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Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?



  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    I can only assume that there were no new 2008 models by any other company. Or another assumption would be it and the Silverado was a tie last year and it would on;ly be given that the Tundra would be this year truck(I am sure that will cause a reponse for GM owners!) Anyways Merry Christmas to all and a healthy New Yaer!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    "Or another assumption would be it and the Silverado was a tie last year and it would on;ly be given that the Tundra would be this year truck"

    There may have been a response but I don't quite understand your previous statement. :surprise:
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    Merry Christmas.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    The Silverado/Sierra HD and Ford Super Duty were also in this year's TOY competition, as they did not begin production until after last year's contest was completed. Motor Trend always claims that trucks are scored against their direct competition, so the Tundra was rated against all the current half-tons, as opposed to the heavy pickups which were rated against each other and the Dodge Ram HD.

    The F-150 and Ram 1500 will both start production this coming summer, so both will be available for 2009 TOY honors.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054 describes it best in their article regarding the MT testing and award.


    Quote out of context, "Our money was on the F-450 for this award, as the truly super truck from Ford is rather peerless in the market. But we're not the editors of Motor Trend, and it's their award to give to whomever they choose. We're sure they're ready for the onslaught of armchair automotive journalism that's coming their way."

    Course we all have our opinions.
  • sknabtsknabt Posts: 14
    "While it is true that a new or redesigned vehicle is a requirement, the Tundra was redesigned for the model year 2007 and NOT 2008. So the question remains why was the Tundra the MT Truck of the Year for 2008 when it was introduced in 2007 as a 2007 model?"

    My understanding is the '07 Tundra wasn't ready in time for the '07 TOTY. The rumor is the Tundra was delayed to tweak its interior to better match GM's (keep working on that Toyota). I imagine that's why they held it over to '08 so it'd get a shot.

    Motor Trend ran a separate competition of the '07 Silverado against the '07 Tundra. The Silverado won but, in fairness to Toyota, the Tundra did very well, maybe even a tad better. The vehicles Motor Trend got from the manufacturers for the piece weren't very well matched in equipment and the bloated price of the Tundra ended up tipping the scales against it.

    I can't blame GM ('07) and Toyota ('08) for including TOTY in their marketing hype. but TOTY is a meaningless award. Even Motor Trend admits their criteria for inclusion in the competition is so restrictive too few trucks go head to head to make it interesting or meaningful. They're stuck with this mess as long as they stick to TOTY being a copy-cat of COTY.
  • b2900b2900 Posts: 20
    This may help you understand how MT make the decisoin and yes this video does state that there were few trucks to review as trucks will retain the designs for several years unlike cars.
  • Thought you'd be interested in seeing some *other* youtube videos about Tundra, posted by real owners, not scam "race" videos by the company.

    Excessive Tundra Bed bounce due to weak frame:

    Massive Bed bounce and twist captured in Torsional reaction video study of F150, Silverado, and Tundra (hint: Tundra sucks)

  • So folks sure aint workin them tundra ones with that bed bounce now. How is that tundra goin last in them fields now? How much did that factory pay that motor trend for that award? That forien one sure is goin break fast if worked hard, thats for sure! Good luck on this one now!
  • sknabtsknabt Posts: 14
    mschmal, thanks for posting those links. Particularly the highway footage of the Tundra's ridiculous vibration problem.

    There's also one put out comparing frame flex with the Ford F-150 vs. the Tundra by the same folks who put out the bed bounce video you posted. I don't have it handy but it demonstrates the superiority of a fully boxed frame, the F-150's in this case (I'm sure they're sponsored by Ford). They put weights on one corner of each frame and the Tundra's c-frame bends like a reed in the wind while the Ford is far stronger. It may explain the Tundra's massive flex in the bed bounce video you posted because the Tundra's weaker frame is bound to flex like crazy in a test like that. The Chevy's excessive play in the rear appears to be suspension issues, not the bed flexing much and it, too, is fully boxed.

