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On the 2000, it is 30K for severe duty. Since that is how we drive our Ody, I've had it done every 30K.
“The mechanic told me if I maintain this tranny there should not be any issues with it. LESSON LEARNED - and an expensive one at that!”
Not true, Honda’s design is flawed, they fail regardless of their care. There have been many failures before 10k mi, mine had crud looking fluid at 30k miles even though I was easy on it and has whined ever since. I was told by Thomas Tipton at Honda of Ft Myers they could do nothing since it set off no code, and Thomas Tipton from Honda of Ft Myers (a Sonic Automotive dealer) LIED on my paperwork and claimed they could not reproduce the whine. Now that it has set off a transmission code they don’t want to fix it even though I complained about the same problem under warranty, HONDA SUCKS, they are nothing but crooks! I have done 3x fluid changes with Honda fluid every 30k since the original 30k and still have problems. Don’t believe a word Honda or a dealership says, they are LIARS and CROOKS.
1. Should we keep or sell the vehicle?
2. Is there any way to prevent the transmission from going out?
3. Does anyone know the failure rate of the 2003 Odysseys?
4, What is the design flaw that is causing the failures?
Thanks for any help you can provide :shades:
And Johnnyboy18, posting in all capitals is "shouting" and considered "rude". Most will just pass over the post...in the future, don't do it! Nobody likes to be shouted out even if that was not what you meant to do.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The transmission in the 1999-2001 Odyssey is nearly the same as the Accord and Acura TL piece. It is essentially a computer controlled manual gearbox, not the typical planetary design that most automatic transmissions use. The design isn't flawed at all, but it is inadequate for something as heavy as an Odyssey.
This extra weight, coupled with a typical minivan driver, creates extra heat inside the gearbox, and heat kills transmissions. Heat cooks the fluid, gums up passages, destroys clutches, and eventually causes failures. The pieces that fail are the *consumables* in case. That really means clutches and bearings. The shafts aren't breaking, the cases aren't warping, and the gears aren't breaking.
There is no filter on these units, only a magnetic drain plug. This is actually fairly typical anymore regardless of the manufacturer, which is too bad, but that can be fixed.
The only thing that can really be done here is to rebuild the transmission (which I am going to do myself), add the best aftermarket fluid cooler that you can get (The Honda unit isn't really up to task here), add an inline filter (I uses a Magnefine unit) and take it easy with the right foot.
The root cause is NOT a flawed design, but it is a case of Honda not really putting the best part in the drive train. There is a difference.
If anyone would like to discuss this in more detail, please let me know.
I've been taking care of my Odyssey, and all the major maintenances done in Honda dealer service, never towed anything, several long trips from Dallas to New Mexico (~600 miles distance).
Honda dealer gave estimate of $4500 to change transmission and torque converter. I'm looking for re-building it for less cost.
It's disappointing to have transmission failure just after 110K miles on a Honda, but it seems we can do nothing about it. Any other suggestions will be welcome.
I've owned Hondas for over 23 yrs and never had a complaint against Honda until our '00 Odyssey trans stopped working at 75K mi. We bought it new, paid a premium due to their excellent reviews/popularity, and purchased a 100K mi Honda Care Warranty. So, after regular maintenance and low mileage usage, we're told it's too late for any help from our dealer or Honda America, because it's been 10 yrs since we purchased it. Now, I'd be alright with that if we did something wrong or neglected to have it serviced. However, we did neither. Of course, we could discuss the question of time vs. mileage, but the point is, I feel cheated.
What am I supposed to do with that? Smile and walk away? I've owned Accords, Civics, an S2000 and an Odyssey. All of the other cars were reliable and performed beyond my expectations. I put 286K mi on the original engine and transmission of my '89 Accord! Despite all of that, I will take Honda to court before I walk away from their responsibilty for the transmission on my Odyssey because they're wrong, and I'm the customer...
Here is a quote from well respected builder Jasper about a 2003 Odyssey transmission:
“NOTE: Due to overheating & bluing of the torque converter from the
insufficient OE cooling system, 100% of these units will include the
required transmission cooler (P/N LPD4490). Installation instructions
will be included along with the unit & cooler.
