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2009 Mazda6

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  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Tuesday means Mazda chat night! The chat opens at 8:45 pm ET and runs until 10 pm ET. I hope you're able to join us tonight to meet and greet with your fellow CarSpace members!
    See you there!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I just got the latest edition of "zoom-zoom" magazine, which is sent out to all current Mazda owners. In the article about the new Mazda6, Mazda claims to have "improved the handling of the new Mazda6 through extensive testing and fine tuning". I guess that answers the question some of us had whether it would handle better or not. A test drive is still needed to prove that on my end, though.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    What would you expect Mazda to say if the handling has been made less precise and the ride softer..."we improved handling by making it more like a Camry (in the hope that sales would become more Camry-like)?

    I'm not at all saying that this is what they did, I'm just saying I'd not give much weight to "opinions" expressed in Mazda marketing materials.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I got the magazine at least three weeks ago so they must mail at different times in different areas. I have no reason to doubt what they say but one has to remember that the "zoom-zoom" magazine is a marketing vehicle(please excuse the pun ;) ) So without a test drive, it may be premature to say it "answers the question".
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    you got the "summer 2008" edition 3 weeks ago? It just arrived at our dealer today. lol

    To my credit, I did say I need to test drive it to confirm their statement, didn't I?? :shades:
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Yeah, it's the Summer 2008 edition with the M6 on the front. To be more exact it was shortly before June 6 because I went out town that day and took it with me. So probably more like two weeks.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I guess Mazda takes its time when it comes to supplying us East Coast guys with anything...
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    Whatever. I'm looking for a left-over, (or used) Mazda6 5-door. Since according to you guys there are NO sales for that "unique size and appeal" anymore, it should be easy to find one to buy, right?
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    "Pics of 6 I4 in CA parking lot over on autoblog.com. Nice color blue. About 11 pics next to current gen."

    And the current gen in the photo is (gasp!) a 5-door. Can't imagine how that could be possible, since there is NO MARKET for 5-door models anymore, haha.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I guess they tried "if we build them...they will come" and it didn't work. You should get a job at Mazda as their SVP of Marketing and show them a thing or two. ;)
  • akt1000akt1000 Member Posts: 15
    I wonder how many people did not seriously consider the 5-door Mazda6 just because of the huge standard spoiler. I would rather have a car with 5-doors, but could never talk my wife into buying a car with a spoiler unless it is a subtle one.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    That is also a 2004-2005 Mazda5 5-door, when the 5-door actually sold. Remember, I have a 2005 Mazda6 5-door!!!

    I believe that part of the reason that the Mazda6 5-door did not sell too well recently is a direct correlation to the slowness of sales for the sedan as well.

    Mazda is the one who figured there was not much of a market for one now. I personally, want to see one.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I doubt that was a big factor, more people probably see the spoiler as a plus. I am an anti-spoilerite, myself so it was one of several factors against the 5-door for me.
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    The spoiler could be easily removed by any body shop, then you'd have a very distinctive car!
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    "That is also a 2004-2005 Mazda5 5-door, when the 5-door actually sold. Remember, I have a 2005 Mazda6 5-door!!!

    I believe that part of the reason that the Mazda6 5-door did not sell too well recently is a direct correlation to the slowness of sales for the sedan as well.

    Mazda is the one who figured there was not much of a market for one now. I personally, want to see one."

    So, when Mazda brings back the Mazda6 5-door in a year or two, will people still say there's no market for it?

    I suppose there's no market for a car like the BMW X6 (available as a 5-door only) either, right? Of course, the X6 is at least twice the price of the Mazda6, but my point is that if the design is well-executed, people will buy it.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I suppose there's no market for a car like the BMW X6 (available as a 5-door only) either, right?

    That's a crossover, Mazda has the CX-7 and CX-9 in that category. Not a lot of reason to bring a 5-door Mazda6 here, which would be less desirable to most Americans and therefore have to sell for a lower price.

    Markets can change and $4 per gallon gas is causing big changes in the vehicle market.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I think you are getting ahead of yourself there. Since we are not getting one, someone somewhere with Mazda seems to think there is not enough of a demand for a 2009 Mazda5 5-door. Mazda offers 3 other "hatch" varieties, Mazda3 5-door, CX-7 and Mazda5. From a dollars and cents stand point, Mazda can justify not offering one here, especially since the 5-door sales have dropped dramatically, and CX-7, Mazda5 and Mazda3 5-door sales are outstanding.

