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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    "I hate these alphanumeric designations on American cars. I want deVille, Seville, Fleetwood, Eldorado from Cadillac."

    I couldn't agree more. If I were to purchase a Caddy STS or DTS, I would have someone custom paint Seville or Deville below those logos.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    So the naming convention has changed a bit.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    In the late 1980's, Cadillac brought out a Turing version of the Seville, and put STS on the trunk lid. The SLS was used toward the end of the FWD Seville production, I think after 1998, perhaps in the early 2000's, not quite sure. The ETC was the Eldorado Turing Coupe, somehow this is not quite as clever as the STS for a name.

    Cadillac three letter convention is that the first letter is the series:
    C = C series (but could be C=cimarron or catera or Cadillac)
    S = S series (meaning that the STS and SRX are same series)
    D = D series (between the C and S :confuse: or = de Ville)
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The original meaning meant that it was the one to measure everything else with. In other words it was the one everything else should measure up to. The basic question to think about is this: should the standard of the world be a "sports sedan", a "luxury sedan" or a "super luxury sedan". For example, the BMW 7-series, or a Mercedes S-class, or the BMW Rolls Royce.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Mnemonics seem to have taken over our language. I started to build a mnemonic database for the communications and computer industry in the late 1980s. I almost went crazy. I gave up with all the uses for ATM. Anyone that can remember what they all mean is a better man than I.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    STS on your Seville means Seville Turing Sedan. Calling it the Seville STS is redundent. The Fleetwood Sixty Special was the top Cadillac in the 1950's. However, Cadillac was not content with the plain Sixty Special and added the Brougham to upgrade. d'Elegance interiors were available on de Villes too. The point here is that Cadillac has been changing their names for a long time. The de Ville name was first used in the 1950's and became a popular Cadillac model. The new three letter names are part of Cadillac's attempt to reinvent itself.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't much like alphanumeric names either but after seeing some examples of Dumb car names, it's easier to understand why the manufacturers use them.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Same with the Integra. What is it now?

    Cancelled. The Integra coupe became the RSX in 2002 and the sedan was dropped, the non-US Accord came in as the TSX in 2004, then the RSX was dropped after 2006. I think Acura would do well to bring back the Legend and Integra names; I'd rename the TL to Inspire (the Japanese version of the previous TL) rather than Vigor.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    However, Consumer Reports (CR being the most reliably trustworthy and accurate source; everyone knows this! ;) )

    Says that Audi has several models which can be recommended and garner tons of red circles/dots.

    They have shown a steady increase in red circles vs. black one's from the past. Year after year, the trend is upward.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    There is going to be a TSX coupe sometime in the next couple of years to replaced the RSX.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    What many of you don’t seem to understand with what I’ve said in my earlier posts is that many others and I don’t care how good a GM car will eventually get. Any car company that can make such horrible stuff for so long and desecrate the Cadillac name like they did doesnt deserve anymore of my money. All through the 70’s, 80’s and early part of the 90’s, this is what GM did-- make junk. Apparently GM doesn't care about it's reputation.

    It's a good thing they did have competition from Japanese and others, otherwise GM would still be making early 70’s technology cars, knowing how they operate.

    So while their cars have finally made a turnaround, it should have happened 25 years ago. Why they think they can sit on their complacency and indifference for that long is beyond disgusting.

    Standard of the World? Anyways… If they were interested in being standard of the world they wouldn't do things like put cheap interior in the one of two Cadillacs that sell worth a darn (Cadillac CTS, Escalade). The Escalade has better interior. Oh ,and how about the “nifty” seat belt anchor attached to the shoulder of front seats. Way to go Cadillac. :\ That’s not what a manufacturer does for world class design. Then they price the car at a world class price, when it isn't.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Car companies followed Mercedes and BMW's suit of giving their cars alphanumeric names because it makes the car easier to market across different demographics and countries. For instance, Coupe De Ville may not make any sense to people in Switzerland or China. Come to think of it, it doesn't make much sense in the United States either. What the hell does Coupe de Ville mean??