Jasper updates the OEM converter's poor design by adjusting the
clearance and updating with a new Kevlar friction lining.”
Have a look at this Google search, there are filters in this transmission:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Honda+Odyssey+transmission+filters&btnG- =Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=Honda+Odyssey+transmission+filters&gs_rfai=Cv7M- QtbxiTOG3IIGgjgO3jYmQCQAAAKoEBU_QztQr&fp=8631cdd35a4d476d
Want more proof? Have a look at the rebuild videos at the bottom of this page:
http://www.squidoo.com/hondaodysseytransmissionfailure
http://cl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440072
I'm also well aware of Jasper's stance on this issue. Like I said, heat kills transmissions. Jasper offers a 3 year, 100,000 mile warranty on their rebuilt transmissions, so you better bet your britches they are insisting on a cooler being installed. Only a fool wouldn't put a cooler on a transmission that is hauling 5,000 pounds.
Regardless of all the complaining that is going on, none of this information really helps me. I got 190,000 out of my transmission, and if not for a $20 bearing letting go, I'd still be driving it. What's more, I'm going to fix it. Not my mechanic, not Honda...me. What I really need is some direction about the rebuild, not a bunch of pointless and wasteful whining about how someone is going to sue Honda.
If anyone can point me to someone who has successfully rebuilt Honda Odyssey transmissions I would appreciate the chance to contact them. In the mean time I've got wrenches to turn.
If this link times out, look up 1999 Odyssey “AT Shift Fork 4AT” it will show the filter, they call it a strainer (part number 007) but if you look at close up pictures elsewhere or in the videos from my previous post you’ll see it is indeed a filter.
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&cat- cgry1=ODYSSEY&catcgry2=1999&catcgry3=5DR+EX&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=AT+SHIFT+FOR- K+%284AT%29
I have a service manual for 99-04, it shows everything including how to rebuild the transmission, highly recommended.
Do you have AAA? Road hazard on your car insurance.
Check to see if they may pay for the tow to get the car repaired at a shop.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Personally, I'd probably look for something else as y'all have gotten your $ out of your Ody. Good luck and let us know what happens.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I have the transmission out of our van and on the bench. I should have it open by tomorrow.
No longer a 2 Ody family (also have a 2010 EX). At least we can't say it was the transmission that made us get rid of it.
They tried the same sales tactic with me. Sanjay Prakash, general manager of Honda of Ft Myers FL (a Sonic Automotive dealer) said he could “trade me out” for my Odyssey, wow what a great guy, I call about a problem with their dealership and he wants to sell me a car. He says he can make me a great deal, $1000 below invoice, I had already been looking at cars and knew AAA is at $3000 below invoice on 2010’s. Bad enough Honda sold us a bad product and won’t stand behind it, but Honda and the dealers are making money off the problems, which is not incentive to ever fix a problem.
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=7a2371431669b0febc381fc5dcde0407&- threadid=100814
The model 678 cooler looks like a great unit. Lots of fins to push heat out of the fluid. Should you also run the fan constantly? I'm not so sure on that. It won't hurt anything, but you might get tired of the noise.
In other news, I've nearly got the cases apart. One of the shaft bearings is bad for sure. I'm documenting and shooting video of the whole deal if anyone wants to see it.
link title
... and definitely for you PG, this, all five(5) pages of Master Theojo -
link title
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=94058
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=39c1ab612ab93e58927551e670f814c2&- threadid=37136&perpage=15&highlight=solenoid+valve&pagenumber=1
If anyone here has done this, please let me know.
(1) Regards cooler -- just got my 1999 hardcopy of the Honda manual today, and pages 14-128,9 show a radiator-style transmission cooler being flushed, probably a good scope adder for your work, if you hadn't already planned it, recalling Theojo had done that. I'm a city apartment dweller, don't have time to go look at the car just now, but believe the cooler in the not-so-clear diagram to be the closest to the bumper. Moving towards the engine must then be the AC condenser and then of course engine radiator. Maybe. Haven't yet done a proper look but should be doing so tomorrow, when I'm going to attempt to at least look at the screens of the four hopefully accessible transmission solenoids; LockUp + Shift Valves A, B, & C. Anyway, thought that cooler worth mentioning.
