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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    "I agree GM could do better in their Cadillac interiors......the XLR in particular the interior is dissapointing. "

    The XLR needs to be updated as does the STS to some degree.


    I really like the XLR. I hope they tweak it a bit and make it even better!
  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    Gm marketshare loss was inevitable. This is a fact whether you chose to accept it or not. GM had 50% share because of lack of competition and the desirability of their vehicles. GM has better quality than ever but their share is lower than ever before so your argument that high share is ONLY related to quality doesnt make sense to me.

    Maybe losing some was inevitable, but losing the faith of the American consumer shouldn't have happened. Today there are people who have mede personal vows o never purchase a GM product. The fact that it even cme to that is my main point. GM isn't even in the running for some consumers and that's a shame.

    Yes, they are building better cars in some divisions, but it will take time to regain the faith of some consumers.

    I never said quality was the only reason they lost market share, but it's a big factor.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    but really most of the wealthy folks I know own Cadillacs. They are cheap and can't justify paying twice as much for something that isn't twice as good.

    So why, pray tell, aren't they driving Honda Accords or Toyota Camrys/Avalons? surely you aren't going to tell me a Cadillac is twice as good ad those 5 star vehicles. And when you factor in their horrific depreciation, a Caddy would have cost 4 times as much as my former Nissan Maxima.

    If they/you are stuck in GM mode, why not the equivalent Buick or Chevy instead of a rebadged, blinged up Cadillac?

    No, you aren't going to get me to believe that "very" wealthy people are using the left side of their brain in buying a Cadillac. And, in fairness, I'm not going to try to convince you of the same regarding my 911. (Although it has probably cost me less than an Escalade or XLR in depreciation).
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Maybe losing some was inevitable, but losing the faith of the American consumer shouldn't have happened.

    Bingo!

    Before serious Japanese competition came to town, GM was king of the hill and became dumb fat and way too happy. They created the opportunity for competition by basically shoveling the American consumer crap. The miserable experiences of my working class parents and relatives in trying to keep these damn vehicles from falling apart or rusting out in the 1960's and 1970's was pitiful. So, when it came time for me to buy my first car in 1978, GM had already alienated me by what they did to my family.

    Some might say I shoul put the past 3+ deecades behind me and get over it. But as relatively recently as 1995, I bought a Nissan Maxima at the same time a hometown friend bought a Ford Taurus. My Maxima is still going strong at our second home, with 155k miles on the odometer. His Taurus had major problems in 1999 at 60k miles and he has now been through 2 more GM products since. I could afford to "retire" the Maxima to our second home and get a 2004 Acura TL as a replacement. But he couldn't afford to hand the keys of a $20k car over at 4 years and 60,000 miles and get a whopping $4k in trade. Hell, my Maxima is worth more than that today at 13 years and 155k miles.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    A Cadillac is not twice as good as some other vehicle that costs half as much - the Cobalt is probably at least half as good @$15,000 as any $40,000 vehicle.
  • tntmythtntmyth Member Posts: 70
    Living in South Florida, we must be one of the top areas for bling bling. With all the doctors, lawyers, and other high powered execs down here, BMW 750i's are a dime a dozen. There are so many BMW's, and Mercedes that the German's seem to be the dominant nationality of cars. On a daily basis, I see ultra high-end, i.e Bentley Coupes, Jaguar Convertibles, Ferraris. Plus you have the old guard of Realtors. Most Realtors here drive something along the line of a Mercedes E-Class, BMW 5 Series or a Lexus. So, its clear that Cadillac is not the dominant luxury brand. Most people here, if money were no object, (which is isn't for some here) would easily choose a German brand over Cadillac. I would say that Cadillac has a long way to claw their way back to dominance.

    Personally I have not purchased a new American car since 1981 when I bought my first car a 1981 Mustang. My parents were Cadillac Sedan DeVille owners when we were kids in the 70's. In those days, the Cadillac WAS the undisputed luxury king, not counting Rolls Royce which was just way out there. And probably for 20 years, I have not even considered an American car. After having some very reliable Japanese cars, I just was not interested in what Detroit was turning out. Remember the Ford Fairmont, the K-Car, the Vega, the Pinto, the Cimarron? Yes, they were garbage.

