Jeep Liberty Diesel EGR Problems

mtb_tdi · December 2008

Don't know about the smog check. They don't test where I live and it is for off road use, so you wouldn't be getting it tested anyway, right?

No Check engine codes show up.

caribou1 · December 2008

Regarding the smog test, all you need to do is drive about 50 miles at sustained speed before doing the test. Bring the truck while it's still making the typical 'clicking' sounds. Mine remains in the lower third of the opacity scale given for it's category, and I forgot about my EGR 4 years ago :shades:

willysjeep · December 2008

At 43,000 miles my EGR valve is going to be replaced. I had some work done at the dealer and after the work heard an intermittent buzzing noise. It sounded like a giant pager. I brought the vehicle back to the dealer and received the bad news. The dealer told me that the valve will be covered by my extended warranty and that I may continue to drive it. Chrysler Corp has known of this problem for some time. This forum goes back to 2006. I looked back over the previous posts for items to assure that I won't have to replace the EGR valve again in the near future. Here's what I've noted. It would be appreciated if other items were added to this list.

1) Don't use gooky oil. Seems like the Mobil 1 0-W-40 helps prevent EGR problems.

2) Buy Ultra Low Sulfer fuel. You have to look on the pump to assure that you are getting the ultra low sulfer fuel.

3) Replace the PCM at the same time as the EGR valve. My problem is that I don't know what the PCM is.

4) Replace the fuel filter at the same time as the EGR valve.

5) After the warranty period is up, make a bypass plate for the EGR valve and figure out how to keep the Engine trouble light from being continuously lit by this problem. A software change may be in order and another chip may need to be burned.

6) Sell the Liberty diesel and go back to a gas engine. (I had a Dodge Dakota for 12 years with very few problems.)

What important advice did I miss?

What actually fails on these EGR valves? Can they be cleaned and rebuilt?

This is a good forum that can provide a lot of useful information.

spete · March 2009

I changed my fuel filter last fall - in fact I am on my 3rd filter. I figure that this is a very inexpensive way to prevent a lot of problems. I have traveled a lot of long trips and I get leery with a lot of the places that you end up buying fuel. If I could always refuel locally I wouldn't worry so much about the filter - but when you travel you never know how "clean" the fuel is that you are getting. Another question...do your rear brakes make a "funny noise" in certain weather conditions when you are backing up? This noise is a "cross between and squeak and a growl" and I only here it in damp, cool weather conditions. It always goes away so I do not worry about it. I put new brake pads all around last fall too - but the noise still comes and goes.

gh1961 · December 2009

DC has a jam up off-road package for the CRD!!!!...it's an extended warranty with a rental car allowance while the car is in the service bay

willysjeep · January 2010

Since my last entry above on Dec 19 2008, my EGR valve has been behaving itself until the last few weeks. The yellow light came on just like last year about this time. Actually little over a year now since it's 2010. I've been doing some basic research on this thing and I hope to help other people like me that don't know about the EGR valve. I'm one of those who used to clean carburetors in coffee cans with gumout so some of the newer automotive stuff is,.....well,...it's new to me.

How do I know it is the EGR valve causing the yellow light to go on? There are tools out there that plug into your car into a plug on the right of the steering column. These are like meters that have OBD II capability. They give codes telling you what went wrong with your Jeep. Good auto parts stores have these and will even read the codes for you. They did it for me.

One of the things that bugs me is acronyms. If things are spelled out, I can usually get the gist of what someone is trying to say. There must be others like me. Here's the major acronyms that have been used in this topic discussion.

CRD - Continuous Rail Diesel (The same CRD as on your rear hatch.)
EGR - Exhaust Gas Recirculation
PCM - Power Train Control Module
CEL - Check Engine Light (That yeller light)
CCV - Crankcase Ventilation System
ABS - Antilock Braking System
ECU - Electronic Control Unit

I hope this helps. I didn't know what a PCM was a year ago.

What's the EGR valve do? It is a solenoid valve that feeds back exhaust into the intake to eliminate the formation of Nitrogen Oxides. It closes down at low loads since exhaust will not burn well and give you a rough idle or cause your vehicle to stall out if stuck open. The vehicle should still run OK going fast.

What's the most likely cause of it not working right? Everyone hints at it in the posts, but nobody comes right out and says it. It gets dirty.

Can the valve be cleaned? Seems like the fix is always to replace it. I don't know why. Why not clean it? Seems like gumout should work on the valve part, but not on the wiring.

