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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Six months ago Cadillac was not on my radar screen. I am in the market for a newer SUV. I am tired of getting in and out of my wife's LS400. It is a nice car and we will keep it. We want something newer for taking trips in. My wife leans toward the Mercedes as she owned several and liked them. I am not wanting to deal with the local MB dealer. Also not sure of the cost for long term warranty. As a result of some posters here I decided to look at the Cadillac SRX. It was nice, BUT. I like the last generation of Escalade better. I like the plush feel and the handling. I like the white diamond color. Most of all I like the price. Just as ALL cars there is a BIG hit when you drive off the lot. If I buy the 2006 Escalade I am looking at. The deciding factor is the Certified warranty. It is 6 years and 100k miles bumper to bumper with $0 deductible. The price is below Edmund's TMV by several thousand dollars. And I like the salesman I was talking to.

    Cadillac are sure they are the standard of excellence, and give a better warranty than the competitors to back it up.
  • punkr77punkr77 Member Posts: 183
    Generally, I would think that if you can afford a V-12 car, you aren't worried about repairs, fuel mileage, etc. I'd figure it would be in the $80k+ price range. Most of those purchasing at that price aren't going to be keeping the car past warranty.

    I wouldn't think it would be much, if any worse than maintaining one of the high dollar Benzes once the super expensive electronics and rare-ish model specific parts start failing. Ever look at what you can buy a $100K Benz for after it's 5 or 6 years old.

    But again, people who buy that kind of car don't care about that. For people buying cars at that price range it boils down to: I want it so I'll buy it. The real question should be how many people who can afford to drop $100K+ on a car would buy a Caddy? I can't picture many CEO's and Hollywood types going out and buying a Caddy to show they've "made it." There's only two American cars that really fit that bill that have been made in the last decade (not counting one-off's and customs) the Ford GT and the Saleen S7.

    I just don't see a workable business strategy that would result in Caddy again becoming the standard. Competative in the $30-60K luxury segment maybe, but not a global player at the pinacle of the automotive art. This is especially true when it's parent company is struggling. GM needs to focus all it's efforts on building amazing cars and trucks at the price points 99% of us buy at.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The entire US auto industry is no longer a major global player, so I agree, Cadillac has no chance at that either.

    In 1957 US share of the global market was 67.5%. Today it is only 17.7%.

    The market world-wide is far too diverse for any one marque to gain dominance. Competition is ferocious and it's very difficult to overtake anyone, much less someone out in front of you.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    2022 X3 M40i
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not from PR releases, no matter how good they look.

    It all happens on the battlefield...how a car performs day after day, year after year, and how brand equity is built in the public's mind.

    Even if Cadillac (or WHOEVER) suddenly built the best car in the world, it would take 5 to 10 years for the buying public to respond significantly, in terms of sales.

    For example, Hyundai cars are 10X better than they ever were---do they outsell Toyota? Nope. Mitsubishi cars are vastly improved over ten years ago---but still a second tier player. Mercedes is probably a lesser car than it was ten years ago---are they falling off the table into obscurity? Nope.

    So it takes a long time for the situation to change, pro or con.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The STS is still a quite new model, so the changes for 2008 are minor improvements. The big change is the DI V6 with the six speed automatic which I think will make the V6 a much better car. For the money, the V6 is probably a good choice, although a CTS might be an even better buy. The STS V8 is of questionable value, depending on the level of options. With the performance packages, the STS V8 is so expensive that I think it is not worthwhile.

    As far as the idiotic Standard of the World stuff goes, I question that Cadillac was ever the standard of the world, although, after World War Two, when the auto industry in the rest of the world was bombed out for the most part, perhaps Cadillac was on top in some meaningless fashion. At this point in time I do not think any make is a "Standard of the World". No one has explained to my satisfaction just what being the "Standard of the World" really means. Cadillac won the advertising rights to this title by taking the Dewar Trophy for "Standardization", but this had very explicit meaning at the time, and has nothing to do with Cadillac's use in its adverstising of the late 1950's. Cadillac's advertising slogan "Standard of the World" is the usual stuff and nonsense of advertising.

