Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
will go ahead and order a set from tire rack
Thanks for any help you can provide.
2. Depending on if you have BMW install your non-run flat tires, or Joe Schmoe's Tire Shop, will depend determine to a large degree if your rims get scratched when the new tires are put on the rim. BMW service shops have a special tire machine and/or they take far better care (generally) when replacing your old tires with new and are much less likely to scratch your rims (so I was told).
3. The BMW factory Run Flats are the finest match for road grip - bar none. The down side? They only go about 20,000 miles before you start experiencing a lot of tire leaks and then losing your grip on acceleration or wet roads. If you try to drive on summer tires when the temps dip much below 37 F or especially 32 F (freezing), your car will drive as if possessed in the movie 'The Exorcist' until they warm up in 5-10 minutes (which accelerates wear on the tires - lord only knows what it does for wear on the suspension and steering linkages). I'm talking about the end of the world violent shaking of the steering wheel at any speeds over 10-25 mph. Perhaps she smooths right out at speeds over 100 mph, but I never wanted to test it - I never got over 35 mph like that (lol).
I bought a pair of non-run flats after 32,000 miles on my Factory Equipped run-flats (and they should have been replaced around 22,000 miles). But the non-run flats have about 95% of the grip on dry roads, twice the grip on wet roads and double the service life. I have 25,000 miles on my non run flats and not one single tire leak (knock on wood). I'm just getting ready to rotate them for the next 25,000 miles. Plus, they are all season radials and they go in snow (unlike the orginal BWM summer tires). I absolutely love them.
My advice, wait until you really need a new set of tires before making the switch to non-run flat. When you do, you will never look back. (oh, did I mention I got the entire set for $400 and mounted for $10/tire!). I can't tell you what a pain in the butt it was putting air in the run flat tires every few days, then using flat fix to get me through another few months. Plus, you get to laugh at the service rep at your 15,000 mile service interval that trys to sell you "Nitrogen Air Fill" for your tires to stop the likelihood of slow leaks. Since changing to non-run flats, I haven't had a single slow leak, a single problem and will never go back again. (half the price and zero of the worries - teehee)
Okay, again - if you keep "your baby" in the garage 9 months of the year and only take it out on Sundays and wipe it with a diaper - stick with the Run Flats. But if you are in the snow and ice belt and want to drive your car year round - go with non-run flat all season radials. I still take curves at twice the "suggested" limit and never have a problem (knock on wood).
I ran over a ***** pothole today and the sidewall of one of my front tires blew a hole (or tear). I'm considering a non-run flat because it seems like they perform better...(I agree...when it rains I actually don't always feel confident about the traction).
Which brand tire did u buy and I'm assuming you took it to some body shop to replace?
thanks so much!
Calvin
I have an 05 Z4 Sport w/18 wheels. I live in Northern VA so we do get the best/worst of weathers here. Had to replace the factory RFT's (which are summer tires) recently thanks to a flat. I replaced them with All season performance Non-RFT's which were a fraction of the cost and the ride has improved tremendously. I now have Falken ZIEX 912 in the front and ZIEX 512 for the rear tires.
1) The first tire dealer I went tried to sell me All season Michelin Sports tires which were $250-$350 Front/Rear bringing the total cost to $1450 (Incl.a Difficult Installation charge of $60 for all 4 tires?! given they had to remove RFT's). I told them I would get back to them. I then proceeded to call Tires Plus.
2) Tires plus has Falken's for $140 (front tires only).I decided to take a chance with them, I had both tires replaced and discarded the RFT's. I decided to research online for the rear tires and found the Falken ZIEX 512's for $160 each plus free shipping at Discounttiredirect.com.
I'll admit I had never heard of Falken prior to purchase but having made the switch I couldn't be happier. The OEM Bridgestone RFT's were ridiculous with me having to pump air every week at least once in addition to them being prone to damage easily. The switch to Non-RFT's were definitely worth it without breaking the bank.
Answer: YOKOHAMA Avid 4's
Size: P225/50R16 91V
Car: BMW Z4 2004 (2.5 liter) still like new and I'm still milin and smilin.
Cost: $89 a tire from tire rack
Mounting and Balancing: $10/tire cash paid to one of the service guys at BJ's Wholesale Club. Satisfaction with putting the new tires on? Ya get what ya pay for. 2 of the 4 rims have a thin scratch because they didn't have the special "BMW" tool. But I was able to get 97% of the scratch off with a magic eraser pad and some heavy elbow grease.
Satisfaction with the Tires: AWESOME!!!!
I've got 38,000 miles on these tires now. I rotated them after 30,000 miles and they still grip great and have plenty of tread left. Okay, the back tires do cut loose a tad more than when new if I tromp on it on wet roads from a stop light. Apart from that, I really think I'm going to get close to 60,000 miles off these and no complaints. I can't imagine a better tire for the long haul and all season too. Price, Value, Performance - unsurpassed by any other.
