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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Have to give credit when credit is due, the new Esclade does seem like a winner from almost every aspect.

    My friend rented a new Esclade just not long ago and he couldn't stop praising about how comfortable does it ride and drive. The only beef he has against it is the cheap looking plastics all around.

    Oh, and this is coming from a guy who owned Mistu 2000GT, 330ci and currently driving a Porsche Boxster S.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Once again the most popular thing isn't always the best. In fact the most popular thing is usually not the best.

    Also there are plenty of people who don't want to drive a car that 51,999 other people every year buy. There is a subset of the populace that likes exclusivity and will pay for it.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I don't think the gangbanger crowd will ever dwindle enough for the Escalade to lose its popularity. And the NBA certainly isn't going anywhere (at least I hope not, with the Celts 7-0 and all, best start since like 1972 :shades: ).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Once again the most popular thing isn't always the best. In fact the most popular thing is usually not the best.

    Love it. I guess if you have to cut it down for something it might as well be because it is popular. :blush:

    Hey, they can always buy the GL or M class SUV's for about the same price ($65k) and be in the low volume exclusive club.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238

    Not sure what american will ever want to take his SUV around the Nurburgring. Not what SUV's are for.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, this is why European cars and SUV's are better.
    They are engineered for things that most drivers won't use them for.
    An Escalade can barely move in a straight line.
    It's steering,suspension and brakes are not capable for prolonged hard use.
    You could run an X5 around the Ring without it even breathing hard.
    that level of engineering does shine thru even in everyday use.

    Someone who truly understands how well European cars are engineered and built would never touch an Escalade or other Caddy.
    Cadillac has nothing to offer these people,just a cheaper, less well engineered car.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Uh, the Germans.
    Look at the fit/finish of a Benz, Bimmer, Audi.
    Look at the quality of the plastics,materials.

    Well the C-Class and 3 series interiors look spartan compared to the CTS. I do not know what you are talking about volvomax. Hell the S80's interior's you sell make the interiors of the Germans look like Kia Rio's. ;)

    I see you already have your salespersons hat on.
    Just because Caddy gives more of them away doesn't make it the best.
    No way an Escalade would ever make it around the Nurburgring.
    It's ponderous with a capital

    I agree with 62' ;) The Escalade, is rumored to come out with a performance version but it will not handle like a sports carand is not intended to. I think Delphi's Magneride, will add a little zest to it's flavor though. :shades:

    -Rocky

    P.S. I'd love to sell Cadillac's. I'm going to see if my trainer can arrange a interview to do just that. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well Delphi, is dabbling with advanced versions of it's MRC system. ;)

    -Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    hi Rocky,
    I assume you prefer the new CTS too! Of course the interior is much more classy, but what about that busy looking exterior, with all the new bling to the front grill? It is all a bit much. First generation will perhaps always be the best ever design, and finest example of Art & Science design. The STS as a stretched CTS is just a waste of money to me. For all that dough there are plenty of good alternatives, I would think. And style wise, it is just a slightly less attractive CTS. I also prefer the old size of the CTS, which was more than large enough. A good, smaller car, really fits our little city with old narrow streets and all those parking spaces, a skosh small. For this kid, there is nothing exciting or World standard about the new line of Cadillac - sorry. I did see the CTS-V race car on the track a few years ago, and it was pretty awesome. But that is about where awesome ends. The crossover SUV they have looks pretty good, so that is a, yeah, not bad rating. ;)

    Rocky, if you become a car salesman some day, be sure to memorize all the data on the cars. Seems like no salespeople these days know anything about the cars at all -- such a pity. If salespeople could only realize one other element of work, as in who they work for, as in me, the customer, then they pretty much got it down. Know product and work for the customer to get them into the best car. - Loren :shades:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Loren,

    I have learned so much from people like you. My edmunds family are my greatest teachers and I have each and every one of you to thank !!!!! :shades:

    Edmunds, has expanded my product knowledge and knowledge of the auto industry to heights I never thought were possible. ;) Yes while I'm a expert in General Motors, it doesn't hurt to know stuff about other manufactors for the used car lot I might sell from also assuming I get a concrete job offer soon. ;)

    The professional training I went through taught me the small details that most car salesman mistakenly over look or are just plain to lazy to learn.

    So I give credit to where it is due (y'all) and my 13K+ posts in just 2 years which might be a edmunds record might not be such a waste of time after all. ;)

    -Rocky

    P.S. Loren, you have some crazy eyes to think theold Art & Science CTS is better design than what we have today.

