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Toyota Sienna Uncontrolled Acceleration

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Comments

  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    Neutral tap meaning shifting into Neutral?
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    go to sienna acceleration and recall :mad: ,,the vehicle does have reports and history of crashes and issues due to acceleration...and also reports to the proper channels and still no recall..very scary and concerned about this...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes. You tap it up, a light touch is all it takes. It won't go beyond Neutral.

    Here's an image of the shifter:

    image

    Neutral is right above Drive, so one tap up, that's it, it won't accelerate. The rev limiter will even prevent engine damage. It would be loud (the engine would race), but you should have control of the steering and brakes to gradually slow and pull over to the side of the road.

    Try this on an empty street - coasting along at a slow speed, tap the shifter from D to N, and then pull over slowly and come to a full stop. Only turn it off after you come to a full stop (this ensures your steering and brakes have power assist).

    Keep in mind these cases are still rare, and in the one in a million chance yours is ever affected you would know what to do. And then a 0.0001% of injury would drop to 0% because you'd know exactly what to do.

    By the way - if you get a flat, a lot of people instinctly stab at the brakes, and that is absolutely the wrong thing to do. You should actually coast and steer gradually until you can pull over.
  • tsu670tsu670 Member Posts: 293
    Flxmom, I'm copying parts of some posts I submitted on the "Is Toyota on the mend for 2010" discussion (sorry for the length, but it might be interesting to you):

    #4629 of 4738
    Toyota lost a potential customer by tsu670
    Jan 31, 2010 (8:45 am)
    Toyota's ad in today's Minneapolis Star Tribune almost infuriated me.

    They continue to call it a "sticking accelerator," implying that the driver presses down part way on the pedal and the pedal doesn't return to idle when the brake is applied.

    But if you read the actual complaints on the NHTSA website (I have, and there are more Toyota models affected than just the 8 they recalled), you'll see that the problem is "sudden acceleration" where drivers complain the engine was going at one RPM, but then something mysterious happened so that it ramped up to a much higher RPM on its own. The pedal wasn't stuck from the last position the driver pressed it to; the vehicle actually bolted to a much higher speed into the sky blue yonder without any driver input.

    Toyota had the highest number of sudden acceleration complaints of all makes since 2008. Ford was second.

    No, I'm not an engineer, but it only took a few hours of research to be convinced that the problem is Toyota's throttle-by-wire sensors and computer controls, not sticking pedals or sliding floor mats. If Toyota says they are using shims for the accelerator pedal fix, they are fixing a mechanical problem that doesn't exist. They should be fixing an electrical/computer problem. And they should add an electrical/computer override of the throttle-by-wire accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed like other car builders.

    I was really interested in Toyota's new 2011 Sienna minivan that will be soon arriving in dealer stores. Yes, I know it was not on the list of models recalled, but it should be since the Sienna, too, has complaints filed with NHTSA for sudden acceleration (yep, I checked). And the latest specs published by Toyota say nothing about a "brake override of the electronic accelerator" feature on the 2011 version.

    Is Toyota on the mend for 2010? Not hardly. Not when it insults the intelligence of its customers by refusing to use the words "sudden acceleration," but instead says "sticking accelerator pedals in some of our models" which are caused first by driver error, then by incorrectly installed floor mats, and now by a faulty accelerator pedal that just needs a shim and all will be better.

    IMHO, Toyota owners will remain as much at risk after this latest "fix" as they are now and were a couple of months ago after floor mats were adjusted. I fear the company will continue on a downhill spiral unless and until it does the right thing and installs an electronic override of the computerized throttle-by-wire accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed on ALL of its models that have throttle-by-wire accelerator systems.

    Otherwise, if the bad publicity doesn't do the company in, the lawsuits will.

    #4680 of 4736
    Re: Toyota lost a potential customer [tsu670] by tsu670
    Feb 01, 2010 (6:57 am)
    CNNMoney reported today that "[ToyotaUSA President Jim] Lentz said he is confident that resolving this issue and the floormat entrapment problem will solve the problem for Toyota. The automaker has also said it is making "brake override" -- a system that cuts engine power to the wheels as soon as the brake pedal is pressed -- standard equipment on all of its cars.

    The "brake override" software will also be added to the internal computers on some cars as they are brought in for recall repairs, a Toyota spokesman said."
    Toyota announces gas pedal fix

    #4691 of 4736
    Re: Toyota lost (may have gained back) a potential customer [imidazol97] by tsu670
    Feb 01, 2010 (9:12 am)
    Thing is, should we be bashing Toyota for the sake of what we perceive as justice, or should be we bashing Toyota until the company comes around and finally does the right thing? If the CNN story is correct in its statement that Toyota will, indeed, be adding an override of the electronic throttle when the brake pedal is depressed, then maybe we should be satisfied that the company is coming around after all.

    But that isn't the end of it, is it? In fact, it might be just the beginning of something much bigger.

