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Comments
If I were looking to buy it and checking CR it would be a huge consideration for me - the whole point of buying a Honda is exceptional reliability. Sure, things happen but a reasonable response from Honda would be expected. In this case, they have the combo of a clear design problem, denial and atrocious customer service.
Having been such a strong Honda supporter in the past I wish on them the same uncompromising negative response that American Car makers suffered under for their design issues and indifference. Fair is fair - they clearly blew it on this issue and are having (many) customers take in on the chin. Never Honda again for me!
CR even RECOMMENDS the 2008 Honda Accord since (summarizing their words) the Hondas have been very reliable.
No mention is made of the transmission failure in the Honda Odysseys. :lemon:
1st time. - The rear right side tire was totally out. They said it was probably road hazard, but still replaced it for free
2nd time - The check engine light and VSA light came on and the engine was making weird noises while idling and with burning rubber noise. Took it to the dealership. They checked out and send they found engine code P1659 and it was just a temporary loss of traction, please watch and advise. I said fine and took it back.
3rd time - The same problem, this time additionally the power locks and the rear right sliding door stopped working. Came back home and thr door started working again. Took it back to the dealer, they said engine code P1659 showed up again and had to replace some sort of relay switch. Additionally they found a body code and couldn't diagnose what really the problem was since its working now.
4th time - Again VSA light and check engine light went on. This time to make matters worse, gas pedal wouldn't respond at all.Also power locks and sliding door didn't work also. Had to get the vehicle towed back to the dealership. Now the vehicle is with the dealer and I would be hearing from them on Monday. WIll keep this thread updated about progress.
The last sounds like a transmission issue to me. Buyers beware. I hope no one ever has my kind aof experience. Mean while I am considering invoking my CALIFORNIA lemon law rights Any advise?
After reading your post - YIKES!!!!
My problems started with a very hard shift into 3rd... and I could actually tell you when it was shifting just by the motion of the van. Then I had a hard downshift after slowing down (like going 'round corners). Then the kicker was when it wouldn't move out of 1st gear (revving to 4-5000 rpm) unless I totally took my foot off the gas.
I have a loaner '07 GX, and the difference in the ride is amazing! I realize just how bad my transmission was after driving this car.
Well, the shop just called to tell me that my van is ready, so I'll pick it up tonight and cross my fingers and pray!
We've pretty much stopped driving it and are using our 99 Windstar that we kept because the trade value was so low! Good thing, because in 8 years and 140000+ miles, the Windstar is still running great with never a major problem.
I did drive the Ody today to run a 5 minute errand and now it is not just the downshifting problem....it is lurching between all gears. Literally the van feels like it is slipping between each gear and revs the engine. I guess it will remain parked until Honday replaces it or buys it back.
We have the droning noise, the noisy windshield, the van pops and creaks when you turn the steering wheel to the left or when it goes over a bump, and the brake pedal goes almost all the way to the floor.
I guess if it is going to be a lemon...might as well be a whole bag of them.
We are just hoping that Honda will live up to it's responsibility and make this right. We waited 8 years to be able to buy an Odyssey and didn't expect this.
I am wondering whether the purpose for the existence of all the sophisticated laws and agencie is to protect the corporations and people or companies' with power to suppress any actions from the common people because we don't know how to handle it when situation arises. We get discouraged when we receive responses from the relevant agencies stating their limitations due to their "respective jurisdiction". You want to take legal action and in most cases your lawyers would not pick up your case on contingency basis unless it is a simple and straight forward case with definitive monetary compensation. Most lawyers would advise you not to pursue justice if it involves no monetary compensation.
I guess when something tragic happens, there maybe a chance that it can get some publicity that someone important or the news channels would like to make a sting out of it to get positive publicity.
Honda doesn't care about human lives and road safety but who with power cares. I still have my final hope on my complaint to www.safercar.gov. I hope they care but chances I think are slim because American Honda advises me that all their recall actions are approved by this government agency. I hope the existence of this agency is really here to protect us and not the manufacturer. I hope they are not here to ensure that affected customers of car manufacturers would understand that they have finally hit a dead end and all actions will be in vain even if they try.
