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"You are a funny guy" How does it not matter when your comparing a F-250's Load rating,Tow capacity, to a 1/2 ton Tundra and Silverado/Sierra? I'm still laughing! Can i use the GMC-TOPKICK for the comparison then? lol..........
Also the 2007 Motor Trend Truck of the year> Silverado (1/2)Ton gets better milage with a class leading 367-HP engine then a "COMPARABLY EQUIPPED" 2007 Ford F-150! And ride quality the Silverado/Sierra is second to none!
Go check out my home page,i have a Indigo Blue 93'Sierra(SLE)Z-71 Reg Cab,Short Box I've been restoring for the past 2-1/2 years in my spare time. I wouldn't trade that Truck "straight up" for a 2007 F-150 (I'm Adding Pictures All The Time)Have a great day!
And besides, neither company is the "winner" on this. Until Ford or GM posts some kind of sustainable profit (i.e. lets just start by getting 3 or 4 quarters of profit), neither are winners. They could sell millions of trucks every year, but it they're bleeding money from all ends, it doesn't matter. What matters is if they can stay in business to do so. In that respect, GM is in a much better position than Ford, but that is merely saying that GM won't drown before Ford... point is that neither of them should be in deep water in the first place.
As for Toyota's sales numbers, I don't know where you're getting that, but so far it is the only company that has higher 1/2 ton truck sales as of April. All others have sold less vehicles when compared to the same month last year. The truck market in general is getting hit hard because of gas prices. Not that Toyota is a threat to GM or Ford in this regard, but they are not as dependent on truck sales for revenue that the GM and Ford are.
However, this hit in sales may affect Ford the most since GM has new models this year. Truck buyers are pretty loyal to their brand, but there are always a few that will try something new!
As for buying American, suffice it to say that arguments have been made back and forth on what constitutes "American" any more. All companies have changed and I don't believe that competition has been detrimental to the Detroit3 in any way. I think the biggest drain on those companies has been the UAW. But, that's my personal opinion, not everyone will agree with me on this. There are obviously other reasons as well, but that stands out as the single largest drain on those companies.
People can buy what they want with their own money and find ways to justify it as they like. I do agree that actual Ford vs GM sales for trucks has favored GM for years and will continue to be that way for a long time. Ford is in severe financial trouble and will likely try to out-wait Chrysler in the battle of who folds first. Either way, there is probably less than 2 years left for either Ford or Chrysler before one goes under or is bought out by someone else. The landscape in this industry is going to change as a result.
Please explain how you can conclude that Silverado will outsell F-Series for 2007 based on those numbers? Or do you have a crystal ball you are looking into?
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/05/02/046375.html
Ford is in the unenviable position to not offer the same kind of incentives that competitors can. That is just one of a few reasons why their sales drop is more significant than anybody else's and why GM's sales drop is far less over the same period. Even if this were to continue (i.e. a level sales drop for the period) for the rest of the year for both Ford and Chevy, Chevy would come ahead because their sales drop is not even 5% of what Ford's is.
Add in GMC numbers and you can go back a few years before Ford ever eclipsed the two together. The Ford F-Series sales record is based on that technicality. In reality, Ford lost this battle going back well into the 90s.
In any case, the point is moot. Ford doesn't have much for options if it doesn't start showing a profit by the end of next year. They shouldn't be concerned with selling the most trucks -- they should be concerned with being able to sell them at a profit.
