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Comments
Of most interest:
"The 2009 MAZDA6 will be available with two engine options: an all-new Mazda-designed and developed MZR 2.5-liter 4-cylinder engine and a powerful 3.7-liter V6.
Choose between a 6-speed manual or 5-speed Sport AT with manual-shift mode on the 4-cylinder, or a 6-speed Sport AT with manual-shift mode for the V6."
Too bad, no more manual on the V6.
"It will be available only as a four door-sedan"
Too bad also...
*sigh*...they didn't change the position of the fog lights, didn't add the line down the center of the hood...I'm fine with 4-cylinder manual, but I agree that it's upsetting there is not hatchback...
I was really really really looking forward to the JDM, now I might have to get a fusion instead...does anyone actually work at mazda give a darn? I mean seriously...how can you even put the JDM and US version next to each other...
Like I said...*Sigh*...
Although it's a stretch interpretation, I could read this as saying that there is a choice on both engine types... I'm hoping anyway. I read another Mazda press release regarding the 6 where they phrased it slightly different and it also seemed to suggest that the 3.7 liter (man just writing 3.7 liter is a thrill!) would be available w/ a 6 speed. and supposedly, motor trend is suggesting the same thing.
motor trend article
but then again motor trend has been saying for the last year or so that the new 6 would be getting a 3.5 liter...
As a Mazda salesperson, I admit to being disappointed that there will be no wagon or hatch. Heck, I wish Mazda would drop the sedan and go only with the wagon and hatch to differentiate itself from the competition, but I'm pleasantly surprised that they didn't mess up the NA version.
Sounds like there will be no manual transmission for the V6 and I know that will emotionall destroy a few enthusiasts on this site, but in the real world, after the tiny number of enthusiasts have bought their manual transmission cars in the first few months the car is on the market, its almost impossible to give one away. Plus the re-sale on a V6 manual is scary bad. You take a HUGE hit for buying one when it comes time to trade.
Heck, with gas prices where they are, I'm more interested in the I4 anyways!
Add me to the list of Mazda owners (I have multiple Mazda's in my garage) who will not purchase a sedan. I'll consider the 3, however, will likely shop elsewhere.
Maybe a Jetta Wagon TDI.
Your mention of the V6 manual resale implies that there is less resale problem with I4 manual...is that correct? This would tend to imply that most manual buyers are buying for economic reasons, rather than being enthusiasts.
Who knows? Mazda may be doing the same thing for the second-gen, with a release of the 5-door and wagon for 2010...
Doesn't really matter whether or not its an I4 or a V6 - a manual transmission in a mid-sized car is the kiss of death in terms of re-sale value. Sure you'll pay less up front, but you will take it in the neck at the back end, and that's the case for every make, not just Mazda.
In the land of the mid-size sedan, the automatic transmission is king.
Now, I will place one caveat on this. I'm Canadian. Here, compact cars outsell mid-sized cars by a very large margin. Mid-sized cars - which often run upwards of $30,000 here - are almost considered more of an entry level luxury vehicle. Perhaps in the US, with lower car prices and gas prices and the greater popularity of vehicles in the mid-sized segement there is a difference, but I doubt it.
Thanks for the clarification. That was one reason I went with an automatic...even though I typically keep a car forever, I figured it would be easier to get rid of should I change my ways. The insignificant mpg difference and the (related) racer gearing of the manual were others as was the fact that power seemed adequate even with the auto.
*Maybe*, we will see a hatch next year, though I fully expect not to. Forget about a wagon.
With the greater differentiation between NA/Euro/[non-permissible content removed] models in this new 6 the tooling cost for NA only hatch and wagon is most likely never going to make a sound return on investment.
Personally, hatchback Mazda6 availability is what differentiated the 6 from other midsize choices and is the reason I changed my mind from a Mazda3 5door to Mazda6 5 door. The Accord would be my #1 choice for sedan midsize, Jetta TDI for Wagon midsize.
Subaru dropped the Legacy Wagon for 2008. Mazda dropped the 6 Wagon for 2008 and 2009.
It's too bad I don't like SUV's as Mazda has plenty of SUV's to choose from.
I sold my 99 Accord LX 5MT last year within a couple of hours of listing on Craigslist - at the asking price (blue book). The dealers may not want an MT in a trade but there's a market out there for sedans with an MT - maybe the 6 is not among them.