Honda oh no, do you have any luck with your complaint?
IF YOU HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE, PLEASE TELL ME
And, please, don't scream at us.
What exactly happened?
Did the check engine light come on?
(If so, do you have access to an OBDII engine code reader?
Flashing green "D" indicator?
TSC light come on?
Have you already taken it in to the dealer?
Have you already contacted Honda Corporate "Customer Service" to open a case?
Have you had all your transmission fluid changes done at the dealer?
Do you have detailed maintenance receipts for all the services performed?
Even with 100% dealer performed services, do not expect Honda to pay 100% for your new transmission, but having such proof of dealership-performed service will go towards them extending you some "goodwill" as they call it...and don't count on the dealership to have all the records, according to the dealership where I went, all records are wiped out of their system every 2 years. Consider yourself lucky if you can get them to pay half.
See my previous posts about my odyssey in dealing with our Odyssey's tranny.
It is not a pleasant experience, but you will most likely not have to pay full price, but then again, it's a battle of patience and determination to get Honda to pay up any amount to "help" you out.
Also, for additional info, check out www.odyclub.com, and search "2002 transmission", you will find plenty of insightful comments.
Bottom line, I had to wait almost 4 weeks for them to do 2 days of work, and I still had to pay over $2200.00 (instead of $5000.00), AND ON TOP OF THAT the dealer still tried to tack on an additional $900.00 worth of work (motor mounts and Idle Air Control Valve) saying that they found these additional items needed attention while swapping out the tranny, ...talk about adding insult to injury!
After going through all this, dare I say it? Go buy a Dodge Caravan? (at least they now offer a LIFETIME powertrain warranty!!)
First car I bought out of college in 1990 was a Honda Accord.
My best friend bought a Honda Accord after college.
My other best friend has an Accord and an Odyssey.
My other best friend had a Civic and now drives a CR-V.
My wife had a Honda Accord when we met.
Her sisters and brothers, aunts, uncles, and cousins own at least a dozen Hondas/Acuras between them.
My wife's friends all own Hondas...etc, you get the picture.
Now I will tell everyone I know DON'T BUY ANY HONDA!
Customer Service does not exist there anymore, both at the dealer level and the corporate level.
1. Took the van to the dealer.
2. They took 2 days to figure out I need a new transmission, cost $5000.00
3. I say "too much", dealer talks to their "district service manager", they will pay 25%.
4. I contact Honda Corporate, and get a case manager. He calls back in less than 24 hours and lets me know that "he's working on it for me".
5. Case manager takes over 2 weeks to get his act together and coordinate with the dealer. (Meanwhile the van is still sitting at the dealer). Tried multiple times to contact the case manager, he never calls back, and his voicemail is full...
6. After "consulting with the dealer and the district service manager", the case manager finally tells me Honda Corporate will pay additional 25% and cover the cost of the transmission computer (the PCM - powertrain control module), and I am told the tranny will have 3yr/36k warranty since I am "contributing" to the replacement work...gee thanks a lot!
7. The work takes 2 days and I need to pay $2200+
8. Dealer tries to tack on an additional $900 for motor mounts and idle air control valve.
===================================
Comments from the dealer service "advisor" after I told him I found the tranny swap and labor for $1300 less at another dealership within 15 miles:
"You can take the van anywhere you want to, it doesn't matter to me. But since you opened a case with American Honda, don't expect the same deal there..."
===================================
Comments from the Honda "case manager" after I mentioned that paying $2200+ was still too much and that I saw others paying less or $0 on various forums, and that I and my family and friends have all owned many, many Hondas in the past:
"We don't have to do anything for you, you should be glad we are doing this much for you. If you don't accept our offer, we can retract it at anytime and you won't get anything."
===================================
After getting the van back, I notice no mention of warranty in the paperwork on the replaced tranny.
Called the dealer service advisor, and he says "since you declined the motor mounts, there's no warranty on the transmission". (this after just charging $2200+ to my credit card!!)
