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Comments
Hoping to build on the successful debut of the CTS in the United States, General Motors could create a CTS family of models reminiscent of the BMW 3 series. If Cadillac expands its presence in Europe, it could afford to build niche vehicles like a wagon that otherwise would face a marginal future as U.S.-only cars.
GM already has produced clay models of these new Cadillacs. In the near future, it will decide whether to OK development, say GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz and Cadillac General Manager Jim Taylor.
Starting in the late 1990s, GM jump-started Cadillac's fortunes with sharp-edged design, luxury SUVs and rear-wheel-drive cars. Now Taylor and Lutz want to build more momentum.
During interviews at the Geneva auto show, both executives explained their plans to make Cadillac competitive with Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz. They also voiced varying opinions about some Cadillac issues, offering a revealing glimpse of GM's internal give-and-take.
As Cadillac enters the second phase of its revival, they must decide:
Whether to approve a long-delayed ultra-luxury car costing more than $150,000 (see column, above).
Whether Cadillac needs an entry-level model priced under $30,000. Taylor is reluctant; he prefers to keep the CTS as Cadillac's lowest-priced car. Lutz says he is open to an entry-level Cadillac, but it won't be the European BLS sedan.
Whether to keep or discontinue the front-wheel-drive DTS sedan, Cadillac's top-selling nameplate. Taylor says he's undecided; Lutz prefers to phase it out and keep the rwd STS.
Front-wheel drive does not match the brand image of global luxury Cadillac is seeking. But the DTS was Cadillac's top seller last year, with U.S. sales of 58,224. The DTS accounted for 25.6 percent - about one-quarter of the brand's U.S. volume.
Taylor said GM could put the DTS on the Zeta rwd platform, which will be used for the coming Pontiac G8; merge it with the STS line; or keep it in its current form.
But in a separate interview, Lutz flatly stated that the DTS replacement should be rwd.
Selling more vehicles outside Cadillac's traditional U.S. stronghold would make it easier to build a business case for niche vehicles, Taylor said. Higher sales volumes would allow GM to achieve economies of scale currently enjoyed by key competitors BMW and Mercedes.
"If all you have is your U.S. volume, it's pretty hard to put together a capital case," Taylor said.
The CTS wagon in particular would be stronger in Europe than the United States, and would aid GM's struggle to build the brand there, he said. To be successful, it must achieve annual global sales of 20,000 units, Taylor said. For comparison, GM sold 54,846 CTS units in the United States last year.
Small Caddy?
Lutz said GM will not bring the European BLS, a front-drive car that shares parts with the Saab 9-3, to the United States. As for a small rwd vehicle, "there's certainly an opening, whether we choose to fill it or not," Lutz said.
Taylor takes the opposite view. He says GM doesn't need a smaller car slotted below the CTS. The smaller car would compete with cars such as the Audi A3 and the coming BMW 1 series and would sell in the upper $20,000s.
Says Taylor: "We're not going there. We're a $30,000-to-$40,000 player, not a $20,000-to-$30,000 player."
At the upper end of the lineup, the two executives say they are considering an ultra-luxury car to enhance Cadillac's brand prestige. Both mentioned the Sixteen and Cien concepts as possible models. The Sixteen is a large sedan with a V-16 engine and the Cien a futuristic V-12 sports car.
But Lutz and Taylor say the ultra-luxury program keeps getting delayed. Said Lutz: "We always wind up pushing it out one more year because we have other, more pressing priorities."
Do you think their is room for a Cadillac below the CTS ?
I do. I think Taylor, needs to reconsider. I also think Lutz, should use his power to overrule Taylor on this decision as I think a 1-series competitor would do a fine job here in the U.S. Would that 2.9 turbo diesel fit ?
Rocky
I'm interested to see just how much more the CTS-V will cost. I sure hope it doesn't get above $55,000 for a loaded out one. I guess Cadillac, is going to limit 7500 V-models in 2009' which is enough to at least get my hands on one.
I do really think this is the car I should just wait for as buying it I would have zero regrets. I however have thought about just buying a 08' CTS-AWD so I could have all-weather capability and could own one less car. However I've always wanted to own a sports car in my life and with having a wife and 2 kids this would be my most practical solution and this car wouldn't kill me in gas either as it will get somewhere between 26-30 mpg hwy. I will for sure take a 2008' CTS for a test run but then I will have the hard choice of saving the money on a regular CTS or say screw it and get a dream car like the CTS-V. :shades:
Rocky
It is not Taylors or Lutz's job to go out and tell the world GM's vehicle plans for the future.
IMO, Cadillac could use a 3 series car BUT it should start at $29k with decent options, no $25k stripper. The CTS should move up to $36K with decent options. The reaxon CTS is so cheap now is that is entry level to Cadillac.