With its good looks and a 6MT this 6 will have a leg up on the competition.
At a time when GM and Ford are beginning to abandon the many designs for many markets philosopy and are making global vehicle designs, Mazda decides it is wise to spend x2 the resources and x2 the tooling costs to design, engineer and manufacture one design for North America and a different one for the rest of the world. I'm disgusted to see that Mazda is taking the Ford Focus approach.
Why not just have Ford manufacture the Mazda's for North America and slap a Mazda6 badge on a Fusion?
That's because they're not.
The Euro Focus and NA Focus are two different cars built on two different platforms. The NA Focus is essentially a warmed-over version of the original Focus platform, while the Euro Focus is riding on a much-newer platform that the US Volvo S40 and Mazda3 also uses.
The 6, both here and abroad, is built on an updated version of the CD3 platform, similar to the first-gen Mazda6. The differences are in the finer points (NA gets a V6, but shares the I-4, different trim and fascias, minor interior items, etc.)
Mazda is NOT spending twice the $$$$ or resources on different cars with the same name, it's the same platform, modified for the specific market. It's similar to GM selling modified Opels in the US as Saturns.
Oh, and for the record, the first-gen Mazda6 is the same thing.
Mazda6 2009 is bigger on the outside than Atenza, it is bigger on the inside than Atenza. It requires different tooling than Atenza and greater engineering cost than if they were the same. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
Is a Fusion and a Mazda6 the same? No.
Is a Mazda6 2007 the same as the Ford Edge, since they both use CD3? No.
And for the record, Saturn Astra is virtually the same car in Europe and US, the platform is not modified.
Honda Accord V6, here I come!!!
One thing I liked about the previous Mazda 6 was its somewhat different nature. Especially, enthusiasts were well catered for, it offered a manual for the V6, the ride was taut and the handling superb..... It sounds like the new Mazda is trying to get too mainstream and be like the Accord. So I might as well get the Accord....at least it'll have better resale value!
What the hell, Mazda! Where's the Zoom-Zoom? I'm very angry!
You'll be abandoning the M6 for a different make & model that offers neither of the features you are lamenting the non-existence of
in a couple of years?
OK, noted.
Secondly, my choosing the Accord would be a form of protest at Mazda's decision. Maybe if this one sells poorly, they'll create something better.
Yes, that'll be effective and encourage them to build something more like the best selling cars in the US...Camry and Accord.
Mazda decides it is wise to spend x2 the resources and x2 the tooling costs to design, engineer and manufacture one design for North America and a different one for the rest of the world. I'm disgusted to see that Mazda is taking the Ford Focus approach.
You do realize that if they did not modify the design for the US there would be no V6 at all. This would be fine with me, but I am thinking you would be complaining about the lack of a V6.
Only Americans want a V6 in a car such as this and the vast majority of Americans do not want a manual.
While us "enthusiasts" are the ones who usually prowl these forums, and have expressed dislike with what Mazda has in store for us on this side of the pond. However, the Mazda6 was in dire need of change. First, the car needed to be bigger. Does anyone see how popular the Altima got? I think Mazda wants a piece of that pie. The Mazda6 also needed more power, and better fuel efficiency. Mazda has claimed to cure both. Also, with it's increased size, Mazda is also claiming that is drives like a Mazda! I think that is the one thing that us "enthusiasts" here are worried about. We want this new Mazda6 to drive like the one we already have. Am I correct in that assumption?
Having said all of that, if the new Mazda6 feels like my Mazda6, and it has more power, better fuel efficiency, updated styling and a little more room, what's not to like?
Also, I think a few of you here think that the new Mazda6 is significantly bigger then the current model. That is not the case. It is only slightly bigger. Don't worry, Mazda did not give us a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry.
So far, the pictures look good. When Mazda has us drive the new 6 before the public gets to drive it, I will let all of you know if Mazda did their job!
and to they guy who crashed the party... did you get a chance to check out the interior? I'd imagine it's pretty much the same except maybe without the steering wheel paddles, but just curious as to what your impressions were. examples like seat material, dash layout/ materials, center console solidity, aux input location etc would be great. of course if anyone else has this info, I'd love to hear it.
concerning how the car drives, if they have kept steering feel and a suspension that isn't so prone to heavy leaning under standard corner loads like other cars in this class while improving nvh and reducing weight... well that would be a huge improvement. and from what I've been reading on the jdm/euro version, that seems to what mazda has uncorked... so I'm cautiously optimistic. of course I've heard some owners of the current 6 be pretty critical of the new 6 when they had a chance to drive the euro version so geuss I'll just have to wait to September.