    I suggested at the beginning of this forum that it was a pointless discussion unless we could define exactly was we are really talking about.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Snakeweasel-

    It's very much a basis in reality. If a company wants to be standard of the world it can't for decades deceive its customers and expect them to be loyal or expect its products to be standard of the world (whatever that means) when it insists on using cheaper than cheap materials and building cars that make one feel as if they're sitting in an ice chest.

    So if there is an anti-GM bias, IT'S JUSTIFIED, based on the horrible experiences people have had with this corporation.

    Ever heard of the term "Once bitten, twice shy". Many of these people were three times bitten or more, then finally got shy. The massive defections from Cadillac that they brought upon themselves and that occurred in the 1980's and 90's, still lingers on today. That's not anti GM bias. That's reality.

    Look at what the CURRENT consumer index has to say about most of Cadillac's products. Do you consider that anti-GM bias too simply because it offends your blind pride and sensitivity?
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    It reads nice enough, for $36,000. I think GM will want more than that, though, which will be a problem when this shows up on dealer lots.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Oh, they most definately brought it upon themselves in the early to mid 1980s starting with the V-8-6-4. 4100 engine, Cimmaron, radically downsized Deville/Fleetwood of 1985 and the diminutive Eldorado/Seville of 1986.

    But what was wrong with the 1990s Cadillacs? I believe the 1992 Seville and Eldorado were the beginning of Cadillac's rebirth. The 1998-2003 Seville was even prettier. I had a 1994 DeVille and had absolutely no trouble with it. Heck, even my 1989 Cadillac Brougham is pretty much bulletproof.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Rayainsw-

    That report doesn't prove anything. It's just more delusional public relations spinning from General Motors. They did the same thing in January 2007 with their Chevrolet Volt Electric Concept Car, which they don't and sadly engough never did intend on bringing to production.

    ---mediapusher
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    But what was wrong with the 1990s Cadillacs?

    They looked nicer than their '80s predecessors, but they were also 5-20 years (depending on the model) behind their German and Japanese counterparts in technology and design. Your 1989 Brougham is basically a 1969 Caprice with some ill-considered emissions equipment added on.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Lemko-

    I agree with you, but the problem with the Cadillac Seville is that is wasn't a CTS. Cadillac needs more of a line up similar to their CTS's. Look at what a hit the CTS has been. A little more tweaking and refining and they can use the CTS as their "frame".

    I'm really surprised the STS has had so many problems, since it's basically a longer CTS on steroids. And uhh.... the Catera :( puhleeeez. What a nightmare the Catera was.

    Cadillac still has too many "highway ocean liners". People that enjoy driving, don't like those kind of cars. We want something more sprite and athletic. Even the XLR gets mixed reviews. It's not refined enough for the price they want for it.

    Another problem is that GM always seems to be way behind the competition and has strange marketing tactics, as if all they want to do is insult their potential customers. (e.g. -- The "C.E.O but not quite" commercial for the CTS, and "The Power of &")
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    I doubt Lexus, and especially Infiniti, will find much success in Europe as Europeans are even more fiercely loyal to their own luxury makes.

    1) Higher growth is to be found in the big developing countries (China, India, Russia) which are not as loyal to the Germans. Lexus and Infiniti are moving in there, in many cases even before they move into Europe.

    2) Toyota and Nissan are very patient. Toyota likes to brag they were in the US for 20 odd years (from the 50's) until they realized any profit. Same thing in Europe, for a long time the Japanese share remained stagnant, but recently it gained more than any other sector. One reason is EC expansion, so auto nationalism was much reduced: now Renault, Peugeot and VW all produce cars in eastern Europe (sounds familiar, doesn't it, American cars made south of the border!). And most importantly, the German makes can't seem to erase the quality gap with the Japanese. That gap will not erode loyalty overnight, but it most probably will over time.