How do you work on it? Here's a summary of fixit instructions to take the thing out. I haven't done these steps. I stole them from a repair book and slightly paraphrased them.

Remove the (-) battery cable.

Disconnect the EGR wiring connector.

Disconnect the charge air inlet hose.

Take off the generator / intake manifold support bracket.

Split the dipstick tube and vacuum pipe from the valve.

Take off the tube connected to the back of the valve.

Remove the air control valve bolts and take the valve out.

My Jeep still idles well even with the valve being said to be bad. I've done some idling to warm up the Jeep since it's very cold where I live. In fact it's close to below zero Fahrenheit right now which is why I'm not inspecting my EGR and am typing this instead. Cold weather idling produces dirty soot. I'm thinking this has gunked up the valve. I'm thinking the valve got dirty.

It was suggested in an earlier post to replace the PCM with the valve. There doesn't seem to be a common failure mode between the two components to me. That PCM most likely does a lot more than control this valve and other symptoms should show up if the module has gone bad.

I hope this further information helps someone out. My Jeep has about 53 or 54 kmiles on it now so I'm hoping the dealer will help me out with this valve again. I haven't been to them since Uncle Sam loaned them the big bucks.

I'd appreciate feedback on this.

willysjeep · January 2010

My yeller check engine light went out.

I filled my tank with Holiday brand diesel, added some Sea Foam and started the vehicle up. The light immediately went out. Holiday gasoline is often slandered by many people, but they had the low sulfer diesel in my town long before the other gas stations. My Jeep seems to run better with the stuff. I filled up with BP diesel a week ago and the check engine light came on. Is this a coincidence? They are all low sulfer now.

In searching the internet for information on this, I've learned that Jeep CRD owners in other countries do not experience the EGR problems like we in the US (and probably Canada) do. They refine their diesel better in places like Europe and Australia. It makes me wonder how they could sell this vehicle in this country if the proper fuel wasn't available. What bean-counter over rode the engineers on that one?

I've been told by many people that even something as simple as a bad gas cap can cause the Check Engine Light to come on. What I haven't been told is what code does a loose gas cap set? Can a loose gas cap somehow fool the computer into thinking there is an EGR problem?

I found a list of OBD II codes for the Jeep. They are at the following site.

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/jeep/Jeep-OBDII-Codes.htm

Jeep Codes

None say loose gas cap. I'm not sure which code is effected when the gas cap is loose.

This has been frustrating enough that I've ordered one of those little serial port OBD II checkers so that I can analyze and reset the Check Engine light on my own.

I'd like to know what sensory inputs the Jeep uses to determine the EGR is bad. Since there is no direct sensing of valve position, this has to be a derived quantity. The logic that the Jeep uses must be recorded somewhere.

I'm still hoping that some of you can guide me with EGR wisdom as I blunder down my trail.

doc53 · January 2010

As to the diesel fuel issue quality Europe is ahead of the USA and something that is slowly improving. As to your fill up issue and the CEL coming on was coincidence it usually takes as least 2 igntion cycles of a confirmed problem to turn the CEL on and it takes 3 good ignition cycles with no problem re-occuring to turn the CEL out.

As for the bad gas cap this is only on gasoline engines. Gasoline fuel systems emit vapors where as Diesel fuel does not and part of the EPA testing is containing the fuel vapors in a fuel system reducing the Hydrocarbons getting into the atmosphere. So the manufactures had to come up with a sealed fuel system to prevent vapors from leaking out of your fuel system plus while fueling up the vehicle had to capture those vapors by sending it thru a charcoal canister to store the vapors and then later burning the vapors in your engine. The computer peforms a test on the system to determine how well it is sealed and with a loose of defective gas cap the system determines there is a leak and turns the CEL on. They now performs tests on the system to detect a hole as small as .010 of an inch which is about the diameter of the hair on ones head, so finding these small holes can be a chore to find.

