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Comments
So what? Is there sample model too small or does their data collection and analysis methods produce skewed or incorrect results? Can you prove it or is this just a gut feeling? Are Consumer Report readers proven to be less reliable or truthful than any other person off the street?
A biased sample causes problems because any statistic computed from that sample has the potential to be consistently erroneous.
If entire segments of the population are excluded from a sample, then there are no adjustments that can produce estimates that are representative of the entire population.
By only selecting from CR subscribers there is an inherent bias. Only the demographic represents subscribers is utilized. The number of responses for some vehicle models is not statistically large enough to produce accurate results.
If there aren't enough responses for a specific model, CR doesn't publish results for that model.
2005 Honda odyssey:
replaced both lower control arms in warranty. Steering still vibrates at 70 mph, after changing over 3 sets of tires, and numerous balancing.
Lexus rx300:
I had to fight with the great Toyota motor company to fix silencer vibration so bad that it would be booming and irritating at idle speeds. For 6 months they refused to fix it since there was nothing broken to fix. I had to threaten to take them to court for them to fix it.
Every now and them all the lights(VSC, TCS, check engine, etc) on the dash will start blinking. Will go away after 24 hrs. No idea what is causing it yet.
Mazda6: u r right about the recalls. But that was not because it was unreliable. Not in my case. Reliable in my case means that the car does leave me stranded in the middle of the road or does not have any safety related issues.
There is no frigging rust on the body. What everybody thought as rust was nothing but soapy lubricant changing color when exposed to the weather :sick:
The key to any car, at all, is to keep the car maintained properly, do the proper maintenance on it and address any problems it does develop quickly so that they don't become bigger issues. This makes some people mad because they don't understand why they have to replace an air filter or get their transmission flushed. Tough crap. It's a highly complex machine with thousands and thousands of parts. It's gonna have maintenance.
Followed all the maintenance as suggested by the dealer.
Crap in, crap out.
This car has given me more problems that all my previous cars combined, which were all fords. Sorry if that upsets people with emotional feelings towards their car.
What year is your Mazda6?
Are the subscribers to CR not representative of the population at large? Is there some trait or demographic that is inherant to CR subscribers?
I understand what you're saying but doesn't any survey automatically exclude some members of a population either by the number of surveys sent or by the "types" of people that respond?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/07/automobiles/autoreviews/07AUTO.html
Chrysler 300 and Dodge Charger (RWD)
2009: 370 hp, 398 pounds-feet of torque, 16/24 mpg city/highway
2008: 340 hp, 390 pounds-feet, 15/23
I'm not a fan of Chrysler products but doesn't it seem like the 2009 Mazda6, which probably weighs less, should get better MPG with a V6 and 272hp. It's rated at 17/25. That's a lousy 1 mpg better. What gives?
Remember, those are big displacement engines that run at very very low RPM's at cruising speeds. They typically run at 1,500 RPM's at 65-70mph.
This car has given me more problems that all my previous cars combined, which were all fords. Sorry if that upsets people with emotional feelings towards their car.
I am sure u do realize that this 2003-2008 Mazda6s (v6) was made by Ford in the USA by the UAW. The v6 engine is also a pure Ford block with the head tuned by Mazda to make it peppy / rev happy.
and when you say your transmission failed, did it truly fail or was it just misbehaving every now and then?
And just an FYI, the toyota Camry powertrain for the new Camry v6 was even worse as it would rev the engine and slam into gears. But hey, it is a toyota after all :sick:
I know people with Nissans and Toyotas who have never had a single problem with their cars.
I am familiar with the Toyota Camry V6 transmission problems.
The car rental company told me the Toyotas for them have been the most reliable.
We just need to be aware that Mazda's most important priority isn't quality.
I have been considering the new Mazda6 2009 but I am just not sure that I can trust that brand again.
Even in the Edmunds review they say the dash on the passengers side is made with cheap quality plastic.
It just makes me wonder what else have they cheaped out on.
Another review I read stated that in testing they did a hard stop and in doing so broke the brake pedal. Not a good sign.
Not to argue with you, however, those brands are known for having problems too. I know plenty of people that have had issues with them.