(2) Theojo apparently used a Helm manual for his 1998 trans rebuild, perhaps only for the clutches, as that's all I could locate just now on the Helm web site -
http://www.helminc.com/helm/search_service_owner.asp?session=25FF333C82354DF1975- 085D8AB505CAE&Style=helm&class%5F2=AHM
Hope things are going well for you.
I know there are some who have spoken unfavorably of AAMCO. I've check online and a Jasper tranny for the 2004 Odyssey runs $3200.00. So I guess it wasn't too bad getting the entire job done for $3000.00. Had I put in the Jasper tranny I'm certain the bill would have run near $4500.00 (p/l).
If your tranny is stil shuddering get a flush and fill or just have a mechanic you trust in your area have a look at it. It may just need a flush and fill or you may need a new tranny.
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=478984#post478984
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=004208abdc80390cd7d2a3ba590e3255&- threadid=52345&perpage=15&highlight=&pagenumber=1
... lot of repitition from this & other threads, but a few nuggets too.
It turns out that some of the bearings in the transfer gear, mounted just under the transmission cover (driver's side), were toast. They were grinding as I spun them in my hand. Today I order the rebuild kit and torque converter. Next week I'll break down the shafts one at a time, rebuild the valve body and accumulator, and clean everything before reassembly.
If anyone is interested in seeing the carnage, let me know and I can send some pics!
Honda, it would seem, should've definitely made cleaning that screen part of routine maintenance.
Bought my van with 154k miles almost two years ago, and it's now at 206k miles, going on 300k miles, all goes well. If I only new at 154k what I know now at 206 ...
So, got in the minivan cautiously optimistic, felt a discouraging initial minimal lunge into 2nd, however, after a few blocks, things seemed to improve, to the point where I had let myself believe major healing had occurred, only to then, a few blocks further on, have the trans start acting up some, slipping out of 1st gear shortly after taking off and hesitating before hitting 2nd with a lunge on occasion. Thus, cleaning that screen was not the "El Cheapo walk away from the trans for a good while" fix I had dreamt of, though the van does drive differently, and after later heading to the grocer and back, I would say things are definitely better, for whatever that's worth.
Was doing my work today at my mechanic's garage, as I feared the potential for need of professional assistance, and my mechanic had been kind enough to offer (known him for many years). Did not check the resistance nor test the solenoids, as I forgot my newly acquired Fluke meter at home and the mechanic's meter was out-of-whack, and the nice Fluke test leads I just bought were also conveniently at home. Planned on going back into that solenoid assembly again anyway, in case more gunk should appear (doubtful though, as it was more like a film type build-up), and will test those and any other solenoids I can get at later.
PG: It would of course be of great use were you to keep, if you will, a "phlog"
(= photo log) of your work. You are blazing a trail that I hope to follow at a later date, presuming the van can limp along for a few more weeks. Good luck to you.
When tearing down the tranny, I took great care in inspecting every ATF tube. The now famous *Three Musketeers* that inhabit the Clutch Pressure Control Solenoid assembly...the tubes with the screens in them...were completely clean. Actually, the case is nearly flawless in terms of cleanliness, and the fluid is bright red, like cough syrup. I believe this is a direct reflection of two things: 1.) My hypermaintenance schedule, i.e. draining and filling the tranny 2 of three times a year using Honda ATF Z1 fluid, and 2.) The installation of an inline filter.
I'm saying this again to underscore the imprtance of proper maintenance for this particular transaxle. This unit was used in the Accord, Pilot, Acure TL, and Isuzu van. It's a good design, but the extra weight and power of the 1999-2001 Odyssey, as compared to the 1995-1998 models, means the gears and bearings are under greater loads, which produces extra heat. This heat cooks the fluid into a gummy sludge, which then clogs the ATF tubes and results in the automotive equal of a heart attack for your transmission.