As to detecting the operation of the EGR valve this is using the sensor that is located in the Air cleaner housing called a Mass air flow sensor. With the engine running and EGR valve closed the computer monitors the incoming air flow. When the EGR opens this brings in exhaust air from the exhaust system which is after the MAF sensor which is called unmetered air this then reduces the amount of air coming thru the air cleaner assembly this reduces the amount of air passing by the MAF sensor this is how the PCM now determines the EGR has now opened. There is also one more part that has to play in this calculation and this is the EGR air flow regulator valve since a diesel engine does not produce vacuum like a gas engine does there was the need to create a pressure differential in the intake system in order for the EGR gases to be routed into the intake system. This valve will close or partial close restricting the incoming of fresh air and causing the Exhaust gases to be added to the incoming air to the cylinders

CRD_Bullydog · January 2010

Hey Guys,

I have a 2005 Jiberty CRD Limited, 157,000 miles. No EGR changed, changed fuel filters every 30K. Had transmission recall. Had PCM programmed according to Service Bulletins. That is all. :shades:

If you dealor is scaming you call the LAWYERS! :mad: If Chrysler isn't addressing your emissions problems (EGR is emissions and under a 7 year Federal warranty) call a LAWYER. :mad: Call the state attorney general's office. Call the repairshop licensing agency (usually the secretary of state). File sworn complaints. :lemon:

I LOVE MY JEEP!

willysjeep · January 2010

CRD Bulldog wrote:

If you dealor is scaming you call the LAWYERS! If Chrysler isn't addressing your emissions problems (EGR is emissions and under a 7 year Federal warranty) call a LAWYER. Call the state attorney general's office.

Whew! This is a small town in somewhat of an isolated area. People know each other here. Some of the guys at the dealership may even live close to me. I'm not ready to call the dogs out on them.

In fact I called them up and talked to them about it. They were very nice. They told me that I wasn't the only CRD having this problem with the EGR code. The other CRD has been in and they've changed sensors to no avail. The problem comes back like a bad penny in a gumball machine. The dealer told me over the phone not to get too upset over it. There aren't too many of these CRDs hereabouts so the dealer's mechanics can't get a lot of experience with them.

There are no emission control checks in this area. I'm far more worried about pollution from wood smoke than I am from motor vehicles. (Lots of outdoor wood boilers around here.) And... I'm not too worried about the wood smoke either. The Jeep seems to run the same when the yeller light is on or when the yeller light is off.

I have received my mail order OBD II checker. Every time the yeller light comes on, I have the P0403 code and the description, EGR flow low. Every time I've told my laptop to turn it off and the Jeep does not light it's yellow light for a few days. Then it turns the light on and I tell the computer to turn it off. It's a nuisance, but that's life. I figure if something was badly wrong the light would come right back on.

Hey - doc53 thanks for the good information. I have the CRD repair manual on CD. I'll have to read up on the MAF sensor. You wrote:

As to the diesel fuel issue quality Europe is ahead of the USA and something that is slowly improving. As to your fill up issue and the CEL coming on was coincidence it usually takes as least 2 igntion cycles of a confirmed problem to turn the CEL on and it takes 3 good ignition cycles with no problem re-occuring to turn the CEL out.

Good information - As to the first sentence, it helps confirm my thoughts that the US is falling behind in many areas. Gee Whiz - So we can't even make good diesel fuel any more. We sure are losing our scientific abilities. Next thing you know, the moonshiners will be importing their stills from the Chinese.

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll wait until the light stays on almost steady before bringing it to the dealer. Intermittent problems are difficult to troubleshoot and I don't want to waste their time.

rwalk · April 2010

The problem with the EGR valves are seen throughout the industry and from I read no company has a fix. What nobody talks about is the fuel that we use to power our diesel vehicles today(ULSD diesel fuel). The new ULSD fuels have less BTU content than in past, meaning the fuel does not burn as hot, and the newer engines are more restrictive to reduce NOX gases. American ASTM specs only require a 40 Cetane Number, while Europe requires a 50 Cetane Number and they are moving to a 55 Cetane mandate in a few years. But, what do the Europeans know that we americans don't know, only over 50 percent of the vehicles they drive are diesel. I also know from reading the EPA website that when you increase the Cetane Number in diesel fuel that you actually reduce NOX gases, which means the fuel burns cleaner, which means reduced soot build-up, while getting better fuel economy.

Let me know if anybody has any thoughts!

winter2 · April 2010

A couple of issues here.

1. The 0W-40 oil is used because of it's CF rating, namely very low in ash content. Anything above that, CG, CH, CI, save for CJ rated oils are problematic because they produce more ash when burned. A good number of dealers are going away from Mobil One simply because of issues they have had with the oil. I am using a good quality CJ oil from either Amsoil or Red Line.

2. "Nose blowing" does work. My dealer recommends that I do this frequently. I had the original EGR replaced at about 17K miles and I am now at more than 63K miles without a hiccough. I blow the nose at least three times per week.