    I said Caddy will have to hard expanding overseas mainly because GM of NA has almost no experience exporting cars. The only GM divisions with export experience are Opel and Saab.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The only GM divisions with export experience are Opel and Saab.

    And Holden.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    They did the same thing in January 2007 with their Chevrolet Volt Electric Concept Car, which they don't and sadly engough never did intend on bringing to production.

    Do you have anything to back this up? I know the guys (whoops and gals) working on it. There will be one. However it will not make the promises of 40 miles per charge UNLESS the batteries get better. Luckily battery tech is rapidly changing and we may have a battery by 2011 that will come close to the goal.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    and GM Daewoo and every other division that builds cars. In fact what division/engineering center does not export cars?
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Here's your back up sir :|

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5510138?source=rss

    And what are they gonna do 62vetteefp, if and whenever it comes to fruition; build it, then "kill" it a couple years later like they did with the EV1?????

    _______________________________________________

    reference text::::
    They did the same thing in January 2007 with their Chevrolet Volt Electric Concept Car, which they don't and sadly engough never did intend on bringing to production.

    Do you have anything to back this up? I know the guys (whoops and gals) working on it. There will be one. However it will not make the promises of 40 miles per charge UNLESS the batteries get better. Luckily battery tech is rapidly changing and we may have a battery by 2011 that will come close to the goal
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    However it will not make the promises of 40 miles per charge UNLESS the batteries get better.

    The batteries already exist, just not at a price that GM is willing to pay.
  • punkr77punkr77 Member Posts: 183
    Very few of the big American cars will see any success in Europe, but not just because of fierce country loyalty. Most vehicles that are successful here just don't fit the conditions overseas. Big cars and SUV's are ill suited to the European driving environment. Traffic in most Urban areas makes rush hour in Manhattan look tame, parking spaces are few and far between, narrow streets, and super high gas prices and tiny garages are just a few of the differences.

    Kind of like the Smart car's introduction to America, only in reverse.

    If you add in the costs of shipping the cars overseas, extended dealer networks, etc. and Caddy wouldn't be able to compete price-wise either. Think BMW in reverse. BMW's run thouands of dollars more here than they do in country.
  • punkr77punkr77 Member Posts: 183
    Mediapusher's post is a perfect example of why GM and the rest of the Big 3 have their work cut out for them. There's a large segment of the population that hold a huge amount of animosity towards GM for very personal reasons.

    It's kind of like poor customer service at a restauraunt. Most people don't complain, they just never go back and tell every person who will listen how bad their experience was. There are legions of people for whom GM=junk, overcoming that will take years (which GM may or may not survive).

    Caddy, along with the rest of GM will likely never bring them back into the fold. Worse, they have another huge chunk of the population that has been saturated with GM horror stories from the age of 16 on.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    build it, then "kill" it a couple years later like they did with the EV1?????

    That was strictly political. The other automakers including Toyota did the same with their EV offerings. CA and CARB pulled the rug out from under the ZEV program. Every electric vehicle was a loss to the manufacturer, brought on by an ill conceived law. Then the law was rescinded. Not GMs fault. Blame the CA legislature.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    In the latest Car & Driver the SRX was rated #2 in the midsize SUV comparison test - for what it is worth :surprise:
    In the discussion all testers said that the SRX would be the one to take on a long trip.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    and sadly engough never did intend on bringing to production

    Nowhere does it say it will not be built. GM is working to build it. Prototypes are being designed. As I said the major issue is the development of batteries and no one can assure that they will be ready in time for the car. GM does intend to bring it to market. You can make all the assumptions you want but it will be forthcoming.

    General Motors Corp. seized the world's attention in January when it unveiled plans to build the Chevrolet Volt - a plug-in hybrid car touted not so much as a mode of transportation but as part of a solution to the nation's energy crisis.

    The Volt grabbed headlines, lit up online chat boards and dominated the buzz at the auto show in Detroit.

    There's just one problem: The Volt may never get built.

