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Acura TSX vs. Honda Civic Si Sedan

bs0bs0 Member Posts: 27
edited May 2014 in Acura
Hi,

I have a small commute to work and looking for a fun yet practical car. I will be leasing as i will not be doing a lot of miles and we own our other car (rav4).

So, options are acura tsx (semi-cool & luxury) vs sedan si (very-cool & not so many luxuries)....Both i would get in manual (obviously Si is only MT).

What are peoples thought's on +ve/-ve of these?

thanks,
Brett
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Comments

  • bs0bs0 Member Posts: 27
    Oh, and another thing...i live in illinois....i gather that illinois does not have very good sales tax laws related to leasing....I am Australian, so haven't leased in this country before....Can you lease a car in another state (ie wisconsin) and save some $$?
  • pham0167pham0167 Member Posts: 48
    If I've got the extra $10k, I'd go with the TSX. I test drove a TSX before I purchased a Civic EX. TSX very nice and roomy, leather heated seats, automatic climate control, blue tooth, heated windows...about the same power and gas mileage as a Civic Si (Si has slightly better gas mileage, TSX has slightly better horsepower, it's a trade off). TSX is probably built better with better materials as well (comes with longer warranty), Civic has a lot of plastic on the inside. TSX will be a lot quieter due to better material and sound proofing and a better sound system.

    Also, the TSX is just a rebrand of the European Honda Accord. TSX and Civics are completely different classes of car. Accord is a midsize sedan, TSX is luxury midsize, and Civic is compact

    If it makes a difference, Acura salesperson and customer service are much much much better than Honda sales/service.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    I am also considering buying either the civic si sedan or the tsx. I do not think there is a price for the si sedan yet so the price difference might be a little closer. I own a 05 civic ex-se The dealer where I bought the civic also sells acuras. I am waiting for the 08 tsx since it will be a new design. Right now I am leaning towards that. A good friend is the service manager for acura so he told me he will try to get me a good price when I decide to buy but give me great service deals
  • pham0167pham0167 Member Posts: 48
    Pricing for the Civic Si sedan is expected to be the same as the current Si Coupe, maybe 1k or 2k more. Eitherway, i don't think there will be a big change in price difference between the Si and TSX. It's expected to be released in December, dealers have already taken pre-orders since they will be tough to find. All of the Honda dealers i've gone to in Minnesota have taken pre-orders since September.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The Civic SI coupe is about a $2500 premium over the EX. I'd expect the same for the SI Sedan.
  • bs0bs0 Member Posts: 27
    if the si sedan is within $1k of the si coupe (worst case), there is still around a $5k price diff between the si sedan and the tsx invoice price (assuming i can get around invoice).

    All the points made about the tsx better build quality, quieter and more luxurious are steering me in that direction....although the price of the civic and the fact that it is 'more cool!' is tempting!!

    Any answers on the state question?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Oh, and another thing...i live in illinois....i gather that illinois does not have very good sales tax laws related to leasing....I am Australian, so haven't leased in this country before....Can you lease a car in another state (ie wisconsin) and save some $$?

    Taxes are based on where the vehicle is registered - not where it is purchased/leased. So the answer is no.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    The honda dealer here in nc told me that the si sedan would be hard to find and that I should put a deposit on one. I am not in any real rush to get one especially without being able to try one. If I get to see one first maybe I will not like it. I am actually waiting for the 08 models anyway. I also do not like to be pressured.
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    They will be very different driving experiences. I recently purchased an Si Coupe and it is much more entertaining than the TSX is IF you like the snorty exhaust note and a much more in your face overall driving expereince. I've test driven a manual TSX and found it to be much more refined than the Si .... too refined for my taste. It had very smooth and subdued acceleration sounds while having nice tight handling - it was just too "subtle". The ride was much smoother and less "jiggly" than the Si. Now the Si sedan might be a tad less in your face than the coupe but I don't think they will domesticate it down (or up .. depending on your opinion) to the level of the TSX. The Si leaves a "YEEHAW grin" on my face and just begs to be driven hard the TSX left me with a "that's nice" smile on my face but you couldn't tell you were driving it hard (if that makes any sense).

