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You're right. But they don't have to lure many of them. When you look at Camcordima numbers Mazda would probably only have to siphon off 1 out of 20 (5%) or so and that would create relatively huge numbers for Mazda in percentage of increase in sales. Mazda is not trying to kill the elephants---just trying to get some of they're food.
Maybe it's the Euro 09 Mazda6????
Just take a look at the slalom test results:
1st gen Mazda6: 63.1 mph
2009 Mazda6: 66.2 mph
Altima: 67.0 mph
(All numbers are based on full tests conducted by Edmunds.)
Altima 3.5 SE is a little bit better than 2009 Mazda6. However, "Stiff tire sidewalls and firm damping contribute to the Nissan's precise character on the road, but they also produce a choppy ride, and this is the downside to the Altima's sporty bent." (V6 family sedans comparision test conducted by Edmunds)
Are the tests done the same. I imagine the 1st gen test was done some years ago. I have also heard much about the sporty but rough ride of the Altima.
Depends on which model you're talking about. If you're talking about the 3.5 SE, then I think that's correct; very sporty ride, but a little rough for everyday use. However, if you get the 2.5 S, or 3.5 SL models, you'll find the suspension to be much more "Accord-like". It's very responsive with a communicative steering wheel, but it's not so responsive that it doesn't smooth over bumps. I own a 2008 Altima 2.5 SL, and I can honestly say that I've never been uncomfortable on any driving surface. The only time I can say that it's annoying is when the road is so rough that it causes a constant buzzing feeling through the wheel. However, that is extremely rare. :P
Steering feel is as good as any front driver and overall nimbleness beats the Accord, Camry, Altima and Passat. The car has rapid turn in and a balanced chassis with controlled body roll. This is a good thing because the engine's lack of torque made accelerating in the slalom a lost cause. The car was hitting redline in second gear but was too low in its rev band in third to create any thrust. The workaround? Carry all the speed you need from the first cone to the last, because any speed you lose you'll never get back.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=77843/pageId=340- 22
In contrast to the, above, positive comments regarding handling that edmunds made for the prior version, for the new version they say: On the skid pad, manageable body roll. Steering lacks feel at the limit. Still, better than many competitors. Slalom, adequate steering feedback and response for the segment, but not as good as expected from a Mazda.
Also results seem to vary as they got 64.9 mph for the prior model another time.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=101056/pageId=575- 16
Exactly. The Mazda6 is no longer exceptional, just comparable.
$5K less than the fall-apart-on-command Passat? Wow...
A 5-door would work for me, preferably with a V6 and MT. I'm sure I could find some struts and tires to improve the handling if I thought it needed it.
Exactly. The Mazda6 is no longer exceptional, just comparable.
Which makes it ordinary. The stakes keep going up. Stay ahead or become an also-ran.
The following were taken from Motor Trends comparison test it did on 4cyl sedans recently and the new road test on the Mazda6.
MT Figure 8
Mazda6=28.0 sec@59g
Altima=28.1@58g
Braking from 60-0
Mazda6=125ft
Altima=129ft
Accel 0-60
Mazda6=7.8
Altima=7.7
Accel 1/4 mile
Mazda6=15.9sec@89.5
Altima=16@88.5
Lateral Accel
Mazda6=.82g
Altima=.80g
Gee, the sporty Altima beats the new Mazda6 in one of the above catergories by .1 of a sec so I guess that makes it the class leader in sportiness. Give me a break with the negativism with nothing to back it up except personal opinion.
Wow, it's clear now that because the Altima is .1 sec faster that makes is definitely better then the Mazda6. What have I been smokin' all this time??
m6, you have proven with data what my driving impressions had already convinced me of, the new Mazda6 is virtually the same in handling and performance as the Altima which is a design that is several years old.
Mazda6 fails to differentiate itself from Altima in handling and performance in 4 cylinder trim.
What I wrote: Which makes it ordinary. The stakes keep going up. Stay ahead or become an also-ran.
I believe my comments were clear - the Mazda6 no longer feels like a sporty sedan compared to its competition. It's just one of many.
