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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?



  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,322
    38000 Phantoms made between 1963-81? Where is this coming from?
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I don't think that the Mercedes 600 was comparable to the Phantom, certainly not the Phantom IV. Perhaps some of the 600 Limo's that were custom built may have.
  • esuommesuomm Posts: 19
    Mediapusher, does sound like a good investment. Though not the board for it, but we are all over the place, American made trucks have had less competition from the foreign car makers since the likes of Toy, Hon, Nissan haven't made a real full size truck. Ford, GM and Chevy will be taking even more of a beating when Toyota introduces their 8' bed pickup in Feb. They are in trouble. Same reason I am not buying a GM product again is the same many will buy the Toyo truck instead of GM once it comes out. Friend of mine just leased a CTS or DTS (whatever) and it sprung an oil leak in the driveway and couldn't be driven. Had to be towed back to the dealer. He had the car 3 months or so and it has been back twice, including this oil leak.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,322
    Phantom IV also predates the 600 by many years. I will say that any 600 was much greater than a plain old Silver Shadow. A 600 LWB was comparable with a Phantom V or VI...and production was similar.

    If we want to talk about a MB "flop", maybe the Maybach is better. But not the 600.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 13,615
    Just as how a SL550 and CTSV are almost identical in price,

    Please define "almost Identical" a SL550 starts at over $97K while the CTS-V tops out at around $55K. I would hate to see your ideal of much more expensive.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 13,615
    Friend of mine just leased a CTS or DTS (whatever) and it sprung an oil leak in the driveway and couldn't be driven. Had to be towed back to the dealer. He had the car 3 months or so and it has been back twice, including this oil leak.

    Sounds like my sisters Toyota or my neighbors Honda, so don't buy those makes either.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • He meant XLR-V...

    Just got his alphanumeric names confused.

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 13,615
    Ah ok, honestly it is over priced.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Posts: 43,322
    Yeah my bad.

    When I think "V" I think of the CTS anyway...the original, and best value of the bunch.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The 600's were for their day, similar to the current Maybach I think. I will agree that the 600 was better engineered than the Rolls. But, the Rolls is recognizable by people who know nothing about cars, while the 600, if these people would recognize it as a Mercedes, would only see it as a Mercedes sedan. This is why the Maybach is not doing better than it is. Of course, the BMW Rolls is a much better engineered Rolls than any Rolls has probably ever been, at least in the last 50 years.

    What about the current McLaren SLR? Mercedes contracted for a minimum of 4000 units.
  • laurasada-

    The XLR is based on the Corvette Chassis and Northstar engine. It is somewhat overpriced, but at least it looks like the money. The Cadillac Allante didn't look like the money from the exterior. Also from what I have heardm the XLR is ill plagued with excessive body lean and roll, it's too heavy, and doesn't have a sporty feel.

    The XLR is overpriced because G.M. would very much like to capture the ovepriced market that Mercedes and BMW seem to capture with such ease.


    "Actually, I believe that the XLR does have a Northstar engine. But, like the Allante, it is ridiculously overpriced. In base and -V guise. A recurring Cadillac theme..."
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The Allante, like the Eldorado Brougham, was shipped to Italy to get some European flavor to justify a much higher price. It would have made far to much sense to build the Allante in the Reatta factory and price it at $40,000.
  • Yes, but how old are your uncles. A person would have to be beyond stupid if they don't think the generation you were born in has something to do with how you purchase your car.

    Cadillacs are probably all your uncles need, if they are like the type of people I think they are (drive to the store and back, and the occasional Cadillac club stroll down the coast of California's highway 1 for a Cadillac convention and back) Especially if a person has to have a Cadillac "Hog". I can tell they are way "old school" types :blush: People don't call Cadillacs "hogs" anymore. This is what they were called in the '50's and early part of the '60's (due to their gluttonous nature and aura, Cadillac didn't have sports models in those days) The only slang term I hear Cadillacs being called is "Caddy"

    "Yep, really. Devilles, DTSs and STS. They'll have nothing else."