3. The U.S. CRDs have different emissions setup from the EU CRDs. Bypassing or blocking the EGR could lead to problems down the road because the engine PCM is looking for flow through the EGR. Flashing the PCM will put the CEL to sleep but flashing the PCM back and forth could lead to data/program corruption and then you need to purchase a new PCM (not cheap).

4. Fuel quality for diesels in the U.S. borders on swill. The cetane is way too low at forty or forty-three cetane. I use significant amounts of cetane improver from Amsoil with good results, namely less soot, less noise and better fuel economy. Diesel fuel in the U.S. needs further refining to remove the aromatic compounds that contribute to particulate formation. Removing these compounds raises the cetane of the fuel but also reduces the amount of energy the fuel contains slightly. The use of biodiesel is controversial at best. My dealer says it is okay to use B5 once in a while but more than that is problematic. The quality of biodiesel is so inconsistent and until that issue is resolved be careful.

5. The use of oiled air filters is now becoming a problem in newer diesels. The tuning is so tight that too much airflow will cause as many issues as too little airflow. Also, improper cleaning and improper oiling (too much) of an oiled filter causes oil to get on the MAF, causing more issues. Chrysler is now not recommending oiled air filters for their Cummins powered trucks.

weeze1 · April 2010

I have a 2005 Liberty Diesel I bought the car in 2007 had the egr valve replaced because of yellow engine light. NowI had to have it replaced this month again. I drove the vehicle about 20 miles and it shut off I tried to start it back and it caught on fire, this was the day it came back from the shop. Has any one heard of this happening? The dealership said it was no fault of theirs but the fire was at the fuel water filter where they had been working.

biodieselman · September 2010

The last time I went to the Jeep dealer for a filter the price was a whopping $100 plus. I asked why and he showed me the box. It came with the filter/heater housing. It seems there was a problem with air in the fuel collecting at the heater housing. If too much air accumulated, the heater got hot enough to ignite what ever amount of fuel was present. Chrysler issued the new filter/heater housing to all its dealers for replacement when the filter was due. It is still important to bleed the air from that housing. After a filter replacement it should be bled at least twice. Once before startup, and again after a few minutes of running. There is no fuel pump to push fuel from the tank to the engine so if air gets in the lines, it tends to stretch out the air bubble instead of moving it through.

If you have needed two EGR replaced that close together it indicates the dealer didn't use the new stainless one. Mine was replaced at about 12K and it still has the same one at 95,000.

cornalius · October 2010

Hello everyone,just purchase my wife a 2006 jeep crd with 47ooo k's beautiful little suv,after reading the horror story about the egr valve ,now I have second thoughts about this purchase, is it a problem with all jeep liberty crd or just some small% of this vehicles,dearly hope that I'm not stuck with a piece of junk?Thanks for listening.

willysjeep · December 2010

is it a problem with all jeep liberty crd or just some small% of this vehicles,dearly hope that I'm not stuck with a piece of junk?Thanks for listening.

I haven't had any problems with the yellow light coming on since last Spring during the last of the really cold weather. I believe there is some sort of temperature sensor that gets fouled up in Winter. I've noted no difference in the performance of the vehicle when the yellow light comes on. I simply hook up the computer, verify that it is the EGR problem and reset the yellow light.

Now - That it is December I expect that the EGR will be telling the yellow light to come on again. I haven't given it much thought over the past few months. I guess it's a seasonal thing like the geese flying South for the Winter. I've had the car since 2005 when I bought it new. I won't say it has been as trouble free as my Dakota was, but it's been "run of the mill."

caribou1 · December 2010

Hi willysjeep,
I get the 'water in fuel filter' warning light when its freezing cold outside because the fuel heater element (located in the transparent bowl) shares the same warning light

You may perhaps get the yellow light for the same reason.
I found this info somewhere on the net and inspected my fuel filter bowl several times before accepting the misleading information

theavatar · December 2010

i'm the second owner of a CRD, the first owner had the egr replaced about 4 times. the last service manual said, it was the new anti clogging one. I haven't had an issue at 88k.

I did have to replace the torque converter; I went with and aftermarket and a shift kit.