    Production depends on advances in battery technology that could be years away. The uncertainty led to intense debate within GM over whether it was wise to show the Volt in Detroit. And now that the world is waiting for GM to deliver what could be the biggest environmental breakthrough so far this century, company officials are actively trying to temper expectations.

    The magnitude of GM's challenge was evident recently when it called journalists to explain the technological hurdles facing the Volt project - and reiterate that it can't guarantee the futuristic car will ever hit the road.

    "The pressure is intense," Nick Zielinski, the Volt's chief engineer, said at the event.

    Still, GM's Volt gamble could pay off big for an automaker trying to transform its behind-the-times image. A vehicle loaded with cutting-edge green technology would position GM as an environmental leader and help it compete against foreign rivals that dominate the growing market for Earth-friendly cars and trucks.

    The Volt isn't GM's first foray into electric cars. In the 1990s, the automaker spent $1 billion on its EV1 electric-car program, which ended when GM demanded the return of its leased vehicles. The decision drew the ire of environmental groups and EV1 drivers and spawned the unflattering "Who Killed the Electric Car?" documentary.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The batteries already exist, just not at a price that GM is willing to pay.

    They exist but are too large and heavy and expensive at this time. Further development work needs to be done to make them smaller and cheaper.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    If it's not going to be built until 15 to 20 years down the line what is the point about making so much noise about the Chevrolet Volt in January 2007? I don't get it.
    ______________________________________
    reference text:::::

    General Motors Corp. seized the world's attention in January when it unveiled plans to build the Chevrolet Volt - a plug-in hybrid car touted not so much as a mode of transportation but as part of a solution to the nation's energy crisis.

    The Volt grabbed headlines, lit up online chat boards and dominated the buzz at the auto show in Detroit.

    There's just one problem: The Volt may never get built.
  • aldwaldw Member Posts: 82
    Even the naysayers on the GMblogs say that it would be latecoming, not that it wouldn't be made. The amount of prejudice coming out of your mouth here is enough to make yaks retch, if you don't like GM that's your opinion, but to act as if the auto industry needs to revolve around that is just asnine (and this is coming from someone who was really anti-GM).
  • aldwaldw Member Posts: 82
    Whatever the case, GM needs to bring Cadillac up as a worldbeater no matter the cost in time or money to do so, as true excellence requires a commitment of effort over long periods to achieve.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    What seems like prejudice is to you, is just a result of what I and many think about GM's scatterbrained performance over the last 3 decades. Prejudice has nothing to do with it. The GMBlogs will say whatever the hell they want to say in order to get gullible ones like you to believe they're actually doing something.

    It may be of some comfort to you that I feel the same way about Volkswagen, Jaguar and a few others. However this is a Cadillac board and Cadillac belongs to GM doesn't it? So I'm not going to talk about the other weird automobile manufacturers.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    In 1957 US share of the global market was 67.5%. Today it is only 17.7%.

    Just remember that in 1957 the entire industrialized world (with the exception of the US and Canada) was still recovering from WWII.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    It's very much a basis in reality.

    Only if your reality is shaped by preconceived notions. Face it there are people that no matter how good Caddy makes cars and how bad someone like BMW makes them they will still say that the BMW is far superior to the Caddy.

    The massive defections from Cadillac that they brought upon themselves and that occurred in the 1980's and 90's, still lingers on today. That's not anti GM bias. That's reality.

    If those defects are no longer in the Cadillacs than it is not a reality, it is a bias.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    What is the pertinent need to make Cadillac the standard of the world again, if they ever were. GM is doing great in several other countries. Perhaps they are ok with that?

    If they wanted to be "standard of the world" they would have done it by now.
    _________________________________

    reference text:::::::
    #2380 of 2381 Re: The Standard of the World? [mediapusher] by aldw Mar 29, 2007 (3:01 pm)
    Replying to: mediapusher (Mar 29, 2007 9:46 am)

    Whatever the case, GM needs to bring Cadillac up as a worldbeater no matter the cost in time or money to do so, as true excellence requires a commitment of effort over long periods to achieve.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    OK lets say for instance it isn't reality. It certainly is justified bias. Like I said, once bitten, twice shy. Only a FOOL puts his hand on a hot stove forever with "LOYALTY", and then is surprised that he is burned
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    that wasn't trustworthy in the past.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...and the automobile market was also a lot smaller.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Kind of like the Smart car's introduction to America, only in reverse.