But note to Mazda: I will not consider trading in my hatch unless I can get another 5 door.
If a company is constantly told by it's dealers to make more V6 with manuals, more 5 doors and more wagons cause we can sell the living hell out of them, do you really think Mazda would say...."oh sorry, we can't cause we don't like good margins and want to be more Honda". Get real.
As for no mtx in the V6, for MY2009, Mazda will not offer it. This may be for a few reasons. First, they might not have the capability to produce enough 6-speed manuals. They already use them in the MX-5, RX-8, Mazdaspeed3 and 09 Mazda6 i. They may introduce it in 2010. Until Mazda tells us why, all we can do is speculate.
As a current Mazda6 i 5-speed owner, I owe it to myself to take a serious look at the 2nd gen. I don't like the Accord / Altima or Camry. I currently have the 5-door and I really like it, however, I would not hesitate to buy the sedan if I like how it drove. I also bought my Mazda6 with the intentions of driving it for a long time. I have little over 40,000 problem free miles on it. I don't plan on trading it in either because I still owe money on it. Right now, my wife needs to replace her Impreza, and getting her a new car is top priority. Since Mazda is probably not offering AWD in the new Mazda6, that rules it out. She needs AWD. If I do replace my Mazda6, it won't be for a while, maybe by 2011 or 2012. Who knows what the Mazda6 will have then? Maybe a new Mazdaspeed?
If you are interested in the Accord V6, you better check out the numerous dissatisfied 2008 Honda Accord V6 owners in the "Accord VCM" thread. Better yet, the members here on Edmunds only rate the car an 8.8 out of 10.0. The Mazda6 has consistently over 9.0.
You should be wise and not jump to any conclusions with out driving either of these vehicles.
Firstly, I welcome most of the changes to the new Mazda 6: the styling, more powerful engines, even more space (provided it's not too big). So don't get me wrong: I'm not panning it as a complete failure.
But there are certain things that I don't like. The Mazda press release on mazdausa.com clearly states that the new Mazda 6 would be a 4-door only. It doesn't state or hint at future hatchback and/or wagon models. Since I'm a fan of the current hatchback, I'm not happy about there being not hatchback!
The second thing I don't like is ride and comfort that has been "optimised for North America", according to the press release. What is that supposed to mean? Given that American cars have traditionally had poor handling, and that the Camry and even the Accord have relatively poor handling and are more "comfortable", this could be an ominous sign! It almost certainly means that the handling and ride that we love so much will go away.
Thirdly, there will be no manual for the V6! What are Mazda thinking? It should at the very least be available by special order.
What made me love the previous Mazda 6 was its excellent handling and ride, it's availability of manuals for V6 models (not only that....one could get a fully loaded GT with the manual V6), and it offering hatchback and wagons. The hatchback in particular was beautiful.
According to Mazda's own press release, these features would not be back with the new Mazda 6. According to THEIR OWN press release on their official website.....not some rumours! So it seems I don't have a reason to consider one anymore, despite the improvements in other aspects of the car. So pardon me if I'm not thrilled about the new model!
Remember that the 626 tried to be another Accord/Camry and failed. That was the whole point of the Zoom-Zoom strategy of the Mazda 6: to appeal to a different set of drivers by offering better styling, driving pleasure (great manual trans that was available for all trims) and better utility (hatchback and wagon). This new model seems to want to chase Accord and Camry buyers again!
So if I boycott by buying an Accord and other people do so, maybe Mazda might get the message and give a proper Zoom-Zoom car! If they want to give me an Accord, I might as well buy a real Accord. If we all buy this current model, they'll think their new strategy works and we'll never see the real zoom-Zoom features again!
Lastly, one might argue that "don't worry....the Mazdaspeed version will cater to us enthusiasts". That will be true, but the Mazdaspeed will cost around $30k and will have poor fuel economy! For an enthusiast wanting to spend no more than $27k or so on a manual V6 mid-sized car, the new Mazda 6 won't satisfy him/her.
