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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)
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Comments
-mike
I only wish I had snow to play on, goose!
-juice
dhdunn
-juice
...and that round thing that blocks the view of the speedometer??
well, I'm not all that acronym-challenged. My wife recently got an MPH, Masters in Public Health. I told her that if we ever move back to Europe, she'll have a KPH, Kilometers in Public Health...
-juice
Can anyone address the relative merits of the Forester vs. the Outback, and vice versa? From what I see, the Forester is a bit less expensive. Why is that? Of course, the new 6-cyl Outback is rather prohibitive...
Thanks!!
d
In general, the Forester is lighter, a bit quicker and more agile/sporty. The Legacy/Outback is a bit more luxurious, has a softer ride and better rear passenger room.
Ross
Jerry
Thanks,
Rick
Mike.
Here in Minnesota the SUV is popular mainly for people who need a station wagon that can handle heavy snow. My outdoors-minded friends and I use SUVs to drive country "roads" that are full of washouts and rocks that destroy cars built only for highway use.
Criticizing SUVs like Foresters for not being able to run amok off roads is like damning Miatas for not being true racing machines.
<< Why do reviewers continue to carp about SUVs that are not built for "serious offroading"? It is illegal to run motorized vehicles off roads in most areas and immoral to do it in many places it is done. >>
Some of us *do* like to have true off-road capability with our SUVs. As for being "immoral," where do you get off as being so righteous as to telling others what is moral or not moral?
BTW, I do own a Forester. And yes, it is fine as is, but if I were to have two wishes, they would be to give it more off-road capability and more towing capability.
Sorry to dampen the holiday spirit here folks, but that kind of post really ticks me off.
Bob
As for "moral" and "immoral", perhaps one can simply use the current code of laws in one's state/country as a basis for morality, and then "upgrade" as one sees fit - without expecting others to abide by one's own upgrades. I have known people who don't go hiking in the mountains because they think that it's immoral to damage the terrain. For my sensibilities, that's a bit extreme, but I don't try to drag them out to go hiking, nor do I allow them to harp on me for enjoying the beauties of the natural world.
In any case, my original question (which may or may not be the original question in question) was about to what extent do people use their Foresters for offroad or quasi-offroad use because my family does camp a lot. Whereas we have our trusty and well-loved Explorer for that, I would like to think that the Forester can handle a basic 2nd level US Forest Service road without a problem. From the feedback I saw, it ain't no problem...
By the way, there are TONS of Foresters on the road here in Colorado, not that this should be at all surprising.
d
-mike
When I say I would like the Forester to be more off-road capable, I'm not talking about turning it into a rock crawler with 36" tires. I'd like to see it with a dual-range tranny for better gearing in tough situations, a bit more ground clearance, and more under-body protection.
I too have an Explorer for more difficult tasks, but if our Forester had those items I just mentioned (along with better towing), I doubt we would have it much longer.
Bob
...just kidding...
Bob, thanks for the insights. I had a 4Runner back in 1985 when they first came out. It had the ol' 22R engine (I think) which was a 2.4 litre, and it was great!! Low set of gears, and manually-engaging hubs. So, I agree that an SUV is a cloudy little term. If I wanted another really rugged vehicle, I wouldn't be looking at the Forester. But it seems that it will be exactly what we're looking for (not to mention less expensive in terms of payments than my Lincoln LS!!).
Paisan, as far as tree-huggers go, I'm a tree hugger. Actually, I love the vanilla-ish smell of some pine trees, and when I smell one I, much to the delight of my daughters, hug and kiss it. Personally, I am deeply moved by God's creation, and feel a duty to teach such tree-hugging to my daughters. A nice balanced approach is what I hope they learn - I'm sure they'll find a better middle path. I invite you to study the life and presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, who was one of this country's first true conservationists while also holding to some conservative values as well. So, aligning "tree-huggers" with whitehouse intern stuff perhaps is more of an act of catharsis than anything else? Hope you feel better!!
d
Mike
Mike: I'd recommend washing the undercarriage after driving through chemical treated snow. Most the steel is now galvanized. Subaru puts on undercoating for the trip across the Pacific.
Nancy: get door sill plates. I had to do this for my Miata, since the previous owner had scratched them up (high heels, maybe? Dunno).
You don't need custom sizes, either. I measured the width and length, then went to Pep Boys with a tape measure, and found some from a GMC pickup, of all things, that fit just fine. It was less than $20 for a pair of plastic ones, with two-sided tape.
Interestingly, the plastic is taking a beating, so I guess I'm not as careful as I should be, either!
Steve: Subaru supports the "Leave no Trace" and "Tread Lightly" programs. Some people do need limited capabilities, such as getting around on farm property, access to surf fishing, or just picking up apples at the orchard (hint: the good stuff is in the back where the 2WD cars can't go).
