Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Nothing significant from Germany? Only little gadgets like fuel injection, ABS, large scale production of airbags, crumple zones, workable ergonomics, dual circuit brakes, the list goes on. Crude and primitive? The S-class cars since the W111 and especially the W126 were the most advanced sedans in the world when they were introduced. The 107 and 129 SL cars were also very advanced, hence how they have aged gracefully while most of their counterparts looked ancient after a few years.
Don't ask for pics when the pics you provide are innacurate and irrelevant.
About 6 years ago, I spotted a mint '96 STS in a local dealer's lot. Dark green, with tan leather interior, as I recall, & with only 30K miles on the clock. Asking price was in the mid to upper teens. I was smitten, so I tried to sell the Seville to my wife as a railroad station car. (At the time, an old Taurus was pulling this duty; I've never liked leaving the BMW at the station.) Sad to say, the STS was gone by the time my wife signed off on the deal. What a disappointment.
I think the car you mention would be a W108/109, technically an S-class although in lower form can be considered an E-class. A 300SEL from that platform is certainly an S-class.
Caddy is today more comparable from a technology standpoint than at any time since the import competition for that customer hit North American shores.
Nope. I firmly believe that the only wood which belongs in a car should be a structural part of the body, and I think that only Morgan still builds them that way. Putting an overvarnished strip of whatever on the dash is silly, and putting a plastic strip of pretend whatever on the dash is simply shameful.
That proves everthing! I do not look at cars buy the status of the owner...good grief, Batman!
Here is a 1980 Merc 450 for sale with 105K miles for $10,500
Here is a picture a 1980 FWB (my dad owned the same color in 1984)...nice but the slowest car on the road and turn-in of a water buffalo. I wonder how much one would sell for today?
By the end of the '80's Caddy had lost all of it's luster IMO.
The point is Caddy was great during a long past era and now it's not. Period. The end.
Along the way, others have eaten their breakfast, lunch AND dinner!
Regards,
OW
I couldn't even get a CTS at the time as my dealership was sold out. Funny thing is, as I was closing the deal on my DTS, a woman comes in almost frantic asking if they had a CTS. Looks like Caddy's got a hit! Sometimes I wonder if I should've got a CTS as well? It's a bit too small for my tastes, but I really love what they've done with it. Trouble is, by the time I got a CTS outfitted to my tastes, I'd have probably spent as much or more for it than my loaded top-of-the-line DTS.
"If you were a Cadillac marketing manager & you had to develop an ad campaign that tied the new CTS to the one of the great Cadillacs of the past, which car would you pick? A timeless beauty from the 50s or 60s or one of the rolling bathtubs from the 80s?"
The new CTS fortunately diverges from the Euro-influenced sedan it replaces; it has returned to its roots. For example, there is this fabulous lighting that frames the interior door pulls and exterior lamps, giving the car a marvelous look that can only be a Cadillac. The interior is fabulous. The exterior is fabulous. The whole car is fabulous, unlike the first CTS in 2002. Since the only cars to diverge from Cadillac greatness was the first-generation CTS, Catera and Cimmarron, I'd tie the new CTS to any of the Caddys of the past, excluding these three models listed.
Maybe the '68 Eldorado Sinatra drove (but that car was considered a 'personal luxury coupe' not a sedan). Perhaps the 1976 Seville that got rave reviews. That would be this car:
It isn't the first time lesser GM makes imitated their upscale cousins. Early 1930s Chevrolets looked like baby Cadillacs. The 1940-41 Chevrolet clearly imitates a contemporary Buick.
What about the STS? Pretty much the same car as your old Seville except for being RWD, and you could probably have worked a good deal on a leftover '07.