    Of course, these are just tests. How practical are they? But they do prove that the fully boxed frames of the new Fords and GMs are far more rigid.

    Toyota, a company leaning heavily on a reputation of uncompromising quality, has really cut corners in the Tundra. Mediocre crash test scores. Weaker frame. Cheaper interior. Relatively unsophisticated 4x4 system. Limited slip differential (versus locking). Then they have the nerve to charge thousands more just because it says "Toyota" on the tailgate.
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    Get off my butt? you have got to be kidding.I have much more important things to take care of than, visiting showrooms and the interiors of sierras I know those things are importent to you but i just don't have time for the lies and propaganda. Glad you have time in your life for all of that, you must be retired or being payed by well who ever. Happy new year!
  • Why cant that factory figure this one out now? If that frame aint boxed on that tundra, how is that one goin last long workin them fields and such? We need trucks with haul, and ones that last long now. First we got them hi-lux ones, then them t100 ones, and then them little tundras. All of them ones break quick if worked hard. Now that factory gives us them new bigger tundra ones... but they got that t100 frame! That frame is goin twist and snap when loaded down now. Once again that forien factory is trickin folks into buyin them ones, yet they are bustin quick! Me, I will stick with them big3 ones, them ones last long and work hard. Fact is facts on this one now. Good luck on this one now!
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Actually I think the Chevy Trailblazer has had a quite a few more recalled than the Focus ever did.

  • sknabtsknabt Posts: 14
    "Get off my butt? you have got to be kidding.I have much more important things to take care of than, visiting showrooms and the interiors of sierras I know those things are importent to you but i just don't have time for the lies and propaganda. Glad you have time in your life for all of that, you must be retired or being payed by well who ever. Happy new year! "

    Let me see. You've twice replied to me with insults. Twice you've accused me of being on the take. Now you're calling me a liar and a propagandist. Yet, you admit you haven't personally investigated my claims and have no intention becoming informed on the topic. Sad, really sad.

    My interest and knowledge is quite simple. I've been researching some full-size pick-ups because I was shopping for one. I talk up the Sierra because I was impressed enough with them to take delivery on a Sierra SLT last evening.

    Isn't that what the Edmunds forums are for? Car buyers, shoppers, and general enthusiasts?

    BTW, I've never worked for GM, any other car company, any marketing company, nor am I a GM loyalist (this is the first GM I've ever owned).
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    I read h20's "lies and propaganda" comment to mean coming from salespeople, not from you. And while I have an excellent dealer and sales staff where I get my Rams (and Mark certainly knows his F-series), I can agree that many salespeople don't know their product and just repeat the marketing scripts they're given.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • kyle11kyle11 Posts: 11
    I think that it will stil be the best.
  • kyle11kyle11 Posts: 11
    The Honda Ridgeline stinks.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • kyle11kyle11 Posts: 11
    Dodge is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    since you took dilivery on your gm and the only reason you were posting here was because you were researching trucks i presume you will not post here again,.please don't misunderstand this as an attack on you. happy hollidays. if you do keep posting you will have made my point paid by who?????
  • Would like to hear a tell on how them ones is doin in the fields and such. Is them beds twistin and tailgates bustin? Any rust popin on them ones yet? Them forien ones got thinner metal... pops rust quicker. That be the way of them ones now. Seems like most folks is workin that hiway with them ones... not fields. Plenty of them big3 ones is workin hard, but what of them forien ones? Good luck on this one now!
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Enough with the payola accusations. Or someone paid by Edmunds will do something about it. Understood?

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • Hey Rube...we grew up on farms too with F 250's and Cheyenne 2500's with 454 V8's. You know as well as i do that real farm work must be done with heavy duty 3/4 tons or more. Half tons are not and never will be designed for heavy duty use. You can put as big a springs and lift kits and big tires on half tons all you want but that does not change the fact that the frame is not designed for extreme duty work. The Super Duty Fords today still use a version of the Twin I beam suspension, which to this day is unmatched by anyone in terms of payload and towing capacities simply because its the strongest known design to be used in light to medium duty pickups such as the F-450 and 550.