The understeer, the removed road feel, soft suspension, lack of road noise, lack of engine noise - just like the competition in this segment. The Mazda6 is supple, refined, quiet, has decent interior and a good amount of space - just like the competition in this segment. It's not worth the money they're charging for it - just like the competition in this segment. In other words, the Mazda6 became unremarkable.
We'll see if the combo of good looks, better than the rest in handling, bigger size(which it was constantly badmouthed for in the press) and nicer interior drives more sales. They are try to appeal to a larger fan base. I'm sure they realized that they would lose a small % of their current admirers---many of which are enthusiuist types that occupy these forums and represent a very, very small % of the buying public.
The understeer, the removed road feel, soft suspension, lack of road noise, lack of engine noise - just like the competition in this segment
Nothing wrong with personal observations and we all like to read them. But they remain an opinion and not proven fact.
The 1st gen Mazda6 was only a little better then what is on the market now. Lets not make the 1st gen Mazda6 our to be a race car, because it surely was NOT. I own one, and it does handle nice, but thats partly due to the fact it's tiny. It's not much bigger then a Mazda3.
Leading up to the release of the 09 Mazda6, there had been several spy pics that show the Mazda6 undergoing testing with a Nissan Altima. I'm pretty sure that Mazda, in their mind, made sure it out performed the current performance champ in the segment. They have spent more time on the new Mazda6 then any other car they have ever launched.
If the Mazda6 does not do it for you, then obviously neither does any other affordable mid-sizer. Perhaps you should spend $50K on a BMW 5-Series, or perhaps $40K on a VW Passat V6 4-motion because obviously a $22K Mazda6 does not fit the bill. If you don't like the 09 Mazda6, that's fine. Let's just keep things in perspective and be realistic.
Until recently had always been a fan of Mazda - and owned several dating all the way back into things like RX2s and Cosmos. Regret to this day the demise of what I thought to be a refreshing and somewhat innovative approach to the sedan - the Millenia. Think that the beginning of Mazda's ultimate demise came when the company hitched too close to the Ford wagon back in the late 80s with the Probe/MX6. Mazda would be better served doing what it did so well 20 and 30 years ago - leading NOT following.
Consider the 1st gen Mazda6. It was somewhat underpowered and undersized compared to the rest of the midsized field. What it had going for it was some decent looks, sharp handling(respective to it's direct competitors) and a Zoom-Zoom marketing campaign.
Now comes the 2nd gen Mazda6. They fixed the power issue, fixed the size issue(some people are having size issues but that is a personal problem---no pun intended). It has better looks(subjective but I haven't heard anyone say different) and still still handles better than the rest of the midsized field (but not by as much) and still has a Zoom-Zoom marketing campaign.
I think everyone's expectations, mine included, were pretty high for this car and any flaw is magnified. There is no perfect midsizer out there because we all consider one thing or another a little more important to us. Could it have been a lot better than it is? Of course, they all could be a lot better, but at what price?
But it is still the car people desire because it handles and feels so good.
Look beyond the numbers. Not the numbers.
well, according to Wards' the Mazda 4 cylinder DISI is class leading, not following.
http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_story_behind_wards_2/
btw, maybe your millenia engine might also come back
Some reports from Japan suggest Mazda is planning a resurrection of its Miller-cycle design for smaller-displacement engines.
The Miller-cycle — which delays closing of the intake valves to reduce the engine pumping losses that hinder efficiency — was last used by Mazda in North America in a supercharged 2.3L DOHC V-6 for the low-volume Millenia S sedan, which was discontinued in 2002.
Funny question. Why does it seem that BMW always comes up when talking about the 6? They really are marketed to different market segments and are very different cars besides one being German and one being Japanese. I guess just the fact that it does come up so often means Mazda is doing something right. I don't ever see BMW compared to Sonatas, Camrys, Fusions, Accords, etc.
I tend to shop based on size, performance, usability and price. Segment is meaningless to me; as is new or used. For 20-30k I see a variety that many 6 buyers will never entertain. If one is willing to blow 28k on a Mazda6, maybe they're willing to spend the same amount on a 2006 Lexus GS00 - get Lexus quality, etc. A 2007 Infiniti G35 has a sensational Infiniti warranty and just as much room as the Mazda but the benefit of far better performance and build quality.
