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Comments
Drew
I think it would take a fuel expert, someone who has been in the cracking of hydrocarbon buisness to tell us whether Japanese gas is inferior in this way.
I know they have lower sulfur content over there but that doesnt really have anything to do with the regular-premium issue.
I have run mid grade with no drop in mileage or performance. No "pinging" although these vehicles may have an engine management system that retards timing with lower grade fuel.
I have the shop manuals, perhaps I will take a closer look.
thx
Montero LTD on Saturday.
I faxed all the dealers within 100 miles last week and asked for
bids. I got a 2001 Monty LTD with no rear air or any other options
for 33,076 + tax and lic.
I bought from Browning Mitsubishi in Cerritos. Thier bid was substatially lower than the others that I received. The sales manager's name is Bryant Lee. No hassle. They treated me very well.
you can email me at shakti4U@netzero.net
thx
I have the shop manuals, perhaps I will take a closer look.<<
Well I would like to know what the Real Truth here is. I do realize there may be some confusion. The owners manual does not really address the question well but the sticker says premium.
A couple of points: Allowing for the Mngmt System to Retard Timing is fine but it is not intended for long term use. Thus my comment that asks why would one use somthing other than whats recommended. ie. Save $2.00 a tank in your $35,000 vehicle. Second - there may be some confusion with U.S. grades but the sticker is in English not Japanese. I know.... that was more of a humorous comment. It still doesn't prove there was no confusion.
Honestly, I would like to know what Rating this engine was designed for. I am strongly against using anything higher or lower over the long term. That's something the experts all agree on. Marketing has caused people to think "Premium" is Better. Not true. Better is to using the octane rating that the engine is designed for. If it's designed for 87, then that's what is "Better". Using 92 in that instance is a waste and actually a detriment to your engine - but the reverse is Much more damaging. That's why, for now, I'm sticking with the Premium listed on the fuel door.
Drew
I am also interested in the octane required for the 2001 Montes, so I will do some checking from this end. The other part of the equation is the 10% alcohol being added to the gas in many parts of the country for air pollution control, especially in the fall and winter months in this part of WA. The gas mileage drops about the same 10% using this mix from tests that I have run and several people that I know that ran this own tests. Anybody have any official tests? I go to Idaho and get real gasoline when possible.
No "Check Engine" light problems, since second fix and 350 miles back
The larger questions still remain.
1. Is it true that Japanese gas is rated different such that American reg or mid grade is equal to Japanese "premium"?
2. Does the Montero have an engine management system, does it retard timing a little, does this hurt anything but performace long term?
Until these questions are answered it seems it would be prudent to run premium fuel. It would be interesting to find out that our octane in our premium exceeds that in the premium in Japan dont you think?
I would agree with you that about 10% improvement.
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_Gasoline6.html
6.13) Can higher octane fuels give me more power?
On modern engines with sophisticated engine management systems, the engine can operate efficiently on fuels of a wider range of octane rating, but there remains an optimum octane for the engine under specific driving conditions. Older cars without such systems are more restricted in their choice of fuel, as the engine can not automatically adjust to accommodate lower octane fuel. Because knock is so destructive, owners of older cars must use fuel that will not knock under the most demanding conditions they encounter, and must continue to use that fuel, even if they only occasionally require the octane.
If you are already using the proper octane fuel, you will not obtain more power from higher octane fuels. The engine will be already operating at optimum settings, and a higher octane should have no effect on the management system. Your driveability and fuel economy will remain the same. The higher octane fuel costs more, so you are just throwing money away. If you are already using a fuel with an octane rating slightly below the optimum, then using a higher octane fuel will cause the engine management system to move to the optimum settings, possibly resulting in both increased power and improved fuel economy. You may be able to change octanes between seasons ( reduce octane in winter ) to obtain the most cost-effective fuel without loss of driveability.
Once you have identified the fuel that keeps the engine at optimum settings, there is no advantage in moving to an even higher octane fuel. The manufacturer's recommendation is conservative, so you may be able to carefully reduce the fuel octane. The penalty for getting it badly wrong, and not realising that you have, could be expensive engine damage.
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6.14) Does low octane fuel increase engine wear?