    Ford, Chevy, and Dodge all must be loaded with options and properly equipt to do any kind of heavy work anyway. I agree 100 percent that the bed flex is unacceptable but any auto manufacturer tries to get away with putting as little strength into a vehicle structure as possible to see what they can get away with before adding more strength to it. Its so they can maximize profits. Its just good business. Ever slam the door on a 2007 Ford F-150 extended cab? The doors wobble and shake like waves in lake michigan. The dash is cheap plastics held together with spit and glue. The days of 200,000 mile gas pickups are over.

    Anyone can beat the hell out of a vehicle but there is no comparing trucks from the glory days when you could work on them and they used heavier steel. Those trucks are dying out. Plus they were a pain to start in the winter, rusted bad, sucked fuel, and did not provide much horsepower. The gearing was so low in some you didn't dare to go over 55 miles an hour with split rims and 8 ply tall tires.

    Todays trucks are better by leaps in bounds in every category. The Tundra will fix the problems it has, quickly. God knows the somewhat Big Three has had more than their share of recalls, fires, trans problems, four wheel drive problems, and everything else under the sun. The 2008 F-Series Super Duty Diesel just had early problems with flames shooting out of the tail pipe due to the emissions control system. Dont let the most dependable slogan from GM fool you either.

    That is based on active full line truck registrations, that does not tell you how many of those trucks have rebuilt engines, transmissions, or rebuilt titles. Plus, GM has manufactured far more trucks combined than Ford so simply saying more are on the road is misguided. Of course their are because more are manufactured so odds are more will be on the road.

    Their was nothing wrong with the first generation Tundra. It got excellent fuel economy, offered an 8 foot bed, had a decent payload amount, towed a decent amount, and had a very strong frame. It was fully boxed with eight crossmembers, something Ford and GM did not have on their half tons. We were still given the soft suspension, squishy brakes GM half tons and Fords crash test failing F-150.

    Its GM and Ford who played catch up design wise to the structural integraty of the Tundra and towing duties of the Nissan Titan at the time of their introduction. The Tundra was squeak and rattle free. The same trucks built at the same time from Ford, GM, and Dodge were not. The Nissan Titan set the new standard in half ton towing capacities in its introduction. Ford simply bumped its numbers up with no changes to the drivetrain whatsoever. This is not the first time Ford has been accused of overreporting numbers...remember the Mustang Cobra?

    I think all light truck companies tend to overexaggerate the vehicles true capabilities.....they may be able to do those maximum numbers...but i sure would not do it for very long.

    Bottom line is, Toyota has more work to do. So does Nissan. But GM, Ford, and Dodge certainly are not the perfect half tons either. Anything will break if you beat it long enough, no matter who makes it.
  • h20h20 Posts: 42
    I agree no payola on Edmonds, (100%). understood. I will toe the line boss.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    What surprise does NAIAS hold in store? What the 2009 F-150 better offer if Ford wants to stay on top.

    1st are given. Things that Ford needs or they should just close.
    - Stability Control standard.
    - Curtain air bags standard.
    - Interior upgraded to similar to Expedition only with push through controls for radio and HVAC as Focus and Escape

    Now things I think Ford MUST do for the 2009 Ford F-150.

    - 6 speed Auto trans.
    - 3.5L V6 with 250HP and 250LBFT of Torque possibly replacing the 4.6L
    - Keep the 4.6L only with the 3V head from the Mustang/Explorer for 290hp and 325 LBFT of torque.
    - Enhance the 5.4L to at least 350hp/390 LBFT
    - BOSS 6.2L V8 with 380hp/450 lbft of torque
    - 4.4L Diesel 330 hp/ 500+ lbft of torque.
    - tail gate step and bed extended from Super Duty.

