Kia Rondo Prices Paid and Buying Experience

alamocity · April 2008

You should be able to get internet quotes on the Rondo from dealerships in your area by going to the dealership's web site, though their initial quote may be MSRP with the standard come on in to the dealership. As for the price the key is to do your homework beforehand and know your price before stepping in the dealership.

wheelspin1 · April 2008

Just curious to know how many people bought their Rondo with the intention to keep it and how many leased with the intention of getting something else when the lease is up?

wheelspin1 · April 2008

my intention is to buy... assuming we don't decide on the Tuscon instead.

joeyjoejoe · April 2008

I think you could just say you are a Costco member to at least get an idea of what the car REALLY cost the dealer. I believe it was something like $100 over invoice or something. Then you can go from there when trying to "deal them down" a bit. I would also HIGHLY recommend e-mailing multiple dealers throughout your state and any neighboring states. It might be cheaper to actually head out of state to pick up a new vehicle. With e-mail's you also have proof of offers and can send them to other dealers to have them work against one another. Don't ever think you are "screwing" the dealer or anything. They are trying to get your money and you need to make it a game to keep as much from them as possible. Good luck! :shades:

lifterguy · June 2008

I just bought a new 2007 Kia Rondo - of course at this point they're offering big discounts to get rid of new cars that are more than a year old. My Rondo is a V-6 EX in Volcanic Red, with a beige leather interior. In addition to the leather package, it has the premium package (sunroof, Infinity radio, CD Changer), the bumper protector and the cross bars for the luggage rack. Seating is for 5, not 7. The original sticker was for $23,335, including destination charges. I paid $17,058, plus tax and license transfer fees. The paper work showed a selling price of $21,558 minus $4500 in incentives and rebates. The dealership (Jim Shorkey's Courtesy Kia, near Pittsburgh, PA) low balled me on my trade. Admittedly, it was not a very desirable car: a 2000 Dodge Stratus with 130,000 miles and a broken air conditioner. Book value on the Stratus was $1900. They only gave me $700. I could have kept it and tried to sell it myself, but I decided it wasn't worth the hassle. Overall, I'm happy with the car and the price I paid. I looked around a lot at both new and used and didn't see anything that came close to it for a combination of features, interior room and price.

neilusa · August 2008

I shopped around in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex area for a 4 cylinder with 3rd row seating. This was during the last few days of August 2008. I found that there were loads of 2008 (and 2007) five seat Rondos, but very few with the third row - which is understandable: they'd already been bought. I mean, why would anyone wish to buy a Rondo without the 3rd row? Isn't this the Rondo's raison d'etre?

Anyway, I got quotes from several dealerships for an LX (model 93222) with convenience package (CN), floor mats (CM), roof bars (CB) and of course 3rd row seats (TS).

Believe it or not, the spread of offers was $2,808. That is, the highest was $18,438 while the lowest was $15,630. These are total price excluding TT&L, and including the $2,000 Kia rebate available at the moment.

What was surprising was that the big TV advertisers - the one's who say that if they can't beat a new Kia deal they'll just give it to you - gave me some of the worst quotes, and REFUSED to honor their tag line from the TV comercials. It was the less well known companies who gave me the best three quotes, all in the upper $15,000s.

My wife and I accepted the offer from Huffine's Kia, McKinney, TX about 15 miles north of where we live. Before we arrived, Huffine's agreed that my wife and I could inspect the car and test drive it before committing to buy, however Huffine's had already agreed on the price. Including TT&L, this was to be $16,863. We had arranged a $7,000 loan from our bank and we were wanting to write a check for the remainder. The sales guy had said that we would need a certified check, but that we could take the car that evening and drop off the certified check the following day.

When we arrived, we were with Huffines for about 100 minutes, but the first half hour was taken up with our inspection and test drive. There was none of the expected upselling, or unexpected price changes, and we were not forced to look at any other cars. We agreed to let the finance guy look at alternative funding for our $7,000 loan.