Apr 07 Apr 06 +/- CY 2007 CY 2006 +/-
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F-Series...56,692/ 64,749/ -12.4/ 228,343/ 264,550/ -13.7
Silverado..49,436/ 57,709/ -14.3/ 202,151/ 203,062/ -0.4
Ram........31,503/ 30,814/ +2.0/ 122,816/ 121,200/ +1.0
Sierra.....16,849/ 17,179/ -2.0/ 64,639/ 63,201/ +2.3
Tundra.....14,200/ 8,837/ +60.7/ 43,386/ 40,662/ +6.7
Titan.......4,922/ 6,425/ -17.0/ 23,769/ 27,702/ -14.2
Chevy had a down month, but is still close to breaking even on the year. Ford is consistently down, month and year.
kcram - Pickups Host
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F-Series...61,939/ 70,175/ -11.7/ 290,282/ 334,725/ -13.3
Silverado..63,790/ 55,316/ 10.9/ 265,941/ 258,378/ 2.9
Ram........31,327/ 29,599/ 6.0/ 154,143/ 150,799/ 2.0
Sierra.....19,467/ 17,756/ 5.4/ 84,106/ 80,957/ 3.9
Tundra.....17,727/ 7,974/ 113.8/ 61,113/ 48,636/ 24.7
Titan.......4,899/ 5,713/ -17.5/ 28,668/ 33,415/ -14.9
Mark LT.......670/ 957/ -30.0/ 3,576/ 5,576/ -35.9
(For those of you breaking out calculators, some manufacturers calculate percentage on daily sales rate, some do it by overall volume.)
kcram - Pickups Host
"Tundra sales were 17,727, up 122 percent."
http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/business/7789236.html
Bob
kcram - Pickups Host
I can see and understand his emotional feelings here, but to think his new GMC will be better than a new Chevy makes absoluely no sense. Maybe he expects the GMC "dealer" will treat him better—but that has nothing to do with the truck(s).
Bob
I see your point..perhaps it was a dealer thing. On the other hand...maybe he researched the liability of both trucks...since GMCs sale in smaller numbers...maybe liability issues show up in a smaller percentage? don't know..but I do know a truck with a bowtie in front was not an option for him...and regular cab f150s were hard for him to find at the local ford dealer..so he went with the sierra. I'm sure he can't be the only one that feels that way in america about a "rebadged" automobile. I'm just saying that speaks to the argument that the sierra/silverado should be counted as one truck versus the f150....by the way does anyone know if Ford counts its Lincoln truck as part of total f series sales..not that it would be a substantial number..put just interested in knowing....
Bob..I think "rational" is a bad choice of wording..how many people actually need a 1/2 ton pickup truck in America...Over 2 million every year...I doubt that one...vehicles are more emotional purchases I think.....with function as only one (although maybe a more important onr) of the factors that go into the purchase process
-----------------------------------------------------------
F-Series -- 65,156 / 65,452 / -0.5 / 355,438 / 400,177 / -11.2
Silverado -- 44,955 / 58,791 / -26.4 / 310,896 / 317,169 / -2.0
Ram -- 31,114 / 32,375 / -4.0 / 185,257 / 183,174 / 1.0
Sierra -- 15,187 / 20,661 / -29.2 / 99,293 / 101,618 / -2.3
Tundra -- 21,727 / 8,822 / 137.2 / 82,840 / 57,458 / 42.3
Titan -- 4,405 / 5,422 / -21.8 / 33,073 / 38,837 / -15.9
Mark LT -- 756 / 974 / -22.4 / 4,332 / 6,550 / -33.9
Some of the percentages will not appear mathematically correct, as some manufacturers (e.g. Toyota) post the sales rate in terms of units per selling day instead of overall totals. There was one extra day in June 2007 over June 2006.
kcram - Pickups Host
Bob
Even the latest GMC truck does not match the 2004 Ford in build sophistication. The regular cab does not have the rear access doors. Thre is no 6.5FT bed option on the crew cabs. There is no hydroforming of the front frame rails, there is no through welding on the frame cross members. No Quietsteel in the firewall, No optimized hotchkiss rear suspension with shocks mounted out board of the frame rails for greater stability. The 5.3 chevy push rod engine is way down on torque vs the 5.4 Triton and the 6.0L only has 10 lbft at great extra cost.
Where Ford might go for 09? Start with a 4.4L diesel. Also think 6 speed trans. There is also the possibility of IRS from the Expedition being used.