Recently had the PCM reflashed with all the current settings.

researched and tried PCM tunes. Lot's of debate in the diesel community about these. I will go with stock, since i don't need the extra horsepower. And these tunes "can" put stress on your engine.

anyone have to replace their turbo?

turbodude · May 2011

My wife's 2005 has EGR problems, I drive a modified Dodge CTD, what did you make the block off plate out of? Did you require gaskets?
Thanks, Rick

donrr · May 2011

05 CRD has been a dream to own, operate, maneuver through L.A. nightmare traffic, and good milage helps too (i get 28ish, wife gets24ish mpg). only prob was a bown intercooler duct line, easy fix. enjoy!!!

turbodude · May 2011

Yes the boots from factory fall off. I plan to replace hers with silicone like I have on my truck, and I push 55=60psi. My boots now have over 100,000 miles on them

iee1mk · October 2011

My 05 CRD recently started puffing black smoke on acceleration. About a week before that started happening, the CEL came on and has been lit ever since. I did the ignition cycle and no codes displayed; then went to AutoZone where they tested with a code reader, and again no codes. Reading some of the posts, I tried a hard acceleration, foot to the floor to 90 mph leaving a trail of smoke behind me, and tried running at a little above 2,500 rpm for several miles. Neither helped the smoke issue. I cleaned the MAP, and again no change. Then I unplugged the MAF for a day, and no more smoke. Plugged the MAF back in and the smoke returned. Otherwise, it is running like a top. Just went on a short road trip this week of about 300 miles and averaged 29.4 mpg. Any suggestions?

CRD_Bullydog · October 2011

Dear Black Smoke

I guess you should check the vacuum solenoid valve to see if it burned out.
It is located on the passenger side back of the engine compartment and has small and medium vacuum hoses connected to it as well and a two terminal control wire. I you were to unplug the valve and test it (across the plug prongs in the wire socket, not the wire) with an ohm meter, the switch should read 29 - 30 ohms. If you get 0 Ohms it is burn't out.

The significance of this valve is that it controls the wastegate of the turbo. If it is burn't out you get almost no boost from the turbo (which can cause black smoke and loss of power).

The next most common cause of the smoke is the hose being split from the turbo to the inter-cooler or the other hose split from the inter-cooler to the intake. Check them or have them checked (generous amounts of oily soot if broken). These hoses are ~$50 each. Depends how where you buy them. Should be replaced with OEM parts or reinforced hose composed of silacone.

Finally, black smoke can be caused by a stuck EGR vale. This can be un-stuck by dis-connecting the wire from the MAF sensor (located on top of the air cleaner / air filter box ). Pull/sideout the red tab and jiggle plug left/right while pulling straight out. Drive vehicle after warm for about ten to fifteen miles with some accelerations. If smoke goes away then it is a bad/stuck EGR valve. This is the cheapest fix (un-plugging) but it does turn on a CEL and DTC. If this is the problem, a SERG device (simulated E G R device) can be found on Internet sites. Purchase one SEGR and install it. It replaces the signals generated by the EGR valve and leave the EGR Valve in the open (non functioning position) which actually does no harm to the engine or emissions (!@#$ the EPA). SEGR is about $249 and replacing an EGR Valve is about $750 with labor.

Some people have replace EGR Valve several times because of horrible fuel or the crankcase being over filled with cheap oil. Crud migrates to the EGR Valve. Leaving the EGR Value open and letting crud burn in the catalytic converter does work very well.

Luck with the findings/fixes

iee1mk · November 2011

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. One of the booster hoses was very sooty and oily, so I replaced both with silicone hoses. That didn't help, so I finally took it to my dealer. They replaced the EGR valve and that took care of the problem. However, I did try to running without the MAF sensor before taking it in and it continued to blow black smoke. So when they said it needed an EGR valve I was a bit leery, but as usual they were right. Although I live in a city, I take it back to the small town dealer where I bought it. They sell and service a lot of diesel trucks to farmers and such, so they understand the CRDs and have so far been 100% correct on every recommendation.

Thanks much for your help.

willysjeep · December 2011

Back about entry #110, I noted that the yellow light comes on indicating a bad EGR valve. It's been fairly warm so far this Winter Season. We had one patch of cold weather. At that time i had to let the Jeep sit overnight in the cold. It started OK, but sure enough - there was the yellow light. I didn't get to checking it for a few days. In that time, the weather had warmed up. I looked down and the yellow light was out.

Below zero weather may "fool" the computer into thinking it has a bad EGR valve. I expect I'll get it a few more times before the Winter is out.