On a crowned road, the steering pulls "downhill". If I hit a bump or pothole, the steering abruptly pulls to one side then the other. If there is a seam that runs parallel to the direction of travel, the wheels grab onto the seam. The steering feels jittery, twitchy and unpredictable. It's impossible to drive in town without worrying that the car may lurch into a curb or a hit parked car. So I drive with a "death grip" on the wheel.
I took the Z4 back to the dealer 4 times in 18 months, each time expecting the problem to be fixed. First the alignment was re-adjusted (apparently it was incorrectly aligned to M-model specs). On later service appointments, the alignment was checked again. Tire pressures checked. Nothing helped.
Frustrated, I took my car to an independent BMW garage. After a test drive, the shop owner confirmed the problem. He asked if the run-flat performance-rated tires (Bridgestone RFT (225/45 R17 front, 245/40 R17 rear) had ever been evaluated as a possible cause. To my knowledge, "no".
So I took the car to a second Denver BMW dealer. After hearing my concerns, the service manager said he thought the tires were causing the problem. So he swapped tires with another Z4 on the lot. After the swap, my car drove normally once again. Oh, happy day!!! But he had to swap them back. So I drove home with a jumpy car.
Now I'm headed back to the original dealer to see if I can get them to replace the tires. I think I'm entitled to new ones. The original set was covered for defects by a $750 tire policy I bought when I took delivery. The dealer may try to weasel out of that. Plus I don't know what to do about Run-Flat Tires. Does anyone have enough experience with this issue to know that RFT's are (or are not) part of the problem. Or is it the "performance" design of the tire? Or is it because they are Bridgestone tires? Or is it just a bad set of tires?
I would appreciate any advice, especially on how to get the dealer to "man-up" and take responsibility for replacing all four tires. I want to feel safe on the road and with spring just around the corner (maybe) I want to enjoy the ride again!
I think the issue is made worse with the run flats. Run flats let you feel the road surface more, every bump, every pull and ridge. Its all trade offs. I have 50,000 miles now on my Yokohama's AVID 4 all season radials. They grip better than ever on clean dry roads, there's still an 1/4 inch tread left - but I can't take the car out if its snowing - I mean at all. It was fine up until about 40,000 miles, but no snow/ice handling at all now. I'm trying to get them to stretch to May. I hate getting tires more often than once every 2 years - but then at $500 for a set of 4 mounted and balanced - I have no complaints.
I've got 80,000 miles on my 04 Z4 and have yet to need an alignment. I've hit some pretty bad pot holes and a curb once - but this car rides true and straight without pull or side wall wear. I think the car is a marvel of engineering perfection. Only the ridge affect is all I've noticed and it is minor since I dropped the run flats.
Good Luck.
I wish I could agree with you about the steering. But I'd rather have predictable steering than a car that tramlines with every defect in the road. As far as I'm concerned, this is a serious safety issue. If I can't get it resolved fairly soon with new tires, this baby is going bye-bye! Why would I want to take tight corners at high speed if I end up hitting the curb or another car!
Thanks,
Cliff
I asked a lot of questions and did a bunch of reading over a 6-month period because I could not get answers from BMW. I finally replaced the OEM tires with the same brand/model but in a newer design about a month ago. My Z4 runs a little smoother but it still does not handle the gaps and seams in the road as easily as I would like. OEM tires were Bridgestone Potenza 225/45 R17. The new tires are exactly the same except they're Generation II. BMW is putting Gen III tires on the new Z4's but said they were unable to get those shipped to the dealership yet as replacements. That may change by summer.
In the meantime, you may want to consider a non-runflat tire option. One tire dealer recommended that route if I wanted a really smooth ride. The downside is that you need to carry a can of tire inflator plus some sealant or "slime" to enable you to get to a repair shop in the event of a flat.
If you'd like, I'd be happy to share the full text of an article by an auto writer about testing runflat tires on BMW's. It's pretty interesting background and provides a glimpse of the future of runflat tires.
Let me know if I can be of more help!
Cliff
I assume from your note that you have hydraulic steering on your '06 Z4, is that correct? The electronic steering on my '07 Z4 may be a contributing factor to the tramlining I experience. BMW seems to be going electronic on many components to provide more feedback to the driver and more precise control. But as a real amateur about these things, that may also mean more feedback than I really want.
In response to my handling concerns, the dealer performed several alignment checks & adjustments. They also re-calibrated something called the steering angle sensor. Apparently this is another electronic device that constantly monitors the direction in which the front wheels are pointing. Again more feedback to the steering wheel.
I will send you a copy of the 3G runflat article directly to your email address along with a couple of additional comments so we can avoid doing all this sign-in stuff.
