problems I just ran into. I've got an 02 Liberty w/ 74000 miles and the engine cutout while driving on Sunday and had it towed to the dealer. Monday afternoon they told me the Crank Sensor needs replacement and also reccommended fuel injector maintenance service. I had my car back Tuesday afternoon and about 4 miles from the dealer it died again, same symptoms, tach bouncing, etc...

    This morning, Wednesday, they call and say now they're receiving an error code for Cam Sensor which they will replace at no cost to me. That's nice of them but from what I'm reading from the rest of you I fear a recurring experience as I drive away again tonight.

    For what it's worth, I'm in upstate NY and the car has endured winters and summers here for the past 4 years and has suddenly experienced this issue.
  • coatsmcoatsm Posts: 12
    Amentze,

    This is very strange. Why is the Crank sensor and the CAM sensor failing on the 2002 Libery at the same time? They both have the +5 volt ref in common and connect to the PCM on the same connector I think. I ran my Libby for about three weeks with a bad CAM sensor which damaged my PCM according to the Dealer.

    Did they tell you the error code number?

    Matt
  • Matt,

    They did not provide me the actual error code. I picked up the car Wednesday evening and so far have driven approximately 30 miles with no problems.... yet. Keeping my fingers crossed.
  • wajeepwajeep Posts: 1
    Hey There,

    I have a 2003 Liberty with about 74K miles and the other day it wouldn't start. I thought for sure it was the starter but when the tow truck came to get it, it did start. Like some of you have mentioned, black smoke came out the back and and it wouldn't stay running without giving it serious gas. The dealership replaced the battery connectors and told me I needed new thermostat hoses. This ended up costing a lot of money and now that I have it back it still doesn't start all that great and my instrument panel has some wierd glitches here and there.

    Any suggestions? It does have a new battery.

    Thanks!
  • coatsmcoatsm Posts: 12
    mrknowitalltoo,

    "instrument panel has some weird glitches here and there".
    Could you explain what the instrument panel is doing? Does the engine dies or just won't start? Any engine codes?

    Matt
  • I had the fuel pump changed on my Jeep Liberty and it runs perfect now. Several mechanics told me to make sure I put a factory pump back in, instead of an aftermarket pump. They say the aftermarket pumps only last a few months. Hope this helps.
  • Six days and 300 miles later I've experienced no recurring problems. In the end, I'm looking at a replaced crank sensor at my expense and cam sensor at the dealer's expense. Whether they were both bad or whether it was a misdiagnosis and only the cam sensor was bad, I guess we'll never know.

    I'm off to find appropriate thread to post my other Liberty issues. :(
  • Another 2003 Jeep Liberty stalling problem:
    - Crankshaft sensor was replaced, didn't help.
    - Service manager said all six ignition coils are bad (they expanded for some reason), he hasn't seen that before.
    - The coils have been replaced, and it STILL isn't fixed.

    Now they want to order a new PCM, doubling my costs from $500 to $1000.
    And get this - I have 80,780 miles on it, and knew enough to check if this was covered via the 80,000-mile federal warranty.
    It IS!
    I called Chrysler to see if they could cut me a break, and the lady was rude. Seemed to delight in telling me I was screwed because I was less than 1000 miles over!

    Meanwhile, two yrs ago my Honda had 83,500 miles when the catalytic converter went. It took a little pleading, but they replaced it for FREE.
    That's great customer service, and I tell everyone how much I appreciated it (and now you know, too).

    We'll see if Chrysler can be as reasonable, as I keep trying. But when their national customer service phone reps go home at 5 pm (wtf?), that's not exactly encouraging.

    Meanwhile, should I be questioning whether the PCM really needs to be replaced?

    :(
  • coatsmcoatsm Posts: 12
    Howiem2,

    Wow, that PCM is going to cost you @$800.00. All six ignition coils bad? That's more than kind of hard to believe.

    Have they checked the "CAM" sensor? Have you been running the vehicle for along time with the Engine dying problem? I damaged my PCM by running my vehicle for three weeks with a bad CAM sensor according to my dealer.

    If the Libby dies are about four minutes to six minutes after starting (Engine going into closed loop), have them check the CAM sensor (@$70.00).

    Matt
  • They wound up fixing the cam sensor, too.
    I just sent out a letter to them to see if the $966 that they would have paid in full 800 miles earlier is going to lead them to pay me ANYTHING at all now.

    Do they have to? Should they do something if they want to seem reasonable? Yes.
    We'll see.
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