    I am the original owner of a 2008 Toyota 4Runner, a year and model that was not included in any of the accelerator recalls. I've noticed on occasion that the RPM surges by 200 to 300 for a second or two when standing at a red light. In checking the NHTSA database, I see there is a similar complaint filed (I haven't filed a complaint yet, but will). With all of the reading I've done in the past week, I'm thinking I might have one of those Toyotas that could also bolt by itself into the wild blue yonder some day. Should the owner who filed the NHTSA complaint, me and other owners of 4Runners with throttle-by-wire be entitled to the brake override fix? I think we should, but what kind of battle will we all have with Toyota to get it?

    Those who have suffered damages from sudden unintended acceleration can fight their battles in court or otherwise find settlements with Toyota. For families who suffered injuries or lost loved ones because of this tragic defect, our sincerest condolences and best wishes in your quest for deserved justice.

    But for the rest of us, the challenge will be to make sure the company makes the right fix, in a timely manner, and to ALL affected vehicles, not just the ones Toyota decided to include on its list; and to make said fix before we, too, are included among those families who have already experienced damages, injuries or deaths.

    I'm willing to support the folks at Toyota in their effort to do just that, but will be critical of them if they don't. -end of post.

    Flxmom, I understand later this month, like maybe February 25th or so, Congress will be holding hearings about this issue. I did some digging around, and it looks like the person to send your concerns to is (if someone finds out differently, please let me know):
    Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI), chair of the Subcommittee of Oversight and Investigation
    http://www.house.gov/stupak/
    Pull down the "Contact" menu near the top and click "e-mail Bart". Fill in the form with your name and other information, then compose your message in the box provided. When you send your e-mail it will probably come back with something like "Since you don't live in my district I can't respond to your e-mail," but I think your message will get through to him anyway. All the best, Ken.
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    With all due respect - you're freaking out. Put the car in neutral - worst thing that happens is the engine revs really high, but you wont crash.

    This is the standard limitation of the human brain - improper risk assessment. We freak out when we see some longshot chance of dying and assume that it will happen to us, but we underestimate common things. Did you exercise today? Did you eat a Big Mac? Did you drive ANY car around the neighborhood? Did you cross a busy street?

    I'd guess there are many ways which give you a much greater chance of dying than this Toyota sudden accel thing.....ESPECIALLY if you don't freak out and just be prepared should it ever happen.
  • sixthgearsixthgear Member Posts: 1
    Sorry Hogan773 - It actually IS a big deal. There have been over 2000 occurrences of Toyotas suddenly accelerating, Without the fix, the answer is to (a) drop into neutral AND (b) switch off the ignition. Doing that causes the driver to lose power steering. If you are going 65-70 MPH and suddenly accelerate PAST that speed and then to regain control of your vehicle you have to lose power steering it's what I would consider NOT a safe, simple solution.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, I'd skip step (b).

    The rev limiter will protect the engine. Only switch off the ignition after you have left the road and parked.

    Just put it in Neutral, then pull over.
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    Thank You tsu670...I wonder what Toyota will do when I go to the dealer and ask for the " brake override software", they will say my van has not been recalled, but it should be since it too has had numerous rapid and uncontrolled acceleration !
    Also If I put the gear into Neutral will the brakes then work? Maybe Maybe not...?
    Its scary,,no other way to say it..I am on edge driving my vehicle now, every time I am in the car, and when I am on the high speed roads passing trucks and the like, its going to be very stressful, I have two kids,,!
    I believe Toyota has not been forth coming and its making me very angry. I am now questioning even why this van was turned in after only 20,000 miles, they said the owner wanted a different make, but ya never know..
    There was another person who had the same issues with her rav 4 and her year wasn't recalled !
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    So where is the proof that only vehicles with this pedal have this Acceleration issue? Is this really true or not? Does it have anything to do with the pedal and the system connected to this specific make of pedal? How to find out, since the dealers are not forth coming or just dont know them selves and Toyota is not telling the whole story or truth..
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    I am freaking out on the inside, I will not on the outside, its normal to feel this stress and anxiety in a situation where you never know if your vehicle is going to take on a mind of its own, knowing that its brothers have quite often ,,I am ready to do the neutral thing but its scary despite it, and if this happens it could be horrible no matter if I do the neutral thing or not..this is a very bad thing :mad:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The brake ought to work because at that point you're not fighting against the power of the engine. Also, you can slowly coast to the shoulder.