Ford even has some firsts for 08 planed including backup camera with viewer in the rear view mirror and the mid box storage option for Fleet.
Mark
Personally, I think there is still a significant part of the truck market that buys what their used to buying. Ford profits from that. It may not be great at much of anything, but it is familiar and people like that.
No question that the Silverado was much better than the Ford. But it wasn't that long ago that Ford buyers went to one bar and Chevy buyers went to another. So, it will be a number of years before the truck industry sees a shift based on features rather than loyalty in the truck segment purchasing behavior of the public.
For now, Ford can make the sales claim against Chevy, (excluding GMC sales) but their both bleeding truck sales... if Nissan and Toyota can make money with the limited numbers that they sell while GMC/Chevy/Ford/Dodge keep loosing money, I don't see how this numbers contest amounts to "winning" anything at all. Its a business, not a high-school popularity contest; and businesses need money to survive...
I disagree with your assessment of the trucks themselves...the Ford is certainly slow..but I think the interior and exterior are its real attributes over chevy(in 04, 05,06..the new one makes the playing field more even), nissan, and maybe even toyota (and your right..not as many people trust the Dodge..i.e...people buy what they are use to) I also felt the ride was way better..especially handling..most of the other trucks..except titan..felt very top heavy. Anyway..thats a matter of experience I guess..but I certainly agree with the latter part about what you said which was very important. Both truck lines are bleeding...and I think the problem might be their market. The biggest auto boom is going to take place not in this Country but in China over the next 20-25 years. If Ford/GM can convince the Chinese that they need pickups and that Fords/GMs are the best..they will be saved...If the Japanese coutnerparts convince the Chinese their pick ups and cars are superior..then that is bad. I know one thing...the American auto industry better stuff its face in the chinese market quick before the Chinese auto industry takes off as well...because the future is in the East! We better start producing or we are down the tube..not just two auto companies from detroit!
I agree that China poses the greatest threat for vehicle manufacturing. Fortunately they seem to be more receptive to American vehicles there, though I'm not sure if that will translate into real sales. GM seems to be doing quite well there, but I really do hope that the auto market here isn't taken over by the Chinese automakers. At least with Japanese/Korean automakers, we have plants and workers here that partially offset the money spent.
The 2006 struggles with a 8500lb load, now it can tow 11k, all of the sudden? :surprise:
DrFill
My 2002 F150 Lariat Supercrew with 66,250 miles spit out a spark plug while I was on vacation. Luck had it that it happened at a start up and not while under way in traffic, which would have seriously endangered my family; not to mention the fire hazard.
The servicing dealer (not my home dealer) and Ford Customer Care lead me to believe that this was an isolated case and that the spark plug blew out of the head because my home dealer had improperly replaced the plugs in my truck. As it turns out: the spark plugs in my truck were never replaced, they were in fact the factory plugs. After some research I also find out that certain Ford motors with aluminum heads are experiencing problems with spitting out spark plugs.
For more info on this problem and Ford's non-action go to:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/05/ford_techs_spark_plugs.html
There is lots of info out there about this problem and Ford's non action.
I know that I paid $2788.80 to have a new head installed in a vehicle with 66,250 miles; and I am only one of many that have experienced this problem. I also know that Ford Motor Company seems to be denying that any problem exists.
If Ford continues to do business like this, then it is no wonder that foreign companies are doing better in the marketplace. And that is too bad.
I've owned many Ford trucks, convinced two companies to switch their national van fleets to Ford, owned a 1950 Woody wagon, 1966 Mustang, and a 1966 Sunbeam Tiger (Ford motor and drive train).
My 2002 F150 may be the last Ford I ever own and I will never recommend a Ford to anybody.
I will however continue to do business with my local Ford dealer (Starkey Ford in York ME). They usually have a great selection of used Audi, Volvo, etc. They are a great dealer, it's too bad that Ford has faltered.