Called back the case manager, he confirmed I will have the warranty and it's noted on the case. (But they still will not mail me a hard copy confirmation of such noted facts...)
Called the service manager at the dealer and he confirmed that I will have the warranty also.(Again no printed confirmation.)
===================================
Obviously, Honda has sooo many customers that it doesn't bother them to alienate any of them and treat them like dirt. Must be nice.
I think that,due to the transmissions having been poorly engineered,leading to a DEFECTIVE unit,Honda should have assumed full responsibility and RECALLING all transmissions of the afected models. Instead they were able to get away with an extention on the warranty. I see countless cases of Odyssey owners being abused /penalized without much recourse (if any)in getting a fair settlement on their DEFECTIVE transmissions. It would be nice if the media could get interested in broadcasting this abuse by Honda Motors. Would you folks be interested in trying to contact the media, to let the general public get a wind on what they are getting into when buying a Honda product? Let's do it !!
Also I would like to design a sign (to affix on the rear window) reading something like "This Honda is a LEMON !! Defective transmissions installed..!!Don't buy a Honda product !! Don't be Honda's next victim" I assume that we have the right to free speech..don't we?
The transmission was poorly engineered, so if they had to recall them, they still wouldn't be able to fix it because we would just get a remanufacturered version of the same faulty design... And we'd be right back at square one..
The only way out would be to give new Odysseys to everyone.. But I think that would cost Honda way too much.
So I can't seem to come up with a "reasonable" fix for the problem...
Have you seen the postings on transmissions on 2007 and 2008 models?
Maybe Honda should hand out Siennas or Caravans instead!
No lawyer would take your case on contingency basis since the monetary reward would not justify their costs. Lawyers are more interested in simple cases like injury claim which we can well handle it ourselves. It is impossible to pursue action unless the topic is hot or news worthy.
Honda does not care about human lives and road safety. I hope one of us is so lucky to attract someone with influence and power to look into this outrageous matter. One of us is so lucky to find this someone who cares about human lives and road safety.
And I know that even the new ones have transmission issues, but my local dealer is good at going to bat for their customers..
I know for sure I would not want a Caravan instead.. A Sienna, maybe, but definitely not a Caravan.
To us, there is no point to take the risk to buy another Honda because they are truly irresponsible and do not care about human lives and road safety which is evidenced by the manner they are handling their transmission flaw.
Multiple rating agencies disagree with you on Honda.
I have lost faith in Honda. I have owned numerous Honda's and never this level of problems. We were just thinking of trading the Odyssey for a Pilot - NOT NOW. I was also looking to get a new Ridgeline to replace my Explorer (which has been generally problem free) NOT NOW. I also need to rethink how long I will keep my Honda PWC.
Called N. American Honda 4 times still same story out of warranty.Nationa higthway Safety Administration is studying my case now.BBB could'nt help.The Attorney General was given the following surprising statement * The consumer have to call us himself *This was previously done 2 times.
For short,Honda is just giving me the run around.I'm so outraged!Here's my question:How can we all get together and sue Honda?We'd be able to do this rit?Just like the class action settlement again Honda!?Can we get in touch wit those lawyers & go from there?Union is power rit?!
The unnecessarily complicated laws which put us off to handle even the simplest case ourselves in case of any legal complications. The existence of the unnecessarily complicated laws has suppressed us from seeking fairness ourselves. Why isn't there a government agency to deal with screening complaints and allocate to the responsible agency and to monitor its progress to ensure the complaints are properly handled?
The Safer Car. Gov is well aware of the Honda's recalls. Why are they so loose on Honda? The 03 recall by Honda to install the oil jet kit was only to delay temporarily the transmission failure until after our warranty expired. The manner Honda is handling their design flaw is ruthless. They are well aware that the transmission can sudden lock up due to warm up and can result in deadly car crash. This happened to my family shortly before last Christmas. We escaped the deadly crash because other driver jammed their brakes and swerved to the side of the busy freeway.