    OK, that being said, My view has begun to change. Over the last few years, some of the American cars I rented when on vacation or business trips were pretty decent. The Japanese cars are also decent, but they don't seem as superior as they once did 10 years ago. And also, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura...are not so inexpensive anymore.

    On an emotional note, the first time I saw the 2008 Cadillac CTS, I did a double take. "Wow! That's a nice car!" Upon closer inspection, I even liked it more. "Wow! It has a nice interior too? And the in-car tech is also great? And it even performs well against some of the best of the Germans and Japanese? Is this Cadillac?. Hmmm." First time I sat in the 2008 CTS, I was thinking, this car feels like a $50,000 plus car, not a $40,000 car. So with a little reserve and intrepidation, I announced to my friends that I thought the new Cadillac was pretty nice. Would I condider buying one? Maybe I would. Why not? I was shot down immediately for making that statement. "Maybe good for me but not for them." Just not their image. "Old man's car" they said. Shortly thereafter, Cadillac started to come up with alot of accollades from the press and even Motor Trend Car of the Year award. The other day, I was at the mall, and there are three 2008 Cadillac CTS's on floor there. Red, Black and Silver. While standing there looking at the car, I noted some comments and some looks from other shoppers. All of them positive. Some teens and 20 something's made comments like, "Nice car!" and "I love that car!" Plus there were people of all ages giving the car the once over with nods of approval. I was shocked but I was also happy to see that.
    The point is that Cadillac has made some strong impressions. I can't imagine people in their teen's and 20's even saying anything nice about a Cadillac even a few years ago. They have a ways to go and may never be dominant again. But I hope that they will be able to soon be viewed my most Americans as a worthy choice against the BMW, Mercedes and Lexus of the world. I have been pleasantly surprised by what I have seen from GM with the CTS, the Malibu, the Enclave, the Saturn SUV's and the GMC Acadia. I think that many Americans are cautiously taking a step out on a limb and giving the Cadillac serious consideration. I hope that GM does not screw up these gains by turning out cars that have alot of problems and recalls.

    I won't buy garbage, no matter who is building it. But as an American, I also see that our economy is in a downward spiral. I would prefer to support American companies IF and I say IF they are turning out a good product. So for me personally, if GM is stepping up to the plate, and building what seems to be a world class car good enough to win Motor Trend Car of the Year and is good enough to get me to do double takes every time I see one. then I will consider a Cadillac CTS when I go shopping. I won't dismiss it just because it's American. Right now, it's on my short list.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    I'm not going to argue import good/domestic bad here (which I believe to be an incorrect broad generalization). But, to stick to the letter of the law, Cadillac appears to have last been the "Standard of the World" about 100 years ago. And, note, being the Standard does not appear to be for being the finest, ultimate absolute pinnacle in worldwide automobile brand-dom. Rather, back in the early days of the auto, Caddy did indeed innovate and was recognized with the Dewar Trophy. The "Standard" of this thread would appear more to be associated with the 1908 award as Caddy was recognized for "parts interchangeability" or "standardizing:"

    The Dewar Trophy was a cup donated in the early years of the twentieth century by Sir Thomas R. Dewar, M.P. a member of parliament of the United Kingdom, to be awarded each year by the Royal Automobile Club (RAC) of England "to the motor car which should successfully complete the most meritorious performance or test furthering the interests and advancement of the [automobile] industry".

    1908 - Cadillac for parts interchangeability. The award was actually presented in 1909.
    1913 - Cadillac for the electric starter and electric lights.

    And note that in 1906, Maine's own Stanley brothers were the proud recipient of this award: 1906 - Stanley twins for their land speed record in the Stanley Steamer

    GM is again doing some good things. But, imho, to the later Baby-Boomers, a real bad taste was left by the sins of the '70s, '80s and '90s (actually, I think it's really the '70s because they kept building the same cars from the '70s into the '80s & '90s! :P )...