If you haven't serviced your transmission in the last year, do it today. If you don't have a filter, install one today. If you don't have a cooler in the system...install one today. Just like your heart, you must take care of this extremely important and expensive piece of equipment. Grumping about and talking about sueing Honda won't correct the problem. These vans are all way out of warranty range now, and crying about it is useless. Address the issues head on and you will be happier as well as educated about your van. That's a good thing in my book.
By the way, the factory filter consists of a plastic case with a sump that lives at the bottom of the case, and a sponge type filter material. It's completely inaccessible without splitting the cases, and I think it's a toy, so supplementing with an exterior / servicable filter is, in my opinion, very important. The Honda filter is $15, and a Magnefine unit is about the same price.
Also, there is a smallish rubber mount that helps to hold the tranny in place. I believe the engine and tranny assembly have five mounts in total, and this is the smallest one. Mine was almost torn in half, and I'm sure it was contributing to the *lurching* when coming to a stop. Again, eleven years from such a little part is pretty good, and it will be replaced.
Anyway, I still need to get the case bearings out, so it's back to the store today to rent a bearing puller. Wish me luck. After the case is completely stripped I'll scrub it with solvent and brushes. By the way, I have a B7TA tranny. I finally found the sticker under years of gunk.
How often should I have a transmission flush?
I had one done in Oct 09 and I have been told the van needs another now (after driving 13k miles) does this sound about right?
BTW, Carmax offered me $3k for the car yesterday. Should I just take the money and run?
No it doesn't. Usually flushed every 30k-60 k miles. Who said it needed flushed and why? If a Valvoline Instant Oil Change type of place then I'd forget about it. If dealership I'd want to know why. Take a look and take a whiff of the fluid is the best way to see if it needs changed. Should reddish or pinkish in color with no burn smell.
I began investigating and found Amsoil synthetic tranny fluid and convinced my dealer to dealer (didn't need much since the dealership's service manager himself has used Amsoil's other products) and did the usual drain and fill (thrice over following 15000 starting at about 60k on the car). I got my inspiration from some other post on bob is the oil buy forums who apparently claimed to be using the Amsoil fluid in his Honda's.
At this time I have about 120k miles on the ody and it shifts beautifully, no shudders, etc. I will probably do another tranny drain and fill and have my dealer give me sample of the old fluid - I suspect that it won't be as dirty as the Honda fluid would have been. I will report back with the results when I do so - sometime in winter.
I don't know if my Ody tranny is going to last any longer or not, but this has certainly given me hope.
This solution to me has been the cheapest and did not require any changes to the tranny such as after-market coolers, etc.
See my previous posts.
FWIW, I think the problem with the underdesigned and crappy tranny can be taken care of by the Amsoil fluid (note, that I have in my Acura TL with the same results).
Drain and fill. One week later, drain and fill. Another week after that...do it again. When the fluid that comes out looks like the fluid that is going in, then you can just change it annually. A 30,000 mile change interval for this gearbox in this vehicle is tooooo long! In an Accord it's just fine, but in a vehicle with a 3.5V-Tec pulling a vehicle that's 4,000 pounds without driver or cargo it means suicide for your transmission.
Oh yeah, install a transmission cooler, too. And an in-line filter. Your checkbook will be much happier.
Can you do a complete drain and fill on the Ody using the trans. cooler line? This way you drain a quart, add a quart etc etc. till the oil comes out red.
Do the drain and fill until the old fluid looks new. It took me about three times until I started feeling confident about the fluid in the gearbox. Again, when I split the cases last week the fluid in the tranny was bright red and smelled new. This transmission needs fresh, clean fluid to work properly.
You would be getting all the fluid out as you would be using the trans pump to do the work. One quart in and one quart out, when the dirty fluid comiing out looks like the clean red fluid being put in, then you've exchanged every drop.
I wished I had had this on before the tranny went at 180,000 kms. Dealer said Honda charges too much. Some of the Honda service desk people were once mechanics.
On my summer trip to Maine & the Maritimes I kept the speed at 105,kilometers/hour and got mostly 32 miles/gallon.
I understand the push back, but this is clearly a known issue. Now I am gonna be out somewhere between $1500-2000. Yeah, I won't be buying another Honda unless they step up and help.
Anybody want a used 2002 Odyssey? Needs a transmission!