    What might put your mind at ease is that Toyota is under the microscope right now, so whatever problems do exist will have to be addressed, whether they are cooperative (voluntarily) or not (NHTSA-forced recall).
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    Yes if there is a shoulder to coast to, passing a truck or vehicle on the left at a high speed and this happening is not a good scenario ,,I will do it but , in a perfect scenario its sounds easy and safe and simple, the truth is,,it could be devastating thats the truth..I wonder what my dealer will say when I go in and tell them I want my vehicle fixed with an override system even tho its not on the recall, even when I have proof there is an issue with the Sienna and its been documented...
  • jjllcaljjllcal Member Posts: 31
    I have a 2004 sienna LE... this are the problems that we have since we have the van.
    List of problem
    1) Gas lick (flooded to ground) after replacing the fuel tank.. took them 2 weeks to fix.
    2) Driver side front door has popping sound - welding problem- initially they refuse to fix until the recall got in.
    3) Driver side sit belt not easily release - wants $300 to fix .. Safty issue? Not fix yet.
    4) Steering wheel arm cushion broke - bad for driving and alingment- cost $700.00
    5) Passenger automatic door broke - require 800+ to fix claiming motor problem. took it to a independent auto shop , fix it for $200.00. The cushion of the arm that hold the door worn off and therefore the door is scratching the side of the car.
    6) It looks like that the there is a yellow residue on the radio led window.. electrical shortage?
    6) the most current one... I do not know whether it is related to rain or not.
    it happen 2 times last week ( before the recall), It is very hard to turn my steering wheel when I am in drive mode, have to restart the car to solve this problem. I am lucky that both incident happened in parking lots. I believe there is major issue with the electrical system. I took it to a automobile repair shop. The owner show me a list of recalls or notifications for the 2004 model ( maybe around 20 to 30) . And he said one of the notification may be related to the problem i have. My question is how come I, as the owner of the van were not notified, because the recall or notification were issued in 2004 and it clearly stated that, repair only if under the 30000, 3 years warranty if the owner complaint about it. If they knew the problem, why don't they inform the owner to check out whether their van has that problem instead of wait till some accident to happen first.

    Is there any repair shop owner willing to list all the problems of the sienna.
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    #382 of 387 We need advice by greennovice Feb 02, 2010 (7:53 am) Save | Reply
    We ordered a 2010 Prius and the day before we were to pick it up the recall announcement was made. We were so relieved that the Prius was not on the list. But the morning we were to pick it up we saw a report of a Prius owner experiencing the unintended acceleration problem in 2006 and of course that caused us serious concern. We began researching right away.

    We learned that there have been 21 vehicle acceleration complaints about the 2010 Prius that have been reported to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. We think most may have to do with the dual brake systems and the weird felling that occurs when you hit a pothole or man hole cover and the brake shifts to the ABS system. But other reports are not that easily explained. We read the FAQ page on Toyota's website and called the Toyota Customer Service number to ask a specific question -- Why did Toyota conclude that the Prius does not have an acceleration problem and should not be included on the recall or sales/manufacturing freeze? We did not get a direct answer, but rather the person just reiterated what was on the FAQ page, i.e. that Toyota is confident that all affected models have been identified and other models are not affected. I also spoke with someone at the NHTSA, but the person could not answer my question directly either. That really didn't reassure us.

    From our research it appears there have been three separate possible causes identified concerning the unwanted acceleration problem -- 1) pedal entrapment caused by floor mats; a sticking pedal caused by mechanical problems with the pedal itself; and 3) electronic or computer program malfunctions. We are not concerned about the floor mat issue. With respect to the pedal, it is our understanding that the Prius does not have the same pedal as the models Toyota has identified as having the problem. We think this is probably why Toyota decided not to include the Prius among the affected models.

    This would have alleviated our concerns, except for the fact that the problem has been reported by Prius owners. When I asked the Toyota person about the possibility of an electronic or computer problem, she offered no response. When I asked the person at NHTSA, he said both the pedal and the electronic/computer systems are being investigated. When I asked him when they might have an answer, his response was that they would know when they got a report from Toyota. However, from my call with Toyota it appears that Toyota has concluded that the problem is caused by the pedal and is not investigating the electronic/computer issue.

    In a nutshell, our concern is that there may, in fact, be a problem with the electronic or computer system that affects the Prius. From what we've read/seen, it sounds like the fix for such a problem is an override whereby applying the brake cuts off the accelerator. We have been told by the dealer that the 2010 Prius has such an override, but it is not referenced in any written materials the dealer can show us. But assuming it has the brake override, is that sufficient to make the car safe from unwanted acceleration problems? We're not engineers, so we can only rely on Toyota or others to help us evaluate this.

    The bottom line is that we really want to buy the car. When we picked the Prius after a month of research and shopping we really didn't have a second choice. And we got 3.65% financing that won't last indefinitely. The question is -- should we buy the Prius or would we be stupid to do so in light of the uncertainty about the electronic/computer system? We need to make our decision and every time we decide to go ahead with our purchase, another anecdotal report comes out. This morning it was that the owner of a Sienna, another model not included, was killed in an unintended acceleration crash.

    Help -- any thoughts are
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    Sounds like it would be better for you if you sold the Sienna - sounds like you're a nervous wreck every time you drive, and that can't be good for your safety either. Being overly stressed every time you're driving will take a toll on your alertness and sanity.