    P.S.S. "When you turn your car on does it return the favor ??? "

    Kate Cadillac Pub

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VekFRTiLQqw&feature=related

    I do not know who turns me on more ???? :P

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1029Zm9j_hM :shades:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww7997_YCB0&feature=related

    Loren's CTS for I-5 :P

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Any new "news" about the 09' CTS-V ???? :)

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Someone who truly understands how well European cars are engineered and built would never touch an Escalade or other Caddy.

    Seeing the trouble co-workers, friends, and family have with their European cars only justifies my reasons for owning a Cadillac. I never had remotely as much trouble with my Cadillacs and Buicks as my brother-in-law has with his S-Class Mercedes or an ex-girlfriend had with her VW Jetta. I'd also consider a Lexus, Infiniti, or Lincoln over any Benz, Audi, or Bimmer.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Not to discourage you, but I once applied for a sales position at a Cadillac dealer and they wanted somebody with at least 15 years experience in the field. Of course, that was almost 20 years ago. Things may have since then changed .
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Supposedly it's getting a "LSA" 6.2L supercharged mill, 525ish horsepower with an optional paddle-shifter automatic.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Things may have since then changed

    Yeah. Those Cadillac salesmen with long experience have all passed on along with their clientele.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    What does that mean? The Corvette does not offer the magnetic ride with the optional performance package either. I think magnetic ride is offered to make a variable suspension to optimize the ride and handling. One can get somewhat better handling (but not the best handling) without getting a harder ride. On some roads (for example washboard) magnetic ride would probably be very good. My SRX does not have a soft ride (like my 2002 SLS did), but it is not harsh either. I like the handling and I don't need to drive on washboards.

    Cadillac developed the computer control suspension for the FWD STS in an effort to make the STS a serious sports sedan. The magnetic shocks were developed in this failed project. The sigma platform was developed to make a serious sports sedan for Cadillac. The CTS does not use the MRC at all. The STS uses it only on the base STS performance model to probably keep the suspension soft enough for customers, but to get the handling up to the standards that the various magazines expect sports sedans to have. I think that the computer controled suspensions have limits to their ability to really adjust for bumps in the road. A manually adjustable suspension is probably best, but it would not do to allow a Cadillac owner to need to have to think too much.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yes it does, to answer your question of does my car turn me on. At least as much as did the used CTS cars I drove, and it cost me far less. I bought the Accord SE, which has the adjustable steering column, and much more standard features, with better interior quality than does the CTS, and it was $22.5K to purchase. Great handling and good gas mileage too. I do still like the CTS, and it does stand out looks wise. Overall performance is pretty much equal to the Accord however. I think I got a Cadillac for two thirds the cost. I noticed the new one is $34K+ which to me seems too pricey. This is getting into the price range of a BMW3.

    I think a smaller CTS, with the same engine, and smoother front, would be nice for say $28K. Something about the BMW3 size.
    -Loren
  • pmerk28pmerk28 Member Posts: 121
    ELadies and Gentlemen, this is why European cars and SUV's are better.
    They are engineered for things that most drivers won't use them for.
    An Escalade can barely move in a straight line.
    It's steering,suspension and brakes are not capable for prolonged hard use.
    You could run an X5 around the Ring without it even breathing hard.
    that level of engineering does shine thru even in everyday use.

    European cars are designed for European roads which are narrow and twisty. Try being the passenger in an X5 for more than 30 mins. The noise and hard ride grows tiring very quickly.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Saw a brand new black '08 CTS 3.6 (still had the dealer's tag on) broken down on Sepulveda Blvd at El Segundo yesterday around 12 pm (11/18). I thought it was a STS at first but was really surprised when I realized that it was a '08 CTS.

    Not exactly a good image for Caddy huh? I sure feel for the owner though...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    Probably out of gas.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    He was broken down on the left most lane (3 lane total each direction). I figured if he was out of gas he'd probably at least noticed it a bit earlier and tried to steer it to the shoulder.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Maybe it had a flat tire? :confuse: ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    It was probably on a test drive and the driver/salesman didn't notice.

    Maybe it had been stolen off the lot and OnStar disabled it.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Is that supposed to discourage me from considering another Cadillac? I'm on the verge of getting a new DTS as it is.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    I saw a red one coming from the other end of our road this morning. Beautiful and aggressive.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Must've been Crimson Pearl! I love that color. I had a 1994 DeVille in Carmine Red, another gorgeous color!
  • aldwaldw Member Posts: 82
    The Alpha platform Cadillac will probably fit better in that case.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    I saw a red one coming from the other end of our road this morning. Beautiful and aggressive.