2008 STS - 196 inches long, 116 wheelbase, 3973lbs
2002 Seville - 201 inches long, 112 wheelbase, 3992lbs
2008 DTS - 207 inches long, 115.6 wheelbase, 4009lbs
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/cadillac/seville/19037/specs.html
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/cadillac/sts/100886907/specs.html
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/cadillac/dts/100888385/specs.html
What I like about the SRX vs the SLS is the handling. The SRX is much better handling and will make a shorter U turn than the SLS could. The SRX feels more like a sports car by comparison, although not really like my 86 Corvette.
Here's an interesting point - I'm sure you've heard the rumors (or maybe it's even fact) that Cadillac will merge the DTS and STS into one car in a few years....I wonder the new one will be closer to the STS (196 inches) or the DTS (207 inches) ? Or will they split the difference and be back to the 2002 STS size (201 in)
But never the World Standard in luxury.
Regards,
OW
1. BMW 3'er - 95,980 - $20K-$30K
2. Lexus RX-330 - 94,164 - $30K-$40K
3. Cadillac DeVille - 61,739 - $40K-$50K
4. Cadillac 'Slade - 54,797 - $50K-$60K
5. Jag XJ - 9,590 - $60K-$70K
6. Merc S-Class - 18,082 - $70K-$80K
7. Merc SL-Class - 18,804 - $90K-$100K
Regards,
OW
For the next 40 years, Cadillacs came to symbolize American culture. The spectacularly vulgar be-finned barges of the 1950s and 1960s epitomized the country’s prosperity, captured in the 1956 Judy Holiday hit movie “The Solid Gold Cadillac.” Yet, the cars rarely left American shores.
Today, Cadillac vehicles are sold around the world, including Europe, Asia/Pacific, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.
The Cadillac CTS’s upcoming debut in Australia in October will help confirm General Motors Corp.’s determination to transform the once America-centric brand into a genuine global player in the prestige class currently dominated by the German Big Three brands – Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi.
Cadillac’s re-emergence in Australia comes after three failed attempts in Europe. Having rejected the first-generation “global” models, only now is GM Holden Ltd. sufficiently confident Cadillac can consistently deliver competitive cars and build a full line of models.
Total Cadillac sales peaked at a staggering 350,813 in 1978, though it was this very popularity that eventually diminished the brand’s image in the U.S.
In the wake of the first and second energy crisis, GM integrated Cadillac engineering with its down-market divisions. Over the next two decades, as the cars moved to front-wheel drive, Cadillac lost its unique styling, specific engineering and quality. Affluent Americans began buying European prestige marques, instead.
The nadir came with the ‘81 Cimarron, a 4-cyl. with wind-up windows and manual gearbox, the first in a Cadillac since 1951. By 1998, sales had bottomed at 170,379. By then, GM already had made the strategic decision to revive the once-revered marque.
The GM board accepted that taking on the Europeans and Japanese (Lexus) would consume $6 billion (in mid-1990s dollars). Most of the money was spent on the creation of the new large-car, rear-drive Sigma architecture that, for a time in the late 1990s, also was intended to form the basis for GM Holden’s all-new VE Commodore.
That didn’t happen, but Sigma did spawn the CTS in 2002 and subsequent STS sedan and SRX cross/utility vehicle. GM Holden looked at all three models before deciding Australian customers would never accept the poor packaging – one reason the platform was rejected for the VE – including the lousy interior quality.
The second-generation CTS addresses both issues and brings an increased model lineup that’s clearly intended to confront the BMW 3-Series.
Both the gorgeous CTS Coupe, seen at January’s North American International Auto Show in Detroit as a concept, plus a wagon version, are expected here in 2009. Sadly, the CTS-V that’s aimed at the BMW M3 and gets the supercharged 6.2L Corvette ZR1 engine, is left-hand drive only.
In size, the CTS is positioned against the 5-Series/E-Class/A6. But its base price just below $70,000 pits it against the 3-Series, as well. Australian models get a 3.6L direct-injection V-6 that basically is the Commodore’s V-6.
There also are plans to offer the new 247-hp, 406 lb.-ft (550-Nm) VM 2.9L direct-injection V-6 diesel, so desperately needed in Europe and currently being tested in the Commodore.