The GM came to visit with us and I thought "Oh dear, here we go." But I needn't have worried - he thanked us for our business, made us some coffee, shook our hands again, and left.

Then we went in to see the finance guy. He told us that the 5% loan that we had preapproved from our bank was fabulous and that we should stick with our own bank. Then he said that there was no need to get a certified check - that he'd be happy to accept our personal check - which we duly gave him. And then we were with the sales guy at the front door with him showing my wife the controls.

A fantastic experience.

So what did we learn? Don't go into a single dealership and negotiate - get several prices. If you only want the 5 seat version you are in a buyers' market and should get a much better deal than us, especially if you take a 2007. If, like us, you want the 3rd row seats, beware, at least in Texas 2008s are currently in short supply and there are no 2007 3rd rows left so you will pay a premium. However, if you shop arround, you should still be able to get a few dollars below "invoice."

newkiaguy1 · August 2008

I'm pretty happy with the results of my purchase and the process I went through. This board was helpful to me so I thought I'd share my experiences for the next person...

1) Rented a lot of different cars for a day or a weekend. Including Prius and Rav4 (from dealer) and Kia Rondo (from Enterprise). Settled on Rondo, because price to value benefit seems highest. (10 year warranty help allay the lack of Consumer Reports maintenance track record.)

2) Got Costco referral. They want you to visit the dealer to get the quote. My local Kia dealer offered the car I wanted: dark grey, 4cyl, A/C, with 3rd row, convenience package, and bumper guard for $100 over invoice + a $350 "marketing fee". With the current $1500 NorthWest region rebate, my price would be $17400 (before tax and license) out the door (if I took this deal)
I used this dealer to test drive the exact model I wanted, asked if they would negotiate on the price (they said no), and said thanks.
(There is also a $2000 rebate if you own a "Competitive car". I was really peeved that my car was not on the list. Be careful when you see an ad because, if you see a price, the dealer's will all list EVERY rebate in the book, even if you are not eligible.)

3) Used Yahoo Autos to get other dealers in the (Portland, OR) area and as far north as Seattle. Each time you do this (or with Costco), you'll get a call within 15 mins, so be ready. I told them I was done shopping and ready to buy. They want you to come in but I told them that I was not sure it would be worth it, etc. I wanted them to name a price over the phone or email me.
They will ask you for a number, but don't give one unless you want to really buy at that price. Originally, I thought that I would be happy with $17000 but that, it turns out, would have been stupid.
Tell them you know the costco price but know they can do WAY better. Ask for their "One at ..." priced car. Ask for the car in any color. Just get a price that rocks you. One of them (I tried about 3) will do this. I got it to $17000 no problem.

4) That was too easy, so let's try 16650. One guy actually had the car I wanted at 16450 ("one at...") but the wrong color and 200 miles away from me. So I tried the 2 local dealers I was working with and was not getting much luck.

5) I spread the net a little wider with Yahoo Autos...querying ALL of the local dealers who had this car in inventory (I checked their websites first) to make a bid. I told them I had the car I wanted at the price I wanted, but it was 200 miles away and if could get me that car in my color, it's a done deal.

6) There is this part where we email back and forth and forth a lot. Some guys say they are losing money, others seem really nice and others are all business. Anyway, this part is not the most pleasant, but at least you are not in their office doing this! I was always honest with these guys, btw...no need to lie about the prices you are getting. (Some will insist to see the quotes from the other dealers so that's another reason to not lie.)
One guy came right back and told me he could beat the 16450. After just a bit more time, he offered it to me for 16250 out the door. I asked for a faxed invoice, he did it, and I told him I'd be right there. I insisted on "no games" once I go there and they were really prompt. (For me, going to a car dealer is like going to the hospital emergency room--the less time there , the better.) I called them on the way down there with my info, they had the paperwork all ready to go, and I was in and out in 30 mins. (I paid cash)

7) When I got home, I found messages from the other dealer I was working with had offered it to me for 16497.