    IRS from Expedition
    3.5L V6 twin force with 28mpg.
    Hydraulic Hybrid with 60mpg city.
  • all you guys arguing about whos the better truck. Now as for payload and all that i'll tell you right now. To the average consumer anymore nobody cares anymore. Shameful fact about today's consumer is that people only care about looks; if it looks tough then it must be strong. Right now the truck that has it beat with tough looks is the Tundra, sorry to those who feel i'm and idiot but you know its the truth. Now i'm not saying the Tundra has highest payload, I'm not even saying its the strongest pickup out there. But you gotta admit, it looks like a tough truck, therefore everyone's gonna go for it for its looks not its power. So out of who i think is gonna go out on top? Unless the F-150 can step up its tough looking game, then the Tundra currently has it beat and it will continue until Ford changes the F-150's look to a more, tough and powerful look.

    Tough Looks Ratings:

    1) 2008 Toyota Tundra
    2) 2008 Ford F-150
    3) 2008 Dodge Ram 1500
    4) 2008 GM Silverado/Sierra
    5) 2008 Nissan Titan
    6) 2008 Honda Ridgeline (as for looks, its not pretty with non tough looks like Titan, but its rediculous on how hard Honda tried, thierfore it got last on my list)
  • We need ones with haul... like them big3 ones. We work them trucks, on that farm now. Trouble with them forien ones is they bust or rust... so they aint last long or workin hard.

    We still work this 52 haulin...

    We haul these trains... six to seven of them ones... nose to tail now...

    Can that tundra work them fields and last long? Can that tundra haul six to seven trains, day in and out, year to year? Them big3 ones do now, thats for sure. What say too this one now? Good luck on this one now!
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,054
    Tough looks rating?

    Looks are subjective. Some might say the Tundra is ugly. Does ugly equate to toughness? One thing Toyota is not known for is styling.
  • mule4mule4 Posts: 36
    Rube the picture would have looked better if the truck would have been hooked to the trailers. There are a lot of old trucks setting in fields that are broke down.I own a new tundra that pulls a Jayco 34 ft. tt 7500# dry wt. 9500# loaded.1115# tongue wt. It pulls it good in hills & mts.I have out pulled chev. & fords in the mts.The frames that posters say are weak Don't seem to be a problem.About some posters saying the truck is ugly that don't matter to me.The new chev. p/u looks like a sway back horse.The cab sets lower than the front & the bed.Besides that we all have different views on looks.The tundra is the best truck i've owned equal to a dodge diesel i had.Some folks think the new chev. & fords are the best & are not having trouble go to their forums & look & look again in 2 or 3 years Lots of problems will be showing up by then.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    ..............Dec 07 / Dec 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
    F-Series / 55,069 / 70,580 / -22.0 / 690,589 / 796,039 / -13.2
    Silverado / 53,560 / 52,396 / 2.2 / 618,257 / 636,069 / -2.8
    Ram / 32,118 / 32,875 / -2.0 / 358,295 / 364,177 / -2.0
    Sierra / 19,782 / 17,541 / 12.8 / 208,243 / 210,736 / -1.2
    Tundra / 19,219 / 12,468 / 54.1 / 196,555 / 124,508 / 57.4
    Titan / 4,785 / 5,575 / -14.2 / 65,746 / 72,192 / -9.2
    Mark LT / 551 / 1,155 / -52.3 / 8,382 / 12,753 / -34.3

    Toyota damn near made their target... give 'em credit, although it took some massive incentives to do it.

    Ford took a beating this year; loss of over 100,000 units is a problem.

    The 09 F150 and Ram 1500 will both debut at Detroit/NAIAS in a couple of weeks, so Toyota and GM will see if the bar was matched or raised.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • Its all about size and capacity. If Nissan and Toyota decide to make 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks, of course they can. By the way, hauling six to seven trains down a public highway is illegal. How the heck do you turn a corner? When we hauled fully loaded grain wagons, which are much heavier then the crop your showing on there, we could only legally tow two at a time. Plus, im sure your driving very slow, otherwise you would get far too much sway. Again, unless your driving in a straight line, i dont see how a six or seven trailer road train can turn a corner. Sorry.
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