    And, I'd have to guess that some of the uber-pro GM folks here may have some true tie to GM a la RockyLee who I believe has family that have relied on GM for a fine living for many a year!

    Ignore the badge. Review/research/drive the cars that interest you. Buy the one that best meets your needs/wants and desires! As I did with my Chrysler 300M and then Acura TL. Which both resided in my brick-front, vinyl-sided and now Mendota gas-fireplace inserted CE Colonial home's garage! Sorry, Hab1. The gas fp makes the evil wife very happy (so I'm much happier!), not having to paint the vinyl makes me happier and the brick front just looks kinda nice! But it's no McMansion, just a middle class home in a Frank Lloyd Wright-less middle class neighborhood. With nary a "Slade" (ugh) in sight!

    Go Pats!

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Not quite accurate: in the early 70's GM cars were RWD, except for Toronado and Eldorado. GM started conversion to FWD in the 80's. The big RWD cars in the 90's were left over from the late 70's, not the early 70's. I think that the problem cars were from the late 70's into the early 90's.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yeah but they cost you 3-4 times as much to repair and maintain so in the end it's a wash !!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    Fuzzy memory. I'm thinking of cars like the Cavaliers, Regals, Centurys, 6000LEs, Monzas.. Or the badly badge-engineered cars.

    Cars they just put new grills/vinyl roof/tail lights on for way too many years...

    And, I kinda like the XLR too. But certainly not at the ridiculous msrp. Had they priced it more like the bloated SC430 maybe they would have sold a few (more). Early Lexus lesson: Build a similar mouse trap, "bargain" price it. Get 'em on the road, build word of mouth (and great reviews from the rags) and hopefully the world (or US, at least) becomes your oyster...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    And, I kinda like the XLR too.

    Have seen a few on the road and they have attractive design. Were any of the Corvette underpinnings used for XLR? Seems like the XLR is way better than the Allante in execution.

    Presumably, all of the management that signed off on past Cadillac failures of Cimmaron, bustle Seville, Catera, Allante and other models are retired or otherwise left the company. With new CTS and other GM offerings such as Enclave, Acadia, Malibu, seems like GM has turned the corner in starting to make vehicles that people want/crave. Wonder how much Bob Lutz influence helped turn aroung GM "Thinking". If reliability can approach or possibly meet Honda, Toyota, then GM will be on course to gain market share.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Cars they just put new grills/vinyl roof/tail lights....

    Vinyl roofs. Now that's a memory jogger. My first new car was a 1978 Datsun B210GX, but before that, I had/borrowed my parents Pontiac LeMans with a vinyl roof. It was the perfect canoe carrier. Strap that bad boy on the roof using styrofaom blocks and you could pull down on the straps until you were blue in the face and had depressed the roof by at least 1/2 inch. Take the canoe off and, bingo, the vinyl roof popped back in place.

    I lent my canoe to a friend who strapped it onto his mom's new Buick something with a metal roof. When he returned it, he was pale. The car's roof had 4 distinct depressions in it where the canoe blocks had been. She had that Buick for another 5-6 years and I bet she answered the question of "what happened to your roof?" about a thousand times.

    I may not be a fan of vinyl siding on houses, but it did work well for canoe carrying cars.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The mid-sized cars (regals, century...) did get a new platform around 1990 called the w-platform, which is still used on the Impala.

    The XLR is basically a Corvette. The Corvette is selling well enough that there is limited capacity for the XLR. The XLR is a limited edition halo car and is not supposed to sell well.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,686
    Yeah, the XLR is based on the 'Vette platform. But tuned for a more luxury ride (softer). Different engine...

    The did cut the mfg. capacity of the XLR in half after the first year. Probably a combo of decent demand for the 'Vette and the wild-eyed pricing of the XLR.