    Go drive em...then pick your poison - the warranty on a Civic can be extended to match the Accura if that is a concern and you'd still be out less coin (assuming you can get the Si for MSRP which might be tough).
  • worrywartworrywart Member Posts: 8
    hey

    i just bought my Si this week and that's a really accurate description of the driving experience.. of course i'm still breaking it in, but when i DO get on it, it really can get kinda a mean and nasty.. for a little thing...
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    Slightly better horsepower but the main difference in fuel ecomomy and torque lies in the engine size: 2.4 vs. 2.0 and 166lbs/ft and 139 lbst/ft respectively. Probably more get up and go and comfort in the tsx, amazing handling and nice rush after 6000rpms in the si. I say go si.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    very good description of the two cars- After owning a 91 Mazda MX-6 GT and a 1998 Eagle Talon TSI-AWD I think I now want something subdued. I did test drive both a si coupe and a tsx and guess what i did not wait for 08. I now own a Milano Red with Ebony int. TSX with Nav. 6 spd. Loving it so far but if i was younger the si would have been my choice. I still love to speed but have slowed down in my old age.
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    Glad your happy with your choice. Now for the fun part... so I just turned 44 am I older or younger that you nj2? My progression was from an 86 Prelude SI - 93 Ford Probe - and a more reserved but still fun to drive (TSX like) 99 VW Passat 5 speed. Now I've dialed down the refinement a couple notchs and dialed up the YEEHAW factor - it helped that my daughter now rides the bus to school so a four door is less important. To be honest part of my decision was based on the idea I might buy a less expensive car drive it for 4 years and then turn it over to my daughter (so I could get another new car :-). This plan may have one minor flaw in it because after my wife drove the Si once she said it's TOO fast and that our daughter is never going to drive it.

    If I hadn't purchased the Si my second choice would have been the Legacy GT which I personally think hits right between the TSX and the Si on the YEEHAW-REFINEMENT spectrum.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    You will have to guess how old I am- I will you one clue I can officially order from the senior menu at perkins as of this year. I tried to teach my daughter when she was younger how to drive manual transmission using the talon. She managed very well will starting out but got confused with trying to change the gears so she stuck with automatic. My tsx is now three days old and has over 1,000 miles on it. have a nice thanksgiving
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    1000 miles in three days? I can tell your slowing down!!! :-)

    My wife drove a manual Fiat Spyder in highschool but it wasn't as quick as the Civic (or as safe). Her attitude might change over time but well see.

    Enjoy the holidays in you new car!
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    I think I am slowing down. While driving on a local highway the other day a red civic si drove by and pulled in front of my car. it slowed down so I decided to pull into the left lane. As I was about to pass the si, it started to speed up. After they did that a few times and found out I did not want to race they gave up. There was a time not too long ago I would have loved the challenge but no longer. The car has only 1,600 miles on it in one week.
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    I'm not into racing - I do enjoy taking off ramps at higher than average rates and like to accelerate hard from stop lights but only up to my cruising speed which is about 5 over. Two nights ago I was out looking for some lonely stretchs of curvey country roads and found one with virtually no cross roads that runs next to an interstate for several miles it was quite fun.

    I haven't had anyone try to get me to race yet and I've had the car about a month. I thought I might get some attention from the younger modified tuner set but thankfully so far no one has tried to pick on me. That might be because of the new unmarked Dodge Charger State patrol that is working the main road on my commute to work. They had an article in the paper about that car a week ago... the trooper said he's had 4 people pull up along side him at stop lights and try to race him - I got a chuckle out of that!
  • kmccannkmccann Member Posts: 6
    After parking my TSX next to my mother's new 07 civic sedan in her garage over thanksgiving, I noticed that the civic has a longer wheelbase as well as a bit wider track (in the rear). Very interesting when you consider that the civic is a 'compact' and the TSX is considered 'midsize.' While turning you can definitely tell that in the civic, the front wheels are placed farther in front of the driver than in my TSX.

    I'm a 24 year old kid and chose a used TSX MT over a new Civic Si. I like that its a bit more refined, but is still as fun to drive as my my old del Sol VTEC. I disagree about the intake/exhaust sound comparison. The TSX has a sweet soundtrack, and IMO better than the Civic Si.
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    I'm just a tad older so my old rock and roll ears probably have lost some sensitivity that yours still posses. The exhaust sound in the Si is much louder than in the TSX that I drove. The TSX didn't make bad sounds just not loud as the Si in my opinion. Its up to each person to judge which they prefer. I just know I'm having a hard time getting really good mileage because I LOVE to wind the car out at least a couple times a day just to hear the great sounds over 6000 rpm!
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    It's probably a question of semantics, but I don't think the TSX is considered a mid-sized sedan, but more of a compact sedan. The USDM Accord or the Camry are true mid-size sedans.