    I'd be interested in what you know about the Smart Car's intro to America. From what I know, Roger Penske has been importing them "unofficially". But it's hard to get a bank to finance them because they're not really on the books anywhere here.

    Got any other info?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    OK lets say for instance it isn't reality. It certainly is justified bias. Like I said, once bitten, twice shy. Only a FOOL puts his hand on a hot stove forever with "LOYALTY", and then is surprised that he is burned

    When I mention the crap I have bought NEW from Toyota & Honda, I get the same old story "That was a long time ago". So I will say the same here. 1980s and 1990s was a long time ago.

    If you can see through the tint in the Escalades, Yukons and Tahoes in So California, you will find it is a very young consumer group. Maybe the cars are still bought by older folks. That makes little difference in the bottom line at Cadillac. The Escalade has been a big part of the return to prominence of the Cadillac name plate.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Only a FOOL puts his hand on a hot stove forever with "LOYALTY", and then is surprised that he is burned

    And only a fool will continue to believe that the stove will stay hot forever.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Can I ask how you got this info? How can you import something "unofficially"? Especially in this day and age. Are you saying he is smuggling them in?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Not really. From what I understand, he is buying 05 Smarts, importing them, and having them distributed by some dealers. Since they still have literally no miles on them, they are considered new, at least in Nevada (Up to 2500 miles), and the dealers are re-selling them. But if you look one up by VIN on Carfax for example, they have a record on it, but no name or info comes up. Just the history of the Vin, and the car being purchased in St. Louis. That's what I meant by unofficially. Penske is not a distributor, Mercedes should be, since they make them. But they are DOT approved cars, not grey markets, I believe.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    You disagree about this. Now that you've made this clear for the umpteenth time today, can we move on with the discussion?

    I've said it before and apparently have to say it again. No matter how many times you repeat your point, and no matter how many different ways you say it, the other guy is not going to suddenly change their views and see things your way.

    There are times when you're going to simply have to accept that some people may see things differently than you do and stop beating this thing into the ground. :sick:
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    '05 Smarts are not legal in the US unless they have been modified for emmissions (and I think safety). Zap is importing them and modifying them.

    However you cannot just import a '05 Smart and sell it as is.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070329/OPINION03/703290367/1- 148/AUTO01

    Even under a veil of darkness, the 2008 Cadillac CTS looks good.
    "Cadillac wanted to create a signature look for the CTS in the dark," said John Manoogian, GM's design director for Cadillac. "It was our way to put show car lighting on a production model."

    The new CTS, which will arrive at dealerships in late summer, will offer projector headlights, unique daytime running lights and a beautiful lighting scheme throughout its interior.

    Sophisticated lighting, refined interiors and enhanced performance could stoke Cadillac's resurgence as it keeps pace with Asian and European luxury carmakers, which have topped U.S. luxury car sales for years.

    During the day, light pipes -- a creative use of LED lights and a plastic bar -- will glow vertically on the edges of the CTS tail and head lights, creating a glowing slash near the car's four corners.

    But before the CTS can truly shine, the sun needs to set.

    As part of the CTS's optional performance package, the projector headlamps, which cast low and high beams, will feature an Adaptive Forward Lighting System, which allows the light lens to swivel up to 15 degrees in the direction the vehicle turns for better visibility on twisting roads.

    The tall and distinctive lamps look more like a glass-cut chandelier than a pair of automotive lighting devices.

    The slender tail lamps use only LEDs. Parlance for light emitting diode, LEDs have grown in popularity with auto designers and engineers because of their tiny size, low energy use and extremely long life. The CTS uses 31 LEDs in each tail lamp and 48 in the high-mounted vertical braking light.