Summary:
Rent the car first to know what you want,
Get Costco price - you may need to visit one dealer for this (and to know the options you want)
Use Yahoo Autos to get other dealers,
Work with them over the phone and via email--No reason to go to their office
When you get a price you like and agree verbally, honor your side of the deal and get down there to the dealership and buy.

Happy hunting!

garnermike · September 2008

...last 5 cars, including my Rondo. Start with an internet or sales club inquiry. Talk. Go to another internet service for a wider net. Negotiate. Insist on no nonsense, that you're buying cash and are close to a decision. Once you've rented or test driven for a while, no need to get behind the wheel again with any dealer.

My Rondo dealer was so convinced I would walk if they weren't business-like, cooperative and efficient, they offered to deliver the car to my driveway, on a holiday weekend. And they did; I signed the paper work in my living room

You got a great price for a great car. Pretty much identical to mine.
Good luck!

CarMan@Edmunds · September 2008

Wow, thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed description of your purchase, newkiaguy1. If you'd like, you can stop by the Dealer Ratings & Reviews section of Edmunds.com to share your thoughts on your recent dealer experience as well. Enjoy your new Rondo

!

Car_man
Host
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

Karen_S · October 2008

A reporter from a national newspaper would like to speak to consumers who recently purchased a new small or mid-sized car and either got great financing or cash back/incentives offered to them . If this is you, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime phone number by Wednesday, October 8, 2008.

john1234 · October 2008

I have decided I want a 2008 Rondo EX 6 cyl. with Urban Grey exterior and Black interior. I have searched inventories online of local dealers and none have one. The dealership I have taken test drives at said they could find one for me, but basically wanted sticker price for it. I do have a 2002 Dodge Caravan I want to trade in. The Edmonds What others are paying price is 18815. Tax here is 6% plus $50. I am trying to get this for $17000 and my trade.
Any comments?

sra1 · October 2008

Don't know where you are, but, you ought to be able to get at least $2,500.00 off MSRP on an 08 model.

I'd try another dealer.

john1234 · October 2008

I'm in Tampa, FL. I have sent email inquires to other Kia dealers in the area, and they have already started to call. It makes it harder that I have a trade, but I'm going to get a price first before going in with my trade.

irismg · February 2009

I wonder, how would this procedure have changed/complicated if there had been a trade?

newkiaguy1 · February 2009

If you are trading in, you are at a complete disadvantage. Why? Because you are simultaneously negotiating on two separate things and the complexity of the transaction is seriously compounded.

They can give you a deal on your new car and screw you on the trade in, for example. And the new car salesman will blame the used car appraiser guy.

My advice: don't do it. Sell your old car on your own. Or sell it to the dealer later, if you must.

irismg · February 2009

Food for thought, thanks! As old as mine is now, I might be better off letting PBS or NPR come take it for their fund drive.

smoothsailin · February 2009

My purchasing experience was generally positive when dealing with Pence Kia of Richmond, VA.

I researched dealer inventories online within a hundred miles and found two cars at Pence that interested my wife & I. Both were '08 white V6 models, one an LX w/options & the other an EX with even more options.

After submitting e-mail inquiries I quickly received a call from a Pence salesman and made an appointment for my wife & I to test drive the two '08 Rondos along with an '09 Optima as a basis for comparison. Before arriving I researched the available incentives ($4k manufacturer's rebate offered for remaining '08 Rondos and Optimas) and also used Edmonds to come up with and print reports reflecting their TMV (true market values) for some comparable vehicles equipped with some of the options packages we might consider.

After test driving three vehicles we decided to make an offer for the white LX V6 equipped with the following options (note: options prices are listed @ MSRP):
Third row seating ($500)
Convenience package ($300)
Floor mats-7-passenger ($95)
Rear bumper protector ($65)
Michelin tire upgrade ($60).