I work for the Environment Department, so I guess that makes me a de-facto tree hugger. I see nothing wrong with a little off-road recreation, as long as you leave things pretty much the way you found them.
-juice
dhdunn-- The Forester is a replacement for my beloved '86 4Runner 2.4RE (first EFI?). That was some bullet-proof engine! And the 4W-low got me out of some situations that I wouldn't even think of taking the Forester. *tsk* ...I miss that 4Runner.
--'rocco
-mike
-mike
Bob
-mike
It's also interesting to note that Mother Nature does much harm itself. Every time lightning starts a forest fire, or a hurricane wipes out beaches, or a volcano erupts; huge amounts of ecological damage is done—much more than any off-roading will do.
Having said that, I'm in no way excusing those who abuse and trash the environment; and I'm also quite aware, that in the long run, Mother Nature-caused disasters often brings good. New life eventually springs forth, and life goes on. Perhaps a bit differently, but it DOES go on—and sometimes better than it did before.
I just think we need to keep a bit more perspective on this topic. I sense from some people, that if we're "having fun" in the great outdoors—especially if it's motorized fun—that we're automatically doing the environment harm. I have problem with that type of thinking.
Bob
Scirrocco (sp?), yes!! the 22RE engine, I think it was called. Amazing!! I bought my 4Runner in October of 1984, being the first shipment in LA of the 1985 models with EFI. Great vehicle!! From what i hear, the Forester, while different in character, is as bullet-proof a vehicle.
d
By the way I am seriously considering a 2001 Outback, 6,000 miles(options: as far as I can tell ....a CD, heated cloth seats(does that mean heated mirrors too) and roof rack) for about $19,500. How does this price sound?
-mike
Bob
Ho, Ho, Ho everyone.
Santa (aka Bob)
-mike
It was a quick sleigh ride, for sure!
Hope everybody got what they want. If not, contact my head elf, juice. He'll accept any return.
Santa (aka Bob)
Sincerely,
mike
Haaaaa!
I have been following the posts on this message board and the ones for the other vehicles and thought I would ask for general impressions which you all might have about the three vehicles. I also have some specific questions.
Here are my basis requirements and specific questions:
I need to drive an automatic. (I currently own a '92 5-spd. Acura Integra and love it but need more space and can't get my wife to learn manual transmission). I need enough space for two small children with car seats in the back and a vehicle that will do well in the snow but don't need serious off-road capability. (We live in Colorado).
I am favoring Subarus generally and the Forester specifically because it appears that the Subarus have the best AWD systems among my narrowed choices. I like the Forester because of the sense of better visibility and the moonroof that comes with the premium package (but which the CR-V EX also has). What I don't like about the Forester is its less refined interior and its front seat cupholder location (over the radio and other controls) and the small rear seat room and cargo space compared to the other two.
I have driven both Subarus and seen but not driven the CR-V.
The big issue for me about the CR-V is that, according to my research, the AWD system really only works when the front wheel drive slips and there is no option for a limited slip rear differential. Otherwise, I like the look of the CR-V and it seems to have more room than the Forester and at least comparable room to the Outback.
My basic questions re: the CR-V are these: are these engineering differences in the drive train, etc. in reality, significant enough to favor the Subarus over the CR-V? Do folks see any other real disadvantages of the CR-V over the other two? (I read on one board that rear view visibility was an issue with the CR-V.)
Re: the Forester S+ my main concern is the rear seat space and cargo room. In the experience of others, will there be enough room to handle to small (but growing) kids? Do folks see any other real disadvantages of the Forester S+ in comparison to the Outback or the CR-V?
Re: the Outback Base -- are there any significant advantages, in your views, over the other two? Any significant disadvantages?
Finally, re: the Subarus -- both models seem to have enough standard equipment to suit me in the basic trim lines I am shopping. However, when I view the cars on the lots around here, they include a lot more options than I would like. Any hints on how to get the basic trim line with limited options? Would an internet site like carsdirect.com be the best way to go? (A sales rep for one of the dealers said that I would simply be referred to a dealer who would offer what's on the lot and would have to factory order the car if I wanted only limited options.)
Apologies for the length of this post. Any replies would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
I agree with you as to the Subie's AWD advantage over the CRV. The Subie system is "pro-active," whereas the CRV's system is "re-active." I think in push-comes-to-shove situations, the Subie will have the advantage. Also, the CRV is designed only to work in poor traction, whereas the Subie's system is designed in as a "performance-enhancing" feature, to be available during all driving conditions, not just bad weather.
A few other points to consider:
* The Forester S Premium's moonroof is about twice as large as the moonroof on the CRV EX.
• The Forester S Premium comes with heated seats, heated outside mirrors and an electronic windshield deicer.