    Lutz is a good thing because, unlike many who preceeded him (Roger Smith!), he's a car guy. Not so much a bean counter. I used to believe that was one of the big differences between US makes and imports: The domestics were run by finance/accounting types whereas the Germans and Japanese were run by engineers/car guys...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Having said all that, I posted that I think the CTS is a nice piece of work. I hope GM turns it around, a lot of good people rely on GM to earn a living. But that recall I (and others have) noted here, to most folks is SNAFU for GM. And that has to stop.

    Actually GM is the best of all major OEM's for recalls in 2007. Even if they sold the most vehicles they still were below.

    Gm 537K
    Ford 5,530K
    Chrysler 2,050K
    Toyota 573K
    Nissan 1,220K
    Honda 547K

    everyone was down for 2007 except Ford with Honda making the highest percentage drop.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,097
    Today I was out doing some errands while the weather was nice, and I noticed the local Caddy dealer finally had a couple new CTS out, so I stopped to take a look. Of course, 30 seconds after I stopped out of my car, a salesman was right beside me, and insisted I look at the one in the showroom - a light blue-ish completely loaded AWD model with a big 'sold' sign hanging from the mirror and a 48.xK window sticker. He wouldn't let me go without having a sit in it and checking out the gadgets, so I obliged. The interior is pretty impressive...excellent nav system, I like the odd climate control selectors, and the materials are light years better than the previous model. The big sunroof was pretty cool too. My only complaint is the fake stainless steel/aluminum trim...how much could real metal cost? I also liked how the seat cushions in the back are kind of recessed, similar to some 1950s-60s cars I have seen.

    Outside, the edginess is much more tolerable than on the previous model, and the intricate headlight and taillight details are interesting, although I am not sure if to my tastes. Fit and finish on this showroom car looked pretty perfect. It was wearing the chrome wheels, which I do not care for. One thing I did notice is that the front end sits awfully low...it will be a problem on steep driveways, so if one buys one of these used, watch out for that area.

    The salesman offered to let me take one of the cars sitting outside for a solo test drive (which surprised me as I was in a t-shirt and jeans...but then again I did pull up in a shiny Mercedes, so that might do it), but I passed, as I had to go, and I had told him a couple times that I had no real intent to buy, so I didn't want to take his time. He also claimed a loaded one as in the showroom could be had for a $569 lease, which seems like a pretty decent rate. All in all, the car should be a big success, it has a lot of jewel-like quality.
  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    I said nothing of the kind. I didnt know GM bashing was a prerequisite for this forum so I'm not sure why I am being attacked for "making excuses" for GM. I am merely acknowledging facts that many anti GM people chose to ignore. GM could have done a better job adopting the quality initiatives pioneered by the Japanese. They could have done more to stem the marketshare losses. They could have made better small cars in the 80s and 90s. Happy now?

    Happy? Why would I be happy? I don't win anything because U say they could've made better cars...lol

    That said, marketshare losses could not be averted and to suggest otherwise ignores the competitiveness of this market. If Toyota had 50% share in 1970 and then was faced with several major offshore competitors invading its market it too would have lost share. Have you not noticed the growth of Toyota and Nissan's lineups in the last 20 years? Have you not noticed new players like Hyundai and Kia and Mini? Have you not noticed that BMW and MB have expanded into the SUV market and the lower end sub $30k market? All of the foreign players have expanded their lineups and dealership bases in the last 20 years and now most of them compete in almost every segment. Toyota just built a $1B factory to build 200k Tundras a year. In the long run that is likely to lead to lower share for GM and Ford. Thats the way the business works. Going forward we will likely see Toyota start to lose share as Hyundai and Nissan step up their efforts in the US market and go after Toyota customers. The hybrid segment is a great example. How much to you want to bet that Toyota's share of the hybrid market will be FAR lower in 2017 than it is in 2007? Toyota dominates due to lack of competiiton. Even if every Toyota hybrid is totally perfect from a reliability standpoint Toyota will lose share as GM, Ford and Honda launch hybrids over the next 5 years.