    Again, this does not express my personal view, only what my guess is to what Mazda is thinking, since they have not told us!

    I would like to see a Mazda6 5-door for the 2nd gen Mazda6.
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    "Not a lot of reason to bring a 5-door Mazda6 here, which would be less desirable to most Americans and therefore have to sell for a lower price.
    "

    So, in a year or two when they start selling the Mazda6 5-door again, what will your opinion be?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Since we are not getting one, someone somewhere with Mazda seems to think there is not enough of a demand for a 2009 Mazda5 5-door.

    What market are you in? General manager at local dealer told me 40% of their Mazda6 sales were hatchbacks.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    It is a fact that Mazda does not see value in bringing the hatch here (at this time), or they would be doing it.

    My post also stated the fact that markets can change and $4 per gallon gas is causing big changes in the vehicle market.

    Note to hatch lovers: It is not I who sees "crossovers", et. al. as more desireable and therefore worth more money than a hatch. This has simply been a fact in the vehicle market in the USA, at least in the recent past. For example the CX-7 sells for much more than the Mazda6 wagon did, does it not? If Ford had made a Fusion wagon, rather than the Edge crossover, the price would have had to be lower in order to sell them. Look at the price Honda is able to get for a glorified Civic wagon by putting it on stilts and calling it a CRV. The Focus wagon and the Escape are yet another object lesson.
  • vincepvincep Member Posts: 12
    VW is releasing a Jetta wagon this summer. Coincidentally, they're also releasing a small SUV, the Tiguan. Strangely, if you opt for the 2.0T on the wagon (base on the Tiguan), the Jetta costs MORE. Even then, I bet they sell more Jetta wagons than Tiguans, considering the 2.5 Jetta wagon can be had for less than 20k.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I'm in the North East. Mazda6 5-doors make up less then 10% of total Mazda6 sales.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I really don't think the Tiguan will do too well. To get a AWD Tiguan with an automatic transmission and alloy wheels, the MSRP is $30,000, and that is without leather. You can get a comparably equipped Mazda CX-7 for an MSRP of $27,000, and take 1.9% financing or a $2,000 rebate. Plus, the CX-7 has a whole lot more power.
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    My observation was that on any given Sunday afternoon when I checked my local dealer (I'm in the southwest), about 20-30% were 5-doors.

    I think Mazda just decided to wait until after the launch to decide if they want to offer the 5-door. Then they can judge demand and iron out the engine/tranny mix and option packages . They might get a lot more motivated when dealers report that they are losing sales due to the lack of a 5-door, whether it's 10% or 40% of sales. The other thing we know it that there are people like me who won't buy the new Mazda6 unless it's offered in 5-door form. Some of us have kids and like outdoor activities so we need the utility, but aren't interested in sacrificing handling. Our other options are the Mazda3 5-door, Impreza 5-door, Jetta/GTI 5-door, all of which both have less interior volume than the current Mazda6 5-door. Maybe we should start a thread on "Sporty 5-door Cars for Families" that excludes SUVs, Cute-utes and crossovers. ;)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    If you all remember correctly, there was no 5-door in 2003 (1st year of the Mazda6). I really do think we will see one in the next couple years.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    My observation was that on any given Sunday afternoon when I checked my local dealer (I'm in the southwest), about 20-30% were 5-doors.

    There is your mistake. Dealers have not been able to order Mazda6 5-doors since January, which equates to dealer inventory in March. If you are seeing 30% 5-doors in inventory, that means those cars have been sitting for at least 90 days. Allocations in January were also very minimal, so, in reality, most of those cars were ordered in 2007. Average turn around for Mazda6's are 60 days. What does this mean??? 5-door Mazda6's in your local area do no sell.

    You cannot assume what sales are by seeing what is left in dealer inventory. What is left in inventory, in regards to the Mazda6, is what has not sold. Allocations for the 2008 Mazda6 were closed in March. 5-doors were closed in January, as I said earlier. This just proves to me what Mazda has seen. The recent 5-door Mazda6 just does not sell.

    I really think this equates to the overall lack of Mazda6 sales. The 2008 Mazda6 does not sell, and that makes the sales for the 5-door look even worse.