    To me the biggest concern is a fender bender prospect that seems to have happened often - ie the car just lurches and you hit your garage or a car in a parking lot. If I'm on the highway going 65 and the car starts accelerating without my command, I'll feel it right away and realistically it won't be going more than 75 or 80 by the time I process the situation and take action - this is a minivan and not a Porsche - it doesnt move THAT quickly. And to say "if I put it in neutral will the brakes work? maybe not" -- unless the whole car has electrical gremlins, then YES the power brakes will still work (the engine is on, after all). So put it in neutral - the engine will rev up and hopefully will stop at the redline but in any case it doesnt matter, and calmly decelerate the car.

    Does anyone know WHY the off-duty patrolman had time to be calling on cellphone etc but didnt think to shift to neutral? Or turn off the car? (I think on the latter I recall that maybe his car was one of the pushbutton starts, and therefore he didnt have the presence of mind to hold it down for 3+ seconds.....) I'm not passing judgment on him because in pressure situations the brain can forget even the most basic things - that's why pilots drill over and over on procedures so they're not really thinking - they're just "doing" - in an emergency.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    pilots drill over and over on procedures so they're not really thinking - they're just "doing" - in an emergency

    That's why I recommend practicing the Neutral trick. That can help prevent panic.

    True story...

    A while ago we went to Florida on vacation with another family, visited another friend that has a pool. One of the children from the other family accidentally fell in the pool, with shoes on, about 4-5 years old. The parents screamed and panicked - but took no action.

    I was calm and dove in to the pool and immediately pulled the child to safety. I can't explain why I was so calm when everyone else was screaming, parental instincts differ I guess.

    Sadly people drown in pools every year, but with proper supervision and calm reactions to emergencies, that can fortunately be prevented.

    The little boy was fine.

    My BlackBerry, on the other hand... :D
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    I am ready and practiced, I have had close calls driving , things in the road hitting my vehicle , gettting stuck in the wheel on the thruway, a semi blowing its tire while passing me, shrapnel all over my van , a huge herd of deer jumping over, in front of me..bad drivers etc and did remain calm...but this whole deal just doesn't sit well with me..Thanks for your help !
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You've had some pretty tough breaks! :sick:

    Let's hope you've already had more than your share of bad luck. These occurences are still relatively rare.
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    Wow - sounds like those other things make an unintended acceleration look like peanuts.

    Want to know how many kids will die today in some freak accident that nobody could have predicted? No you don't, because it will just make you sick. That's why I hate our TV news - nothing but 1/2 hour of fires, earthquakes, shootings, chokings, molestations, etc. Oh yeah plus weather and sports at 25 past the hour.....
  • kellermallenkellermallen Member Posts: 2
    I had the same experience as the original poster of this thread in my 2006 Sienna. On June 9, 2009, I was making a sharp and slow right-hand turn into my parking spot at work, when the car accelerated at full throttle and smashed into the wall. The front bumper was heavily damaged and I had a decent case of whiplash; fortunately, no one else was hurt.

    At the time, I thought maybe I had mistakenly pushed the gas pedal instead of the brake pedal. When news of the recall first came out, I was glad to know that it may not have been a mistake on my part, after all. After reading this thread, I, too, am angry that Toyota hasn't included the Sienna in the recall (and that the gas pedal fix may not even solve the problem in the first place). I'm heading over to the NHTSA site to file a complaint right now.

    And, of course, I'm wondering what to do with my van. I don't feel entirely safe driving it, but it is paid off and I don't want to take on a car payment for a new vehicle right now either. *sigh*
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    You know, the more I read these first-hand accounts, the more skeptical I become about this Toyota fix. Seems to be lots of slow moving lurches, in parking lots, garages, etc. I don't understand how if you are driving forward slowly that a STUCK PEDAL all of the sudden results in a super acceleration forward. I mean, you were likely not even on the gas as you were turning into the space? Or did you apply some gas, and then when you let off the pedal you were surprised when the car continued moving forward (with a stuck pedal) rather than decelerating like it should without gas?

    Sounds like electronic throttle issues could be at play and that's something that Toyota is keeping mum about it seems.
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    A local guy had an incident in his Toyota truck on the expressway last nite, it acclerated and the dashboard also went dark he ended up driving off the road and crashed, the air bag didnt even go off and he was going fast, he walked away unharmed but his truck is totalled...This was in Rochester NY
  • tsu670tsu670 Member Posts: 293
    Those of you who have vehicles on the recall list:

    Would you please get back to us as to what was actually done? I've read numerous accounts where Toyota is installing a brake override of the electronic throttle control system (ETCS) on all of its new vehicles at the various factories, and on vehicles that were part of the floor mat recall. Not sure about the sticking pedal recall.

    Whichever recall your vehicle is in, would you please check to see if you got the brake override fix? Thanks!!
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    Just got this off the other thread about Toyotas recalls...

    Wow, what a shocker...get ready for this whole thing to snowball...

    Everyone - this is not good for Toyota. These below News Releases just hit now. I was listening to CNN - and they flashed across the screen.