Happy New Year!

willysjeep · November 2012

A year has almost rolled by. I've been plugging my Jeep in every night and not getting the P0401 code for the EGR solenoid valve. I was visiting family for Thanksgiving a few days ago. My Jeep was not plugged in. Sure enough, the yellow check engine light is there and I'm quite sure I'll see the P0401 code when I plug in the computer. I found a fairly good explanation as to how this thing works on the Lost Jeep forum. Hopefully, I can figure out how to disable it without the yellow light being on. The Jeep is now out of warranty since it is over 7 years and 70,000 miles since I bought it. Brief reading on the Lost Jeep forum says that current is sensed to the solenoid. Maybe, it's simple enough to fool the computer with a resistor, but probably not. If anyone knows please let me know. I check here from time to time,.......AND,.......if I find out an explanation of what to do shall be written in clear English.
:confuse:

willysjeep · January 2013

I have a P0401 - EGR valcve, P01250 - a solenoid valve and P0299, loss of power. I checked the solenoid valve with an ohmmeter. It is fine. I've had it with the EGR when my finances improve, I am dumping this vehicle. It was poorly designed. I've kept this lemon since 2005. Time to dump her. :lemon:

turbodude · January 2013

All i did was unplug sensor which turns
It on and off on air cleaner horn
This disables it
I also took breather from
Top of sir cleaner that feeds turbo do it gets
Nice dirty oil!
I ran to the ground
Mpg up 2+

willysjeep · February 2013

Disabling the temperature sensor on the air cleaner may defeat the EGR, but does the check engine light still come on when you do this. I guess it's easy enough to try.

"I also took breather from
Top of sir cleaner that feeds turbo do it gets
Nice dirty oil!"

This was written like a real mechanic. I'll need to study the turbo hosing to fully understand this statement. I'm not sure if "turbo do" is an acronym for something or if something is to to be done, i.e. "do"

turbodude · February 2013

Yes check engine light will be on
You can either put a piece of tape if it bothers
You or send wcmmout for reprogram
I used to be a mechanic and own several
Diesels
I ran hose all the way down and curved
Towards ground
Just replaced old ceramic GLO plugs
With new style metal

willysjeep · February 2013

I had to have the glow plugs replaced too. I should reroute the hose to reroute the gunk.

It's a dumb design when you have to modify the car not for performance enhancement, but just so that it runs right.

turbodude · February 2013

Yes it's forbemmission
If they don't test the car in your area
You can do things to get near 30+mpg
But trans needs modification
I have broken more than once!!

willysjeep · February 2013

I got close to 30 mpg when the vehicle was newer. If I don't dump the thing, I may explore some of those options. I basically just want a vehicle easy to take care of that I don't have to mess with much.

However, I kept the last one 12 years and it is expensive to change vehicles. I don't need much just something to haul a trailer, get me from point A to point B, is reliable and cheap to operate.

willysjeep · March 2013

It got warm yesterday (low 30s). I removed my MAP sensor. Gosh what a lot of crud. I now understand the "nose blowing." It blows the crud out. This crud comes from the EGR. The EGR is a crud recycler. What's that crud do to my engine? No wonder the oil is so dirty. What a stupid design!

I couldn't get the sensor off earlier when it was colder. It seemed to be stuck. Dumb place buried under that miniature wireway. For an item that needs to be cleaned regularly, the location is not well engineered.

Post after post tells me to unplug my MAF sensor on the sir cleaner. This is supposed to disable the EGR. I have been getting the yellow light this Winter anyway so I unplugged it. I'm going to drive her like this for a while.

I'll probably be dumping this little Jeep soon, but if I don't Green Diesel will be getting a new customer. I wish I would have understood how counterproductive this EGR was a few thousand miles back. I've probably already knocked many thousands of miles from the engine life.

Those of us who are not car people get punished in strange obscene ways. This EGR thing is one of them. :lemon:

willysjeep · March 2013

As noted immediately above, I removed the connector to the MAF. I received all the yellow lite codes as before with one change. Instead of P0401, EGR valve I now get P1102 which upon looking for on the web I found MAF flow. This makes sense since it is unplugged. The car drove about the same. It may have been a tad more zippy, but that may have been my imagination.

I think it is an improvement not to have crud injection. :confuse:

winter2 · March 2013

That little sensor if not properly maintained can cause a ton of headaches. When I had my CRD, I cleaned it every 5000 miles using a mild solvent to remove the accumulated goo. The engine actually ran better after the cleaning plus it saved the hoses from being over pressured. The other thing to clean, if you have not done so, is the MAF sensor. Two screws and out it comes. Use a cleaner specifically for MAF sensors. Do not use anything else. I cleaned the MAF sensor on my CRD a couple of times and the performance improvement was noticeable. I also used a K&N air filter and that did not give me any problems.