Have fun with your new toy, especially now that spring is here--at least it's supposed to be. We had a good shot of snow here in Denver two days ago but it may finally warm up enough this weekend to get our tomato plants in the ground!
It would be great if you could share the info right here in the forums too -- I'm guessing a lot of people would be interested.
ClaireS, Host
Automotive News & Views | Coupes & Convertibles
MODERATOR
Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bridgestone 3G RFT Tires take the shock out of run-flats
by Michael Harley on Jul 6th 2009
Compared to a conventional tire, the construction of a self-supporting run-flat requires additional material thickness in the sidewalls to prevent the tire's collapse once it has lost pressure. It is this additional reinforcement that adds weight, reduces ride comfort, and increases rolling resistance (these characteristics are the kiss-of-death to performance).
Consumers embraced the additional mobility and safety benefits of the 2G RFT, but they never warmed to the handling compromises as a result of the additional unsprung weight, the harsh ride (the sidewalls are a noticeable 15 percent harder than a conventional tire, says Bridgestone), or the expensive replacement cost (up to 30 percent higher, in some cases). Frustrated, many vehicle owners exchanged their run-flat tires with conventional tires even before it was time for their replacement.
Bridgestone research and prowess resulted in three new cutting-edge technologies:
Unique ply construction: The reinforcing layers of a tire are called the "ply." Bridgestone developed a tire ply that uses the heat generated by a deflated tire to contract and curb deformation. In simple terms, the material in the new sidewalls automatically shrinks to abate damage from abrasion and heat. When the tire cools, the ply automatically returns to its original state.
New rubber compounds: Laboratory-engineered rubber compounds, Bridgestone calls them "NanoPro-Tech," are also used in the sidewalls to limit heat. Conventional tire compounds warm through friction between the carbon and polymers (two common tire ingredients). By optimally distributing the polymers, friction and heat are minimized.
Innovative heat control: Bridgestone developed so-called "cooling fin" technology for the new tire. Molded into the sidewall are small protrusions (think of them as miniature spoilers). While this seems rather rudimentary, they effectively disrupt the airflow at the surface to help radiate heat and cool the tire.
Bridgestone encouraged us to try its new third-generation run-flat (3G RFT) from behind the wheel. Strapped in near identical late-model BMW 5 Series vehicles, Bridgestone offered us the opportunity to drive three variants of its high-performance RE050A tire: Conventional, 2G RFT, and 3G RFT.
We drove the conventional RE050A first. A high-performance tire fitted to such cars as the Nissan 370Z and Lexus IS-F, the standard rubber was comfortable on the smooth sections. The course/rough pavements didn't provide much of a challenge either as the compliant sidewalls absorbed the abuse without drama.
Next, we tried a set of RE050A "2G" run-flats. While they were comfortable on the smooth sections, the compromises of the 2G run-flats were immediately evident when we entered the first sections of rough pavement. What had been damped by shock-absorbing sidewalls on the standard tires was now transferred into the cabin in the form of sharp, and rather uncomfortable, impacts. This test reinforced what many owners have expressed and what we have personally experienced.
The final run through the test course was done with the all-new RE050A "3G" run-flats. Eureka! Surprising even the skeptics among us, the third-generation tires were nearly imperceptible in ride quality from the standard tires (non run-flat) we had driven on merely minutes earlier. The ride was very comfortable. According to Bridgestone, test instruments reveal that the slight difference in ride quality was a near-imperceptible 5 percent change in harshness.
Another fleet of late-model BMW 5 Series vehicles were fitted with 2G RFT and 3G RFT tires for back-to-back comparisons. The roads were in fairly lousy condition, but they again demonstrated the newfound compliance one can expect with the third-generation run-flat.
The track sessions and test drives made it clear that Bridgestone has eliminated the biggest objection to run-flat tires – abusive ride quality. We never had an opportunity to push the performance envelope of the tire, but Bridgestone says the tread compound of the RE050A 3G RFT is identical to that on the conventional tire, so the grip levels should be very high.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But wait, there's more to the story:
There are two "However's" and one "Therefore" to add to my post. However #1: The dealer could not get their hands on 3G RunFlats, even though the factory is currently delivering 2010 Z4's with them installed. So they installed 2G's all around on my Z4. However #2: The 2G's did not make a noticeable improvement in handling.
Therefore #1: After driving on the 2G's for a month and finding the Z4 still incredibly difficult to handle, I traded it in and bought a new Lexus IS 250C. After three very frustrating years of coping with "superior German engineering" that never translated into an enjoyable driving experience, I'm now a very happy man. Plus I now have two more seats, a slick convertible hardtop and a ton of goodies that actually make driving fun--for the about the same $$.
I hope others have better success . . .