Caddy are so full of themselves. I think to have an entry level FWD sports sedan priced at around $27,000 can only help Caddy much less of hurting them. Right now what Caddy has to do is to attract younger buyers and develop them into loyal Caddy owners. What's better to accomplish that other than having a reasonable-priced entry sedan which emphasizing the word "sporty". Does the word "TSX" ring a bell, anybody?
Think about this:
Entry Caddy: New College/Grad School Grad in their early 20s
CTS: The same guys in their 30s and 40s
STS: The same guys in their 40s and 50s
DTS: The same guys in their retirement ages
That's life-time Caddy ownership, and I haven't include any SUVs that Caddy has to offer. One thing Caddy (or GM) needs to understand is that attracting new customer is harder than retaining a happy current owner so if Caddy wants to become the number 1 luxury brand in this country (or the world) the first thing they have to do is to get as many butt as they could inside a Cadillac product.
I rest my case.
Note: the key word here is "luxury" and the young professional types that I know of are definitely NOT interested in Chevy, Ponitac, Buick, Saturn and even Honda, Toyota and Nissan in that case.
The BLS is basically a European Cimarron.
The Lexus IS starts at $30k and then you add a few packages and it is $38k real quick.
BMW 3 series starts at $33k and again add a couple options and you hit $40k.
Infiniti G sedan is exactly the same $32K to buy into it.
Acura TSX does start at $29K but again getting it over $35K is not hard. Their sales show though that it is not selling very well at that price. The BMW 3 at a much higher transaction price outsells it 3:1.
Taylor is just realizing what LUXURY means in todays market.
The FWD Acura's are not considered serious sports sedans in comparison tests.
The CTS is priced right about where it should be if you compare it to the BMW 3-Series, Lexus IS, and Infiniti G.
Shoot, what kind of lucky kids are getting out of school these days and straight into a luxury vehicle? Is Mommy or Daddy paying for it? Heck, my first new car was a 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic and I paid for it! It was enough of a luxury vehicle for me.
As for TSX, it was actually selling quiet well when it was in its early years. Now it's starting to show its age and that has reflex on the sales number as well. I truly think the TSX/TL combo that Acura has in play could serve as a good study-case for Caddy. BTW, nobody is paying more than $30K for TSX these days, I had a friend whom got a TSX (w/o navi, navi adds $2K) for $26.5K and last I heard, dealers are more than willing to deal these days.
Also, nobody is talking about the baby FWD Caddy should be a serious sports sedan. As long as it's "sporty" enough with a reasonable price then it'll compete. If Saturn can call its Aura a "sports sedan" then anything is a possibility...
CTS is larger than 3 and IS and if size means anything is priced too low compared to the them. Cadillac could easily put in a smaller "cooler" sports sedan at a lower price ($29k) and sell just as many..
If Cadillac wants to follow Aucru, that's fine, but it will be counter-productive in approaching the Holy Trinity (Mercedes, BMW, Lexus).
By going low, it cheapens the brand, when you're trying to increase brand value. It says, not so subtley, we can't really compete with the big dogs, so let's get what we can get with some Good Ole Humble Pie.
The Next CTS looks very promising to me. I wouldn't set foot in the current CTS interior, but the new one is better than the G35s, by a margin. The CTS coupe would be a very good idea, but wagon won't sell here, maybe in Europe.
Instead of going downmarket, GM needs an upmarket strategy. Selling $70k Suburbans isn't a good long-term strategy for high-end clientele.
GM's on the right track, but there is no quick fix. Another Cim-moron is the last thing GM needs.
It would appear Cadillac is learning from their past, and that is Step 1 to a brighter future.
DrFill
Would I bet my car key on future satisfied 1-series, A3 and TSX owners switching to Cadillac when it's time for them to move up? Not in a million years...
That is a huge gamble they are taking. AND they have not done it yet so we will see how they do.
So in my personal case as an example, Audi got me into their market with the A3, and they have won a new customer that will consider their more expensive vehicles in the future should my career go as planned (or better)
They are performance specialist, like Bose. The 1-series, IMO, will work far better than TSX or A3, which are treading water, at best. They aren't setting the world on fire, and the top-tier brands aren't blinking.
My understanding is the 130i will be a MazdaSpeed3 competitor, more or less. I would get the Mazda over the 130i or A3, at this point. The 130 is pretty funny-looking, but may grow on me.
Acura and Audi are making every attempt to get people into the dealership, as the A4 is also easily had at far less than $30k. I don't consider either brand top-tier.