    I really do think the 5-door is a valuable car, and I really do hope we see the 5-door again. I don't think Mazda is ready to spend the money on one right now, since it is very apparent that Mazda has busted their budget on the NA Mazda6. Once $$ starts rolling in, I think they will spend that $$ on another 5-door for NA.
  • docrwdocrw Member Posts: 94
    -Yes, Mazda is abandoning the "unique size and appeal" if the current model in favor of a more mainstream approach. That "unique size and appeal" got them a lot of sales and put them back in the game, but apparently they think they can do better by going head-to-head with the mid-size sedan sales champs, a rough bunch to play with. My prediction is that they'll fail just like the last time they tried this, and IMO they should have stuck with what was working and just improved it instead of changing their marketing approach in midstream. We'll see.

    Those who don't learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
    ___________________________________________________

    Are you serious? Yes, the current 6 got them back in the game when it came out, but that was a long time ago. Right now, the current Mazda6 sales are dismal. As far as competitors go, I've got news for you, the 6 does compete with midsize sedans. They are well behind Camry, Accord, Altima, etc. Even the Ford Fusion outsells the current 6. In other words, it is failing now. There is no other category for the 6 to compete in. I don't think Mazda is happy having their flagship being considered a niche product. Mazda is in business to sell cars, as many as possible, if only a small number of people are happy with them they have to either change the car or increase the price significantly to offset the lower sales numbers.

    I get that you like the current 6. But maybe, just maybe, you are not in the majority. So, do you want Mazda to keep the car as it is and increase the price by 10K to keep up, or change the car so more people will buy it?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Strangely, if you opt for the 2.0T on the wagon (base on the Tiguan), the Jetta costs MORE.

    Since the 2.0T is an upgrade for the Jetta, perhaps it is better equipped than the base 2.0T Tiguan?

    I'll be very surprised if, when comparably equipped the Tiguan is not priced at least $1000-2000 above the Jetta wagon. At least length-wise, it would appear that the Jetta wagon will be bigger, since even the Sedan is longer than the Tiguan. So it will not be surprising if (like the Focus Wagon vs. Escape comparison), the Jetta Wagon has more cargo space than the Tiguan.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    since it is very apparent that Mazda has busted their budget on the NA Mazda6

    If the NA Mazda6 was the same car sold in the rest of the world the budget would not be busted and the 6 would have been on sale for a year instead of showing up in the August to September time frame.
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    There is your mistake. Dealers have not been able to order Mazda6 5-doors since January, which equates to dealer inventory in March. If you are seeing 30% 5-doors in inventory, that means those cars have been sitting for at least 90 days. Allocations in January were also very minimal, so, in reality, most of those cars were ordered in 2007. Average turn around for Mazda6's are 60 days. What does this mean??? 5-door Mazda6's in your local area do no sell.

    You cannot assume what sales are by seeing what is left in dealer inventory. What is left in inventory, in regards to the Mazda6, is what has not sold. Allocations for the 2008 Mazda6 were closed in March. 5-doors were closed in January, as I said earlier. This just proves to me what Mazda has seen. The recent 5-door Mazda6 just does not sell.

    I really think this equates to the overall lack of Mazda6 sales. The 2008 Mazda6 does not sell, and that makes the sales for the 5-door look even worse.

    I really do think the 5-door is a valuable car, and I really do hope we see the 5-door again. I don't think Mazda is ready to spend the money on one right now, since it is very apparent that Mazda has busted their budget on the NA Mazda6. Once $$ starts rolling in, I think they will spend that $$ on another 5-door for NA.

    I should have been more specific about the time frame. I stopped checking the lots about the time when our son was born 6 months ago since I've been a little busy since then. My observations were for before that time. My wife doesn't let me out much anymore. :cry:

    When I check inventory on the Mazda web site now, there are few if any 5-doors in stock at all. I'd settle for a left-over 2008 model with a nice rebate, if there were any to be found around here. The only one I can find is a 4-cyl auto. :(

    Actually the low demand for the 5-door should work in my favor now since I'm in the market for a used one. I should be able to buy one for a very good price since demand for the 5-door model is so low, right? ;)
  • dockramerdockramer Member Posts: 5
    Hey Avi,

    Here's one small problem though with regards to the 08 5 door selling poorly...

    I waited a year to get the 2008 5-door M6. I was too late in 07, they were all gone.

