2008-2009 Chevrolet Malibu

jnt · January 2007

Actually, on GM press release, both I4 and V6 are coupled with their newest 6 speed Auto. Both are OHC engines. So spec-wise, the new Malibu is equipped well mechanically. The only drawback is it is still based on the old narrow body Epsilon platform (2-3 inches narrower than competitors).

jt

mr_bots · January 2007

I belive the 6 speed only comes on the LTZ 4 banger and all V6s. LS and LT 4 cylinders are still supposed to use the 4 speed.

1487 · January 2007

You are right the Accord and Camry do have 5 speeds, but the Malibu offers a 6 speed on both engines. The Camry has 6 speed with V6 only and the Accord doesn't even ahve one available.

I am pretty sure this car does have LED rear lights. Check the press release again. Not that this feature is a big deal to most car buyers.

1487 · January 2007

a few more things, the "high tech" Accord costs $27k without navigation and has 17" wheels (no 18s), no split folding rear seat, no remote start, no six speed auto, no Onstar, no manumatic, no uplevel sound system, no panoramic roof and I believe it lacks a trip computer as well. I don't even know if it has an MP3 jack.

The Altima has a CVT but its mileage is barely better than the Aura/G6 and its worse than the Camry. It only gets 28 on the hwy which is exceded by several V6 cars in this class with conventional automatics. Under the new EPA rules the Altima's mileage is likely to be about the same as the Malibu V6.

brianma · January 2007

With the pace of change in the auto industry, it's always easy to find things missing on 2-3 year old designs like the Accord. I will disagree with the people saying the Sonata is such a great value. Look at total cost of ownership compared to initial investment and the Sonata doesn't look so good. How about $250 for front brakes and $275 for rears? That's the price you pay as you can't turn the rotors on the newer Sonata. OEM tires that you'll get 25K miles out of and are a unique size (per the Tire Rack) that will cost you about $40 more per tire than the Malibu/Accord/Camry when it comes to replacement time. As far as how many gears in the auto transmission, it's more the ratios that matter as I have a 5 speed in my wife's Audi Allroad and the mileage stinks as 5th gear has too high rpm's for highway cruising. The 4 cylinder Accord also suffers from this as they used a higher final drive ratio to increase power across the gears. And don't get me started about the Nissan CVT. Try driving one on a long highway trip or ten and the constant whine will drive you nuts. Sure these are all nit picky little things, but my point is that every car will have a few if you look hard enough. I look forward to the new Malibu - i just wish a Maxx type option was still in the cards.

mrdisco33 · January 2007

with regards to the LED tail lamps, when i read the press release i got the impression this was a feature on the ltz model leaving the majority of buyers to make do with a regular bulb.

mrdisco33 · January 2007

The Accord is an old design. Lets wait and see how the new one stacks up for a fair comparison. (fyi the current model does not have an AUX jack).

bxd · January 2007

I think most of these people who keep bringing up 4 speed automatics don't even understand the benefits of 5 or 6 gears over 4. If you do understand them, I'm not directing this at you, you can skip the rest of my post.

A 5/6 will NOT automatically get you better gas mileage than a 4. Gears are spread apart at certain ratios, and where the manufacturer chooses to place the gear will dictate how much performance or economy the car has. With the outgoing 4T-60(E) four speed transmissions (transaxles really) GM was using, they had a nice low first gear. Coupled with the torquey OHV V6s they were coupled to, that gave strong off the line acceleration. Then what happened was 2nd and 3rd were spaced kinda wide apart. The result was a loss in pep at medium speeds. Either you kept your foot in it and the engine revved extremely high, or you were gentler with the throttle and the transmission took the higher gear and you didn't accelerate hard. When you got to 4th gear, around 40-45, the torque converter locked up and the final drive ratio was VERY economical! This is why most V6/4 speeds from GM used to get outstanding gas mileage on the freeway. Many many people have written about how their 4 speeds with 2.8/3.1/3.4/3.8 get well over 30 mpg on the highway.

The negatives of doing this spacing is that the car felt soft in the middle speeds, as I mentioned above.

I cannot think of a single car that would turn lower engine RPMs on the highway than GM's OHV V6s with four speeds, especially the ones through the 90s (because I hear they just revised the ratios very recently). So when GM starts bringing out these 6 speeds, it is unlikely that 6th will be any taller than 4th used to be a while back.

There will be mild economy gains in the middle speeds, but nothing extreme.