    The CTS also has two lighting systems inside the cabin, CTS product manager Bill Mack explained. The incandescent system lights the cabin for more functional uses, such as when a door is opened, or if a button is pressed to read a map. The LED system, which uses 15 hidden bulbs for ambient lighting, creates a soft and appealing look throughout the cabin.

    Areas like the rear passenger foot wells and door handles are awash in a soft bluish-white light. A pin light shines on the gear shifter and six fiber optic cables illuminate fine lines across parts of the dash, instrument panel and door panels.

    "This kind of lighting is what luxury consumers expect in their cars," Mack said.

    Industry analyst Erich Merkle said he's been impressed with Cadillac's new sedan.

    "The CTS is a fine example of getting it right on all of the little details," said Merkle, the director of forecasting for IRN Inc., an automotive consulting firm in Grand Rapids. "The CTS is a splendid vehicle and exceeds what consumers would expect."i>
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    That's fine, but there is just one problem... Escalades, Yukons and Tahoes are not cars, they're trucks.
    ____________________________
    reference::::
    If you can see through the tint in the Escalades, Yukons and Tahoes in So California....
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Oh yeah? How much money have you spent on maintenance in the last ten years on your GM vehicle, compared to my Toyota vehicle? Keep in mind that my car isn't ten years old. It's a 2003, however it has 10 years worth of use racked up on it
    ______________________________

    reference text::::
    Only a FOOL puts his hand on a hot stove forever with "LOYALTY", and then is surprised that he is burned

    And only a fool will continue to believe that the stove will stay hot forever.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Can someone answer this question?

    Why would someone buy the DTS when they could have the STS?
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The DTS is an old-school FWD land barge, and I suppose there are enough septuagenerian badge snobs to keep it going for now. The STS is a very slightly larger CTS with a regular V8 available. I suppose there are enough people who want that extra fractional space or don't want to spring for a CTS-V to keep it going for now also.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,290
    Oh yeah? How much money have you spent on maintenance in the last ten years on your GM vehicle, compared to my Toyota vehicle?

    Currently I own two Hyundais (both 5 years or older both well over 100K miles) only one needed anything other than routine maintenance (one had an exhaust manifold crack at 120K miles) that was repaired under warranty. The other car I have is a Caddy thats only about a year and a half or so old with less that 20K miles on it, all I ever have done with that was change the oil.

    The last GM that I had I sold at around 150K miles and did nothing but oil changes, tunes ups and brake jobs (all routine maintence) no warranty work was ever done to it. The guy I sold it to drove it almost another 150K miles with no work other than routine maintence.

    I have a sister who has a GM with close to 100K and no issues with it.

    OTOH the last two Toyotas my other sister has had go into the shop for non routine maintence like clock work. Her current one goes into the shop for some type of warranty work almost every other month.

    So by your standards I would be a fool to buy a Toyota.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Yes, snakeweasel, based on your personal experience, if I was you I wouldn't buy a Toyota either. However, that's not the case for many others.

    Looks like you are one of the lucky ones whom got a problem-free CTS-V. By the way, what's the warranty on that? I would feel insecure to keep it around much longer after the warranty (powertrain) expired.

    Maybe you should use your good GM experience to rescue your sister from her Toyota misery. Why's she still keeping that Toyota anyway since it's in the shop almost every other month. Good god, that's 6 times a year. My family has a 11-year-old Honda Accord and 9-year-old Toyota Camry, those combined together were in the shop for less time than that!!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Maintenance? Probably the same if we followed the same maintenance schedule and had the same mileage. Maintenance = oil and fluid changes, brake pads, belts, wiper blades, cleaning, etc. I probably spend less on maintenance simply because I do all of the work myself.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The DTS is closer in size to my current car and they made the STS way too small. Don't like the fact that there's a V-6 in the low-end STS either. It cheapens the car. The only thing I like about the STS is that it is RWD.
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