As well, there is the production version of the compact AWD Provoq CUV hydrogen fuel-cell concept unwrapped at this year’s Detroit show to demonstrate a step forward in GM’s E-Flex propulsion system.
The street-version Provoq will be built on GM’s Theta-Epsilon platform using a conventional gasoline engine and will go on sale in Australia in 2010. A GM insider says the Provoq will be built in Mexico alongside platform-mates, the Saab 9-4X variant and Saturn Vue CUV.
Cadillac also is planning to replace its STS and (stretched) DTS large sedans with a single rear-drive model. But instead of using the Sigma architecture, the new car is being designed and engineered in Australia using GM Holden’s long- wheelbase WM (Statesman and Caprice) underpinnings.
It’s possible the new Caddy, due in 2011 or 2012, will represent the convergence of the Zeta RWD platform with the more-expensive Sigma architectures. However, no one is saying so just yet.
This also raises the question of whether GM Holden is prepared to pit the new Cadillac model against its local Caprice that inevitably will be priced some $25,000 below the Cadillac.
Cadillac’s decision to base the new large car, aimed at the E-Class and 5-Series, on Zeta architecture was taken before GM cancelled plans to replace the Northstar V-8, Cadillac’s premium quad-cam engine, in 2009.
The new engine was killed after the auto maker realized Washington was determined to press ahead with a new corporate average fuel economy standard that calls for the U.S. fleet of cars and trucks to achieve an average 35 mpg (6.7 L/100 km) by 2020.
Even before the new CAFE requirement and the failure of the European BLS, Cadillac knew it needed a true 3-Series rival, a smaller model aimed more at Europe and other global markets than the U.S.
That car, due in 2010 in a variety of body styles, is based on the new rear-drive Alpha architecture and already is penciled in for Australia, as well.
Building a credible luxury brand in a sophisticated market like Australia is not easy. It’s taken Audi AG more than two decades to be a serious player. GM Holden (and Cadillac) must be prepared to invest heavily and take the long view.
Convincing Australians that Cadillac deserves comparison with BMW and Mercedes brands, and is a class above Chrysler, won’t be easy. Delaying Cadillac’s return until the arrival of the second-generation CTS reveals a realistic and welcome maturity.
“On one hand,” says Cyrus, “nothing sounds like a V-8. On the other hand, a lot of customers are saying, ‘V-6 is good.’ We get quite a good draw on it in Cadillacs where we offer both.
We expected to sell quite a few V-8s and smaller numbers of V-6s, but sales have gone the other way around, probably 80% V-6 and 20% V-8 in the STS. For the time being, we’ll continue to offer both and let the customer decide.”
We expected to sell quite a few V-8s and smaller numbers of V-6s, but sales have gone the other way around, probably 80% V-6 and 20% V-8 in the STS. For the time being, we’ll continue to offer both and let the customer decide.”
I don't think we're too far from the point where a V8 is about as desirable among trend-setters as wearing a mink coat to a PETA convention.
Looks like a late-70s Malibu with a Cadillac grille, emblematic of Cadillac's descent into irrelevance. Bleh. :sick:
Yep, and it didn't get the thicker Seville-like "C" pillars until it was "freshened" in 1980 or 1981.
The original Seville was based on the old Nova.
I'd say the 1976 Cadillac Seville influenced a lot of late 1970s/early 1980s GM vehicles. Take a look at the rather upright Seville-esque rear roofline on a 1980 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight for instance or the very Seville-like front end of an early 1980s Chevrolet Caprice. I, for one, believe the first-generation Seville is a classic design. It was exponentially better than Lincoln's feeble effort the Versailles.
The mid-70's to mid-80's were pretty much dark times for the domestics - not too many great or memorable cars really.
Regards,
OW
Yep- and it didn't get any better with the 1985 downsized Deville and the 1986 Eldorado/Seville....