Looking to buy '08. Plan to buy the Blizzak tires. I am on a budget
The 2007 Z4 came with 17 x 8.0 in. wheels with 225/45R W tires.
If you you have different sizes, they are courtesy of the person you bought your car from.
Sorry... :sick:
My 07 Z4 Coupe (completely optioned out) has different sized tires between the front and back. It came from the factory that way, and I purchased it new.
The plus side is larger rear tires with smaller tires in the front looks cool as ever - almost dragster like.
The down side is you can't rotate the tires (ugh). At the end of the day, I think I'll stick with my size 17s front and rear.
As said before, while some sports cars and novelty cars were made with off size tires, it still doesn't dissuade me from my original premise, it is uncommon for standard production cars to be made with different sized front and rear tires.
Why? It costs more, it generally doesn't improve handling and it limits ones ability to "rotate" tires extending tread wear life. Does this stop car makers from doing it. No. Why? Because they think it may increase the look and appeal; hence, sales for certain sports-oriented car designs.
Speaking of the MR2, back in the mid-80's, the MR2 was one of the finest handling fun sports car gems available at a reasonable price. A friend of mine had a red one with black rag top. Riding in it was so much fun I took a dealership test ride. Both were white-knuckled experiences that took hours to wipe the smile off my face. The combination of top of the line handling performance, Toyota reliability and top down fun for thousands of dollars less than its competition made it second to none in my book. Unfortunately, I was starting a family at the time and it wasn't practical.
This is why the market for pure 2 seaters is very limited - practicality. If you enjoy driving the twisties without slowing down, get yourself an old MR2 with a new set of rubber - you won't be disappointed. :shades:
Then again, older now, I'm not planning to let go of my BMW Z4 anytime soon. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
Still, 42K is very low mileage. Probably the only thing the car should need (if not already done) is brake pads, rotors and tires - possibly an oil change. You don't have to go to BMW for these repairs. You can save from 10-50% off what the dealer's typically charge by finding a good mechanic. Get four good A A A rated 50K non-run flat all season tires off the internet for under $400. Balanced and mounted for $40 to $80 depending where you get them mounted. Be careful where because BMW rims scrap easily unless a touchless tire mounting system is used.
Next comes regular service. A Lube/Oil/Filter I recommend every 7,500 miles (ignore the 15,500 mileage counter for service - it doesn’t include LOF). You may hear the car can go 15,500 miles between synthetic oil changes - it really depends on how you drive, but you're likely to experience valve or other problems as the car nears 70K-100K if you neglect regular LOF. An LOF costs $100 or $200 at most BMW dealerships. Four rotors and pads is going to cost you something like $800, but you can get it done for hundreds less if you know a good mechanic, a friend or do it yourself. Every 15K miles, the car needs a full service which run $200-$400 (depending where you go to have it done). The major service is required typically every 30K miles. This runs about $1,000 to $2,000.
After about 7 years, the head light cover gaskets dry out and take a set. If a bulb burns out, you need to replace either the gasket or the headlight cover that comes with a new gasket. Otherwise, you'll be replacing bulbs every 3-6 months as moisture keeps collecting in the headlight. You may also need a new battery. I replaced mine for around $140 and it's twice the battery that comes stock with Z4s.
There’s a reason that BMW offers free service the first 50K or 4 years – they are bloody expensive cars to maintain. I have put about 25K on my Z4 a year the last 6 years. I can tell you that the Honda Civic I drove for the 10 years prior cost me about a quarter of what this car does in maintenance. but at the same time – this car is 20 times more fun to drive! (even more so as a daily commuter.)
Way I figure it, you only live this life once - you might as well enjoy it. Treat others well, but always be true to yourself. Good Luck.
- new battery
- new starter
- variety of belts
- light fixture housings
Fun to drive but echo the high TCO of BMWs. Be sure to look for sources other than auth BMW service centers for big discounts on parts and labor.
If this is your every day car or you are trek more than 10K a year, definitely go with non-RFTs. Advantage is they can cost half as much and last 2-4 times as long. The disadvantage is you may lose 2-10% of cornering grip (depending on temperature and dryness).
Unless you are rich or race with a sponsor, it's probably not in your interest to use RFTs.
RunFlat tires are not necessarily rapid wear tires. And the opposite is also not true - that Non-RunFlat tires are good wearing tires.
The wear properties of tires is independent of whether or not the tire is a RunFlat - as is the traction properties. (Although it is true that many RunFlats only come in high traction varieties, which also means they don't wear well.)
I hope that clears up the distinction.
However and from my experience, the ‘feel’ of the Run Flat tire for an equal rated non-Run Flat tire is different. It ‘feels’ like the Run Flat tire affords better traction, but a stiffer ride over bumps. I don’t have anything statistical or accelerometer ratings to support this. They are simply my observations.
Don’t think we ever left the same page, but happy we are back on it again now.