Maybe it's not segment-fair but it is wallet fair to compare a 2007 G35 to a 2009 Mazda6 V6. You may find that for the trade-off of new v. used you get a better car for less money.
Yes it can. And does!
Segment is not just about car dynamics.
If you want to sell a car, make it sporty AND fuel efficient... what a novel concept. :P
Actually, I'm only considering the I4 for myself and that mpg is fairly efficient. It's only one less mpg than most of the rest. The V6 on the other hand is pretty pathetic.
Like I've said before....there is not one of these cars that is perfect for all of us. They all have their little faults or ommissions most of which may not be deal killers but are still annoying.
A 2007 Certified Infiniti G35 with 25k miles comes with a better warranty than a new Mazda6.
Mazda warranty:
Mazda warrants that new 2007 and 2008 Mazda cars and trucks will be free of defects with normal use and prescribed maintenance for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Ordinary maintenance items, adjustments, parts subject to normal wear and certain other items are excluded. This transferable "limited warranty" is included on all new Mazda vehicles sold and serviced in the United States.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=ownersWarranty
General Infiniti warranty
# 4-year/60,000-mile Basic coverage
# 5-year/50,000-mile Emission Control coverage
# 6-year/70,000-mile Powertrain coverage
# 7-year/unlimited-mileage Corrosion coverage
http://www.infiniti.com/ownership/warranty.html
Pre-owned:
Warranty Coverage: The Infiniti Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle Limited Warranty extends the basic coverage of the Infiniti new vehicle limited warranty (inclusive of powertrain coverage) to 72 months from the in-service date of the vehicle or 100,000 total miles on the odometer, whichever occurs first.
http://www.infiniti.com/pre-owned/warranty.html
Thus a 2 year old G35 comes with a 2 years 35k mile bumper to bumper and then another 2 years 40k miles with a $50 deductible.
Also, the used car has seen its greatest depreciation already, while the new car is about to endure a harsh bath.
Like I said, if you're a new-only, segment only buyer, then your choices are limited to Accord, Camry, Altima, Sonata, Mazda6. If you're looking for price and sedan form then 2-4 year old entry and lux sedans like the G, IS, ES, CTS, C, 3, GS, MKZ, TL, RL, Saab are available in the same range and sometimes with a better warranty. Judging by JD Power, all cars are built far better today than they were 10 years ago. But today ~35% of the cars on the road are over 11 years old. ( http://www.drivingtoday.com/mix1065/news_this_week/2006-04-05-3277-driving/index- .html ).
And yes, one can go nuts comparing all the options at that point.
So I finally went to look at a 6 yesterday to see if the constant negative banter known as the Edmunds 2009 Mazda6 forum was for real or an unwarranted case of carpal-tunnel syndrome.
Dealer had an i Sport and 2 s GTs. One thing I looked for immediately was the flimsy interior door handle mentioned a few pages back. It was there, and yes I would expect better from Mazda, if it were made in Japan. More on that later. Sitting in the car, no doubt its worlds ahead of the previous gen 6. The layout was very nice for a base model. I didn't really think to evaluate the so called "mouse fur" someone noted but I did notice how wide the seats were. I drive an 06 3 hatch and the seats were absolutely huge compared to mine. I also made a note to check out the "noxious" new car smell. Wow, was that ever a petty reason to not like the car. Smelled like any other new car I've sat in. The styling didn't wow me, but was a lot better than in the pictures. No test drive yet as the dealer was closing.
Regarding the domestic comment, I noticed on the window sticker that the 5 spd and 6 spd transmissions are both sourced from Japan, along with the V6. The 4 cyl comes from Mexico. Coupled with the high fuel prices and shipping costs, I'm assuming that Mazda needed to cut costs in other areas to offset these freight costs. I'm almost positive that Honda and Toyota builds their engines and trannies in the US. That's the Japanese way. Obviously Mazda is not going to build an engine plant in the US to support one model so they're behind the 8 ball right off the get go. I'm not making excuses for them, but I believe this is one of the reasons why they need to cut costs in other areas. Unfortunately, it seems to be in the touchy-feely areas that took the hit.