    Also real names like Nissan Cedric and Cadillac Escalade detract from the company name of the car which car companies don't like.
  • aldwaldw Member Posts: 82
    A good car deserves recognition for its own merits, regardless of what the manufacturer was previously, otherwise that type of stupidity will result in even greater product mediocrity than would exist at present. Whatever the case, GM is moving forward as they should be, and people will be better off for it.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I will point out to you that it is your opinion that GM was making junk. I owned a number of 70's, 80's and 90's GM cars and I did not find them to be junk. I would agree with you that the Japanese were making very competitive cars and perhaps they were better than GM products.

    I don't think that GM has really tried to make Cadillac the "Standard of the World". Cadillac did not enter the three Cadillacs into the contest for the Dewar Trophy. The Cadillacs were entered into this contest by an independent car salesman who did not represent Cadillac as a Cadillac dealer. If Ford had entered three Ford Model whatevers (a T?), they could have won the Standard of the World trophy.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Heck, I STILL own two 1980s GM cars and they are still going strong. Everybody seems to forget the biodegrable Japanese cars of the 1970s that would collapse into piles of iron oxide dust after two Northeast winters. My girtlfriend's father bought a Datsun back in the mid 1970s as a response to the oil crisis. He described driving the underpowered Datsun on the Schuylkill Expressway as a really scary experience. After three years, the car threw a rod through the engine block. His 1966 Ford Galaxie, however, still soldiered on until the late 1980s.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Lem, It's no use talking to him. I grew up in GM cars, have owned nothing but GM cars in 23 yrs. of driving, and NEVER had a major repair. Maybe he should change his name to GM buttonpusher ;)
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    can claim that they had a good 70s car. Those were the dark ages in automotive history.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,146
    I loved my 77 Cutlass Supreme coupe with 350 cu. in. Quadrajet. It cruised and drove great. It got good mileage compared to other cars of its time. Beige vinyl roof and dark brown lower.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    My 71 Riviera was not a bad car. Then I had a 76 Riviera which was good, but gas prices were going up. I also had a 78 Olds diesel which was not a great car, but not a bad car either.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Growing up my parents had a '77 Electra limited w/ the 403 Olds eng. in it. Only work done to it in 8 years was a Battery, heater hose, starter, and power seat motor. VERY minor stuff, very reliable.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I had a beautiful 1979 Buick Electra Park Avenue isn Charcoal Grey Firemist with a silver top and "Oyster" leather interior and the chrome factory wheels. It also had that excellent 403 V-8. I had absolutely no problems with that car. Unfortunately, I totalled it in an accident in 1989.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    OOOH, I had a '79 225 Coupe, with a Buick 350 (last year for) I wish I kept it.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    My Mom's 1978 Olds 98 was also very reliable. I don't recall my Dad grousing about any mechanical problems.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    SSSSSSSSSSSHHHH!!! Don't let mediapusher hear us talk like this, he won't believe it and make a stink to prove it. ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I had a light yellow 1979 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency with that awesome 403 V-8! Small world.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Obviously you all partook in better living through chemistry during the 1970s. I don't think I have ever been around this many people who praised 1970s automobiles.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I had good luck with a couple of early 70's VW's but got stranded a lot in a friend's Cutlass. That was probably a '68 or '69 model though. A '69 Bus blew its head gasket. Two '74 Volvos were so bad I pretty much swore off the brand forever. My '74 AMC Jeep ran good, but the gas tank rusted away in 3 years.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Had a 69 Cutlass as a 6 year old used car. Wonderful vehicle.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Had a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe as my first car. Purchased it used in 1981 and gave it to my brother three years later. My brother still had it in 1992.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah but that isn't a 70s car. The early 70s weren't that bad but cars actually designed and developed in the 70s... :lemon:
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Those big bombers were good cars... compared to a Gremlin or a Pinto. The build quality was haphazard, the performance was awful, the interior design was horrific, the material quality was dubious, the reliability was a joke, etc. As bad as they were, the alternative was a Monza or Chevette or a used-up, worn-out, base-model '60s car. People who suffered in those disco disasters on wheels thought they'd died and gone to heaven once they overcame their prejudices and drove an '85 Accord or Maxima.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I'd still take a GNX anyday over most new cars.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I dunno; I'd rather have a R32 Skyline or MkIV Supra or Z32 300ZX (since we're talking turbo sixes). Or a Falcon XR6T.