All this to say, the primary benefit of a 6 speed is performance, having a wide choice of ratios available at any given speed. Put your foot slightly in it, you downshift slightly, and the car zips ahead. You gain a lot of pep.

Economy will be a secondary gain, unless they shorten the final drive ratio as most imports and Ford have traditionally done. Then they may even loose that benefit. (One of my cars is a Ford with a 5 speed and at 70mph the engine is doing around 3100rpm on the highway. Contrast that to a typical GM 4 speed that would be around 1800-2000rpm.)

robbieg · January 2007

I don't think 2007 V6 Accords are selling for 27,000, I think they are selling for closer to 25,000. The 2008 Accord will in all likelyhood sell for close to its sticker.

1487 · January 2007

I know that, I'm just referencing the MSRP. No GM model is selling for MSRP either so I dont see your point. The current Malibu SS which offers the same amount of HP as the Accord V-6 is far cheaper in terms of MSRP and of course actual transaction prices. BOttom line is the price gap between the Accord and a comparable domestic sedan/Sonata is likely to stay relatively constant even if you take transaction prices into account.

1487 · January 2007

You are right, the LTZ gets LED lights and yet I dont see your point. Most cars in this class do not have LED lights. I dont even think the Camry has them and yet you arent accusing the Camry of cost cutting.

As for the Accord being old, I am aware of that but people on this forum (and magazines like C&D) claim the accord is still the benchmark so I am comparing the Malibu to this supposed Benchmark. For the Record I think the Altima, Camry, Aura and Fusion are superior to the Accord and they are on sale now. The 2008 Accord will likely be impressive and its price tag will be impressive as well. It will probably offer things not found on the malibu like nav and bluetooth, but those features will come at a price. Personally, I think $30k for an accord is too high when a TL starts at $33k.

pao · January 2007

building a V-6 on Honda site....enter level V-6 is 24K and high end is 29K.....add a few basic options to the entry level and I got 25K....the high end is fully loaded to include Nav.....

1487 · January 2007

For the most part you cant add options to Hondas. You select a model and you take what Honda decides is best. The only option for the EX-V6 is navigation. It's $27k without nav and $29k with nav.

bxd · January 2007

$29,995 with destination.

sazmitty312 · January 2007

i simply think that the exterior is really ugly. i simply like the Saturn Aura better not to mention the all-new Camry and Altima(altima is the best out of them all)! i kinda like the two-tone interior.

1487 · January 2007

Most people disagree. I cant see how you find this car ugly in relation to others in this segment. None of them would be mistaken for a Ferrari but overall the Malibu is sharp. The Altima looks good but its almost the same as the previous model. The Camry is decent, but no better than the Malibu and the largest wheels you can get on the XLE are puny 16s.

cooterbfd · January 2007

AMEN!!!!

My '99 Pk Av Ultra revs at about 1350 rpm @ 45 mph. I believe that the reasons you stated (OHV V-6 engines) are why the 4-speed is being kept around, because they WORK WELL TOGETHER!!! As I remember it,25-30 yrs. ago when gm came out w/ its 4 speed autos., no one else had them (somebody educate me otherwise, please?) the old 200r4 and 700r4, they got raked over the coals for not being all that reliable (compared w/ the old 400TH, which was bulletproof). Now I see people complaining about engine surge in 5-sp Camrys, trannies "hunting" for the right gear on Avalons, and a "whine" w/ the cvt. Maybe it's a good thing if GM releases this slowly.

robbieg · January 2007

Who pays sticker for a model that has been around for 5 years? $24995 buy it now price on ebay for a V6L. Sorry for some reason I couldn't post a link. Also, check out the prices paid section on this site. No one is paying that much for an Accord with the new model due next year.

With regard to Malibu pricing, I think GM has to bring it in significantly uder the Honda price. The public puts a premium on anything Honda or Toyota. I am not saying I agree with this but it is just my opinion. The key is to figure out what the premium is. My guess is it is between $5000 and $6000.

walterquint · January 2007

I should clarify my prior post: I wasn't knocking the GM 4sp auto. In fact, it's a superb slushbox. The 4sp auto has been matched with the Ecotec and the 3.8L, with admirable and bulletproof results......but GM must remain competitive, with cutting-edge products. A 5sp auto shows that the co. is moving forward. Customers don't "need" the 5sp auto, but they do want it. Upgrading the base tranny might make the difference between the Malibu remaining as a rental car, or becoming a truly desirable automobile that excites one's passions.

beedublu · January 2007

But the only actual innovative thing that the current Malibu has is the MAXX - I hope they continue a version of that hatchback/wagon on the new platform - THAT WOULD BE SWEET!