    Using that distinction, it's not surprising that the TSX and Civic sedan are similar in size.
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    Late one night this past weekend I was giving a friend a ride in my Si and his comment was "man the ride smooths out when it's going 80 or 90" :-). He was impressed with the engine's ability to spin freely up to 8000. I only embarrassed myself once when I bounced off the rev limiter accelerating around a big right hand sweeper
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    The acura tsx is the euro accord, and i'm pretty sure its still a midsize.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    Yes, anyone on the planet who's read anything about this car knows it's based on the Euro Accord.

    Here in America it is not a midsize sedan, it's a compact sedan.
  • go_snail_gogo_snail_go Member Posts: 6
    I finally have a chance to buy a new car. My current vehicle is a Honda CRV that will soon be my daughter&#146;s first car. Now it&#146;s time for Dad to play. What would you buy, or recommend buying, if you were in the <$30k market and had the following criteria?

    Must be: 4 door, automatic, decent mpg, reliable, comfortable/confident at 80+ mph, and FUN to DRIVE.

    So far, I&#146;m considering the GTI (4dr), GLI, S40, TSX, WRX, Accord V6, and Legacy GT. Your advice, experience, or opinion would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    go_snail_go
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    If it were me, I'd go with the Accord or Legacy. The Automatic tranny is the killer here - it saps too much fun out of the smaller displacement cars.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I'd go with the Accord V6 or get the GTI or GLI with the DSG transmission. It'll shift faster in the auto mode and allow you to have some fun in the Tiptronic mode.

    But keep in mind, it's a VW. If you want stellar reliability, get the Accord. If you want some character and soul, get the VW.
  • mhattrupmhattrup Member Posts: 77
    I'd go Legacy GT over the Accord V6 - I think it's more fun to drive (more soul). I looked long and hard at an Accord coupe 6 speed last year and I just didn't like it even as much as the Legacy GT. I'd stay away from VW and Volvo but only because of my experience with my 99 Passat. I loved to drive that car but it just had too many things go wrong. Another car you might add to your list is the Accura TSX but or the new Mitsubishi Lancer Evo which is supposed to come out early in 07. But of the cars you listed I'd lean towards the Legacy GT. It has been the ONLY auto equiped car I would consider so far. I ended up buying a Civic Si Coupe in October so I'm regressing I guess (This Dad is having FUN ;-) but I still might go for the Legacy GT when the body is refreshed next year.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    How do you know this? Edmunds considers it a midsize (although they consider the rl a midsize to so i guess that doesn't mean much), but its porportions are more akin to the accord than the civic. Its not as long but its definetely a little bigger than the civic. Just because its brought to the us doesn't mean that it changes from midsize to compact. I know this could be argued over greatly, especially when the last time i checked, the ford mustang is considered a compact too, so if thats what ford says whatever; BUT, i'm pretty sure acura/honda considers their TSX a midsize.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I know this could be argued over greatly, especially when the last time i checked, the ford mustang is considered a compact too, so if thats what ford says whatever; BUT, i'm pretty sure acura/honda considers their TSX a midsize.

    The classification sizes are not determined by the manufacturer. It's the EPA that detemines the size based on interior volume.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    It's probably as much my opinion as anything. Who'd argue that the TSX, RL and Accord are in the same size class? Both the RL and Accord are bigger enough than the TSX for me to make a distinction, so I call the TSX a "compact" sedan. Is it small? No, but it's smaller than most of the sedans we call mid-sized in America.

    The Mustang is a coupe, so I'm not even sure why that was mentioned.
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    I'd go with the Accord V6 or get the GTI or GLI with the DSG transmission. It'll shift faster in the auto mode and allow you to have some fun in the Tiptronic mode.

    But keep in mind, it's a VW. If you want stellar reliability, get the Accord. If you want some character and soul, get the VW.


    The GLI looks like a real hoot. If it wasn't for VW's perceived lack of reliability, I'd seriously consider this as my next car. Hopefully, they've gotten things ironed out on this front.
  • xmontxxmontx Member Posts: 18
    I bought the 2007 civic si coupe. I love the car. Trying to compare the 2 different style cars is difficult. Obviously, TSX is at least $8-$10k more than the SI. Then you have to look at the class of each car. Definitely different; TSX true sedan type which can be compared easier to the Honda accord like one of the users had stated and the Civic SI is a compact car that is compared to the discontinued RSX. Although if money was not the issue. I would go for the civic SI sedan. It's more enjoyable to drive. And since you're not driving much from and to work, why not have fun in a tasteful, more energetic vehicle. It's a racing car in my opinion. It's made for harsh punishments without damage to the car. But if you're worried about "I'm too old looking to drive the SI", then I guess you can go with the TSX. I driven the TSX. No doubt it's a nice car. I wouldn't say it was the most fun car to drive. But it's classy, quiet and smooth.