The SaferCar.gov is well aware of the Honda's transmission design flaw even before year 2000. Did they do anything to stop them from selling these cars until they have corrected the problem? Instead they approved them to install the oil jet kit with the 03 recall to help them to be fully responsible for their mistake. I am sure the government will eventually take action only when most of us either have lost our rights or already paid for Honda's design errors. You should save all the receipts for future claims.
American Honda does not care about human lives or road safety. I hope I am wrong that the government does care. It is an outrage that Honda is still allowed to continue to sell these dangerous cars in question.
What a nightmare! ... at least we all learned NEVER TO BUY A CAR FROM A SCOOTER MAKER !!!!!
Honda does not care about human lives and road safety. I am not sure if the government cares. If they care, they would have stopped Honda to sell these cars with design flaw until their design flaw is fully corrected.
I am not sure what to tell you to do.
Did you get a case assigned to you by Honda of NA? Did you get to speak to a case manager? How did you contact them? Was it only through your dealer? I do not know if they are covering the 2003 models as well as the 2002 models. Ours was a 2002.
During my multiple conversations with the case manager at Honda of NA, I went into a lot of detail. I noted to them at least 5 cases of 2000-2001 Odysseys owned by friends and family (with at least 3 other VIN #'s) where Honda completely covered the transmission. I also noted to them some of the inherent design problems with the transmission (read back a good bit on this blog and on OdyClub.com for details). This transmission had an extra gear added, and then they upped the HP by 35 HP in 2002, which all caused additional stress on a weak transmission design. In addition, I mentioned the class action suit and settlement that Honda had for the 1999-2001 Odyssey transmissions (just Google that one and see the # of hits you get). In addition, I also mentioned that a close friend of mine (who is an attorney and partner in a large regional firm) won a landmark multi-million $ wrongful death suit against GM due to design issues with certain Cadillac models. I also noted from this board at least 6 cases of Honda paying for the complete repair for 2002's. In addition, I detailed for them our ownership of 3 prior Honda's, as well as detailed service records of all of our work at the local dealer. Further, I made note of the extended warranty that we had (which their dealer had sold us) in which the company went bankrupt 4 months before we had the problem with the transmission. Please note that we took the car in for a 60K service in Oct 2006, and the dealer recommended a transmission flush and fill as part of the scheduled maintenance. Our problems with the transmission got a lot worse (left my wife stranded as the car would not move) the week following this work. They tried to wait us out on the issue, but we had an extra car to use (from my parents). Honda of NA took their good old time getting back to us, but ultimately they approved covering the transmission and the labor. We only had to pay for shipping the transmission.
Due to (it seems) a lot more cases of transmission failure, Honda of NA may be sticking more to their warranty policy than they did in late 2006. I really cannot say for sure. I have kept up on the messages in this board, and it seems like there are a lot more cases as these vans age.
Good luck, and let this board know your results.
I personaly took it serioulsy,I saved money for three years to get the Oddy :lemon: and since I was looking for safety for my kids and myself,Now
You folks Won't believe people's face when read my post on the back windshield of my 2002 :lemon: Ody,They look at my Vehicle absolutely Shocked!!!
You guys can see it on the below link:
http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t149/pinedalle/
Also it would be very interesting to contact de media on this Honda situation
I sent a e-mail to CBS but got no response(will cotinue trying with other channels)
Remember..this is a VERY EFFECTIVE way to get back at Honda Motors.
Every person that sees this sign will,in turn comment with others and it will mushroom into a large amount of individuals.
LET'S SPREED THE NEWS !!!! ...it will translate into lost sales for Honda Motors ..FOR SURE!!!!
LET'S KEEP UP WITH THE GOOD WORK!!!!
In September 2007 we were traveling back from a weekend away and a "thunk" occurred and the D shift light started blinking, the TCS light came on, the engine symbol light came on and the speedometer needle dropped to 0. All this occurred on I-95 south of D.C. in heavy traffic at 70 mph! The van was still running when I got to the side of the road and limped to the next exit. We limped to a Honda dealer nearby and he said we could drive home. Occasionally the speedometer would work. It seemed like the van was using 2nd and 3rd gears. We took it to our Honda dealer the next day. They thought the Power Control Module (PCM) might need replacing for ~$1000. They tried reloading the software into it and it worked!