  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Cadillac's fuel consumption got much worse after the HydraMatic was replaced with the TurboHydraMatic and the 429 cubic inch V8 in 1964. From there the engines simply got bigger and fuel consumption was worst, probably for the 1973-74 models, with exhaust gas recirulation, but before catalysts. Fuel consumption improved with the 1977 downsizing. The 1982 move to the 4100 greatly improved Cadillac's CAFE (from 18 to 22).
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My brother has a Honda that has needed a major engine overhaul. A known problem with that Honda engine, and his car was beyond the warranty period.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Both the Rolls Royce and Mercedes 600 started at around $20,000. I think that my perception that the basic 600 sedan was comparable to the Silver Shadow is reasonable.

    When the Beatles had it made, so to speak, they bought a Rolls.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 58,856
    Well in a peverse way they WERE both comparable---the 600 and the Shadow were equally troublesome, ridiculously complex cars....and today, either of them is a real hard sell.

    They were not comparable in performance and handling however...the 600 would run rings around the Shadow. One was modern, one was totally obsolete.

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  • XrRunner2-

    But this proposition would offend many General Motors purists and the simpletons out there that think we have to "buy american". Whatever that
    means. There are still those freaks out there running around in the U.S.A.
    Buy American, Buy American. (Ahhh put a cork in it, would ya?!) You just wanna turn around and pimp slap these simpletons.
    They don't know how thoroughly idiotic they sound.

    If I only "bought American" my house would be empty, and I'd be forced to walk around naked, cause I sure as hell wouldn't have any clothes to wear. And judging from most of the comments on this board, 90 percent of my salary would go to mechanics and hmmm, Delphi parts. What a coincidence--- NOT .

    If I'm supposed to "buy american" why does Cadillac use a transmission designed and built by the French for the Cadillac SRX? Why does Chevrolet sell cosmetically engineered Toyota Corollas as Geo/Chevrolet Prizms. And one of the most obvious examples of their cosmetic engineer whoring, was the now defunct Cadillac Allaante, designed and built in Italy by the famous Pinafarina group (Ferrari) , with Pinafarina proudly written on the sides of it. I think the only thing Cadillac had to do with that car was the engine. The Cadillac Allante had the smell of desperation all over it.

    So people please keep your silly and hypocritical "buy american" mantra where it belongs, in the garbage disposal, cause apparently not even your "beloved" Cadillac or other G.M divisions want to "buy american"..... Sad state of affairs :\

    ---- mediapusher

    The STS-V without bluetooth - the STS without an engine...the SRX without a theme or the XLR, well, that one isn't bad, but without a Northstar?

    GM has had joint ventures with Toyota and others. GM has used Honda V6s in some Saturns in past. GM ought to think about trying to get a manufacturing license from Honda or Nissan to build/put their "world-class" engines in Caddys such as CTS. These Caddys would then stand a better chance of being a "standard". Precendent already been set a number of times for GM to use Japanese engineeering, most recent example being Toyota's Pontiac Vibe.

    A Honda or Nissan engine in a CTS having great styling, interior, suspension, brakes would be a positive for GM and Caddy. What with some GM US models already being engineered and built outside of US, not much of a stretch to outsource for world-class engine technology.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 13,615
    Based on the stellar experience I’ve had with my 2003 Toyota, you are either lying to try and lessen the terrible things people have known and are saying about General Motors on this board,

    Well then can I say based on the steller experience I had with my 1992 Chevy Corsica esuomm is either lying or trying to make General Motors look bad.

    What I am trying to point out is that just because one person has a bad experience with one car does not mean that the whole brand is bad.

    Or you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t like to do the regularly scheduled maintenance on their car (your sister)

    My sister keeps to stringent maintence schedules, think sludge (it was a major problem with toyotas). My neighbors Honda had the exhaust system dropped with less than 50 miles on it (he only put 3 or 4 miles on it driving it home from the dealer) that one blew the tranny at 5 or 6K miles. Can't blame that on poor maintenance.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • As you see it? Then you must have cataracts. How do you explain the instant phenomenal success that Toyota has had with their Scion line? It's because Toyota does their homework and doesn't dump their products on the public to test them.

    I'm sure it helps American car companies keep their costs down, but this tactic also regularly backfires on them.

    As I see it, any new vehicle is an experiment. No one can really say how something will sell until one puts it into production.

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