I agree. I'm still enjoying my 04 Maxx, even though it's not the best looking car I've ever owned. Now if they could take this 08 body and make an unobtrusive hatch, the way Mazda does with the Mazda6, yes that would be really sweet.

tncarman · January 2007

Hate to break it to you, but from what i recall i remember an article sayin ghow the Maxx wouldnt be returning. This was when the first spy shots came out.

1487 · January 2007

I think we all understand that no one is paying sticker for the Accord, but no one pays sticker for a GM midsize sedan either so it's really a wash. You are not being realistic if you think the Malibu will be $5000 cheaper than a comparable Accord. I agree it needs to be cheaper, but GM cant price this thing as if it's Korean or something. This is a decent car and as such it wont be dirt cheap. If you look at the value offered by the Aura vs the Camry I think you will get an idea of how the Malibu will be priced. I would expect $2k-$3k differences between the Malibu and comparable Altima/Accord/Camry.

mrdisco33 · January 2007

That exactly is my point. You say most cars in this class don't offer them which is why Chevy should have made it standard equipment (as an aside the Aura does as does the Accord; why couldn't the Malibu?).
If this were the Camry discussion group I would have said the exact same thing - why offer LEDs on the hybrid and XLE models and cheap out for their bread and butter customers.

edit: also where are the knee airbags as offered in the Camry? Since all the car makers can make a basic car fairly similar, its the extra features which 'leap frog' the competition that helps separate it from the pack. This was a new design and it loses the 'airbag race'

I posted news of the Malibu on another site and the reaction was typical of the general public - those who are CamCord buyers were not impressed/uninterested, while those who still hang onto domestics had some enthusiasm. We all agreed that the rear tail lights was just plain awful.

1487 · January 2007

Import lovers arent going to be impressed by anything that isnt a Toyota or Honda, get real. I always love how import supporters like you feel it's necessary to classify anyone who might consider a domestic car as uninformed or less savvy that import buyers. Not everyone who isnt driving Toyota is determined "hang onto domestics" just to be patriotic or whatever. Import fanatics are typically believers in double standards and I see that you are continuing that trend. You are saying that the Malibu is an also ran because it doesnt offer features that most of its Asian competition doesnt offer. In other words you want it to offer Lexus features, BMW performance and great styling and do all that for $5k less than an Accord. I for one don't think that is realistic. Why dont you check out some of the reaction to the Malibu amongst the media, including edmunds, and see what the general consensus is on the Malibu. Your assertion that no one other than ignorant, die hard, flag waving, domestic car buying morons think the car is worth something is way off base. Do you honestly think long time Honda/Toyota buyers would ever acknowledge that any Chevy/Ford/Chrysler vehicles may be woth buying? I don't. It really doesnt matter how good or bad the car may be.

vanman1 · January 2007

So far from what I have seen, this new Malibu is exactly what Chevy needs. Too bad it didn't come 2-3 years ago.

I will very seriously look at this car later this year or next. Nice to see Chevy is finally putting some nice cars on the market.

csandste · January 2007

I think most of us with Maxx's know it's a lost cause but would still like to see one. Chevy completely ignored marketing the Maxx.

Another thing I'll miss is the 3.5 ohv engine. Consistantly get 30-32 in highway driving along with 7K oil changes. Big comedown in mpg (and I bet higher maintenance) in the newer models. I'd probably get the four if I re-buy.

Just bought a Kia Optima with leather for my wife which cost the same (16K) as my Maxx. The Kia handles better (of course it has 50 series Michelins and hydraulic steering).

Most of the reasons why I'm so happy with my Maxx: the flexibility of having a big hatch, the low maintenance costs and the excellent mpg with a six (as good as a Kia four) will be gone with the new platform.

It does look nicer than the 04+ model but so do a lot of different cars.

sazmitty312 · January 2007

i still didn't like it because the front looks like a freshened cobalt! and the back looks like the dead mitsubishi diamante or something! and if you look the side view...it's kinda awkward! BUT! i love the interior...i think it's one of the best of all the american midsize cars. plus, the upcoming accord is just gonna send not only GM, but toyota and nissan back to their drawing board...i can say that because i have seen some sketches like the ones on motortrend.com and vtec.net-from some japanese magazines-(2-3 months ago)and the one on their site (automobiles.honda.com) shows a clean-bold-sexy look! the accord is also, always a segment leader in the midsize-segment in terms of performance, fuel-efficiency, and the always RELIABILITY and I can prove that by the comparison tests on edmunds.com after its redisigns...it has always been awarded #1 or #2