    I agree with everything U said. But here's my point:

    Auto makers will lose marketshare to competitiors for a variety of reasons because everyone has a certain set of criteria they want in a car. Examples of what I mean are design, style, price, comfort, gas mileage, etc. etc. etc. But 1 thing that pretty much all consumers will agree on is the car should be reliable. If the car has quality issues they want no part of it and it will automatically be excluded from their list of choices.

    This is where GM dropped the ball. They lost much more than they should have due to many issues that include lack of quality. At least have a reliabe product that people can compare against the new models that come out.

    Hopefully the worst is behind GM and good things are ahead. But like U said, now that more car makers are on the market, things got that much harder for them.
  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    could not rememeber exact year. MY point is the same, Cadillac managed to outsell BMW, MB and Lexus for decades and yet people are hear saying they made nothing but undesirable, unreliable, pathetic vehicles until the 2008 CTS came out. Cadillac's record of success in the US is far more impressive than Lexus' 6 straight years.


    LOL Of course Caddy outsold these IMPORTS for decades, because these IMPORTS haven't been sold here as long as Caddy...lol

    Of course Caddy outsold LEXUS for decades. Lexus was only created a COUPLE decades ago...lol

    Caddy didn't have any COMPETITION for decades. And when they DID get competition, they folded like a deck of cards...lol

    How are they going to go from "standard of the World" to not having a car that can compete with the S, LS, and 7? These models have been on U.S. soil for AT LEAST 2 decades and Caddy still doesn't have a car to compete?

    Maybe the'll create a car to compete in the high end luxury market NEXT decade? lol
  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    "buick has more clout than Mercedes nowadays"

    Are you for real?


    I doubt it. lol
  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    However most of the very wealthy people I know still drive Cadillac's.


    How many is that?
  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    Some might say I shoul put the past 3+ deecades behind me and get over it. But as relatively recently as 1995, I bought a Nissan Maxima at the same time a hometown friend bought a Ford Taurus. My Maxima is still going strong at our second home, with 155k miles on the odometer. His Taurus had major problems in 1999 at 60k miles and he has now been through 2 more GM products since. I could afford to "retire" the Maxima to our second home and get a 2004 Acura TL as a replacement. But he couldn't afford to hand the keys of a $20k car over at 4 years and 60,000 miles and get a whopping $4k in trade. Hell, my Maxima is worth more than that today at 13 years and 155k miles.

    That's terrible.

    Kinda hard to put it in your past when you're still going thru it, don't U think?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Know pretty well about a dozen family's......

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I absolutely love the 1979 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham in the top picture! Its 425 cid V-8 was an excellent engine for the time. I don't think it should be included as an example of a bad Cadillac or even a bad car in general. Heck, even the 1979-85 Eldo shouldn't be there although it did have some pretty crummy engines during its run. It's still a very pretty car.

    The 1993 Allante is the one to have as it has the 4.6 litre Northstar V-8.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'm with you on that, rocky! I believe any car that costs more than my Cadillac DTS Performance is a fierocious waste of money. It already has all that I'm looking for in a luxury car and more. Heck, to get the same size car with the same features among the imports, I'd be paying $75K+ Oh well, there are plenty of dummies with more dollars than sense who are too worried about what their so-called snooty pretentious yuppie "friends" at the club think of them.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Sorry, but the Brougham and the Eldo are diesels. :sick: :cry:

    The gasoline versions of both were okay for the era, but the '69 Brougham was a better car at 10 years old, and a '59 Brougham (or whatever it was called then) was better still even at 20. I think that gradual cheapening and commodification did more to weaken Cadillac than anything else. Caddy was a walking corpse waiting to be picked off by Lexus and the Germans by 1990.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Don't knock the "dummies with more dollars than sense". They're the mother's milk of any successful luxury brand. Cadillac was top dog many years ago largely because it owned this segment of the marketplace, while Lincoln & Chrysler fought over the crumbs that fell from Cadillac's table. Cadillac's marketing execs would crawl over hot coals & broken glass to get that business away from the Germans, who own it today. As good as it is, the CTS can't bring in the dollars that GM needs unless large numbers of empty-headed yuppies can be convinced that they need this car to impress their pretentious friends.