Not if you are meeting the octane requirement of the engine. If you are not meeting the octane requirement, the engine will rapidly suffer major damage due to knock. You must not use fuels that produce sustained audible knock, as engine damage will occur. If the octane is just sufficient, the engine management system will move settings to a less optimal position, and the only major penalty will be increased costs due to poor fuel economy. Whenever possible, engines should be operated at the optimum position for long-term reliability. Engine wear is mainly related to design, manufacturing, maintenance and lubrication factors. Once the octane and run-on requirements of the engine are satisfied, increased octane will have no beneficial effect on the engine. Run-on is the tendency of an engine to continue running after the ignition has been switched off, and is discussed in more detail in Section 8.2. The quality of gasoline, and the additive package used, would be more likely to affect the rate of engine wear, rather than the octane rating.
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There are two (actually three) ways to measure octane. The value referenced in the owners manual is for RON? The value of the octane as described on US pumps is figured as (RON+MON)/2 and since MON is always a lower value, you will find that our US 92 octane is better than Euro 95 octane RON.
Locked it in for once. Took me a total of 4 visits to 4 different dealerships to get this one. Got a limited white Monty w/ rear air, and running boards for 34,259 including 5.9% financing, and 180 days/6 month deffered payments, plus they gave me more than what I wanted on my trade in! very hard to get a deal like this while trading in a 5 yr old used car. The service of this dealership was very down to earth, and customer friendly! They accommodated me in every way possible.......located in Rahway NJ.
only one thing concerned me......this dealer had over 30 new MONTY'S on his lot.....hmmmmmm.
pickin it up tomorrow, can't wait!!!
-A
But our question is still there: What REALLY is the optimal octane for our Montero's? I beleive that we have a mngmt system that will allow us to use lower octanes but I want to run with a fuel that will NOT cause engine settings to be adjusted. I'm starting to wonder if we'll ever get a straight answer. Dealers want to sell cars so they just say - use Regular.
The Mystery continues.
Drew
I have a couple emails out to folks to try to get this answer. In the meantime it is premium or 1/2 premium 1/2 midgrade, no lower for me.
One more thing, confirmed in the articles is that you can use LOWER octane safely at altitude. This is something I have done for years. Used to have a high perf Firebird that needed higher grade at sea level but ran fine on regular at 6000ft. The lower atm pressure actually lowers engine pressures and as such pre detonation is less likely to happen.
I think you could certainly run mid grade safely or possibly even regular at 6000ft or above in the Montero. Again, just a matter of comfort level with your choice.
If anyone has purchased one in Rhode Island or Massachusetts please post where!
Karno1, let me know if your happy! If I have to drive to NJ, I will !
Sometimes us yankee's can be real cheap!
One item that you're not including is the advertising fee. It's 921$ or thereabouts, and is charged to the dealers by an Advertising association that they are forced to join... (I'm not defending it, but I understand that it is legitimate) www.fightingchance.com is a source of great information. I got my LTD w/rear air and running bds for 34881. I could have done better, but I didn't want to beat the dealer up, since I wanted to have the car serviced there. Some posts claim 33700 for a LTD. I'm skeptical. If you find a dealer with lots of these to sell, I think that you can get down to the 34,200 range now, what with the economy and all....
Now I have something for the group. I have not sent in my CSI yet, I just got it last week from JD Powers. However about a week before I got it, I got a letter from the dealer instructing me how to fill it out! He had the nerve to write that "JD Power will not get involved in making your lease/purchase more enjoyable" He said that JD Power looks at the surveys, and then send them to the dealer. The clear message that I got was "fill it out right or else". Considering that I was very happy with the dealer until I got that letter, I don't know what to do. I'm really angry about it, and I'm tempted to send the letter to Mitsubishi and to JDPower, and slam them on the CSI. But I thought I would ask this astute body what they thought...(smile). Thanks for responding.
Eric
Since you can get a new one for 34,500, lets start there. Subtract .15/mile. If it has 8K, then subtract 1200$ That's 33,300 as a fair price. I'd start at 33,100, work up to 33,400, and make them throw in an extended warranty at 1/2 price (They'll do it.)
The new breakdown is $33,481 (incl) dest for a base add $783 + adv fee which is $371 instead of $900+
What has really gone up I guess is the base price and dealers are adjusting down their add fees
Anyways I have a question for Monty Owners out there anyone bought add'l warranty and if so can you send me an email about what to pay if this comes down to a deal breaker
shakti4u@netzero.net
thx for all replies and feedbacks
I've checked evrywhere on net. All invoices are cheaper. ???