Total MSRP for the vehicle per the window sticker was $20,565

I initially made an offer to purchase the vehicle for $15k, or $19k less the $4k rebate. Also asked the dealership to appraise and make a trade-in offer for one of our vehicles ('99 BMW 323ic convertible in very good condition with ~ 87k miles)

Although the offer we received for our vehicle was imo ridiculously low ($4k...or just over 1/2 the estimated KBB trade-in value for the vehicle), the sales manager said he would be willing to sell the Rondo @ dealer invoice, or $19,088, less the $4k rebate (before taxes, dealer fees, etc.). After some discussion my wife & I agreed to accept this offer.

As a result the net discount we received under MSRP calculates to $5,477 (26.63%). Although retrospectively I wish our initial offer had been lower, all-in-all we're very pleased with the price negotiated to purchase our Rondo.

The only negative aspect of our experience came after signing all the paperwork (rather late in the evening after an awfully long day). The next morning when reviewing everything again I realized that a $199 fee was reflected on the invoice with the caption "etching". Unfortunately my wife and I failed to notice this charge before signing the paperwork the prior evening.

After making a phone to contest the charge with the salesman first thing next morning, when I arrived to take delivery of the car that afternoon the finance manager was prepared re-do the paperwork in order to remove the etching charge. She also stated that she'd gone over the etching service with us the prior evening. While admittedly I'd agree that there had been some discussion with her in this regard, both my wife and I discussed and agreed that neither the salesman, sales manager or finance person had told us the etching was optional-or that we'd be charged $199 for the service. As a result my wife & I were under the impression that since the etching had already been done to the car it was covered by the offer we'd accepted to purchase the same. So due to some carelessness on our part and perhaps an (intentional or unintentional) failure by dealership employees to clearly disclose the fee we'd be charged for the add-on, we'd overlooked the fee initially.

During these discussions the finance manager told me that all their vehicles had their windshields etched upon arrival. To this I responded that when I made an offer to purchase the Rondo it was with the understanding of being inclusive of all options which were already on the vehicle. As a result in my opinion we should not have been charged an additional amount because the the dealership had already etched the car's windows before my offer was submitted.

However, in retrospect I now believe the fee charged in connection w/the etching may have not have been intended as a reflection of the cost for the glass etching service itself, but perhaps to be associated as a service for registering the etched number with a nationalwide database with law enforcement for a hopefully quick recovery should be vehicle be stolen.

In any case in my opinion this etching service represents pure profit for the dealership since I can (and will) determine and record the identification number etched in the glass for my own records just in case the vehicle might be stolen.

Finally, I have noted that charges for the standard "dealership processing fees for consumer services" seem to have increased significantly since I purchased my last new vehicle in 2005. I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall paying $199 for this when I purchased my Mazda 3 (from Whitten Brothers Mazda) in March 2005. Contrastingly the processing fee we were charged by Pence Kia was approximately twice this @ $399 + $10 as an "online system filing fee". Again, in my opinion these fees represent almost pure profit for the dealership. I seem to recall reading in some of Consumer Reports recommendations for auto purchase negotiations that dealerships are generally reimbursed for these services by most (if not all) auto manufacturers.

Again, retrospectively now wish I'd attempted to negotiate reductions in these fees. However, all-in-all I'm still pleased with the deal we obtained for our '08 Rondo LX V6.

Hope this information proves helpful to anyone who may be in the market for one of these vehicles. Note that it's my understanding the $4k rebate currently available for leftover '08 Rondos along with some other '08 Kia models is due to expire on March 31. In any case I would expect any remaining '08s could go fast.

Good luck!

smoothsailin · March 2009

Follow up...