    But when the 08's came, I found I could only get a MT in the LOWEST TRIM [Sport Value Edition] (in either the i or s)! I mean, come on...mazda really screwed the pooch on that one.

    I want sporty, I want manual, I want functionality of the 5 door. I don't know why mazda won't let me have it!

    So now I'm stuck still driving an SUV and still can't decide wth to do.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    You might be on to something there. Yes, only the SVE Mazda6 5-door came with a manual tranny. The Touring and GT trims were auto only.

    I happen to have a 2005 Mazda6 5-door with the luxury package (leather, heated seats and cool gauges) and the moon roof / Bose Audio package and a 5-speed manual!

    There have been many times that I have used my hatch feature where a regular sedan would not have been enough. I still think we will see another 5-door. Question is, when??
  • rdm925rdm925 Member Posts: 46
    Hello All,
    I'll put in my 2 cents. First ogf all it's almost impossible to find a manual in any Mazda or other mid size sedan any more unless you special order it and wait 6-8 weeks. I replaced my stolen 2003 6 sedan with a 2007 6 5-door which I love. I couldn't find a manual trans one in the Metro Detroit area, and it's built in Flat Rock, MI.!
    Concerning the new 2009 6 not having a 5-door model. I assume that when Mazda/Ford to build a seperate car for North America, they didn't want to tool for a 5-Door. If we had gotten the rest of the world's model like before, I'm sure they'd also send the 5-door here also. But if people demand it they might tool-up and add the 5-door later, like last time. Personnally I think not having a 5-door is a mistake. but they are looking for more mainstream sales. :shades:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I really don't think Ford had much to do with our new 6. After talking with numerous head honchos at Mazda, it is clear that the NA 6 was what Mazda had in mind all along. Us fat Americans need a larger car then what Mazda had built for us in the past.
  • milkman1milkman1 Member Posts: 80
    My fat American "bleep" fits in my current 6 just fine. I just needed the welds on the power seat to be made a little better. The dealer wanted 1358 to fix it, 938 just for the part. I found one used and replaced myself for 100.

    But to the point, I fir in the current one fine. The new one is so large I might sell my house and live in one, but although I lay my head there, my heart is with the old one.
  • mlang2000mlang2000 Member Posts: 18
    It may be bigger than the old model, but for those of us (there will be many) who are looking for a replacement for our big SUVs, the 6 will never be "too big".
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    I agree. Because there will be no 2009 Mazda6 5-door, I'm actually looking at cars like the Pontiac Vibe. Sheesh.
  • socal2006socal2006 Member Posts: 44
    I totally understand why the NA 6 was made as large as it is. If this NA 6 were to be released when the original 6 was released, I think it would've made a huge splash. The first gen 6 was too small for american tastes.

    However, times are changing. Just because the current 6 was too small for it's time frame, doesnt mean that increasing size will spur sales in the future. Because of rising fuel costs, fuel economy is more important than ever. Imagine if Mazda brought over the world 6, they could run ads claiming they lowered weight, blah blah, improved fuel economy, even while making the car larger, while all their competitors are bloating their cars up. If anything, this was the perfect time to not waste resources on a NA 6, while 5 years ago was the perfect time to build a larger NA 6.

    Basically, from the early reviews, it seems Mazda has finally built the perfect midsize sedan having great quality, quietness, size while retaining great handling/steering feel. But, they've done it 5 years too late, and it may be irrelevant. I think the formula might be changing with fuel economy becoming more important.

    If you look at the new product coming from the midsize leaders (honda, toyota), there are tons of fuel efficient vehicles.

    I'm curious though, are people stepping down from SUVs to these large sedans? or will they be going all out in terms of fuel economy going into small cars, hybrids, etc.
  • milkman1milkman1 Member Posts: 80
    I was wondering if dealers have brochures to hand out on the new 6 yet? I'm really looking for something that might show what accessories will be available. Current pricing doesn't really provide any indication.