    It comes down to the battle of: "Fun vs. Conservative"

    Both reliable cars too. Besides the interior plastic in the civic SI, it's just born to punish the road and once you hit the vtec, it screams for more. :-p
  • k5ldbk5ldb Member Posts: 62
    If it makes a difference, Acura salesperson and customer service are much much much better than Honda sales/service.

    Perhaps this is true as a generality however not as an absolute. Robert Doolittle, the internet manager for Gillman Honda in Houston, is one of the best. He not only takes good care of you during the sale but follows up afterward to be sure everything is good. I've dealt with him for over a decade now and have never been disappointed. As long as he's in the business I'll be calling on him when I want a Honda product.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    I think it depends on the dealer not the brand of car. the dealer i go to is excellant-sales and service-Vinart dealerships- they sell and service both hondas and acura along with hyundais and suzuki- I would give names but I will abide by the rules. We have bought numerous cars from this dealership over the years and never have been disappointed. If fact we moved 700 miles away but still deal with them.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I agree, it depends on the individual dealership, not the brand. Manufacturers do not control the attitudes of those who are actually selling the cars. Positive and negative experiences with any brand you can name are reported all over these forums. It's all up to the person who runs the individual dealership, not the brand name the store carries.

    I hope everyone will drop by our Dealer Ratings & Reviews feature and rate any and all shops you've dealt with, either for sales or service (or both). Help out your fellow community members by recording your experiences under the dealership's name.

    And btw nj2pa2nc, I appreciate your saying you will abide by the rules, but naming a dealership in a posting is not a problem. We welcome your feedback.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    what I meant was even though I could recommend different people that work at Vinart dealerships in PA I will not even though most of them from sales manager, sales, finance service manager, service advisors and even the techs are great. Yes there are a few that work there that I would not deal with. I did post in the dealer ratings. Thanks for your comments
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    actually the tsx and civic are quite similar, especially since the si comes in a sedan form. (comparing it to the rsx is kinda off in this regard too, sinc the rsx is technically a hatchback.)

    so if you were to compare a tsx to a si sedan, you almost have the same type of car: makes lots of hp for the engine size, high revving, fwd, handles well, excellent shifter.

    they are more alike than you think.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Actually, the similarities are only skin deep. The TSX is longer, wider, and has more interior passenger space than the Civic.

    The TSX also has a larger, more powerful engine that makes more usable power lower in the rev range (25 more lb ft of torque at 1600 lower RPM).

    The TSX also includes many features that the Civic doesn't have, such as heated leather seats, auto climate control, heated exterior mirrors, fog lights, auto-dim rearview mirror, homelink, HID headlights, and upscale interior trim materials.

    Most importantly though, the TSX has a superior double wishbone front suspension while the Civic makes due with McPherson struts up front. The TSX is also built a larger, more refined midsize car platform, so it is quieter, more comfortable, and has a more refined driveline (vibration, harshness, feedback).

    The Civic is sportier thanks to it's lighter weight, but overall, the TSX is a lot more car. Whether it's worth the additional $7,000 is up to the individual.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    I own a tsx but was considering getting the civic si sedan. the si sedan was not out yet so i bought the tsx-no regrets. love the way honda-acura shifts-very smooth. My brother, who owns an 07 volvo s-80 loved my tsx when I let him drive it. he said he wants MT in his next car.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    actually, everything you mentioned (interior materials, being quiter, fog lights and dimming mirrors) are whats sking deep.

    the fact that the si puts up better numbers with its macphersons says a lot too.

    i was just basically saying that they are almost the same car in their respecive segments: lightweight, high revving, nice interiors, and good handlers.

    I wasn't saying they are the same car, as i know they are on different platforms and that there is an obvious difference between the k20 and k24.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    The fact that the si puts up better number says it weighs less.

    But yes, I agree. All Honda's from the TSX to the S2000 share that light, nimble, high-revving character - that playful willingness to dance and their slick, refined control feedback.