    Anyone think Cadillac will ever sell a gas engine with a turbo?
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I'm a huge fan of superchargers myself. Easy way to get loads of power, though they have to do more than 2-3 PSI boost. Oh look - we boosted the engine 30hp! Yet the same unit aftermarktet, people are getting 80-100hp more out of.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Turbos work better on high-revving engines thanks to the progressive nature of the centrifugal charger. Big old lumbering pushrods do well with a nice Lysholm supercharger. No self-respecting automaker should ever put a Roots blower in a vehicle again.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Superchargers also work well in small engines if they are designed correctly. They used them on the original Ferraris(and on a lot of other race cars), and they had 2.0L V12 engines.

    The closest modern equivalent would be something like the Mercedes Kompressor models. A great way to get V6 power out of a tiny engine.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Don't forget 2002-2006 MINI Cooper S...

    They have little Eaton Superchargers.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    Put a smaller pully on the s/c and make it spin faster ;)
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Cooterbfd-

    Perhaps GM cars have always been fine for people that are only going to keep their cars 1 or 3 years, ( I believe that's what their business model was based on for many many years), however most of us aren't that rich

    And.... I didn't grow up on GM cars. My dad hated them. He was always driving something German, whether it be BMW, Mercedes, Volkwagen or Saab. He didn't have anything nice to say about the Saab.

    And what does growing up on something have to do with anything? I grew up with Vaseline Lotion. When I got smarter and older, I switched to the lotion that Avalon Organics and Aveda makes (both have botanical as opposed to petroleum ingredients, they are of much better quality, they don't clog your pores, they have no artifical glue-like smells)

    _________________

    reference text:::::
    Lem, It's no use talking to him. I grew up in GM cars, have owned nothing but GM cars in 23 yrs. of driving, and NEVER had a major repair. Maybe he should change his name to GM buttonpusher
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Cooterbfd-

    If you've had good experiences with GM cars, well GOOD for you. I can only go by own experience and experiences that my friends have had out here on the west coast with their TERRIBLE products. And believe me, the experiences have been deplorable.

    One of the problems among many that GM has is they're too big for their britches. There seems to be a distinctlack of synergy with that corporation.
    _____________________
    reference text::::::
    SSSSSSSSSSSHHHH!!! Don't let mediapusher hear us talk like this, he won't believe it and make a stink to prove it.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    GM's quality is almost entirely dependant upon which model you are looking at.

    Anything that is sent off to the rental fleets are churned out with the cheapest components and engines that they make. The stuff that never gets sold to fleets, OTOH, is easily as reliable and nice as anything Toyota or Honda makes - or so close that it comes down to personal preference.

    It's really two GMs that we deal with - the OMG it's such junk low-end and the "really nice" top end - with almnost nothing inbetween. And the good/bad line sometimes has some odd areas where it takes a left turn, like the Lucerne.

    The base Lucerne is rental fodder and with the 3800 engine, nasty suspension, and a plain vanilla interior, it sucks. The CXS with the Northstar V8, the Cadillac suspension(same technology as they use on the Corvette - just tuned much softer), and a great interior... like two different vehicles.

    My guess is that GM has a couple of production lines set aside for purely rental/fleet sales. They make no money on these - in fact lose some, and so there's just no incentive anywhere to really double-check the quality. I'd not do it either if I were running the company(shoot, I'd get rid of ALL fleet sales entirely and drop all "base" models as well).

    Your friends "out west" almost certainly had the rental fodder/more basic boxes. Oh - this also holds true for Ford - some cars are utter rubbish while others are great.