Please help me make my wife happy
The desert wildflower season is just underway, with a better than average bloom at Joshua Tree National Park, Anza- Borrego State Park, and starting, I hear, in the East Mojave National Preserve. The California Poppie Reserve between Gorman and Lancaster opens this weekend, but its still early at that elevation for any bloom.
We were down at A-B last week. Beautiful blooms along Henderson Canyon of Sand Verbina. Check out the A-B S.P. website. (This road is paved)
The real fun in A-B is taking the trails. We went up into Coyote Canyon as far as the third crossing of the creek. The first crossing is dry, but is where most 2-wheel drivers stop due to deep, loose sand. We forded the stream at the second crossing. This was great, there were a lot of folk stopped here by the 10-12 inch deep, 20 yard wide crossing. We stopped before the third crossing because I couldn't convince my wife it was shallower than the second (and my son stole my tow strap for his Trooper).
Lots and lots of Ocotillo that has put out leaves, and should be in full bloom by April 1 along this section of the trail.
Also took the trail down to Fonts Point, very sandy. (4-WD, required this year, and I would agree, according to the Rangers at the Visitors Center in Borrego Springs. Also took the Arroyo Salada trail as far as Five Palms oasos. This is great practice and not too difficult if you have never driven off-road much. Also quite a few other friendly off-roaders, so even if you had a breakdown, someone will come along within 15-20 minutes to help you out.
Still havn't downloaded photos of the Monte in Death Valley, so I guess I won't promise photos of crossing the creek anytime soon.
PHOnos, 2001 Montero Ltd, rear A/C, Aug 2000, build date July 1999, $34,500 (no extras, darn!)+ TTL, 4.9% for 48 months, Orange County, CA. (Extended warrenty through Credit Union was about half the price of that through the dealer. Shop around.)
On the J.D. Power survey issue noted by ehollis, I, too, received a phone call from the dealer, although the suggestions that I received were not as brash as those by ehollis's dealer. Mine just said that if I gave them anything less than "excellent," it wouldn't count for much and that they would sure appreciate it if I would rate them as "excellent." But I have had the same treatment from my Volvo dealer. I guess that's the way of the world now since everything is done by taking polls today. I wonder if there are any dealers who read this board who might want to weigh in?
Have you seen the tubular ones on the Mercedes ML? They fit snug near the body.
Do the Montero bars also sit pretty close?
Anybody else want to weigh in on the CSI issue? I'm really hot about it. Any dealers out there want to comment on the integrity of the JD Power process?
ehollis, I think your CSI JD Powers story is all too common. My family bought two new cars in 2000 and 2001, a Honda Accord and a Hyundai Santa Fe. Both dealers treated us OK but after the deal was signed and checks handed over, both saleman (and saleswomen) were very agressive to say "if you can't give me a perfect score on the Manufacturers Survey, please don't fill it out at all. I need only perfect scores". This really ticked me off so I decided to grade each lower on just that point. What cohones on both the girl and the guy!!!
We were quoted a price 35,370 without haggling the price.
After reading the comments, we would definitely like one that includes running boards, wind deflector and tow package. Does anyone know where we could get the best deal in Northern New Jersey? We are not committed to any one dealer as of yet.
Thanks,
Joyce & Greg
Good posts on the octane requirements, it will be nice to know what octane the engine is designed to run on.
I will try and find the name and web site.
I was lined up to get a set of Manik guards on a beige 2001 Montero XLS so I know they are available. Another nice feature is they have holes already drilled for roadlights. I drilled a little more and installed a set of the most powerful Daylighters in black trim and they work great; saved my neck a few times on some dark roads and highways. Good luck bud, I think your looking about $1000 for all (black) (minus side rails but including roadlights installed), which is a bargain.
These are the legendary ones.
I have heard from others that just because the light is on doesnt mean the compressor is engaged so I might be overly paranoid here.
http://www.overlander.com/jpgs_bars_bumpers/jaos_bbar_mont01.jpg
http://www.overlander.com/pages_exterior/bbar_fr.tpl?cart=30682814771278645
They report 14.9 mpg average. Pretty low compared to my mileage but I dont know how much off roading they are doing.
They mentioned the marked increase in Mitsubishi quality that they have noticed over the years.
However, unless its REALLY cold, you really don't need the compressor on...
On the octane best for the 2001 Monte subject:
I requested an official response on the octane rating(American) the engine was design for from the Mitsubishi representative. Hope to get something next week.
Has anybody decided or bought good off road/winter tires and rims yet?
Thanks.