    Government Safety Agency Secretary Mr. LaHood publicly did interview with AP & claims Toyota stalled doing anything. US government had to fly to Japan to make them do recall. LaHood claims NHTSA doing investigation regarding electronics. CNN had statement from LaHood DHTSA is not done with Toyota. LaHood claims this is huge safety issue!!!

    During interview - once again claims made auto accident San Diego off duty CHP officer and family with 911 tapes seemed to lead to final actions. I have again enclosed You Tube TV news report of accident at time of accident.
  • flxmomflxmom Member Posts: 24
    Yes I agree, this is very fishy and its going to come out very soon ! And Toyota is going to have to fix millions of cars and pay millions of dollars to people !
  • kaveteshkavetesh Member Posts: 1
    I have 2004 sienna le awd and have had sudden acceleration on 3 or 4 occasions but here is where it differs the car was on cruise control at 110km or there about.I hit the brakes and it did work.I also had it happen once while I was exiting a car wash the van just accelerated again I hit the brake and it stopped...I do beleive they installed the brake overide during a regular service visit I do recollect reading that some "campaign performed" with some number on it and the dealer told me just some standard recall that had been performed.My worry is the Sienna is not on the recall list...any ideas
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's much more, some new headlines from Automotive News:

    Toyota ordered by Japan to address Prius brake complaints

    ordered by Japan's Ministry of Transportation to investigate a rash of consumer complaints about braking problems

    Feds look at Toyota electronics as source of acceleration defects

    The U.S. Department of Transportation is looking into whether Toyota Motor Corp.'s problems with unintended acceleration can be traced to defects in the electronic controls rather than just the mechanical problems cited by the automaker

    I said this more than a year ago, but anyone who has experienced a problem needs to report it to the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation, here's a link once again:

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

    This is the only way a complaints will ever be addressed.

    I bet they add other models soon.
  • snevets23snevets23 Member Posts: 18
    C'mon Japan and my native USA.....time to investigate Lexus also! By now, you should realize that it's not just a Toyota problem, and please don't insult our intelligence by citing floormats as the scapegoat source. Delve deeper into the electronics! Personally, I've done all I can to publicize the truth with letters to the dealer, manufacturer, press, insurance company and filing a report with NHTSA. My happiest day will be when the truth is publicly released, and I'm exonerated!
  • kellermallenkellermallen Member Posts: 2
    "I mean, you were likely not even on the gas as you were turning into the space? Or did you apply some gas, and then when you let off the pedal you were surprised when the car continued moving forward (with a stuck pedal) rather than decelerating like it should without gas? "

    I had pressed the brake to slow down, and then pressed lightly on the gas pedal in order to steer into my parking spot. Instead of accelerating slowly, the car responded as if I had pressed the accelerator all the way to the floor. I didn't even have time to react in order to press on the brake...the concrete wall stopped the car before I even had a chance. I am so grateful my children weren't in the car with me and that there weren't any other cars or, heaven forbid, pedestrians, involved.

    I have loved my Sienna. I hope Toyota can figure out what the real problem is and fix it so I can continue to love my car!
  • bertha06bertha06 Member Posts: 15
    Those of us this has happened to know it's not the floor mats or the accelerator pedal sticking. I was driving in town, less than 25 mpg. How could a sticking accelerator pedal cause the van to accelerate suddenly when I was applying the brake and wasn't pushing that hard on the accelerator to begin with? I did report to NHTSA shortly after my accident, thanks to this message board, but how many has this happened to that didn't know to report to them? I wouldn't have had any idea if I hadn't come across this site. Also, when I picked up a copy of the police report a week later, I was shocked to see that he had stated that I was asleep, that I passed out due to a medical condition, both total fabrications. He didn't even ask me what happened. The EMT did, and her report was correct, but if the NHTSA goes off the police report when (and if) they investigate, then what? The van is gone, totaled, so they can't look at it. So very frustrating. I went to every source I could think of, the police chief, sent Emails to all the city council, mayor, city manager, talked to a couple of attorneys, and could not get the police report amended. So, I'm with you, I definitely would love to be able to call the police chief and ask him what he thinks now. I'm sure the Sienna will be on the list, I don't know why it isn't already.
    Also, why isn't anybody talking about the fact that many of these vehicles are equipped with an Event Data Recorder? When I mentioned this to Toyota (I reported to them too, right away) they came out and looked at the vehicle, but would not access the information on the Even Data Recorder, which should have told what happened, as far as pushing the brake pedal, the acceleration, how fast the vehicle was going when it hit the concrete wall, etc. Either they did and kept it to themselves, or didn't want to know. My theory is, they have known for a long time and it's been one big coverup by Toyota. I will be so happy when the real truth finally comes out, and like you said, we are finally exonerated.
  • jjllcaljjllcal Member Posts: 31
    We have so much problems with this 2004 van, I consider it is a lemon....
    List of problem
    1) Gas lick (flooded) after replacing the fuel tank.. took them 2 weeks to fix.