Since posting my prior message I've read through the bulk of the comments posted on this thread. Based on what others have paid for their Rondos it sure seems like the $15,088 (after rebates, but before taxes and fees) we paid for our '08 LX V6 equipped with approximately $1.2k in options (@MSRP) was a very good deal. I only wish I'd found and had opportunity to read comments on this forum before negotiating a deal for my Rondo. Had I done so believe we probably could have negotiated the final balance due down by another $300 to $1,300 since I had failed to recognize and factor in the following:

Since we were negotiating the purchase only a few days before the end of the month, pressure on the sales staff to meet monthly targets probably was somewhat high-giving them greater incentives to make the sale.

Also still believe what we ended up paying for "dealer processing fees" was excessive @ $409. At a minum I should have demanded there be at least a 50% reduction against this "pure profit" markup.

Also believe we could have negotiated a sale price below dealer invoice because 1) our car was an '08 model and b) there probably were hidden factory-to-dealer incentives in place to improve the dealer's profit potential and to move the remaining '08's off their lot.

Finally, before purchasing my last car in '05 I paid $10 to subscribe to Consumer Reports auto pricing service. Had I done so this time some of the above information may have been available to allow me to be better informed before I initiated negotiations.

Also, I've been surprised to read about some of the other fees and charges buyers in other areas have apparently been saddled with, including $350-500+ for "regional marketing", "AMA", and other similarly questionable markups over MSRP pricing on the window stickers. Good grief.

Still, we're still pleased with the deal we ended up with at just over $16k out the door...and with the build and driving quality of our new Rondo.

I'll also mention that our Rondo will be replacing our still trusty, but fairly high mileage (158k mile '98 Toyota Sienna XLE). Only time and a few thousand break-in miles will decide whether the lighter (by approx. 5-600 lbs) Rondo with a slightly smaller and less powerful (2.7 L vs Sienna's 3.0 L) v-6 will prove to me noticeably more economical on gas than our Sienna. Of course how, where and who's doing the driving may affect these results the most in my experience.

Although historically I've driven our Sienna fairly rarely, when I've done so on family trips I've gotten as high as 28 mpg (500 miles on one tank with approximately 400 miles on the highway and 100 miles in town), or around 24 mpg when commuting to work at 27 miles each way with about 50% highwy and 50% on rural and suburban roads with quite a few stoplight intersections. Contrastingly, my wife has only topped 22 mpg once in my experience (during a lengthy day trip), and rarely manges over 20 mpg otherwise. In most cases all she has seemed to manage have been 17-19 mpg tanks winter or summer.

Hopefully she'll do better in the future with our Rondo!

garnermike · March 2009

Your got a helluva deal on that car. By comparison, I paid $16K for my 2007 LX 17 months ago.

Can't talk to what kind of mpg you might get with the V-6, as I have the I-4/2.4L engine. But I'm doing 20 (pure city), 24 (mix) and 28 (pure hwy).

alamocity · March 2009

Yes, the dealers currently have great deals going on for both the 08 Optima and Rondo's, as an example the 4 cylinder LX model moderately equipped can be bought for less than $14,000 easily. As for gas mileage from what I've seen on the kia forum gas mileage seems to be running about 22MPG combined with a noticeable drop off occurring from 70 MPH on up.

tsm280z · March 2009

smoothsailin

Please keep us posted on your gas mileage.My 07 EX V6 gets horrible mileage...14-15 city and maybe 21-22 highway. :mad:

bobw3 · March 2009

Since the dealer will make about $5000 on your trade-in, I'm not surprised he offered you invoice minus rebates. The doc fees do seem pretty high.

smoothsailin · March 2009

Will do.

I'm hopeful our Rondo will be somewhat more fuel efficient than our '98 Toyota Sienna. I consider myself a "closet" hypermiler" and will be quite disappointed if I'm unable to manage 30+ mpg with our Rondo on the highway at 60-65 mph after break-in. In all honesty though all the complaints I've read from owners concerning poor fuel economy results from their V-6 Rondos gives me pause.