    Do you think that any luxury franchise can survive if it attracts only car-savvy bargain hunters like you?
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    And I think anyone who buys the DTS instead of the Lucerne is wasting money. I can see that some will pay extra to get the snooty pretentious Cadillac badge though :shades:
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    In 1959 there was the Fleetwood Sixty Special and there was the Eldorado Brougham.
    60S
    Eldo
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I've been going over that in my head every day since I bought the car on November 23rd. I could've saved a lot of money buying the nearly mechanically identical Buick Lucerne CXS. I just like the Cadillac DTS' styling that much better. Guess I was thinking with my heart instead of my head that day. Of course, if I'd have bought the Lucerne, I'd see the prettier Cadillac in the other lane and I'd be like, "Darn! I'd should've bought the Cadillac DTS instead!"
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd love to have a 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham! One of my past girlfriends had a gorgeous mint-condition white one.

    I think the cheapening of Cadillac began with the 1971-76 generation. That was when real wood was substituted with acres of thick "plood" with Mediteranean accents, detuned engines, and general indifference to quality control. I had a 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. It was a beautiful looking car, but the 1960s Cadillacs were superior to it in just about every way. I think the 1977-79 Cadillacs actually improved in quality compared to their immediate predecessors.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I don't believe you- will you prove that GM is the most reliable brand in the world?

    Not sure about the world. I know of no data from a worldwide source. And is GM the most reliable brand? I would say no. Per JD Powers Buick and Lexus are tied for number 1(3 year old vehicles). Cadillac is just below them. The other divisions are about average for reliability.

    But as we have discussed before, quality is so close now it should not matter in a buying decision. I mean the average is so close to the best that who cares?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I was at the local Barnes & Noble and was thumbing through the latest "Consumer Reports" to see how badly they bashed my new ride and it turns out the Cadillac DTS is on their "Recommended" list. I thought for a second I was in Bizzaro World.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    My 71 Riviera had what looked like real wood trim on the doors. I am quite sure that it was plastic, but it did look nice. I think that the 71-76 models were good cars for the time. They were much too big in my opinion, I did test drive a used 73 Fleetwood sixty special. The downsized 77 Cadillacs were probably better in size and with the four door models giving up the hardtop design, were probably tighter bodies. The 70's are when interiors started the velor overstuffed cushion styles, which were overdone. Now interior decor has gone back to the 50's style - very plain and simple (too simple in the case of the first generation CTS. At least in the 50's plastic was not used.

    The engines had to meet the emission standards during the 70's. Electronic fuel injection was analog on those vehicles that had it. Digital fuel injection was developed at the end of the 70's and put into production in the early 80's. Digital fuel injection is what brought the performance back.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    While I have been thinking of a used DTS (depreciates like a rock) to replace my Crown Vic, a friend just mentioned the Buick Lucerne, which was not on my radar screen...

    Is your statement true???...is the Lucerne V8 simply a DTS without the status (and cost???)...good supportive seats, good multi-level lumbar supports (a must)...good highway mpg???

    I have been contemplating various SUVs for the last 3-4 years...I have finally decided that I should buy what I NEED instead of what I WANT...I need a good highway car that gets over 25 mpg highway (my Crown Vic never got over 20), and a nice comfortable car for those long rush hour drives...

    All the SUVs I thought of really get mediocre mileage on the highway, and I like the idea of a real trunk to hide my stuff...

    Now, if gas drops back to $1.50/gallon, I might reconsider, but, for now, a good highway car is what I NEED (as I wipe away my SUV tears)...

    So, you think Lucerne is a reasonable alternative to DTS???

    Thanks for your opinion (or the opinions of anyone else who cares to comment)...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd take a loaded Lucerne CXS with the Northstar in lieu of a DTS. It probably would've been the smarter choice if I want to be honest with myself. You can always opt for the less expensive CX and CXL models. I'd opt for the 3.6 V-6 over the old 3.8 in that case. Both deliver excellent fuel economy, but I think the older engine might not be a match for the larger Lucerne body.