1487 · January 2007

WHat do you know about the '08 Accord? I am tired of people trying to down the Malibu and other cars based on a car we know nothing about. The 2003 Accord didnt send anyone back to the drawing board when it came out. Do you realize how good the Camry and Altima are right now? Unless Honda plans to sell us a rebadged TL for thousands less I don't see any way the Accord will be heads and shoulders above the competition. Look at the CR-V for an example of how modestly Honda approaches redesigns. The CR-V brekas absolutely no new ground in the small crossover segment and doenst even offer a V6 even though the Rav4 matches its mileage with 269hp under the hood. Also, do you really think that Honda is going to launch its most mainstream car with radical looks like those seen in spy sketches? I don't.

"always a segment leader in the midsize-segment in terms of performance, fuel-efficiency, and the always RELIABILITY"

The Accord isnt the fastest in this class, its not the largest,, its not the best handling, the most efficient, nor is it the best looking. Even magazines that love the car acknowledge its styling isnt compelling.

mrdisco33 · January 2007

"Import lovers arent going to be impressed by anything that isnt a Toyota or Honda, get real."

I am 'real'. GM needs a knock-out vehicle if they're going to beat CamCords. That is a simple fact. Customers who are repeat CamCord buyers have very little incentive to look elsewhere and why should they? Their cars have proven reliability, dependability, and above average resale value. You cannot say the same about GM mid-sized sedans at this point in time. Maybe the Epsilon cars will prove to be just as good down the road, but right now consumers can only look at past history and hedge their bets with the imports.

It's very funny you should label me as an "import lover". No I happen to be a realist and someone who looks closely at all makes and models before dropping a significant amount of cash on a car purchase. I've owned nothing but domestics, but my current GM has left a VERY bad taste in my mouth (having a design flaw in the 3.8L engine tends to do that to a person). Despite the *stack* of repair bills I'm still rational enough to look at the current models and judge it on its merits. I drove the Aura and was pretty impressed, but not enough that I would take if over a Camry. Maybe the new Malibu will win me over when it arrives.

"You are saying that the Malibu is an also ran because it doesnt offer features that most of its Asian competition doesnt offer. In other words you want it to offer Lexus features, BMW performance and great styling and do all that for $5k less than an Accord."

Well if we're going to use personal shots and gross inaccurate statements, then what is it about domestic lovers who are so myopic that they can't get past the fact that the GM of the 80s and 90s produced a lot of bad cars and thats a reputation that they have to get rid of? Rather than put words in my mouth, here's what I am saying:
They need to offer slightly more features and/or innovations than the imports, at a slightly lower price (no not $5k worth), and above all else build their cars so that 5 years down their road they still run like clockwork. Impossible? Well heck if Hyundai can do it I don't see why GM can't. Hyundai offers a longer warranty, more standard equipment, and build quality which easily matches GM all for a lower price. What good is it being the largest automotive car maker on the planet if you can't use your economies of scale to crush the competition?

"Your assertion that no one other than ignorant, die hard, flag waving, domestic car buying morons think the car is worth something is way off base. "

Totally off-base. Please directly quote me where I said domestic buyers are morons. I find your personal attacks so detrimental for a proper discussion.

"Do you honestly think long time Honda/Toyota buyers would ever acknowledge that any Chevy/Ford/Chrysler vehicles may be woth buying? I don't. It really doesnt matter how good or bad the car may be."

And here we come to the heart of the matter. If GM is going to survive they need to win over these customers. Why else would they consider the Malibu one of the most important launches in their history? If they're not winning over long time import buyers then all they're doing is chasing after their (dwindling) customer base. Remind me again, how close is Toyota coming to knocking off GM as the #1 car maker?

beedublu · January 2007

Yeah, I had heard this quite a while back. But on the outside chance (WAY outside) that anyone from GM pays attention to what gets written all over the web, they might reconsider dropping the Maxx. (Right!) It seems like there are more and more of them on the road.

Oh, well, maybe my next vehicle will be a Mazda6 hatchback after all.

csandste · January 2007

in a couple of years I'd probably buy a used Maxx replacement. Other option would be to buy a Kia Rondo. I found that to be a very airy open vehicle. The Mazda 3/6 hatches/wagon were also on my short list when I bought the Maxx.

Maybe Saturn will bring in a new Astra/Signum hatch or wagon.