Why would they hint to future 5-door or wagon models in the future when they are trying to sell cars, today? Remember, in 2003, when the Mazda6 was introduced, there was no 5-door or wagon, nor did they hint about one either.
The second thing I don't like is ride and comfort that has been "optimised for North America", according to the press release. What is that supposed to mean? Given that American cars have traditionally had poor handling, and that the Camry and even the Accord have relatively poor handling and are more "comfortable", this could be an ominous sign!
I highly doubt that! Remember, the Mazda CX-9 was designed EXCLUSIVELY for the American market, and it is the best handling and braking 7 passenger CUV on the market. The CX-9 has since been offered in other markets.
So if I boycott by buying an Accord and other people do so, maybe Mazda might get the message and give a proper Zoom-Zoom car! If they want to give me an Accord, I might as well buy a real Accord
How about you wait and drive one before you call it the next Accord.
I think if nobody had ever seen the JDM model, nobody would be complaining about this in terms of styling.
I'm not worried about the handling/ride aspect at all. Mazda knows that it will not be successful trying to make Camcord clones. Mazda knows that all the success that it has enjoyed in terms of both sales and awards in recent years has been due to staying true to the brand marketing. I think what they're trying to do is address needs of the NA market without compromising too much their brand image. Sure, it's riding a fine line but I think they'll be able to pull it off.
Although I havent driven the JDM/euro 6, I've read lots of European reviews comparing it to the Mondeo, and even the Europeans prefer the Mondeo because its ride is more composed even though the 6 is a bit sharper in the handling department. So, who knows we may be getting something better with the NA 6: composed ride and good handling.
I think the lack of wagon/hatchbacks is an oversight and a misunderstanding of where the market is going. Mazda needs to start to predict the market rather than just react to current conditions. For example, with the move towards smaller fuel efficient vehicles, the Mazda2 would be a huge seller already in the States if they had been prepared to bring it over.
I think another trend will be moving away from the crossovers and back to wagons with inline 4s. Ok, so most crossovers are just raised wagons neways, but the market for alternative people movers is expanding. It'd be difficult to sell a Cx-7 with a normally aspirated i4 (hence the awkward turbo), but the Mazda5 is flying off lots right now (sales are up surprisingly). Step up your game Mazda and dont be afraid to carve new niches like you have with the 5.
His point was that midsize sedans have trouble selling with manuals (which is true), and that this usually gets worse when trying to resell your vehicle. I dont know if this is Mazda's motivation behind not selling manuals on th v6 sedans. However, I do think its a disservice and a slap in the face to Mazda's primary fanbase.
They've made their money and brand selling to the enthusiast, and they have to live with the consequences of that.
I'm only saying they probably should include the manual as an option, perhaps factory ordered, as a token gesture to their primary fanbase. Even if these 'enthusiasts' don't generate enough sales to warrant the inclusion of the manual, I think it's a mistake to alienate them long-term.
Admittedly, I dont know the costs of making the manual an option. I'm sure it's not just a plug and play type of deal.
Well, I am disappointed that Mazda decided to not put a manual in the v6. I understand why they did it, but I know I prefer it compared to current manumatics where downshifting is way too slow. Given the current market for the 6 is probably way lower than what Mazda initially thought it would be, I can understand why they are moving slowly into this market with more "sure things" while hopefully retaining what separates Mazda from the rest of the brands. I'm sure if the new model does well and gets good press, they may consider other options, hopefully the hatch and wagon get another look.
But given what they've announced, there's no reason for me to change... my car's paid off, I like how it drives and love the flexibility of the 5-door, and find the size just fine. Of course I'd love to swap engines with the 3.7 but with a manual, my 3.0 does just fine. I'd love to see mazda succeed... an enthusiast's brand without snobbish attitudes or pricing is a recipe that deserves to win.
Why can't a "family vehicle" have a manual transmission? I just don't get it. Is a manual any less capable of carrying the whole family than an automatic? In fact, I would want a manual as a family vehicle because it forces the driver to concentrate more on driving.......
Look, I understand all the economics behind the V6-no-manual decision. But Mazda is a brand that has promised to satisfy enthusiasts. Why not provide the one thing that makes driving most satisfying for the enthusiast: the manual transmission? If, for economics reason, they won't sell V6-with-manuals to dealers, why won't they at least make them available for customers willing to order and wait for one? That way, everyone wins! I would definitely be willing to wait a few weeks for my manual Mazda 6 V6!