    2) Driver side front door has popping sound - welding problem- initially they refuse to fix until the recall got in.

    3) Driver side sit belt not easily release - wants $300 to fix .. Safety issue? Not fix yet because it passed the warranty. This is the first time a seat belt fail me in my 30 years of driving.

    4) Steering wheel arm cushion( a piece of washer type rubber) broke - bad for driving and alignment- cost $700.00 (passed warranty)
    When I took it to the dealer, the service manager said it is impossible for a 2004. However, their mechanic verified that there is a problem of it. Initially, i thought it is the brake that has the problem, because it make the squeaking noise when you step on the break. It cost 700 to fix because they have to replace both arm. I believe they designed this van to suck your money dry during repair.

    5) Passenger automatic door broke - require 800+ to fix claiming motor problem and has to replace the entire assembly ( you can not replace individual part, another money sucker). I took it to a independent auto shop , fix it for $200.00 (replacing the piece of metal that hold the door, not the motor assembly). The cushion( another piece of rubber/metal) of the arm that hold the door worn off and therefore the door is scratching the side of the car.

    6) the most current one... I do not know whether it is related to rain or not.
    it happen 2 times last week ( heavy rain), It is very hard to turn my steering wheel when I am in drive mode, have to restart the car to solve this problem. My wife experience the same problem.

    7) And i was told by my mechanic that the rear brake was designed with a housing that the brake dust can not escape to the ground and therefore accumulate in the housing. Eventually, the rear brake will produce squeaking noise. I just hope it will not effect the braking function otherwise it is a time bomb again.

    And also my mechanic show me a list (20-30 items including recalls) from Toyota to dealers/auto shops about some problems that might occurs to the van and advice the mechanic how to fix it. He has to log into the internet/modem to get the info. He only show me 1 of the items that he think it might be related to my steering. And on that item it clearing stated that repair only within the 30000/ 3 years warranty and if and only if the customer complaint about it . Because i did not receive any advice from Toyota at all. Basically, they do not want the drivers to know and let the warranty expire. The advice was sent during 2004. Is there any mechanic know what I am talking about and post the list of items so that we all aware of the potential problem / problems.

    :mad:

    We should all report our complaint to the NHTSA.

    Here is the link

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    how many has this happened to that didn't know to report to them?

    I think now that the story is headline news people will report events that happened even in the past. We should remind people to do that, too.

    The Prius will be next, but we may see all throttle-by-wire models recalled eventually.
  • raytoy44raytoy44 Member Posts: 10
    ---------------- :mad: --
    My 2000 Sienna goes crazy accelerating in CRUISE CONTROL like on Steve Wozniak's Prius.....
    ----
    I did not want to make an issue as rarely use it and knew Toyota would deny it.

    ---------- :lemon: ------
  • siennacrashsiennacrash Member Posts: 2
    :surprise: Oh My God!!!big>

    Since the late Toyota recall myself and my wife have been look into a Sienna crash that happen to her in 10-08, about two months ago I did place a claim with NHTSA.

    The crash was so horrific my wife; driving our ’02 Sienna does not recall traveling into an intersection and causing the accident.

    I don’t care to elaborate but due to the other vehicle’s structural condition, the other driver was close to death for weeks after the crash.
    Since Toyota did not recall our particular brand we did not know what to do with ourselves,
    The horrific site and predicament we were in after the accident took a huge toll on our family,
    And needless to say the other driver and family.

    Tonight I did Google the issue and found this form,
    For some time after reading others comments I could not catch my breath!!
    What can we do beyond NHTSA?????

    In our case this was the worst day of our lives, and almost the last day of another life!!!
  • yatesjoyatesjo Member Posts: 186
    Not to minimize the dangers of uncontrolled acceleration or the tragedies that have occurred as a result, there seems to be a bit of hysteria going here. While Toyota is recalling many millions of vehicles, the pedal supplier says there are less than a dozen incidents associated with their part. This may not be all incidents nor may it be the only cause, but in the absence of hard numbers about how many cases there are is it possible we are getting carried away?

    The media are fanning the flames. As always "if it bleeds, it leads." They smell blood in the water: a big name target and ratings. They will milk this for all the attention they can- Edmunds included- because that is how they make money. That means there are a lot of words, a few sob stories and not many facts beyond the number of cars, makes, and years recalled.

    Now we are also seeing a lot of new posters with sob stories about their Toyotas. "OMG my Toyota crashed and it was the worst day of our lives" or being spammed with grammatically poor laundry lists of problems copy and pasted to every thread. Not to assail everyone because some have been on this thread talking about problems prior to Toyota acceleration becoming the latest meme, but some folks look like they are just trying to pile on for whatever perverse thrill it gives them to say "me too."