    My girlfriend's LaCrosse with the 3.8 V-6 gets phenomenal fuel economy and is the one car we drive the most.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Were any of the Corvette underpinnings used for XLR? Seems like the XLR is way better than the Allante in execution.

    It is a vette underneath. Y platform.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    You can always opt for the less expensive CX and CXL models. I'd opt for the 3.6 V-6 over the old 3.8 in that case.

    3.6 is not available in the Lucerne yet.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    the 3.6 have in HP and torque???

    Having had the Crown Vic with 239 HP, about 225-240 in tork, and 20 mpg, I want something with a little more guts, which is why the DTS Northstar comes to mind...almost 300 HP, tork unknown to me, and 25 mpg highway...even if it only got 20 mpg hwy, at least I would have the HP and luxury to make up for the compromise...

    Does the Buick have a handling package similar to the performance option on the DTS???
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    3.6 in LaCrosse is 240 hp/ 225 tq
    in Enclave it is 275/251
    in CTS either 263/253 or 304/273

    The Lucerne CXS has the 275/295 northstar V8 with performance suspension. Base engine is 3.8L
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...a smaller car, you can always go for a LaCrosse Super with the 303-hp V-8.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    It's not unexpected. Consumer Reports likes both the DTS and the V8 (but not the V6) Lucerne since they fall into the sweet spot for what the CR crew likes in big luxury cars: soft, cushy ride with occasional pep, and otherwise unsurprising. They like the Avalon and Azera for the same reasons, and they'll probably fall all over themselves for the Genesis when that one shows up here.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The Lucerne Super is going to have what a 290 hp Northstar ????

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    they'll probably fall all over themselves for the Genesis when that one shows up here.

    I wouldn't doubt that !!!! I guarantee you Hyundai, is going to pay big bucks to get a favorable Consumer Reports review as a lot of money is on the line and they know the CR bible will appeal to the masses. ;)

    -Rocky
  • onlygmmattersonlygmmatters Member Posts: 19
    That's the only way Hyundai is going to be able to sell a Genesis is by paying off Consumer Reports like the rest of the imports do. I won't feel the least bit sorry for those people when their when their overpriced Sonata turns out to be another Korean :lemon: like the rest of them.

    Rocky, it'll be those Lucerne drivers who'll have the last laugh. :P
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Jeez, Rockson, if CR is so easily swayed how come GM doesn't bribe them?

    Hyundai doesn't need to bribe anyone, since a RWD entry-lux sedan with a 375 hp V8 and a $35k price tag will sell itself just fine.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Hyundai doesn't need to bribe anyone, since a RWD entry-lux sedan with a 375 hp V8 and a $35k price tag will sell itself just fine.

    Wow, that sound like a play out of Lexus' handbook, only the Lexus LS was $35K in 1989 dollars and didn't have 375 hp.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Jeez, Rockson, if CR is so easily swayed how come GM doesn't bribe them?

    CR, has built a reputation on loving asian import brands and since GM, is a domestic brand they will not take bribes from domestic manufactors. It would be against their company policy. They might not hammer on them (Big 3) to hard to not sound to biased once in a blue moon (which angers the masses and further stirs the hate pot.) ;) but the fact remains the accuracy of the reporting is so far fetched and is limited to just subscribers how can you honestly not take what they say with a grain of salt ???? :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Wow, that sound like a play out of Lexus' handbook, only the Lexus LS was $35K in 1989 dollars and didn't have 375 hp.

    I guess when you can work your employees for 84+ hours a week at a couple bucks an hour and manipuilate your currency you can keep your prices on the cheap. Well they don't have a fat cat problem either as they do jail their corrupt executives in South Korea. ;)

    -Rocky
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Yep, that's exactly what they're doing, and if the dollar continues its devaluation apace the V8 Genesis won't stay at $35k for long.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    But they went on strike earlier this year, so now they get a couple and a half bucks an hour. :P

    One of the interesting things about the Hyundai workforce is that they do work longer days than the UAW, but they also get longer breaks in nicely-stocked lounges.
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