1487 · January 2007

Listen, I feel sorry for you in terms of the problems with your car. That said you have to be smart enough to know that the overwhelming majority of GM vehicles run a lot longer than 5 years without incident. My parents have a 3.8L equipped Intrigue that is almost 9 years old and runs just fine. The fact that you had problems with your car doesn't mean that GM as a whole is incapable of building reliable vehicles. I can fully understand going with a Camry after having problems with a GM vehicle. Go ahead and do that but do not act like there is some magic formula that could make you forget about your bad experience and run down to your Chevy dealer. Other than lacking nav the Malibu is on point and as I said it will be cheaper than the import competition. what else can Chevy do? Contrary to what you are stating the MAJORITY of car buyers do not drive imports and they will consider domestic products. I dont know why people like you cant accept that many people have no intentions of ever buying domestic regardless of what JD POwers and others say about improved reliability. Some wont buy domestic because of image, others because of bluetooth, others because they got burned by an American car 30 years ago, etc. Those who worship anything designed and made by foreign companies will find ANY reason to not buy domestic and the actual products produced by Detroit are almost besides the point.

Read up on the Aura, it is getting conquest sales. The same will likely apply for the Lamda vehicles, Malibu and CTS. The newer GM vehicles are good enough to attract SOME import buyers. Yes Toyota is about to pass GM in WORLDWIDE sales, but not US sales. GM sells no cars in Japan which is the 2nd largest auto market so its kind of hard for Toyota not to be #1. Besides, GM is cutting rebates and discounts and fleet sales which is basically ceded #1 to Toyota. Meanwhile Toyota is flooding dealer lots with vans and trucks that people dont want and selling them for $5000 under MSRP. Check your local paper. No wonder Toyota is gaining sales in the US.

mrdisco33 · January 2007

"Listen, I feel sorry for you in terms of the problems with your car. That said you have to be smart enough to know that the overwhelming majority of GM vehicles run a lot longer than 5 years without incident...The fact that you had problems with your car doesn't mean that GM as a whole is incapable of building reliable vehicles"

I've gone through 3 GM vehicles - all had major issues well into their 5 year run. this is not a unique situation. A co-worker of mine has a late model Alero he purchased new. Without exaggeration it is the very definition of a lemon having been in the shop more times then he can count. No this is not unique to GM as it can apply to all manufacturers. The point is whether you look at the stats or not, its the public perception of past performance that GM has to overcome. They have to prove to people they can build the Malibu that can exceed import spec. More importantly, they have to prove to the Average Joe that their Malibu will be just as reliable as their neighbour's Camry and Accord.

"I can fully understand going with a Camry after having problems with a GM vehicle. Go ahead and do that but do not act like there is some magic formula that could make you forget about your bad experience and run down to your Chevy dealer. "

Not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that there is nothing GM can do to win over customers like myself? If so then they may as well pack-in the towel and call it quits.

"Other than lacking nav the Malibu is on point and as I said it will be cheaper than the import competition. what else can Chevy do?"

Chevy could offer a longer bumper to bumper warranty to show they stand behind their product (it should be at least 5 years). Heck if they really want to cause a ripple they could do something like a guarantee where if the same major component fails twice in a 5 year span they will buy back the car. Put their money where there mouth is and give people a reason to trust in the brand again

"Contrary to what you are stating the MAJORITY of car buyers do not drive imports and they will consider domestic products."

And how many car buyers are switching to Toyota when their domestic is traded in? Last month's sales in Ontario showed they were a top gainer and the Camry continues to dominate the sales charts.

"I dont know why people like you cant accept that many people have no intentions of ever buying domestic regardless of what JD POwers and others say about improved reliability."

Awards are a funny thing. They're like stats which can be skewed anyway you want to spin it. Telling me that GM has the best plant in the northern hemisphere is about as funny as saying GM has the plant in my city. They should have the best plan in the world, period. Why break up award categories to such a granular degree? As an aside, an interesting read on awards:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/23/Autos/tipsandadvice/award_meanings/index.htm

"Some wont buy domestic because of image, others because of bluetooth, others because they got burned by an American car 30 years ago, etc. Those who worship anything designed and made by foreign companies will find ANY reason to not buy domestic and the actual products produced by Detroit are almost besides the point."

Well I got burned with a '96, your exaggeration not withstanding. The point again is that the Malibu needs to wow the customer. It's a step in the right direction but frankly this was the car they should have came out with 5 years ago.