We just need to be aware that Mazda's most important priority isn't quality.
Well, read every review and you will see how "quality" was Mazda's first priority. Mazda has stated that over and over.
Even in the Edmunds review they say the dash on the passengers side is made with cheap quality plastic.
If soft to touch materials is considered "cheap", then even Lexus, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz are as well.
It's obvious you have never even stepped foot in one. The car is totally different. It's quality is much much better then the 1st gen. I own one as well.
Can you cite the source for this review? There are requirements from the US federal government concerning how this type of thing should be reported.
In any case, it sounds like you've decided this isn't the vehicle for you, even though it sounds as if you've never seen, felt, ridden in or driven it. Given your ability to judge vehicles through osmosis, there are a plethora of other choices.
My complaint is I couldn't find a manual transmission with sunroof configuration.
made or stupid Ford made???
Are you asking if they are built in the United States like the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord? Or are you asking if they are assembled by union labor?
BTW what is a "stupid Ford made?"
This was because they were clubbing the old piece of junk 626 reliability data with the 2003+ Mazda6. :shades:
It wouldn't surprise me if there are some Mazda dealers posting replies here.
Yes I have test driven the new 2009 Mazda 6 and I actually like the first generation's dash better than the second generation, otherwise a very nice engine and much better turning radius and great satellite radio. Mixed feelings about the exterior, can't help feeling mine looks better.
I am offering an objective critique on a machine, which is all it is, rather, trying not too passionate about something which is after all only a car.
Although I do like the car, the quality of build is not on par with Honda or Nissan, in my opinion that is, is just does not feel as solid.
You remind me of another poster who dished out abuses about the 2003+ Mazda6 just like this.......he even started a process to sue Mazda for the "rust" problem... :sick:
Very good. Then don't buy one. Why are your trying to IMPOSE your dislike on others?
Now don't say you are doing this good deed for the benefit of others :sick:
I guess I have had a different experience, as I am looking forward to getting out of my '07 Accord with its "tri-color" mis-matched dash (apparently all the different plastic parts of the dash fade in the sun at different rates), antiquated audio system, and razor thin sheet metal (every oil change has to be on a Wednesday because that is the day the PDR guy is there) and into something more fun.
That said, the failure to package the manual transmission with any options like a sunroof or leather will keep me on the bench with the Mazda6.
I am curious why you might feel that way given the awards the Ford motors have received. I am also curious since one of the biggest issues with the previous generation 626/MX6/Probe was the automatic transmission, and it was a Mazda sourced unit.
I believe that to be a horrible mistake, i.e., a Japanese car with American engine and transmission! Put me down all you want to, but that is a huge BLUNDER! Does anyone know if Mazda is placing stupid Ford engines and transmissions in the '09 Mazda6s?
I meant no offense by my question and wasn't "putting anyone down;" I think its a matter of ignorance and a need for education about how vehicles and their components are designed and developed. Hyundai, Chrysler, and Mitsubishi all use the same motor. GM/Isuzu provided vehicles to Honda/Acura, etc.
The V6 in the 2009 mazda6 is virtually identical to that in the CX-9 and is made entirely in Japan. So is the transmission for both the v6 and 4 cyl. The 4 cylinder is a bored out, retuned version of the 2.3 liter motor from the previous generation Mazda6 which was always lauded as smooth reving and fun, if a little underpowered and thirsty. Both fuel economy and power got a boost when they turned it into the 2.5
FYI Mazda actually does by far the most manufacturing in Japan between them, toyota, honda and Nissan. (please, no comments on the B-series truck or tribute, everyone knows what they are).
The "cheap plastic" on the dash spoken of is on the driver's side, not the passengers. And it is only cheap because it is not soft touch. Looking at it, it is identical, and unless you're poking at it to poke at it, you'll never touch it. This is why it was used there, while the passenger side where people may touch or rest their feet is soft.
If you want a stick shift with leather, give me a call. We have an I Grand Touring with moonroof and bose due this week. The initial 20 cars most dealerships got were ones they didn't order. Now we're getting the ones we did. Currently, the only real restriction on sticks is you can get the light interiors with them (no big loss imho) and if you want a car with a moonroof, you need either a GT or convenience pack. Since it sounds like you want leather and a roof, we've got that coming. These will ease up as the launch get's further along. I hate to say though I haven't had a single person come in and ask to drive the stick shift yet though... =( And we have one to drive too....