• The '02 Forester comes with a 2-speed rear wiper; an intermittent speed and a fixed speed. It also comes with a variable intermittent speed front wiper. I don't think the CRV has either of those two features, but I'm not sure. I think(?) it comes with a 1-speed rear wiper (intermittent or fixed?), and a fixed intermittent front wiper.
• The Forester S Premium also comes with an LSD, the CRV doesn't.
• If you go with the base Outback, I would get the "All Weather Package." This standard with the Forester S Premium, but optional on the base Outback. It consists of the LSD, heated seats, heated mirrors, and the windshield deicer.
Lastly, if you can wait till June, there will be an all-new Forester on the market here. It's sure to be improved in all aspects, including being roomier. It will be introduced at the NY Auto Show in late March.
Bob
paisan: you'd like the Aussie Forester that one of the buys on the Yahoo Forester Club built. He removed both bumpers and installed massive skid plates front and rear, along with a lift, taller springs, and big tires. It look more or less like an angry cartoon character, but with his low range he can keep up with some of the best.
I can't believe PhotoPoint is still down, else I'd share a photo.
Forester, Outback, or CR-V? Well, I think Honda purchased a Forester and reverse-engineered it to create the new CR-V. Look at engine size, power and torque output, and the built-in roof rails and you might agree with me.
Still, Honda targeted the 1998 Forester, while Subaru is about to launch a 2003 model. Their 3/36 warranty is just about ridiculous in this day and age, reliable or not, they should stand behind their product.
How many kids do you have? If you have 1, the Forester is fine. 2-3 would push me into an Outback, though. The 5/60 warranty, the presence of Patti from SoA, and the cult-like feeling from owners seals the deal.
-juice
Same is true wrt interior roominess. How has your current vehicle served you? Compare it's size with the Forester etc. to see if it will be big enough.
But the most important thing is to drive all the vehicles you are interested in as much as possible. That way you can see which one YOU like best, which is the only thing that matters. (Although, I think the dealer is also very important.)
As far as options go, I think only the L model is stocked without any options in this region (Colorado). I found that the S came with 2 different packages of options, so I choose one with the fewest options. I didn't look into the S+, but I would expect it to be similar. I think your salesman is right that the only way to get it plain is to order it, but if you were going to do that you should probably wait to see what the new one is like.
As far as space, my kiddos are soon to be 5 and 2, and on the way home from the dealership I could feel the younger daughter pushing her feet against the back of the driver's seat. I'm around 5'11" for reference. Yes it is tight back there.
I considered the Honda CR-V too, but at the time the dealership I was working with would not sell below MSRP and did not have any for immediate delivery. I have since found out that it might pay to try the "Internet" salesperson at several dealers to get a better price. The Subaru dealership gave me a better price for my trade in, and, oh alright, I'll admit it, I wanted to see what heated seats were like, and the answer is, yes, they are nice.
I have a complaint about the CR-V that goes like this: I insisted that my next car was to have ABS. To get ABS you need to get the EX, which also has a moonroof. Now with that moonroof you loose some headroom, and whatever value the folding tray between the front seats has, it is negated by the lack of height to get to the back seats to get at your kids strapped into the car seats.
-MT
With the 2 kids, I'd lean towards the Outback, but peek at the next Forester before you take the dive.
-juice
MT
I am not sure what the problem is yet but I've
seen it on quite a few boards today.
tidester
Host
SUVs
Does a manufacturer of an AWD owe consumers at least a warning?
Don't blame the messenger again guys...this is not Dallas, San Diego, Recife, or even Brooklyn. We buy these cars for transportation in all weather found in most of North America.
Please, no excuses SOA...and no polite marketing( we understand your pain stuff). You are aware that these tires are poor in snow....aren't you?
And: the Bridgestones wear poorly. Replaced at 26,000 miles ! C'mon.
I live in the Bay Area and you're right -- lots of Subarus here. In fact, the largest volume dealer in North America is located here.
Which part of the Bay Area are you looking at? We're blessed with lots of great hikes and drives. Here's a brief overview, let me know if you want details.
North Bay -- Try the Marin headlands, just north of the Golden Gate bridge. There lots of highways around Mt. Tam.
East Bay -- Up behind Berkeley, there are a lot of hiking trails in Tilden Park. There's also quite a bit of scenic driving along Wildcat Canyon Road.
Peninsula -- Lots of wildlife perserves off of Skyline Blvd. The drive is great and you'll be rewarded by great hikes among redwoods. For some real twisties, try taking Rt. 9 towards the coast.
Ken
Ken
-mike
Also, how is the Forester in high cross winds? I live in the Front Range of the Rockies where we sometimes get winds as high as 90 MPH. Obviously, I don't want to be out in that in anything but a Sherman Tank. But with high winds being a common event here, I'd like to know what people think about the handling ability in a heavy crosswind.
Thanks all yet again for your continued input!!!!
dhd