    Take for instance, the last four cars my parents have had. 2 Lesabres and two Park Avenues. All four were top-trim "Ultra" or "Limited" models. They are/were indestructible and lasted 18 and 17 years, plus 12 on the current Park Ave and 8 on the current LeSabre. Very little work done on the Last two(the first two cost more to maintain, but the idea that they fall apart after 3-4 years... 18 years is a good run for any car.)

    Yes, the 12 year old Park Ave and the 8 year old LeSabre still run just fine with well over 100K on each of them.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,724
    Minor detail: Saab's are Sweedish, yah sure... Well they were Sweedish pre-GM! Your Dad sounds a bit like my Dad. Growing up in the 60s, 70s: Borgward, MB, Saab, VW, Datsun (260Z: Fab. Stanza: dullest, slowest car we've ever had. But, reliable), Renault!. He gave up on domestics in the early 70s. But he came back to the fold in the mid 90s. Only bummer was the (he felt) fun to drive but more shop time than road time Cadillac Catera. The Caddy that zigged, straight to the shop! His Chrylser Concorde and my mother's Sebring Convertible caused them no pain. But, he loves his TL more than any of the domestics he had. 'Till he traded it for a Camry Hybrid. Now all he talks about is how infrequently he has to fill the gas tank!

    In my 25 years of car buying, I had never bought a domestic 'till my '99 Chrysler 300M. Really enjoyed that car. While not as well built or as completely reliable as my Japaneese fleet, I really have nothing bad to say about it. But, I wasn't going to keep it past 70,000 miles. Traded it for a TL in '05. Fab car...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Laurasada-

    That's what I'm talking about, how can they live with themselves realeasing such junk :lemon: Cadillac Catera :lemon:?? How fast can you say, bland subpar exterior design for a Cadillac, and electrical system nightmare??. What's really sad is the rebadged Opel that they used for the Cadillac Catera is probably a decent car- but not when GM put their poison wrench on it. i know that was 5 years ago, but that's not that long ago by car manufacturing standards.

    Check on the STS-Is-it-good-quality board and see what an owner has to say about a 2005 STS :\.. Standard of the world... puhleeease.

    And Plekto, why in the world would GM even bother with providing rental fleets? All the financial mess they have with pensions, health care, etc..It's ridiculous.

    Hmmm, we (U.S.A.) have merely become the test track for General Motors. A sad state of affairs, but true.
  • mediapushermediapusher Member Posts: 305
    Plekto does Acura make a hybrid version of the Acura TL. I love that car. It's my dream.. If I owned one, I'd pet it every night. :)

    If I could buy one 12 years old in perfect condition I would, and I'd stick a new engine in it...Great cars

    PIcture an Acura TL gussied up from the talented crew on MTV's Pimp My Ride...delicious
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    why in the world would GM even bother with providing rental fleets? All the financial mess they have with pensions, health care, etc..It's ridiculous.

    You answered your own question. They have to keep people working or pay them to sit in a rubber room. At least if they break even selling to fleets they have them working and it is not a total loss on labor costs.

    I wanted to rent an Escalade this last trip to Hawaii. They were all booked up months in advance. They have a bunch of them on the Big Island. I ended up with the little TrailBlazer. It was a bit cramped when we had 5 adults and one child. Some body has to provide vehicles for the rental fleets. I see more Chryslers than any other brand.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Two points:
    1 - the Catera was a small part of Cadillac's total sales
    2 - I think the the 1999 Catera is the one with the electrical problems. I think the years before and after 1999 were more reliable.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    In May - not very impressive:

    http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=36708

    GM = up overall.
    Caddy = down 14.7% vs last May.
    Caddy = down 18.2% vs last Cal YTD.

    Not very encouraging...
    - Ray
    Seeing EVERY caddy model down...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I thought the Escalade was up this year over last.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    "I thought the Escalade was up this year over last. "

    Correct - I left 1 word out:
    Caddy CAR models...
    I suppose Caddy may see Trucks and SUVs as their salvation.
    Sorry,
    - Ray
    I don't............
    2022 X3 M40i
  • aldwaldw Member Posts: 82
    Here's a good article that touches on what American luxury was and needs to be:

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070601/FREE/70531001/1530/FREE
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