    I saw a dark red DTS with tan padded top and a bunch of medalions perched on shelf inside rear window recently. (More often than not, these cars will have some type of stuff, usually baseball caps with logos, perched on the rear shelf.) A senior was parking it in a disabled slot at a suburban food market. I wonder how soon I will see an 08 CTS with a padded top. To each his/her own, but shouldn't there be a law against padded tops on decent looking cars such as the new CTS? ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Blame that tastelessness on behalf of the car's owner and/or the dealership that provided that self-destructive add-on junk. Cadillac should have a policy against the dealerships selling this kind of tacky trash. I wonder if Lexus, M-B, and Bimmer have any policy forbidding their dealerships from peddling this garbage?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I am looking forward to seeing what we get !!! ;) :shades:

    -Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I've seen a few 80s-90s MB with gold emblems, but never a vinyl/carriage top, cheesy wheels, whitewall or two-tone tires, etc. I could see some of that on certain Lexus models though.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Then you need to come to the city of Atlanta, especially inside I-285, and you will see more than you ever dreamed of...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Of which make?

    I should take that back...I once did see a MB with a vinyl top...it was an old W109 (ca. 1970 S-class) that my old MB mechanic was parting out, it had been crashed. The previous owner had put a very thin vinyl on the top - it wasn't even textured, so from any distance it looked like simple two tone paint. And of course there are many down-on-their-luck older MB with blingtastic wheels that weigh so much any handling of the car has been destroyed. But, not to the number of the Caddys, and I am far from Florida.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    do we need to have a totalitarian govenment perhaps, to prevent people from doing hideous things. and who is going to decide what is hideous...

    vinyl roofs do not look bad on some types of roof lines. In particular, the deVille's from the 90's had a roof design that looked OK with a padded roof. Color combinations need to look good together, which is not always the case. I do have to say that the 92 Seville roof line was not designed to look good with a vinyl addition. Back in the 70's vinyl roofs were a way to make more styling combinations available, and a lot of people from that era seem to think a padded roof is what makes a Cadillac a Cadillac. Perhaps these people should all be put away.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    It wouldn't hurt Caddy brand equity!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...a new Cadillac DTS Performance in Raven Black with an Ebony leather interior. My car looks very tasteful as it does not have a carriage roof, blingy wheels, or any other self-destructive add-on junk.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Congrats!

    Have fun keepin that baby clean...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Holy Cow LEMKO !!!!! Congrats on the DTS !!!! I hope you got a good deal on it pal, to pass up the new CTS.

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The dealer didn't even have a CTS to look at as they're practically selling as fast as they come off the carriers! As I was closing the deal on my DTS, a woman came in frantically asking if the dealer had an '08 DTS, but they sold out of them already.

    As for the DTS, mine was the nicest one on the lot. It originally sold for $55K, but I knocked 'em down to $43K and got a decent amount for my trade. I also easily qualified for the 0% financing.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    As I was closing the deal on my DTS, a woman came in frantically asking if the dealer had an '08 DTS, but they sold out of them already.

    For clarification I think you meant CTS.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I think very few DTS customers would really want or like a CTS. On the other hand Seville owners might like a CTS.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    originally sold for $55K, but I knocked 'em down to $43K and got a decent amount for my trade. I also easily qualified for the 0% financing.

    Looks like Caddy is pushing very hard to get rid of those DTS...

    Is 2008 the last MY that it'll be in production? If not, which year will be? I know the end is near for the DTS though.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Lemko's DTS was a leftover '07. The future production plans that leaked out have Hamtramck building the US-production Zafira and the Volt beginning in 2009 2010, so the DTS replacement (MY 2010 2011?) should be popping up around then.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=123654?tid=edmunds.il.ho- me.photopanel..2.*

    "Simply put, Cadillac has demonstrated that it doesn't have the cachet with enthusiasts to pull off that sort of price premium on its high-end models. "
    2022 X3 M40i
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I wouldn't say Cadillac will never have that kind of cachet with enthusiasts. I consider myself an enthusiast. Too bad Cadillac didn't already have a CTS-V in the new style. I would've considered one as an alternative to a DTS I ultimately purchased. Cadillac seems to be already doing brisk business with the "regular" CTS.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    There are 2 types of enthusiasts. One is into all the cars, likes to talk about car, loves to drive for fun and has an open mind for everything. Another type drives nothing but manual, complaining about the current 3-series drives like a Buick and would track his/her car whenever got a chance.

    Normally the second type wouldn't be caught dead in a DTS and for some reason I've got a hunch that that's the kind of "enthusiast" Caddy is going after with the V-series.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yep, you got a good deal pal !!! ;) Good job and congrats once again !!! :shades:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=123654?tid=edmunds.il.ho- me.photopanel..2.*

    Holy Smokes !!!! :shades:

    -Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    But this mystique hasn't stopped General Motors Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, a former BMW sales executive, from tossing down the gauntlet. The redesigned '09 Cadillac CTS-V, Lutz proclaims, will not only dust the M3, it will also "put the M5 on the trailer."

    Thats confidence
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