OK, now I understand the question. Style wise, the E30 generation of the 3-series, which was sold in the US between '82 & '91, struck me as handsome, understated & overpriced. Although I admired it, I didn't fall in love with it & never considered buying one.
Overall, German cars were overpriced in the US market in the 1980s. I saw this clearly when I popped into a Mercedes showroom in Munich in the mid-1980s & saw a new 190E with sticker price of about $8K. That was just over half of the MSRP of a comparable car in the US at that time. Seeing that pretty much killed any desire I might have had to buy a German car. (Actually, we already had one: a 1980 Audi 5000, which was a both a wonderful car to drive & a maintenance nightmare.)
I agree with you: the 1st generation Seville was a classy, handsome car. I forgot about this car when I said earlier that Cadillac had lost its way after 1973. The 1976-79 Seville might've been the best looking sedan on the US market, irrespective of country of origin, at that time.
There should be tons of CTS and Enclaves on the lots to choose from. Instead, I see tons of Lexus, BMW and Mercs. Anyone get the same feeling here?
Regards,
OW
Now, I'm aware of the FWD layout in my DTS. Why did I choose it instead of the RWD/AWD CTS or STS? Well, first of all, I wanted a car close to the size of my former 2002 STS. Second, the AWD drivetrain would've been very expensive. Third, the FWD layout comes in very handy in the winter. I haven't the need to purchase snow tires since I bought my first FWD Cadillac in 1994.
"No, that's my Buick Park Avenue!" "No it's not, it's my Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight!" "You're both wrong! It's my Cadillac DeVille!"
I'm not going to bend over backwards to defend those cars, but they were sort of a victim of timing....they were designed with the expectation that gas would be $2 or $3 a gallon, which didn't happen until 20 years later....
Yeah, I'm sure a Ford LTD (Crown Vic) and a Mercury Grand Marquis from that era also looked a lot alike (they still do...)
But, hey, it was a very effective ad...we still remember it 20, 25 years later...
Yeah, the Buick and Olds used the same doors and roof, which limited styling differences to the grille and tail-lights basically. The 98 and Park Ave had the vertical rear glass, the 88 and LeSabre had the slightly raked rear glass.
You see, my family had many Caddys and Buicks. The problem is they are pretty boring cars IMO anymore than they were in the past. The BGN comes to mind for blast from the past. I remember when I didn't have a license and the teens back in the '60's burnt the tires of those real Caddy's for at least 60 feet from the torque from those great engines off a power brake. The steel on the body was bullet proof and the interiors were first class. Little by little, that went away.
By the time I had enough money to buy a Caddy, I decided on a 1988 Lincoln Mark VII. Great car. No Caddy in '88 did it for me. I also had a 2003 Lincoln LSC.
And so it goes....today, a BMW. Tomorrow, who knows? I still can't get past that edgy CTS.
Regards,
OW
Bumpy. Can you please show me a car from any manufacturer anywhere in the world that built a car as great and as great-looking as the 1976 Seville at anywhere remotely near Cadillac's $13,000 MSRP?
Didn't think so.
The step toward the smaller Cadillacs (Car and Driver called the 1986 ElDorado the "ElDoradoette") was needed, and the cars came out still looking like the luxury cars they were!
Smaller, yet still luxurious.
Like I asked the other person, can you think of any non-Cadillac, non-domestic car that looked and drove remotely this luxuriously at remotely the same price? I just can't!
You're absolutely right. I think the problem is, when you look at cars in this category, "prestige" and sportiness were in. You hadn't "arrived" yet unless you had imported things. Back then Perrier water was all the rage (Poland Spring will do me fine). That picture shows a fine looking, AMERICAN (personality-wise) personal luxury coupe. I remember seeing a 1986 Electra Park Av. coupe at a dealer. Beautiful car. Too bad they just weren't the "IN" thing.
Just not the same thing that German Luxury means.