    And here is a hot idea. If the dollar ever recovers, maybe they can ship in hatchbacks and wagons of the other design. Call them 6s call them something else, but why not? Maybe even base the mazdaspeed version off the Euro hatchback.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Brochures should be in dealerships by July. The prices for the 2009 Mazda6 are also unofficial.
  • rdm925rdm925 Member Posts: 46
    Hi socal 2006,
    In reply to your last sentence. I think this current Oil price crisis is long term and will finally wake this country up. I love cars and grew up loving big detroit iron. But since the 1973 oil embargo, I grew up and I don't need a big [non-permissible content removed] car or truck. To bad we didn't learn the lessons back then. I think that we will see the domestic product become the almost the same as the rest of the world. And a lot of people will go all out to small and hybrid cars. However there will always be a need for some SUV's and Pick-up Trucks. But they will also get much more efficient. :shades:
  • rdm925rdm925 Member Posts: 46
    Hi socal 2006,
    In reply to your last sentence. I think this current Oil price crisis is long term and will finally wake this country up. I love cars and grew up loving big detroit iron. But since the 1973 oil embargo, I grew up and I don't need a big [non-permissible content removed] car or truck. To bad we didn't learn the lessons back then. I think that we will see the domestic product become the almost the same as the rest of the world. And a lot of people will go all out to small and hybrid cars. However there will always be a need for some SUV's and Pick-up Trucks. But they will also get much more efficient. :shades:
  • socal2006socal2006 Member Posts: 44
    You guys see the new press release by Mazda about cutting fuel costs by 30% fleet wide? One major avenue of cutting costs was weight reductions - and they cite the Mazda2 as an example.

    Wouldn't it be great if they could also point to the new 6 and say look our new midsize sedan is not only bigger but lighter and more fuel efficient (the way the world car is)? Too bad they didn't have that foresight to try to stay ahead of the curve.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The new Mazda6 is lighter, more fuel efficient, and lower emissions for versions sold everywhere except North America.

    Buyers in the US and Canada want big engines and big cars, they don't want and don't buy fuel efficiency and sensible size. At least that must be what Mazda USA believes.
  • biker4biker4 Member Posts: 746
    ...only true till this year. I think every maker got the memo that fuel mileage is a very important consideration for consumers - models with that mindset won't arrive for several years (next redesign cycle). You can can bet that the next version of just about every vehicle will be smaller/lighter - reversing a 30 year trend.
  • d_hyperd_hyper Member Posts: 130
    If I were a product mgr, I would have brought Euro Mazda6 here in all of the variants to complement US Mazda6 version - and let the buyers decide. Designate it Mazda6 Euro or Mazda 666 or whatever. For sure, it'll cost more, but the volumes for that thing won't be less than what's currently the case for Mazda5.
  • socal2006socal2006 Member Posts: 44
    Exactly, like i mentioned in my post, the world car is lighter, more fuel efficient despite being bigger. But, the NA car is not....

    And yes, in the past, american have not put fuel economy at the top of their list of concerns. but, like biker4 said, that's changing dramatically.

    In other words, Mazda was ahead of the curve with the new 6, but they blew it by making NA 6.

    Again, like biker4 is saying, only now are cars being designed with the idea that fuel economy is important. The new Accord is bigger/heavier, the new Camry is as well. But, I'm willing to bet that the next generation of these cars will not be heavier. Mazda could've been 4 or so years ahead of everyone else. Instead, they blew a wad of cash that likely will not increase sales even though the they built an excellent car.
  • akt1000akt1000 Member Posts: 15
    I know that I would rather have a Mazda6 in 5-door instead of a 4-door and will thus seriously look at the 5-door European version of the Mazda6, if it is available in USA. However, we should not assume that the European versions of Mazda6 are more fuel efficient just because they are smaller than the american versions. For example, Honda is selling the smaller version of European Accord as Acura TSX, but compared with the American Accord, it gets slightly worse gas mileage and requires premium instead of regular gas.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    It is way too early to tell if Mazda "blew it" with the NA Mazda6. One of the reasons that the Mazda6 was passed over by potential customers who bought H/T/N was because it was too small. The Euro6 is not much bigger then the 1st gen Mazda6, and yet, it was not designed to have a V6 in it. Also, FE is calculated differently in Europe. They also offer much less powerful engines in the Euro6 as well (another reason why the 1st gen was passed over), with the 2.5 being the exception.
  • exit123exit123 Member Posts: 136
    I think the 2009 Mazda6 will be one of the best midsize sedans available, while the first gen (especially the 5-door) was the sporty alternative to a midsize sedan.

    This is always the question of any auto maker - do we go after a bigger piece of the pie, or do we go after some smaller market segment that isn't being filled. Apparently Mazda thinks a bigger piece of the pie will be more profitable.
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