"Yes Toyota is about to pass GM in WORLDWIDE sales, but not US sales."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/03/AR2006100301548.- html
Coles notes version: Toyota US sales are closing in on GM when we look at cars. GM is lucky they dominate in Truck/SUV sales. What's totally remarkable about this is that Toyota can do it with just 2 brands (lost count the number of badges GM produces) and with less reliance on fleet sales to pump up the numbers.

"GM sells no cars in Japan which is the 2nd largest auto market so its kind of hard for Toyota not to be #1."

Not true. GM sells cars in Japan - whether their domestic market actually buys the vehicles is another matter. I will agree that there are probably trade and tariff issues in place which hamper GM's ability to compete in the Japanese market.

In short: the Malibu looks good on paper, let's hope the final product can deliver (because yes I do want this model to succeed).

1487 · January 2007

You are missing one major point here. Evry potential car buyer hasnt been burned by GM as you have. You are assuming that anyone in the market today has the same experiences you do and thus has reason to doubt GM. That isnt the case. Many people have owned GM products that have been reliable. What about those people? Others have never had a bad experience with GM but have never owned one because of what others (or CR) have said about american cars. Other had problems with another kind of dometic vehicle and have lumped all American cars together are hesitant to buy a GM product. Those are the types of people who would consider the Malibu.

There are two types who will not buy GM, hardcore import lovers who are completely biased and those like you that have recently been burned by GM. As I said, I dont blame you for wanting a camry. Go ahead and get one.

BTW, Toyota has three brands, not two. GM is cutting fleet sales (already mentioned that) and GM sells more midsize and fullsize cars than Toyota. Toyota sells more luxury cars and small cars. I dont see how that equals Toyota dominating the car market. GM has a much larger lead in trucks than Toyota has in cars. Check the numbers.

"Awards are a funny thing. They're like stats which can be skewed anyway you want to spin it. "

JD Powers surveys are not awards like the MT car of the year. I dont know how you "spin" problems per vehicle but maybe you can explain how that can be done. The vehicles with less problems per vehicle are more relaible, it seems pretty simple. BTW, Toyota and Honda usually place pretty high on JD Power Surveys so I'm wondering if you are questioning the results as they pertain to those two automakers.

BTW, I have an Alero and it has had some problems but 99% of the time it has started up and and got me from A to B. Most of my issues fall under annoyances rather than reliability problems. Now I could go straight to the Japanese but I'm not going to pay $3000 more for a Toyota/Honda just because it "might" be more reliable, especially when I am not crazy about the car's styling. The Alima is nice and it's the one Japanese car I would consider, but $30k for a V6 with leather, Bose and sunroof is outrageous and I wont get a stripped down mode just so I can drive a Nissan.

pao · January 2007

from the AP:

LOS ANGELES -- Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. has quietly settled a class-action lawsuit that covers about 3.5 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles that may have been damaged by engine oil sludge.

Details of the settlement, which allows for third-party mediation of sludge claims rejected by Toyota, have been mailed to 7.5 million current and previous owners.

[B]Critics contend Toyota has told customers and dealers too little about sludge issues. They say some customers took vehicles with dead engines to dealers who had little or no knowledge of the problem and often assumed it was the owners' fault.Unhappy customers had no remedy other than hiring a lawyer to go after Toyota. [/b]

Under the agreement, owners whose claims have been denied by Toyota may submit them to a third-party mediator at no cost for binding arbitration.

"This settlement breathes life into claims that have been dead for years," said Gary Gambel, a lawyer for plaintiffs who sued Toyota. "This is not a settlement that gives a few dollars to everyone. The relief is exactly tied to the problems and damages that someone might have."

About 3.3 million Toyota vehicles are susceptible to oil sludge, which can cause thousands of dollars in damage and require replacement of the engine. Sludge is gelled oil that fails to lubricate engine parts. It can lead to damage, often requiring a new engine at a cost that can exceed $10,000. Complaints about sludged engines have plagued several carmakers, but Toyota's troubles have been especially controversial in light of its reputation for vehicle quality.

The issue highlights a possible chink in the company's armor. Executives fear Toyota is growing too fast for its engineering resources. That could lead to quality snags and a tarnished reputation.

When a customer takes a sludge-caked engine to a dealership, there is usually a "clean-out" procedure. The head is pulled and a service technician tries try to steam out the sludge. If that doesn't work, the engine must be replaced.

Sludge can result from poor engine design; overly tight tolerances between moving parts; improper cooling; and poor maintenance by consumers.

Toyota insists the problem arises mainly when owners fail to change their oil frequently enough.