My current commuter vehicle is a '05 Mazda 3i (2.0 L w/5-speed manual). When I purchased the car the EPA hwy rating was 35 mpg and since the revisions were made to the EPA test procedures the 3i manual has been rated for 32 mpg highway. My 3i recently passed the 60k mile mark and average mpg based on all fillups since purchase is now 38.6 mpg-or nearly 7 mpg more than the car's current EPA highway rating. The lowest tank I've calculated with my 3i was better than 32 mpg for the first fill up and during the break-in period. Note: all of my 3i's results are available for viewing at www.brianbauer.org. Look for results for 2005 Mazda3 2.0 L w/manual transmission. My car's results are the ones from Chesterfield, VA. I'm planning to post mpg results for our Rondo on this site too.

Note that I did consider the 4-cylinder version of the Rondo but since the EPA highway ratings were the same for both with the v-6 turning in 2 mpg less in the city cycle I didn't feel the difference between the two was significant fuel-economy wise. On the other hand after test driving a 6-cylinder Rondo, then a 4-cylinder Optima followed by another 6-cylinder Rondo I felt the 6-cylinder was noticeably quieter, smoother and generally more refined compared to the I-4. I also feel a 5-speed automatic offers increased flexibility and taller highway gearing over a 4-speed. On the other hand, the Optima we test drove (an '09 I-4 w/5-speed automatic...EPA highway rating 32 mpg) did appear to cruise a bit more "freely" on level ground in top gear than either of the 6-cylinder Rondos we drove. Of course, I'm also fairly sure that the Rondo outweighs the Optima by a few hundred pounds too. Still, if the dealership had a light-colored I-4 powered Rondo on the lot I would have taken it for a test drive. However, there was only one 4-cylinder Rondo on the lot and it was a dark color.

I also realize the '08 v-6 is only rated for 20 more hp and 20 more ft/lb of torque over the '08 I-4. From what I've read both engines were re-tuned for higher output for 2009 models, but there were no '09 Rondo's on the lot when I was shopping. In any case I would not have been willing to forego the $4k rebate in order to gain a few more hp-and the v-6 versions EPA ratings are unchanged for '09.

I'm also curious if those owners who have been getting poor mpg results with their v-6 Rondos were careful to follow the break-in recommendations listed in the owners manual. I've noted that after stating no special break-in procedure is needed, Kia does recommend some precautions over the first 600 miles, including:
Keep engine speeds between 2k and 4k rpm
Don't maintain a constant speed for long periods ("Varying engine speed is needed to properly break in the engine")
Avoid allowing the engine to idle longer than 3 minutes at a time.

Frankly, with the automatic transmission I don't see how any owner could follow these recommendations if they simply shift the transmission into "drive" and leave it there. I've also been surprised by all the posts I've read from owners (both on this forum and others) who drove their vehicles off the dealer's lot and immediately took them on fairly long highway trips-implying these new engines were most-likely broken-in by driving at steady speeds w/the cruise control set. To me that's exactly what most manufacturers recommend AGAINST!

As a result I've been keeping my Rondos transmission selector in sportmatic mode most of the time so that I my choose and vary the transmission shift points, maintain engine rpm in the recommended range generally avoid the allowing the transmission to select the relatively tall 5th gear during the break-in period. Except when you're maintaining 55+ mph on the highway the only other time engine rpm in a v-6 Rondo will be over 2k rpm with the transmission in "D" is while the vehicle is accelerating in the lower gears. Of course doing these things lowers fuel economy, but I'm hopeful the long term benefits will be well worth sacrificing some fuel economy over the first few tanks.

My Rondo is approaching the 300 mile-mark now (the odometer showed 17 miles when we took it for a test drive) and subjectively I feel the engine seems to be running smoother at idle and spinning more freely as the number of miles add up. In any case I'm hoping a careful break-in will pay dividends in engine longevity and fuel economy over the long haul as it has with the other engines I've broken-in this way. Of course I may be deluding myself as I've read that with the tight manufacturing tolerances used today there's little need to treat a new engine any differently than you would normally. In any case, if my Rondo's engine turns out to be a disappointment down the road at least I'll know for that it was not due to a failure to follow the manufacturer's recommendations during the break-in period.

smoothsailin · March 2009

I refused the dealership's "low-ball" trade-in offer and plan to sell my '99 BMW 323ic convertible myself once the spring fever demand for convertibles ramps up. Hopefully the economy will be on the rise by then as well.