The Chrysler products do well on the EPA tests for the same reason Mazda's don't. They're tuned for it. As many have noted, the EPA takes notice of things like VCM and Cylinder deactivation and uses that in it's equations. So when you have a huge v8, that can run at 55-60 mph with 4-5 cylinders off and at 1500 rpm, mathematically, it should return pretty darn good fuel economy. The same applies for vehicles with a CVT. In practice, many of these things provide a marginal improvement in practice because they are all technologies that work in optimal settings. Traffic and driver habits have a way of not being optimal. As Mazda probably ranks fuel economy about 3rd or 4th on their lift of priorities in designing a car, they don't tune it to pass a test. Thus bad test numbers, and numbers on par with the others IRL. Mazda officials have stated as much saying something to the effect of "We're confident our real world fuel economy will be competitive".
S Plan itself is a nationwide program. Whether the rebate applies and how much it is for depends on the individual area's stairstep program. Ours was 500 last month, 400 things month. In fact everything dropped to 400 this month except 3's which are down to 200 and CX-9's up to 750. S Plan can always be combined with any other national program.
The commercial will begin airing tomorrow night during monday night football. Anyone with M-Drive access can view the 60 second and 30 second spots. I won't post them here for obvious reasons.
Oh, and if anyone read through the NY times article, well, the last line basically seemed to say the car is ahead of everything and in a class with a TL, not an accord.
Don't think you meant osmosis. He would have had to touch it for that to happen, correct?
The numbers on the I4 are decent however.
U are sleeping my friend.....MAzda6 has been using the Ford Duratec Engine since 2003 with no notable problems whatsoever.
They really need to get better gas milage though, because both honda and Toyota are much better for this.
Transmissions though I have been told are sub par, a lot of failures prematurely. Mine being one of them. The Nissan transmissions are fantastic, CVT.
I knew it there are dealers in here, of course you can all trust the word of a SalesMan.
As usual, of course there are salespeople that are bad, just as there are customers. I've been lied to blatantly by people, and it's not like we don't see through the lies. The best thing to do is find a dealership someone you know recommends and has bought at least two cars from. Preferably a specific salesperson too. Do your research, then go to the dealership. The Mazda dealership I work at now is actually the second one I've worked at. However, the first one was old school, evil, and as I learned more about the car industry, I learned two things. One, I can't deal with a place with the old school mentality. Two, I couldn't in good conscious sell another product. For my tastes, and I am one of those salespeople who let's their taste dictate their sales a lot, Mazda makes the best cars on the road. The 3 is superior to me to the corolla and civic, the 6 is now superior to the accord and camry, Miata, RX-8, CX-7 and CX-9... I've never sold a B-series truck, and only one tribute because I am not a good liar, so I can't talk up things I don't believe in. But our core products are almost all considered best in class by the press and that's what I can believe in.
Ford renamed the Mazda desgined MZR to Duratec 23
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratec_engine
The Duratec 3.7 or Cyclone was designed by Ford and is build by both Mazda and Ford. Mazda labels this engine the MZI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cyclone_engine
People in general consider the I4's to be Mazda engines and the V6 Ford Engines.
The beige interior was quite a turn off for me, because of the way the contrasting dark and beige colors were mixed, especially the inside of the doors. The interior on the drive side felt cheap and not as solid as that of my CX-9. The passenger side was quite alright.
The auto key unlocks when you come near the car - you can hear the beep when it unlocks - so you can just pull the handle to open the door and get in. But once it didn't really unlock and at that time pressing the button on the handle didn't unlock it either, hopefully a minor glitch and not a frequent annoyance. Anyone else who owns the car had this issue?. As someone here astutely pointed out the lack of any kind of storage in front of the shifter for a quick storage of your phone etc is a bad idea imo. Also sat in the back seat and found the room there just incredible. Amazing how they made such a big car look (and to an extent feel) much smaller.