Why would they hint to future 5-door or wagon models in the future when they are trying to sell cars, today? Remember, in 2003, when the Mazda6 was introduced, there was no 5-door or wagon, nor did they hint about one either."
Simple. I want to buy a Mazda 6 hatchback, but I'm not necessarily a fan of the Mazda 6 sedan. With Mazda not making the intention of introducing a hatchback known, I might assume they will not make a hatchback at all and buy a competing sedan (Accord) or hatchback (Subaru Forrester). Or I may decide to get a used Mazda 6 hatchback. [As you and I know, Mazda would make no money off a used vehicle.] But if they let it be known that there will be a hatchback in 2010, I'll simply wait till then and get the Mazda 6 hatchback!
By not telling me of their intention to introduce the hatchback, they lose me as a Mazda 6 hatchback customer! Simple.
Remember that when the Mazda 6 was first introduced in 2003, they weren't sure how well it would be received by the market and it therefore didn't make sense to expand the model lineup. But this time, they already have a good idea of the demand for the hatchback. So if they intend producing a hatchback later, why not make that known? Why risk losing potential hatchback customers? They've already made it known that they intend producing a Mazdaspeed 6......
"How about you wait and drive one before you call it the next Accord."
I guess you have a point here. I agree.
But I'm just so annoyed at Mazda for some of the decisions they've taken about the Mazda 6.
Besides, I've driven several cars with manumatic automatics and they're just not compelling choices. I drove a manumatic BMW 335i and a manual 335i on the same day. The manumatic was good, but the manual was really heaven on earth. Huge difference.
Because of the lack of a clutch, I often forgot to shift the manumatic after a while. Shifting became an annoyance instead of a joy. After 5 minutes or so, I simply put it to full automatic. In short, driving a manumatic feels like driving a toy (because my left foot is not involved and I don't feel any mechanical link when I shift). Manumatics are crap and I wonder why they're selling at all.....I bet most drivers just use the full auto mode.
The reason I mention the 335i manumatic example is that I know a Mazda 6 V6 manumatic wouldn't satisfy me the same way a Mazda 6 V6 manual would. If Mazda wouldn't sell V6 manuals directly to dealers for understandable economic reasons, they should at least make them available by order. I don't see what's so difficult or expensive about that.
Yes, they do. Now what does the fact that Mazda chose not to sell the 5 door hatchback here tell you that they know about the demand? What does the fact that no manufacturer (ignoring the current Mazda6) is producing a mid-size hatchback sedan for the US market, tell you that they all know?
There are also nearly no moderately priced mid size wagons in the US market. The Passat is about it, and it is not even all that moderate in price. Edmunds lists the Outback, but I think most would consider that to be a "cross-over".
Mazda6 hatch has sold well in the past and there is a maket for it.
One small player in the US not playing in a particular market is quite different from essentially no one doing so. Either every single manufacturer is too dumb to realize that there is a massive untapped market of would-be midsize hatchback buyers in the US or a handful of Mazda6 5-door owners are mistaken about the viability of a midsize hatch. I'm gonna go with the second option.
Mazda6 hatch has sold well in the past and there is a maket for it.
Is there any objective evidence of this? What are the sales figures for the hatch vs. the sedan?
I have 9600 miles on my 07 Mazda6 auto and have never once been out of full auto. That's not why I bought the car. I like nice handling cars but just don't want to shift. I was stuck in a traffic jam during a snowstorm one time and it took me 6 hours to go about 50 miles. I had a stick at the time and I swore my left leg was going to fall off. I swore that I would never have a stick again and haven't.
However, I agree that anybody that wants one should be able to get one as long as they are willing to pay the price of a special order if necessary. Don't know how much it would be worth....guess that would determine if someone was a real enthusiast or not.
Yes, they do. Now what does the fact that Mazda chose not to sell the 5 door hatchback here tell you that they know about the demand? What does the fact that no manufacturer (ignoring the current Mazda6) is producing a mid-size hatchback sedan for the US market, tell you that they all know?"
Exactly my point! If Mazda has not stated or hinted that they'll released a hatchback version of the new Mazda 6 at some point, then it's safe to assume that they won't or don't intend to.