Of course, when it warms up I'll also be less motivated to get rid of the convertible. Although it's not very practical for a family the BMW's smooth I-6, great handling and drop-top do combine to make it an awfully fun car to drive on a mild, sunny day!

bobw3 · March 2009

As a previous Mazda owner, what made you go for the Rondo over the Mazda5? Just curoius.

ramblinmo · March 2009

I chose the 4cylinder over the 6 cylinder because

1) A bit better gas mileage
2) No timing belt to replace
3) 4 cylinder had all the power I would ever use

I really don't think the break in driving habits will result in any differences in final MPG you get with a 6 cylinder.

My 07 4 cylinder has averaged in the low 30's for long trips and 25-26 average for my use which consists of a few short trips to the local store and 15 to 20 mile cruises on back roads at average speed of 40 mph.

This is not my commuter car.

newkiaguy1 · March 2009

You can read my other posts (seach on my name) and you'll see that I was so pleased with myself with good deal I got on the Rondo.

The car seems to be well-designed, but, boy, is that deceiving -- it is crappy.

Wind noise, rattles, hesitation, bad smell, leaking oil (dealer replaced tranny!). Just a bucket of stuff you dont need when you have a new car. I have heard that some people only buy one American car in their life because it was a loser...I'm definitely there with Kia (and, just to e safe, Hyundai)

If someone wants to give me 12K for it (Portland, OR) at 6K miles, I'll take it. !!!

smoothsailin · March 2009

My wife and I test drove a Mazda 5 and generally liked it. However, as a member of the Mazda 3 forums I've read a lot of negative comments about the Mazda 2.3 L I-4's relatively poor fuel economy-especially when mated to an automatic transmission. That said, since the 5-speed automatic became available owner complaints about poor mpg w/the 2.3 L automatics have dropped somewhat, but have not been eliminated entirely. Of course, based on what I've read on this forum there also seem to be more than a few owners complaining about their mpg results with Kia's 2.7 L V-6, I'm also aware that EPA ratings for the Rondo v-6 are a bit lower than those for the Mazda5 automatics. Another factor was pricing. The "reasonably equipped" Mazda5 we test drove stickered @ around $22.5k as I recall. So even after deducting Mazda's current mfg rebate ($1k "owner loyalty) I expect the best deal we might been able to negotiate for that car would probably have been in high $19k-over $20k range. Again, I paid $15,088 for our brand-new '08 Rondo (17 miles on the odometer before our test drive) before taxes and dealer fees.

If I could have found a Mazda5 locally in a light color with the 5-speed manual it possibly might have tipped the scales in favor of Mazda. But according to the Mazda salesmen I've spoken to, finding a Mazda5 equipped w/the manual transmission can be difficult since demand for the automatic is higher and the manual is only offered in the Sport (basic) version.

In hindsight, had I researched the Rondo more thoroughly and aware of the owner complaints I might have decided against purchasing one...or at chosen not to have purchased one w/the V6. Still, I've read far more favorable comments from Rondo owners than negative ones. Another reason why we ended up with a V-6 version was due to the fact that we were unable to locate an '08 equipped with the I-4 in a light color and otherwise equipped the way we wanted.

In any case after being carefully broken in by me, our Rondo will driven by my wife most of the time and she told me that she preferred the Rondo's attributes and driving character over the other vehicles we considered. Note that she had never looked at or test driven a Rondo before the day we ended up purchasing ours.