    Lets not forget, too, that the same government that is responsible for playing watchdog on car makers also is heavily invested, financially and politically, into two major competitors. Toyota is the biggest car maker in the world and has muscled one of those companies out of the top spot. If that doesn't represent a conflict of interest, I don't know what does. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some Chicago style politics being played in the background to squeeze Toyota and put others on notice.

    As time permits, I plan to dig through NHSTA complaints and try to put some real numbers on speed control complaints- something a real journalist would do it such a thing still existed. Like all government databases, it seems to be structured to be as user un-friendly as possible, but I've already looked through some complaints and recognize a couple as being posted in this very forum. I'll post the results here as possible.
  • victor23victor23 Member Posts: 201
    So far, I never posted unless I had something useful to say, however, today I write this only to show you my full support because I anticipate a flurry of public outrage in response to your post. That is exactly what I discussed this morning with my family, and the analysis you are embarking on is just what I tried to do myself last night (but gave up for the very reasons you mention, poor organization of the database and lack of time on my part). Thank you, and keep up! Everybody, let's keep our composure and common sense. Also, as another poster (ateixeira?) already mentioned, let's try not to blame our own faults/bad luck on the vehicle/government/else, which is rapidly becoming a part of our culture.
  • djtejasdjtejas Member Posts: 1
    yatesjo,

    my thoughts exactly...my girlfriend and i were just talking about this earlier today.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, that was me.

    Here's what I suggest...

    * Let's keep this conversation constructive, please
    * If you experience throttle failure report to NHTSA's ODI first
    * Then also report it here, with details, including year/model/etc
    * Please try to keep emotions to a minimum, the sky is not falling
    * No cross-posting, it's against Edmunds rules and wastes time (we read it twice)

    We are all concerned, this is a vehicle for carrying around children after all. But I think if we stick to those guidelines it will be better for everyone.

    I agree with yatesjo that Toyota is in the line of fire right now and there are people that will take advantage of that and blame them for incidents where there was driver error, but perhaps this is karma at work - Toyota has twice pointed to scape goats for the problem (carpets and throttle pedals) when it may turn out to be an issue with the electronics. Sucks being them right now.

    FWIW, my mom's Honda Fit has windows that don't open and Honda just recalled 600,000+ vehicles for that. She still loves it. My 98 Subaru Forester was recalled for possible brake master cylinder failure. It was still the most reliable car I've ever owned.

    Eventually we'll get to the bottom of this, and right now enough attention is on the issue that we can be certain that if there is a pattern of problems it *will* get addressed.

    In the meantime, relax and enjoy your Siennas. I still love mine. I'd buy a 2011 today if it were stolen or totalled.
  • bertha06bertha06 Member Posts: 15
    In response to messages 137 through 140, all I can say is, I'll bet this never happened to you. To insinuate the media, the governent, etc, are all picking on Toyota somehow because they are such a big company is ridiculous. The NHSTA is supposed to be there to look out for the consumer's safety. Believe me, if this had happened to you, I don't think you would want to buy another Toyota product. It's quite a bit different than a faulty window. I have been waiting since my accident in April for the truth to come out, and I am still waiting, because I don't believe it's the floor mats or the gas pedal that is the problem. Unlike the "Sienna Crash" post, I do remember very well exactly what happened during my accident. I agree that to think that every Toyota crash is due to this same problem is not right, but to say the government is doing this because they have an interest in two competitors is equally ridiculous.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >I agree with yatesjo that Toyota is in the line of fire right now and there are people that will take advantage of that and blame them for incidents where there was driver error, but perhaps this is karma at work - Toyota has twice pointed to scape goats for the problem (carpets and throttle pedals) when it may turn out to be an issue with the electronics. Sucks being them right now.

    Toyota has brought this upon themselves. They expected to continue their minimal repair to already produced and sold vehicles and just to make changes as necessary on the production line without recalling earlier, affected vehicles. For example the panel that could fall onto the pedal area in Siennas weren't going to be recalled for repair, even though it was a safety hazard.

    They affected the NHSTA's handling of the reports of acceleration by limiting the cases considered to only 1 second or LESS in endurance. Does that make sense? No. But they had Santucci, who used to be employed at NHSTA, to effect that limitation with past coworkers at NHSTA apparently. Think how many lives have been at risk since that was done. IF proper listing of events of acceleration were done, the government would have been checking sooner.
    This should make you mad.

    Toyota has continued with somewhat a disdain for safety for US customers of their cars. They would do recalls and fixes only when absolutely caught on their own pitard. Look at how they handled the sludge problems. Same as the acceleration. The tech writers at dealerships had never heard of it when customers complained. Or it was something customer did, "They must have had their foot on the gas instead of the brake."

    Even now after two red herrings for the most severe of the runaway accelerations, the electronic or computer component still isn't being tauted from toyota's end. Instead they have latched onto getting good publicity for their Cinderella Prius and are hoping the media and attention to that can be used to up the public image of toyota's handling of the acceleration. So they might recall and fix the 2010 cars already sold they think by doing the fix applied to later production on the assembly line already.

