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Comments
As for GM not attracting younger buyers, I was only 24 when I bought my 1989 Cadillac Brougham. I bought my DTS two years ago when I was 42. My girlfriend was 37 when she bought a new 2005 Buick LaCrosse.
Padded (car) bras are so 1985
For example???
Well, the brilliant car manufacturers have not developed it yet. Too greedy, afaic. The technology is there. No reason a 3-series should weigh 3,600 lbs and a G-8 GT almost 4K lbs. You can throw regulations at me and every excuse. The holy grail is withing reach to make an exceptional car that delivers everything you would need without the excesses that add weight. They really need to use the develpment of the Corvette as an example.
Imagine a C-6 with a blown 4-banger and weighing 2,900 lbs without changing anything but the engine. Not as much HP/torque but a bleedingly beautiful ride that gets well into the 30 MPG. range combined FE.
Regards,
OW
“No reason”?
Well, clearly you can reject regulations [ etc ] as excuses.
[ I’d bet every car manufacturer would also like to reject \ ignore all regulatory requirements, as well. ]
I believe that in addition to regulatory issues, customers have come to expect a significantly higher level of content [ amenities = more weight ] and chassis \ body strength & stiffness [ = more weight, again ] . . . for 2 examples.
One ** COULD ** add these things without adding weight, I’m sure – but there would be non-trivial increases in development & materials costs to accomplish this.
RE: Corvette:
I had a current model \ C6 Corvette Coupe for 2+ years.
In addition to extensive research & monitoring 2 Corvette Forums for over a year prior to my purchase, I studied most every detail of it very thoroughly – inside & out.
2 conclusions that I think apply here are:
First - A blown 4-banger in a Corvette would be an absolute sales disaster.
Second - The Corvette ‘pays a price’ for being as light as it is.
A price that makes sense to me, in a [ relatively ] low volume Sports Car – selling at a [ relatively ] high price.
The chassis & suspension of the Corvette, in particular, are intricately & beautifully designed & executed – as well as using lighter weight materials.
Duplicating a chassis like this for a 4DR sedan in your desired price range seems highly unlikely, to me.
Even with [ low ] weight as a very high priority, adding even +2 seating – and also producing a car that most would consider ‘rather quick’, with EPA combined 30 MPG, seems to result in something like the upcoming Lotus Evore. Looks like it will weigh just over 3000 LBS, but it is expected to cost something like $75,000. And those back seats still don’t really sound very appealing for full sized adults.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8092&page_numbe- - - - r=2
Your statements sound to me much like The Way To Lose Weight.
Eat less & exercise more.
Since one can state The Answer in one short & simple sentence, that means that The Doing must surely be simple & easy to accomplish.
And simply reject any reasons or excuses.
The statement is true.
But, for many, many people the Doing is clearly difficult indeed.
If it really was simple & easy to lose weight, we would not have nearly as many overweight people in the U.S. of A.
And if it was simple & easy as you describe to produce the cars your describe, I think they’d be on the market & selling well.
“too greedy”?
Seems to me that greed would result in driving the development of cars that would sell, at good margin.
I’d expect that a car as you describe WOULD sell – so wouldn’t greed dictate that they’d be building & selling ‘em???
- Ray
Confused . . .
I understand the complexity of designing and building a "perfect sedan". (The 3-series is real close, imho.) I know it's not simple but with the current tech., it's well within achievable...if an auto company REALLY wanted to...or they can use every excuse in the book to justify status-quo thinking. It's not only about loosing weight simplistically but rather creatively by effective design and use of new materials that achieve the desired results.
I would take a SC 4-cylinder Corvette with 4 doors in a heartbeat! (No pun intended, Heartbeat of America ). The marketing would be perfect...Z06 for Macho Man and C-6-4 for the Thinking Man...or a Lotus!
Regards,
OW
You really need to marry that girl!
But if Cadillac expects to have any credibility as a luxury brand, it simply has to win the hearts & minds of the buyers who have been voting German with their wallets since the 1980s. When these people see a Caddy with tacky dealer add-ons, it kills their interest in the car.
Let's be blunt. The sorts of people who find carriage tops & wide whitewalls attractive are too old, too poor & too badly educated to sustain a luxury brand. Cadillac has no future with these customers & it shouldn't hesitate to cut them loose. Let 'em drive Town Cars.
Let's be blunt. The sorts of people who find carriage tops & wide whitewalls attractive are too old, too poor & too badly educated to sustain a luxury brand. Cadillac has no future with these customers & it shouldn't hesitate to cut them loose. Let 'em drive Town Cars."
_________________________
Yes, and a brand that proudly builds tacky, impractical, GAUCHE, bling bling Cadillac Escalade trucks will never be seen as standard of the world. It makes most people that would gladly part with so much of their green for Lexus LS400 series and BMWs cringe with embarrassment.. These people would buy a Toyota Camry which is much less expensive before they spend their money on a Cadillac with these types of add-ons. But is GM paying attention? NO.
I have great respect for the BMW 3.
I drove a 335i the day before I bought the G8 GT.
But even the 328i EPA combined # is 22 - quite a ways from 30.
[ 18 city \ 28 highway ]
And the 335d is not quite there, either @ 27 combined.
[ 23 city \ 36 highway ]
- Ray
[ edit: I do wonder exactly what that future Caddy 3-fighter will
look like
handle like
accelerate like &
achieve for EPA #s ]
At the Auto Show, I sat in an STS...at 5'3", when I set the drivers seat, you could play professional soccer in the rear seat and I won't know it, with that much room...but if I extend the seat back for a tall person, rear seat room did seem to diminish...
It blows away cars that are more then twice its price.