The agreement does not find Toyota at fault.

Damages that can be recovered include loss in value of the vehicle and incidental costs, such as rental cars. Past lawyers' fees, mental anguish and bodily injuries are not covered.

A Toyota spokesman said the agreement is not a defeat for the automaker.

"The settlement validates the customer support program we implemented four years ago," Xavier Dominicis said.

"The terms of the program remain unchanged. There always was a way for customers to appeal our decision."

Plaintiff lawyers disagree. They say Toyota failed to communicate the extent of the problem to its dealers and customers. Toyota's appeal process also meant hiring a lawyer, which many consumers could not afford. It costs nothing to file an appeal with Ates.

"The consumer only needs to show reasonable maintenance in terms of oil changes," Gambel said. "You don't need to prove where the sludge came from, or explain your driving habits. If you have oil sludge, Toyota pays" the consumer.

cooterbfd · January 2007

And here we come to the heart of the matter. If GM is going to survive they need to win over these (CamCord, I assume?)customers.
That may yet happen w/ the Malibu. This months Car and Driver tested the Aura against the CamCord, Altima, Kia Optima, and Sebring. The Camry finished 5th, ahead of only the Sebring (BTW the OLD Accord came in first). Now, these cars were priced out at $21k (Altima) to $24,500 (Camry), w/ automatics, so the ONLY ONE w/ a v-6 was the Aura (albeit the pushrod 3.5). However, the Aura was the only one w/ a 4-sp auto. Inspite of the pushrod and 4-sp, the Aura finished 4th, in a group of cars that were closely grouped (190-202 pts). The KIA got higher marks than the Camry for fit and finish!!!! While the Camry and Sebring (176 and 163 pts) LANGUISHED FAR BEHIND!!!

Remind me again, how close is Toyota coming to knocking off GM as the #1 car maker?
Well, that may VERY well happen. However, if this is what Toyota is going to put out in their quest for No.1 (the Tacoma also was criticised for body quiver and squeaks after a 40k mi test), and GM continues to put out cars like the Aura, the new CTS, the new Malibu, and the new full size CUV's, I don't think they'll be there for long, especially if auto sites and mags point out and people see poor quality.

jnt · January 2007

When you are making ~$ 10 Bil/ year like Toyota, you can afford to give some back to win market share.

Toyota is making more money than GM, Ford and Chrysler combined (when they actually made money rather than creative accounting to show profits).

I hope we will see stronger GM and Ford in the near future after the painful shrinking. I hate to see GM taken over by their Chinese partner (Shanghai Automotive) 4-5 years down the road.

jt

mr_bots · January 2007

The new Malibu looks pretty good. If I was in the market for another midsize car I'd probably look into it. I predict it will be rated pretty good also, it's platform mate that it will share most components and powertrains with, the Saturn Aura, is getting good reviews and just won 2007 Car of the Year. Hopefully these good reviews and awards will help convince people that GM is not the devil. Also, wasn't Toyota recall champ of 06? Didn't Toyota find loopholes in horsepower guideline to overrate them? Hasn't Toyota been sliding the sludge problem under the table for years? Must have been Ford or GM's fault. Don't get me wrong, GM and Ford make lots mistakes too, but they take a lot more heat for theirs than the Imports do. No one seems to notice when Toyota messes up.

savetheland · January 2007

If Camry has this kind of problems, like ripping off million people then they are supposedIf Camry has this kind of problem, like ripping off million people then Toyota should suffer consequences. It cannot pass unpunished. Nobody is going to buy another Toyota after having to replace engine, even if Toyota pays for it. And I do not mention cases when Toyota refuses to pay and we are talking about thousands dollar (like 5 grands or more).

Now explain me why Camry sales increase every year? Where are those millions customers?

1487 · January 2007

Check out chevy's website, they have added a little info on the Malibu. There are some great pics of the LTZ model from every angle and REAL interior pics. The car looks GOOD. Very good. That LTZ is the best looking sedan in this segment.

Its amazing how little press there has been about the Toyota sludge problem. Its almost like the press is ignoring it because it would damage their "Toyota does no wrong" mantra. Just last night I saw a segment on the national news talking about how the Big were desperate and the Japanese were taking over the industry. They said the Big 3's execs are nervous wrecks and are pretending to have confidence in their new vehicles. The reporter asked the editor of C&D "Are the domestic companies even capable of making a product consumers want?". Wow.

mrdisco33 · January 2007

"You are assuming that anyone in the market today has the same experiences you do and thus has reason to doubt GM. That isnt the case. Many people have owned GM products that have been reliable. What about those people?"