I was a bit worried over the Mazda's reliability, although this is a new model so there's no real feedback in that regard yet. Another big factor was the dealer. The salespeople are great there, but I very much question whether I'd receive like treatment from the service department. I saw a service manager yelling at a customer on one visit and a google search increased my concern. The Honda dealer I trust as it is the third vehicle I bought from them.
What exactly is lacking with build quality on the 09 6 that isn't with the accord? It seems as though people are having some issues with the 08 Accord (ie sound in the cabin, i4 headlights flickering). There is not a car in the $20-30k price range that is perfect, every car has its flaws, though most are small and won't leave you stranded on the side of the road.
I have test driven the new 6 and found it enjoyable. I'm not looking for a new car but do like to keep up with what is in the market. I'd bet if they took the Mazda badge off & put a Honda badge on the new 6 you'd be saying how great it is. Because you got unlucky with a car you now seem to think every car built by Mazda is junk and can't compete with any other brand.
Also, please cite the review that you had mentioned about the brake pedal breaking when they did a hard stop on the new 6. I looked a little and couldn't find any review that stated they broke the brake pedal.
Thanks.
The 6-speed automatic is made by Aisin, who also produces trannys for Toyota, and used to build them for Honda.
The 5-speed auto is built by Jatco I believe, who also produces all of Nissans transmission, with CVT being the exception. For many many years, Mazda and Nissan had similar trannys in there vehicles. Jatco (Japanese Transmission Company) was at one time a joint venture by Mazda and Nissan.
The older Mazda 6 transmissions, mainly in the V6, had issues. The later models were ok. Very similar to what Honda went through in 2000-2004
It's those vehicles that bring the Mazda brand image down. However, in actuality, the Tribute has been a very good reliable car, out side of the 01-02. I almost never see them in the shop.
Seems like Edmunds thinks the Mazda6 is the new benchmark.....
Yes, that would be FIRST place, over the almighty Accord and Altima.
Check out the overall fuel economy that edmunds got in their tests:
Mazda6: 20 MPG
Accord: 18 MPG
Altima: 17 MPG (on Premium no less).
Another surprise is the fact that Mazda is the only one that uses scissor-hinges to keep them out of interfering with trunk space. I knew that the Altima didn't use them, but the Accord as well? Wow. I thought Honda would be better than that.
Discuss!
Skid Path #'s :
Mazda6: 0.81g @ 66.4-mph
Accord: 0.80g @ 63.3 mph
Altima: 0.79g @ 65.9 mph
Acceleration Stats:
Mazda6: 0-60 in 6.5 sec / 1/4 mile 14.7 seconds at 95.6 mph
Accord: 0-60 in 7.5 sec / 1/4 mile 15.6 seconds at 91.0 mph
Altima: 0-60 in 7.0 sec / 1/4 mile 15.0 seconds at 95.2 mph.
Conclusion:
With more room, better real world fuel economy, better handling, faster acceleration times it's a no brainer why the Mazda6 won.
I do think that the Mazda is at a price disadvantage with equipped with nav, considering an Accord with nav can be had at just over $30,000, while a Mazda6 with nav is around $32,000. I also did not like the fact that the Altima tester was not a loaded one, either.
Nay-sayers where are you!?!?!?!
The real world MPG's show exactly what many on this board already know and that sadly many uninformed consumers do not: Mazda's will meet or exceed their EPA numbers while the competition builds their cars to maximize the EPA tests at the expense of real-world MPG. The Accord and Altima were a full 5 MPG under their EPA combined numbers.
As far as pricing, here's how it works out.
2009 Mazda6 S GT W/moon and Nav
32,690
Honda accord EX-L Nav
31,425
With the 6, for the extra 1265 dollars you get 18 inch alloys, Blind Spot Monitoring, Smart Key, rain sensing windshield wipers, Xenon HID headlights and auto dimming outside mirrors. Plus a bigger trunk, an extra gear and a much tighter turning circle and A2DP Bluetooth in addition to phone support.
The only features I can find that the accord has that the 6 doesn't are the Maintenence Minder and Power Lumbar instead of Manual.
Drop the nav, and the price difference is even less.