Sadly, this clean one went to CFC, what a shame
Exploder in front of it looks like a 2002 or so model too.
I see a couple of S10 Blazers in the shot...I have no problem being rid of those. Those extended cab Ford trucks that collapse like pop cans in hard crashes don't warm my heart either.
I have to wonder about the defects or wear on these vehicles that makes them worth so little. If anything, it is a testamant to how well some vehicles age, at least on the outside.
Regards,
OW
Shame with that DTS - I'd buy it for $4500 in a heartbeat.
If it's anything like the DTS I had, it's in the right place.
I guess the stuff poured in a running engine ruins the bearings and pistons. Seizes the engine.
Ironically, some people have used the stuff as a block sealer to fix head gasket problems and cracked engine blocks, at least for a few months.
Regards,
OW
Exactly! Not even close to world standard. It's the reputation and the legacy business model that continues to drag Cadillac through the mud. Most aspects of the pricing model continue unchecked which will definitely keep it down.
Since the latest generation CTS went on sale in model year 2008, pricing has risen about $7000, Caldwell said. Higher average transaction and base prices means the CTS is moving into a clearer pricing position as a BMW 5 Series and Audi A6 fighter, making room for the smaller rear-wheel drive entry-level sedan on the way.
The SRX crossover needs no price cut to move off dealer lots but earlier this month we reported that Cadillac had a too-long five-month supply of the CTS. A price reduction like this should help maintain the brand's momentum, as should the $1000 incentives on the CTS sedan and wagon currently being offered.
CTS Wagon - Price Reduction
When you need to lower your price on a brand new variant, something is wrong with the decisions in GM to this day. :lemon:
Regards,
OW
"Cadillac is relaunching its certified pre-owned program to provide added confidence to customers seeking a used luxury automobile and help boost the resale value of Cadillacs.
"In the luxury market, pre-owned automobiles are often an entry point for new customers to the brand," said Kurt McNeil, vice president of Cadillac Sales and Service. "We want these customers to know that we stand behind the quality of our pre-owned Cadillacs."
Cadillac Relaunches Certified Pre-owned Program (PRNewswire)
Wow! What a unique concept, GM. Keep 'em coming!
Regards,
OW
Ya, because Bentley, Rolls Royce, Bugatti, Pagani, etc, look to imitate a bunch of blinged out gangsta schoolbuses and fwd couches with cloth roofs and wire hubcaps.
But, the arrogance at Government Motors never disappoints... :shades:
Besides, the Rolls-Royce seems to imitate a Kenworth truck nowadays. All the Phantom now needs is some chrome exhaust stacks.
I also needed to remind him I wasn't "part of the family" either. Seriously.
Well, clips from the wedding 2 weeks ago showed the RR in all its glory. As well as the jag-u-r. RR has class that Caddy never will.
Can a prestige brand even continue to exist when watered down to "off the shelf" parts?
Or can Cadillac pull off a hat-trick like Corvette does with its LS engine line?
And, most importantly, will the public even notice this landmark change?
The Cadillac Obituary
It may not be that big of a deal, and in fact has been happening for a long time. For instance, I don't think the compact CTS has ever had a "true" Cadillac engine. IIRC, it always used the 2.8/3.0/3.6 corporate V-6 engine, while the V-8's got a version of the Corvette engine. Similarly, the midsize SLS mainly relied on the 3.6 V-6. The Cadillac Northstar V-8 was optional, but I believe the 3.6 still accounted for the bulk of sales.
That leaves Caddy's flagship sedan, the DTS, which relies solely on the Northstar. And it's been selling in fewer and fewer numbers as the years have gone by, and I think they recently discontinued it altogether?
FWIW, Cadillac's flaship sedan went for a decade without a Cadillac engine before. In 1986, they wisely chose to put the Olds 307 in the Brougham, rather than the underpowered, unreliable aluminum 4.1 V-8, which was the standard engine from 1982-85. Around 1989-90 they started offering a Chevy 350 as an option, but I think only for coach builders and trailering packages. The Olds 307 went out of production after 1990, and for 1991-92, you could get the Chevy 305 or 350 in the Brougham. For 1993-96, the car was renamed Fleetwood, and came only with a 350. It got the hot LT-1 in 1994, which was the same engine used in the Impala SS.
I think as long as the car is still viewed as a step up in quality and luxury from the likes of Chevy and Buick, and if the corporate engines are at least offered in higher hp-configurations than with the lesser brands, Cadillac still has a chance.
My mother's LeSabre idles like it has rocks in its engine compared to the new CTS. Just worlds apart.
The King is dead.
Long live the King!
:P
What's wrong with that? Some might argue that "Petes" are worthier of emulation, I guess...... The new top line IH is pretty cool, too. I always thought the Deusey "J" had a lot in common with a Peterbilt . I'll take my tongue partially out of my cheek now.
Unfortunately, Cadillac is getting a little ahead of itself by once again advertising “Standard of the World.” Here’s what’s missing to substantiate that claim:
1. Sales – Cadillac is outsold in its home market by Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz;
2. Cadillac sells almost no cars outside the U.S. because no one other than Americans want them;
3. European brands including Mercedes-Benz, Audi, BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Maserati, Rolls Royce and Bentley are sought after and sold in most countries around the world. Mercedes, Audi and BMW each sell about a million cars per year worldwide. Cadillac sells fewer than 200,000, almost all in one country.
So to suggest that Cadillac is the “Standard of the World” is simply not true.
This is probably going to be called bashing but too bad!
Regards
OW
Do the hip-hop wannabes care if their 'Slade has a Chebbie under the hood? Do stop light racers mind that their CTS-V has a Corvette motor? Do DTS owners even know that the last real Caddy motor is under their hoods?
No, no and no!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93