BMW probably is the strongest brand in cardom because of their ability to specialize. No other company can really do what they do, dynamically. So if BMW wants to sell products from $25k to $300k, they can.
Lexus and Mercedes see it as self-defeating to go that low, 2nd-tier marques NEED to go that low.
Cadillac is deciding which road to take.
DrFill
Cadillac is deciding which road to take.
I think Mercedes has already gone 2nd-tier or below with their low line C models; only their practice of drastically over charging and overpricing their stuff has kept the price from following the quality (which is way downhill). I believe that Mercedes is 10 times more "2nd tier" now that they have learned from Chrysler how to build the least reliable and dependable vehicles on the market.
I think Audi and Acura have both climbed well above Mercedes in the 25K to 45K market. BMW is the wild card/sleeper. They make somewhat below average vehicles in terms of reliability, and the 3 series does seem to be overpriced, but they do make vehicles people want to both buy and drive. Audi and Acura are doing just fine as 1st tier car makers. Acura doesn't need to make a 100,000 dollar car because they can do just as good for $50K.
If anyone has gone downhill, it is definitely Mercedes.
Acura doesn't need to make a 100,000 dollar car because they can do just as good for $50K.
If that were true, the RL would be beloved, and the TSX probably wouldn't be here at all.
Acura has proven very good at making expensive Hondas, but not building Acuras.
Or better put, Acura hasn't successfully seperated itself from Honda. And doesn't seem in any rush to do so. :confuse:
DrFill
Jag made the mistake of their marque by introducing the X type. Sure Ford did not make all the right moves but going downscale sealed the deal. Folks who buy luxury cars do not want to see every john, dick or harry driving the same vehicles.
But, with gas prices going up it is possible that smaller luxury cars at their higher prices may do well even with their cheaper counterparts (non lux marques) at much lower prices. I just feel that it will cheapen the overall brand and they will lose PROFITABLE volume overall.
marketing 101...
That is mainly because of Audi's stubborn insistance and greedy attitude. Audi wants to make a hefty profit on every single vehicle they sell. They are not after quantity, but profit per vehicle. They could easily sell 5X more A3's if they lowered the price some, but they want the big time profit.
Those greedy people! They want the profit and want to hold the price on a luxury vehicle! Base price is $26k but to get a decent car you are over $30k mighty fast. Ahh, the price of luxury!
I hear ha, Lemko. But you know what USC stands for, dontcha? University of Spoiled Children. I go by a highschool every morning on the way to work, and see new BMWs and Acuras, Infiniti's and Scions there and wonder how this is possible if the economy is allegedly so bad. I had no car of my own in High School, I had to borrow Mom's Ford LTD if she wasn't going to use it that day.... My first car was a 10 year old Ford Galaxie that I got myself for my first year of college, and I was damn happy to have it, even though it looked like Andy Griffith's squad car. The problem is, I don't see any Cadillacs in that parking lot. I do see Tahoes and Denalis, but very few by comparison. It will be very interesting to see if this new generation will even give domestic cars a chance, and when yours and my car buying days are over - what will happen to GM.
What IS going on???
For my next car which I will probably get as a graduation gift next year I want a 08 Cadillac CTS or a Lincoln MKZ AWD
For my next car which I will probably get as a graduation gift next year I want a 08 Cadillac CTS or a Lincoln MKZ AWD.
Good for you!
It's nice to hear someone supporting the domestics (well, even if the MKZ is made in Mexico).
I can agree with that
Rocky
louiswei,
I 100% agree the TSX/TL combo is something to learn from but improve upon for Cadillac.
Rocky
I 100% agree and love your idea of the $29K price point and have GM, move a little up market with the CTS to give the 1-series Caddy competitor some breathing room. This is the approach BMW, is going with it's 1-series and GM, needs to follow suit. :shades:
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
The 1er is about the same size and weight as the '90s 3er was.
I believe it is a gamble that will not pay off for them UNLESS they really make it some kind of mini sporty car that kicks a**.
135i
You're likely correct about a RWD BLS matching up with the current fat bloated sack of a 3er.
As I see it the Ultra is a replacement for the northstar, so I do not see them as different engines in the long term. I do understand that the ultra is all new, and hopefully much better.
And that is how this discussion got started!!
Rocky
GM's not taking any shortcuts this time around. Expect to see fur flying when this 5-series killer comes out in the fall.
Yes, it IS a 5 series/E-Class/A6 competitor. Cadillac has wisely decided to not do small cars in the U.S. Ever. Get over it. Move on. The CTS is just properly priced without the badge markup. And it's going to blow a hole in the sales of those old stodgy designs. Almost 55K CTS sales last year - that's pretty respectable.
What's the gas milage on that one Rocky?