    I'm not sure what other car's problems and fixes have to do with toyota's other than trying to again distract. Are the other companies fixing those?

    Toyota needs to quit stalling and start respecting the US customers and finding out what happened in their electronics. At least Toyoda didn't wear a gauze mask this time when he came out to face the unwashed media.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota has brought this upon themselves

    Perhaps, karma as I mentioned, but it's extremely difficult to find software bugs that could be causing the problem. Not to mention it's rare and intermittent. Hence the importance of documenting each case to help determine some type of pattern.

    Think about it - more than 99% of the cars in the recall have never showed the symptom. Why? Why is the problem so rare?

    Toyota is a for-profit corporation so greed is to be expected, but I'm not sure they knew exactly what the problem was (even now, still).

    The other problems I mentioned are not intended to distract, but rather to show that automakers do make mistakes and it takes time to figure out a fix and implement it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Again, not to distract, but to demonstrate how some problems are very widespread and develop an easy-to-identify pattern of failures:

    http://www.gmproblems.com/brakes.htm

    Excerpt:

    •And a whopping 51% of Oldsmobile Alero owners reported problems with their brakes or rotors

    That's more than HALF. Imagine having 6 million Toyotas, and 3+ million brake problems. To give us an idea of the scale of that problem.

    That's easier to find.
  • backwoodsbackwoods Member Posts: 12
    bertha06

    Agree with your statement, individuals on many forums attempt to discredit poster problems/incidents. But when it happens to them, whoa, tears begin to flow.

    I do have a question, do you recall if you had cruise control engaged at that time.
    Anyone else with this issue, feel free to answer, also.

    Along with so many other issues I have had and or Toyota has, I find my cruise control to be very fin-key.
    In certain conditions my cruise control will accelerate aggressively (passing gear) and exceed the set limit by a considerable amount. Makes it a little scarey when traveling closely behind someone.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Excerpt: •And a whopping 51% of Oldsmobile Alero owners reported problems with their brakes or rotors

    First we look to the statistics used to gather the data. And your link was to a site attempting to garner customers for a class action suit, isn't it?

    The data is based on visitors to an online website and their "customers." It was not a JD Powers type survey to indicate there were that many people with problems with Alero brakes. It also doesn't differentiate between brake failure or early wear, at least in the owner's opinion. It doesn't indicate a difference between brakes failing and cars crashing over cliffs or people having to replace original pads early.

    Odd too, Alero hasn't been built since 2004.

    If early wear is a problem, lots of Honda brakes are in trouble based on reading some of their threads here.

    "The Autoweb Reliability Ratings are collected from visitors and past customers of
    Autobytel Inc’s websites (Autobytel.com, Autoweb.com and CarSmart.com) via online survey conducted by an independent third party. Reliability and Satisfaction "

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Isn't that (a little bit) like the pot calling the kettle black?

    Here we are, in a thread about complaints, where a few who have been affected congregate.

    You read this thread and might think the issue is common, but we're discussing a few complaints out of a few million cars.

    Even here, among this sample, you won't find anywhere near 51% affected.

    First we look to the statistics used to gather the data

    If we did that, the best source might be Consumer Reports, and what van will you find is the #1 most reliable minivan?

    The Sienna.

    See what I mean? The problem is very rare. The sky is not falling.
  • bertha06bertha06 Member Posts: 15
    Guess what? I did all the research before I bought my Sienna, and one reason I bought the Sienna was based on Consumer Report, but I will never rely on that information again. I thought I was getting a safe vehicle, and I'm lucky I'm still alive after crashing head on into a concrete wall because of the acceleration problem.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >reason I bought the Sienna was based on Consumer Report, but I will never rely on that information again. I thought I was getting a safe vehicle, and I'm lucky I'm still alive after crashing head on into a concrete wall

    Here's a good article about what's wrong with Consumer Reports. It had built up a cult following but its methods are flawed and biased.

    Analysis of Consumer Reports flaws

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Didn't they recommend against buying potentially affected cars until this is sorted out?

    Whatever honeymonn CR may have had with Toyota is clearly over.

    Prius brakes are being recalled in Japan, so it's a matter of time before the same happens here. NHTSA is also looking in to Corolla steering issues.

    When it rains, it pours.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's a Chrysler enthusiast site, and aren't they the lowest rated among the 3 domestic brands? They do have an axe to grind (and actually try to hide that by comparing to one of the least reliable import brands - intentionally misleading).

    Allpar writes:

    could just be a dent in the adveritisng budget

    That's wrong because CR doesn't accept advertisements.

    People who buy different car models may also maintain them differently.

    Speculative at best.

    I've heard the opposite - that people who buy reliable cars think they will last forever so they don't bother maintaining them.

    They are just throwing mud and hoping something sticks. They make a few valid points and mix them up with obvious myths (advertisements in CR? Have they ever actually seen an issue before?).

    That web site is weak sauce, sorry.
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