Those are the people GM continues to sell cars to.
Look I am not saying the Malibu is 'crap' or that GM is a terrible company. I'm saying they're going to have a very difficult time to win over customer's they've lost or have already been entrenched in the import product line. The Malibu looks good on paper, but its a question of how they can execute and deliver on reliability and dependability.

"BTW, Toyota has three brands, not two"

True if you're referring to the Scion line which is in the US. As a Canadian we only see the two lines which are Toyota and Lexus.

"JD Powers surveys are not awards like the MT car of the year. I dont know how you "spin" problems per vehicle but maybe you can explain how that can be done."

Simple. By hyping the fact that your car has won the JD Power award but play down the fact that its only on initial quality. I don't know about you but any car maker should be able to pass an initial quality survey. It's the long-term quality stats which is far more interesting and worthwhile to look at.

1487 · January 2007

I know the difference between initial quality and long term dependability. Check GM's rankings on the 3 year dependability study as well. They have brands that outrank some Japanese brands. BTW, not all brands do well in the initial quality and in case you didnt know the initial quality surveys are done to compare how many problems exist in recently assembled vehicles to gauge quality control for auto factories. They award the plants that create the vehicles with the fewest problems in 90 days.

"The Malibu looks good on paper, but its a question of how they can execute and deliver on reliability and dependability. "

Even if they do, it will take years for that data to be available so you might as well say an entreched import owner isnt going to consider the Malibu. I agree with that. There are flaws with many import cars such as lack of value, lack of style, shorter warranties, etc. but some people arent going to consider all options because of reliability concerns. For those leasing a car the warranty should be enough to ease concern. The days of domestic cars not starting up are long gone and almost anything else can be handled when you take the car in for servicing. If I was that scared to own a domestic I would lease to try them out and then go from there once the lease is up. Of course import lovers will never be satisfied because if the car is trouble free during the lease period you will say "all cars are problem free for 3 years, lets see how it holds up after 200k miles".

robbieg · January 2007

The Sonota is also a decent car and it is dirt cheap. In my opinion, a Malibu is closer to a Sonata than it is is to a Camry or an Accord. People who buy the Sonotas due so because of they are priced significantly less than an Accord or Camry. Unless, the Malibu is a actually better car than an Accord or Camry, I think GM has to price the Malibu considerably cheaper than those two in order to get "new" customers, as opposed to the same customers who have been buying GM cars for years regardless of how they are built.

1487 · January 2007

regardless of what you believe not everyone who owns a GM product is some idiot who is too blinded by self righteous patriotism to want a quality vehicle. You seem to be assuming GM turns out subpar cars because their customers are too ignorant to know the cars are subpar. Contrary to what many would have you believe, not every GM buyer refuses to cross shop with foreign brands. The notion that most or all GM customes are "lifers" who blindy purchase GM no matter what is silly. That may be true in the Detroit area but not nationwide.

BTW, why dont you check the pricing of the current Malibu to see how it stacks up against the Camry and Accord. It's ALREADY much cheaper so I dont see why you are so concerned that this new one wont be. The Malibu is in its third modern generation and its NEVER been priced the same as Accord and Camry.

The Malibu is head and shoulders above the Sonata. Its obviously better than the current accord as well, but we all know a new one is coming out this fall.

readerreader · January 2007

Here is the preliminary website:

http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu/prelaunch/

And here are some real-life pictures (Check out Edmunds' own blogs too!)

savetheland · January 2007

Gray color and gray interior - why they chose this color to unveil Malibu?

People why buy Accords or Camries normally are ignorant about cars. Just my observation.

beedublu · January 2007

Maybe it's just the camera angle, but they botched the rear end styling. Again. (But at least this time the muffler is tucked up where it doesn't look like it's about to fall out).

Also wondering: Does the LTZ model designation actually stand for "Lutz"?

1487 · January 2007

I dont have a problem with the rear end, it looks fine to me and far superior to the current rear end styling. To me it's better than the rear end of the Bangle Butt camry, Accord or Altima.

gonogo · January 2007

By looking at the features I don't think I will be able to afford one. My loaded 04 for 17 K, you will never get a 08 for anywhere near that price.

dodgeman07 · January 2007

I'd guess a "loaded" LTZ with the 4-cylinder will sticker for about $23K. Any higher than that and they'll be forced to rebate heavily by next winter.

2008-2009 Chevrolet Malibu

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