The issue with the EGR is where it gets the exhaust gas. Unfortunately, the CRD did not have a DPF. If it had had one tand if the engineers were smart, then they would have pulled the exhaust gases for EGR after the DPF thus eliminating the soot contamination issue altogether.

willysjeep · March 2013

I cleaned the MAP with PB Blaster and a sewing needle. It worked.

I had my MAF sensor out previously. I think it is just an array of RTDs. It is unplugged now. I checked my boost solenoid valve with an ohm meter. It showed open. I had voltage on the wiring to the solenoid when I turned the key on so this sure looks like the cause for my P0299 and P1250 CEL codes. This matches what I've read on the LOST forum. I thought I had checked this previously and had the proper resistance, but it was below zero in the garage when I did the check and may not have read my meter properly.

P0299 - low turbo boost

P1250 - boost solenoid valve bad.

The LOST website has directions as to how to bypass this solenoid valve or I can just drive it until I get another.

When it warms up a bit more, I guess I will be looking at changing the EGR valve since it has only been changed once and is probably crudded up. Then I may do the GDR if I don't dump the little diesel. It's such an odd beast in the USA that it may not pay to hang on to it.

winter2 · March 2013

I had the EGR changed once when the F37 recall was going on. Never had a problem with the replacement. I was told the new EGR valve was modified to be more tolerant of soot and crud. Still did the "nose blowing".

I never ran the CRD with anything disconnected, I just kept the sensors that I could get to squeaky clean. The tech at the dealer where I purchased the CRD passed on this information to me at regular intervals.

The CRD was an odd beast. I do not think that the engineers did a good job of thinking everything through nor did they do adequate testing. Had things been thoroughly thought through and thoroughly tested, the Liberty CRD would have been a good vehicle.

bassetslave · March 2013

What was the F37 recall?

what year is your CRD and when was the recall ?

willysjeep · March 2013

WInter2 - Thanks for your support.

I got the text from LOST. I probably had this done too:

Here is the text:

CUSTOMER SATISFACTION NOTIFICATION F37
REPLACE TORQUE CONVERTER AND REPROGRAM THE ECM AND TCM
Dear: (Name)
Customer satisfaction is very important to DaimlerChrysler. Accordingly, we are recommending the following service on some 2005 and 2006 model year Jeep® Liberty vehicles equipped with a 2.8l diesel engine and an automatic transmission.
The problem is...
The transmission torque converter on your vehicle (VIN: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) may fail. This can cause a rattling sound in the neutral or park positions and/or illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Lamp. Continued operation can result in transmission damage.
What your dealer will do...
DaimlerChrysler will repair your vehicle free of charge (parts and labor). To do this, your dealer will replace the torque converter and reprogram the engine and transmission control modules. The repair involves a small reduction in engine torque to enhance torque converter and transmission durability. The work will take about 5½ hours to complete. If testing indicates the transmission has been damaged, another hour will be required. However, additional time may be necessary depending on how dealer appointments are scheduled and processed.
What you must do...
Simply contact your dealer right away to schedule a service appointment. Ask the dealer to hold the part for your vehicle or to order it before your appointment. Remember to bring this letter with you to your dealer.
If you need help...
If you have questions or concerns which your dealer is unable to resolve, please contact DaimlerChrysler at 1-800-853-1403.
Please help us update our records, by filling out the attached prepaid postcard, if any of the conditions listed on the card apply to you or your vehicle.
If you have already experienced this problem and have paid to have it repaired, you may send your original receipts and/or other adequate proof of payment to the following address for reimbursement: DaimlerChrysler P.O. Box 4639 Oak Ridge, TN 37831, Attention: Reimbursement.
We're sorry for any inconvenience, but we believe that this service will help to ensure your continuing satisfaction with your vehicle. Thank you for your attention to this important matter.
Customer Services Field Operations
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Notification Code F37

It kinda agrees with Winter's statement that they didn't get the bugs out of this vehicle before putting it on the market.

I'm going to see about getting a replacement solenoid valve today. I'll have to bring it in to the dealer to show them the part, or I'll get the deer in the headlights look from them. It will take me 15 minutes to replace and should fix P0299 and P1250. Note: I have the manual for the KJ. I found no mention of this solenoid valve in there. I think it was an afterthought by the engineers.

willysjeep · March 2013

I went to the dealer to get a new solenoid valve. I unplugged it to bring it in with me to assure I had the right part. Oddly enough, it was warm. Hmmmm, that told me. It must have had current through it. I plugged her back in and plugged in my MAF. I started up the Jeep and the yellow light was out. It's been on every time I've started it for months with P0401, P0299 and P1250. Well, it may be intermittent. I still have the tubing bypassing it. The car sounds different and is more zippy. My turbocharger is back.