    I've always loved the way Honda's feel below 8/10ths - they're very satisfying to drive.
  • iomaticiomatic Member Posts: 48
    I know you're not really bashing on the Si, but you can also rephrase what you've said in yet another subjective way:

    Actually, the similarities are only skin deep. The TSX is a heftier car: longer, wider, and heavier by 400lbs.; but has more interior passenger space than the Civic.

    The TSX also has a larger, slightly more powerful engine that makes more usable power lower in the rev range (25 more lb ft of torque at 1600 lower RPM) to carry all that extra weight. Yet the Si has 1 ft-lb. more torque to weight, thus negating the TSX's slight power advantage.

    Most importantly though, the TSX has a double wishbone front suspension while the Civic has sports-oriented McPherson struts up front, much like other performance sports-compacts like the BMW 3-series, and Porsches. The TSX is also built a larger, more refined midsize car platform, so it is quieter, more comfortable, and has a more refined driveline (vibration, harshness, feedback)-- unless of course you're a sports-compact enthusiast who needs immediate road feedback, and the superior cornering and handling abilities of the Si.

    The Civic is sportier thanks to its lighter weight, and better handling, but overall, the TSX has a lot more features for a larger car. Whether it's worth the additional $7,000 is up to the individual.

    Thought I might inject another perspective. :)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Good points (except for citing BMW and Porsche's continued use of the antiquated and inferior McPherson Strut Suspension). No, I'm not bashing the Civic - I think it's a great car.

    If you have followed the various TSX related forums for any period of time, you would know that people often drop in to comment that the TSX is simply a civic with leather seats, or some other similar nonsense.

    While that's not the case here, it was a good opportunity for me to point out how they are completely different cars, with a different mission and demographic - and point out the reasons why the TSX costs $7,000 more than the Civic Si.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    they may cater to a different demographic, but they have a lot of similarities with regards to how they perform in that demographic. (good handling, high revving, good road feel, nice interior.)

    I don't know why people think the tsx is just a leather clad civic though...if anything its just a european accord. But the civic and it are on a different chassis.

    but they are similiar in their respective segments.
  • nwalbertnwalbert Member Posts: 49
    The fourth paragraph sort of takes away any credibility this post may have had.

    The bottom line is that these two vehicles are going to appeal to two completely different markets, and this offer completely different feature sets at different price points.

    Trying to determine which is "better" is silly, unless you narrow it to specific tasks. The TSX is better at driving around town, or transporting clients. The Si is probably better at some things, although nothing really comes to mind right now.
  • eldainoeldaino Member Posts: 1,618
    The Si is probably better at some things, although nothing really comes to mind right now.

    handling? fuel economy? lower cost to own? cheaper to buy?

    ;)
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Member Posts: 60
    I drive an O6', TSX/wnav, aspec ebony finish split 5 spoke. As much as I love the Civic Si, in Canada it is called the Acura CSX (which also has a type S). I've driven the Type S Acura CSX (ala 4 door civic Si) and loved it. The 150Hp version of the Acura CSX felt very weak when I drove it. However, as quick as the Type S feels after 5000rpm, I found the road noise and road feel to harsh for my tastes. Ya, it handles well, but getting back in my TSX afterwards, there is a very big difference in luxury, quietness, smootheness of the engine and in the Acura CSX, I had a sore [non-permissible content removed] after about 45 minutes of driving. The TSX has good pull from 3000rpm upward, felt like more usable power to me (with a very cool throaty growl around 4000rpm). The Civic Si/CSX was a blast after 5000rpm, but the screaming engine was a bit too much for me for everyday driving. Both great cars, but drive them back to back, it's luxury, sporty and smoothe vs firm riding, street racer fury. Both fun...just depends what you're into.
  • iomaticiomatic Member Posts: 48
    The fourth paragraph sort of takes away any credibility this post may have had.

    In what way? Keep in mind I was only rewriting parts of the earlier post to counterpoint somewhat subjective statements, and injecting my own brand of subjectivity. There's no credibility to be had, either way.

    :P

    They are two different cars for different tastes.

    :)
  • tundradudetundradude Member Posts: 588
    I considered a Civic SI myself, but my wife did not warm up to it. We got the TSX.

    I felt that a SI would be close in nature to my 89 Corolla GTS that I used to have. However, the TSX is a nice road car. I still have my xB.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Member Posts: 1,724
    The Civic Si is substantially cheaper too! I would imagine a bit more fun. Though the TSX is geared more for luxury sedan, the Si is geared more for sport appeal. Really 2 different types of cars.

    So in a way, you got a more fun car for a cheaper price. Still a Honda.
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