For me, the extra smiles per gallon out weigh the super slim miles per gallon.
Just exactly what will you be smiling about?
The superior resale value of the Mazda6?
The superior handling of the Mazda6?
The lower purchase cost of the Mazda6?
The higher level of reliability demonstrated by Mazda?
Resale means nothing to me since I drive my cars past 100K and I don't care what car it is, they are all worthless past 100K, regardless what KBB and Edmunds say because they are wrong. Right now, if you go to the auctions, Mazda6's are going for $2,000-$3,000 over book value. I can't buy any for my store because they just cost too much. Who would have thought that?
Let's just compare reliability, in this case to the Altima since that it what I was comparing it too to begin with. The Altima has had more then its fair share of problems. Just look at the Altima threads, they are littered with issue after issue.
You know what ever I buy I do so because I like it. I don't care what any body says about it. If I wanted to join the norm and live a dull and boring life, I would buy a Camry/Accord work at a dead end job where I hate my boss and watch my wife cheat on me with my neighbor. Well, I'm not like that.
As I said before, the only other car in this segment I would even consider is a Altima. I like the new Mazda6 more then the one I have had now which has 45,000 problem free miles on it. It's also bigger and in my opinion has more style and better fuel economy. For me, that's enough. All I ever talk about here is my opinion and I never push my opinions on anyone else. If you disagree, that's fine. For me, 1 or 2 mpg's will never sway my decision on what car to purchase. I will always go for what feels better to me, and what puts smiles on my face! How's that for an answer??
As for the "numerous issues" that the car has in terms of reliability, may I kindly ask what you're talking about? I've seen the few issues that people have experienced, but about 95% of consumers experience no issues if they are properly maintained.
I haven't had a chance to go see the new 6 myself, but I will when I get a chance. I seriously hope its as good as some people say it is. Nearly everyone said avoid the Altima and get an Accord instead.... funny how I didn't listen to them, and I've loved my Altima ever since I got it 5 months ago. It's very sporty to drive (yes I have the 2.5L too) it's practical, and it's very easy to live with. If the new Mazda6 is seriously so much better, I'll gladly trade my car in and take the loss financially. However, I bet when I go test drive their 4-cyl model, I will come away unimpressed.
I know of at least one, and I'm sure it affects more than just 5% of owners.
There's an outstanding issue with power-operated driver seats in that they "shift" or "squirm" in place when taking tight curves. It's happened to at least one-third of ALL '07-'08 Altima owners polled on a different forum, and it's for real, since I'm on my second set of seat rails, and the problem has reared it's ugly head yet again to my '07 2.5S.
Nissan apparently knows about the issue, and is currently working on a TSB fix.
Other than that, my '07 has been reliable, with 21K miles and counting.
If you are so happy with your Altima, why would you trade it? Who here is saying that the "Mazda6 is so much better then the Altima"? It is surely not me. Reviews have been positive, and the first owners are happy. It is going to be compared to everything in its segment. Don't get so sensitive if people like it better then the Altima. I, for one, could care less what anyone drives. As I have said over and over, everyone should be happy with what they own. Also, did you happen to see where I stated that the only other car in this segment that I would consider besides a Mazda6 is the Altima????
This is also a "2009 Mazda6" thread, so be prepared to see some Mazda bias here....
Think ya got me mixed up with someone else on the above. I remember the posting but it wasn't me.
I can tell you right now that there is no car in this segment that is enough "better" than any other one to entice anyone to trade a perfectly good 5 month old car for it. I'm not saying the new Mazda6 is better than the Altima because I haven't even driven the new 6 yet and it's been over a year since I drove the Altima. I was just posting the raw numbers from the MT test which showed the new 6 to surpass the Altima in a number of comparables.
People were making statements based on a half-[non-permissible content removed](IMHO) review that Edmunds did and parroting what it said as fact without the benefit of even seeing the car in person or driving it.
Oh, and about the premium recommended gas. I realize you don't have to but if you don't you are losing a small portion of your performance and it kind of defeats the pupose to a degree. I have an Infiniti SUV with basically the same engine and we put in midgrade as a comprimise mainly because I'm not really concerned with the power as I am cost right now.