I've had a run of really bad luck lately. Maybe, this is a sign that things will be better.

Spring is here and times are good.

skkane1949 · March 2013

I have a 2005 Liberty CRD and would like to get more info on service and repair. I defintely need to do what these post are talking about but would like some drawings and etc.

turbodude · March 2013

A good investment is the factory
Service manual
Keep up with regular maintenance
As it is critical
IE: fuel filter, oil and filter etc
Mine is running strong at 140,000
Miles it's my wife's car
I have a 2002 Dodge Cummins which
Is highly modified
Rick

12m34 · March 2013

Last year around this time, my 06 Diesel tranny completely trashed, plenum and all, my dealership made several consessions and replaced it all for $2,700, more that half the realistic cost. But, this was right at 101,000miles. This F37 code never came on, had trans serviced regular but D/C would not cover, said Im on my own. Maybe now should send in dealer repair order for total reimbursment?

winter2 · March 2013

The F37 is not a code but a recall. Chrysler should have sent you a recall notice.

willysjeep · March 2013

See post #145 for details of F37. (I don't think it has anything to do with an EGR valve.) :surprise:

winter2 · March 2013

The F37 recall dealt with detuning (mostly torque reduction) the engine and replacing the torque converter and the front pump in the transmission. The EGR valve is a separate issue.

turbodude · March 2013

I blew my transmission up out of warranty
Engines are detuned as trans can't handle
Torque
ATS makes a multi disk converter and better
Clutches etc so you can put engine where
It belongs. The shop that built my truck
Trans charged me $1500.00 for my wife's
CRD including a better torque converter

willysjeep · April 2013

This EGR thing is to reduce Nitrous Oxide. This is from Wikepedia:

"By feeding the lower oxygen exhaust gas into the intake, diesel EGR systems lower combustion temperature, reducing emissions of NOx. This makes combustion less efficient, compromising economy and power. The normally "dry" intake system of a diesel engine is now subject to fouling from soot, unburned fuel and oil in the EGR bleed, which has little effect on airflow but can cause problems with components such as swirl flaps, where fitted. Diesel EGR also increases soot production, though this was masked in the US by the simultaneous introduction of diesel particulate filters.[6] EGR systems can also add abrasive contaminants and increase engine oil acidity, which in turn can reduce engine longevity.[7]

Though engine manufacturers have refused to release details of the effect of EGR on fuel economy, the EPA regulations of 2002 that led to the introduction of cooled EGR were associated with a 3% drop in engine efficiency, bucking a trend of a .5% a year increase."[8]

The new Chevy Cruze diesel has a urea tank. This is from the dieselhub site.

"Urea or DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) injection is a key component of the SCR (selective catalyst reduction) emissions system for the 6.7L Power Stroke & 6.6L Duramax. SCR is one way that manufacturers are combating diesel emissions in order to meet/exceed current regulations. SCR is a system that reduces NOx (nitrous oxide) emissions by injecting diesel exhaust fluid into the exhaust stream. DEF, also referred to as "reductant", is a solution of 32.5% urea and 67.5% water. Its moderate urea content is where it gets the slang term "urea injection". DEF is injected via a dosing module (injector) into the SCR portion of the exhaust. It is atomized with the exhaust stream by means of a mixer, which resembles an auger welded inside a small section of exhaust pipe. The heat of the exhaust causes urea to split into carbon dioxide and ammonia. Exhaust then travels through a ceramic catalyst where the reduction reaction occurs, converting ammonia and NOx into nitrogen gas (N2) and water" (H2O).

Is the urea thing a better way to go than the EGR? It seems like it would be better for your engine. It also seems like it would be a pain to have to fill a urea tank as well as a fuel tank. There would be extra cost for this consumable item. If this is required in future diesels, this could be a big drawback. :lemon:

willysjeep · October 2013

Well, I didn't get the green diesel tune or the electronic gadget that fools the engine into thinking the EGR is happy while continuously closed. I did get a little orange reader that allows me to pull off the side of the road and reset the yellow light whenever it comes on. I get some satisfaction from turning the durn thing off. The Jeep has over 100,000 miles on it now.

I'm still looking for that magic bullet to fix the EGR.

Jeep Liberty Diesel EGR Problems

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