Up through 2002 the heads on the Triton engines were designed with only about 4 threads holding the spark plug. The heads are Aluminum, and if the plugs were torqued too tight, the threads are easily ruined, and then the plug pops. Also, if the plugs weren't tightened enough, then there aren't enough threads to hold it in place - the plug could eventually back off and blow out. The Heads have since been redesigned with more threads. (I believe about midway through 2002.)
The incidence of pitting plugs is low. But, considering that Ford has sold a few million of these engines, even if the incidence of blowing spark plugs is <1%, it's still a lot of motors.
Ford dealers will always say to replace the cylinder head in cases where you lost a plug; it's the only repair they'll warranty. However, there's an aftermarket repair kit out there called a "Timesert" that allows you to put new threads into the messed up spark plug opening. The kit with the special threaded insert, and installation tools costs ~$300, and the there's 2-3 hours of labor involved. From what I've read on other message boards, they seem to work fine for a great price.
Even though Ford manual says plugs don't have to be changed 'till 100K, it doesn't mean that you don't check them from time to time. I have a 2001 V-10. It's a knucklebuster, but I've pulled the plugs every 25K miles or so. I cleaned them, put on some anti-seize lube and then carefully tightened them to the specified 19 ft-lbs of torque.
morgan
All of our trucks have been purchased under commercial sales. If Ford lists you as a commercial sale then you do not get to give your opinion on the Ford website about the truck.
Ok, I have now got some of this off my chest. I have loved Ford trucks through the years and would like my next truck to be a Ford. Right now I just can't see it unless Ford turns around and gets back to a good design. I like 4x4 for my area and getting rid of the independent front suspension in favor of a solid axle was the worse move they could make. As I have said it is like driving a brick down a mountain.
The heavy duty payload package gets your up to 3050 in payload with the regcab. Try that with a Toyota.
Mark.
Regards,
Dusty
Even behind the seats (RC)! :surprise:
Too bad the '09 F-150 will just get warmed-over, and not redesigned like it needs. :sick:
DrFill
Explain why Toyota uses rivited cross members instead of through welded the way Ford does?
I'm sure peeps in the northeast will love how the C-channel frame on the Tundra rots from the inside out because it holds in road salt and debris.
Oh and Ford trucks were #1 in the Strategic Vision 2007 Total Quality Survey....
http://www.fordvehicles.com/features/news/detail/index.asp?id=1629
visit www.toptiergas.com
Mark.
wow, that really sucks, I really liked the ford untill i started having problems.
Thanks
R
And more safety equipment than any F-series in history.
And a V8 that doesn't suffer from asthma pulling a load (11k in your dreams, I need to get home today!).
Now you answer some questions.
Ford goes on and on about the size of the bolts they use, and indeed they are slightly larger than other trucks.
Is it truly just cost-cutting, when you use only six bolts to bolt the tow hitch to the frame, while Toyota uses a dozen bolts? Or are you just looking to lighten the load on an overtaxed engine? :confuse:
DrFill
Tundra 4 stars. Ok so maybe that is safety if you live in bizarro world.
DrFill
-----------------------------------------------------------
F-Series...56,488 / 68,982 / -18.1 / 411,926 / 469,159 / -12.2
Silverado..46,997 / 66,583 / -26.5 / 357,893 / 383,752 / -6.7
Ram........29,312 / 32,793 / -11.0 / 214,569 / 215,967 / -1.0
Sierra.....15,892 / 22,947 / -27.9 / 115,185 / 124,565 / -7.5
Tundra.....23,150 / 10,285 / 134.5 / 105,990 / 67,743 / 55.6
Titan.......5,708 / 5,691 / 4.5 / 38,781 / 44,528 / -13.4
Mark LT.......758 / 962 / -21.2 / 5,090 / 7,512 / -32.2
kcram - Pickups Host
That's pretty impressive...
Using larger pieces, especially fasteners, usually means a decrease in metal quality or heat treating. Its also cheaper in many cases.
Dusty