This lasted a week when on an easy drive in the neighborhood we again had the same lights and the transmission reverting to some emergency mode using what seems to be only 2nd and 3rd gear. This time the dealer replaced the speed sensor in the transmission. This seemed to fix the problems, except for a perception of occasional rough shift from 1st to 2nd and an intermittent idle problem where the engine would surge to just above 1000 rpm and back to idle. Otherwise, no problems.
Fast forward to a couple days ago Feb 2008 and the whole problem came back with the D light blinking, the TCS and Engine symbol lights on and bad shifting (reving high). My wife took it to the dealer for this third time in the afternoon and it seemed to be working better but still with the Engine symbol light on. We're waiting for the dealer to call back. I'm pretty leery after reading the similar problems folks have had. We're right at the 60,000 mile point. I already had to replace the power steering pump at around 40,000 miles and the front engine mount around 53,000 miles and the front brake rotors around 55,000 miles. All fairly expensive.
You have 2 options:
1. You could do one of the temporary fixes and then sell it off to CarMax or trade it in on some other car
2. Try and get a new transmission out of Honda. Given the recent cases, this is much harder than it was 3 years ago.
You should call American Honda at 800-999-1009 to open a case to see what they say. I am pretty sure your transmission is at its final stage. You should not decline any offer because they will without mercy to retract it. You can continue to negotiate for more since all your work has been done by the dealer. If their offer is less than satisfactory, you can ask to talk to your case manager's supervisor. More than 99% chances, he/she would tell you that they are the manager and the decision is final. You can try to call the above number again to request someone to re-review your case.
With Honda's transmission issue, I feel neither the government nor American Honda cares about human lives nor road safety. The government only cares about protecting the car manufacturer. If the government does care, it would not have allowed Honda to continue to sell these faulty Odysseys until they have corrected their design failure. How dare the government allow them to install the oil jet kit (03 Recall) to postpone the failure until our original warranty has expired!
You should though save all your receipts for possible reimbursements in the future. I am sure the government will eventually do something about it like a class action lawsuit when they are sure most of Honda's affected customers have changed ownership, fixed the problem at their own costs or would have lost their right even with extended warranty awarded under the action.
Good luck!
I wanna see that!!.
See this Link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9EK_-3TFD2E
I would be willing to obtain the following domains;
www.hondaodysseysuck.com
www.hondaodysseylemon.com
www.hondaodysseytransmissionfailure.com
We can go back to grassroots Internet efforts - the "Open Letter". It may not work but then again it might. At the very least we can post our complaints and Honda America Corp will NOT like those domains and the accompanying keywords showing up on the WorldWideWaste
I will also buy Google keywords to make sure we come up on the top of the search:)
You can respond to this via the group here or to peter.giza@gmail.com with ODYSSEY LEMON in the subject line.
There are way too many people have problems including myself with a 2001 EX will its second transmission failed at 136K miles and Honda refuses to do anything for me except charge me a "bargain" $2500 for a new tranny installed.
Best regards,
Peter
I don't think that fix lasted very long, though.
And to the person about to get a Chevrolet Venture, please don't. Just look at the safety records of the Venture. At least get a Sienna.
I speculate that the Korean manufacturers are where Honda was several years ago before they got full of themselves. My next new car (coming up soon thanks to my dying oddy) is likely to be either a Hyundai or KIA, though I do plan on giving the Domestics a second look as well. My Oddy experience taught me that my blind "faith" in Honda was misplaced; I think each model/purchase deserves considerable scrutiny - I would guess many other buyers were in the same boat. I had very good experiences with my previous Hondas but it's the extremely poor customer service that was the kicker - they could have retained me a potential future customer for a couple grand (shared cost) and actively chose not to...