Both of us did like the Honda Fit, but had decided it would probably be too small to serve well as a family vehicle. Also the Honda salesman quickly quashed any hopes of negotiating a good deal for one, saying Honda had never offered any promotions for the car and stating that dealer invoice was within $500 of the car's MSRP. Based on this it seemed the best deal we might be able to manage for a manual-transmission Honda Fit Sport would probably fall in the mid-to-high $16k range, before taxes and dealer fees..

We also considered Scion's xD and xB, but like the Fit ended up ruling out the xD as too small and my wife wasn't crazy about the larger, but more boxy xB's styling.

Ultimately we ended up deciding to purchase our Rondo without test driving either Scion...and paid less for our fairly well-equipped Rondo LX V6 than the non-negotiable base prices listed for either of the two Scions.

I'll also mention that my wife test drove a Chevy HHR, but quickly dropped it to the bottom of her list of possible choices. In short, she didn't care for the way it drove, both of us felt the build quality was substandard, and felt the interior was somewhat cheap and "plasticky".

My wife did like the '09 Hyundai Sonata (test drove an I-4 w/5 speed manual) as well as the similar '09 Optima (test drove an I-4 w/5 speed auto). But we both liked the Rondo's higher driving position (similar to our '98 Sienna minivan) along with greater passenger capacity w/the optional third row and & imo superior versatility for carrying cargo and passengers. I did feel that the seats in the Sonata and Optima were slightly cushier, more comfortable and form-fitting than those in the Rondo.

In the end it was the Kia's $4k mfg rebate offer for remaining '08 models along with our dealer's willingness to accept my offer to purchase the car at dealer invoice that ultimately sealed our decision. I'll also say that Kia's superior warranty also played a part, but was not the deciding factor. Had there been a '08 Optima on the lot equipped the way we want it's possible that could have ended up being our choice.

Only time will tell if we may end up regretting our decision to buy the Rondo, but so far at least we've been quite pleased the vehicle. For the first tank I'm predicting mpg may fall in the low-to-mid 20's. As of this morning I've driven it a bit over 300 miles and am expecting to manage another 25-40 miles before the gas gauge will drop to "E". When it does, if the tank ends up swallowing ~13.5 gallons after ~335 miles driven, the tank average should calculate to ~ 25 mpg. Since I've been generally been staying out of 5th gear and varying engine rpm a lot while breaking in the engine, I'm not expecting the 1st tank's mpg results to be stellar in any case.

smoothsailin · March 2009

Based on what I've read it appears the majority of those who chose the I-4 w/4-speed automatic powertrain have like you been reasonably satisfied with their Rondo's general performance and fuel economy results.

I also agree w/you that an engine equipped with a timing chain has some advantages over one equipped with a reinforced rubber timing belt. One thing I want to learn is whether or not my Kia's 2.7 L V-6 could be subject to catastrophic engine failure caused by to piston/valve clearance issues should the timing belt fail.

Our '98 Toyota Sienna's 3.0 L V-6 is also equipped has a timing belt, but my parent's 2nd generation '04 Sienna's 3.4 L V-6 is equipped with a timing chain. In any case according to what I've read should the timing belt or chain in either Siennas' fail the engine would simply stop running and would not suffer internal damage caused by clearance issues.

However, judging from what I've read I have doubts whether the same may be true of my Kia's V-6. As far as I know among Japanese and Korean auto manufacturers, Toyota engines (most of them anyway) are designed to avoid clearance issues between valves and pistons should the timing belts, or chains break. Most, if not all engines manufactured for Nissans, Hondas, Mitsubishis, etc. can suffer serious damage if their timing belts or chains should fail.

As far as whether or not the precautions I've been taking during the preliminary engine break-in period will make any difference, you could be right. However taking steps to carefully stick to the manufacturer's recommendations for the break-in period simply seems to make sense (at least to me). In any case I've had excellent results with my other new engines after using similar methods during the initial break-in period for those.

tsm280z · March 2009

I too was very careful during the break-in period ... followed the directions in the Owners manual, checked tire pressure, drove like I had an egg between my foot and the gas pedal, etc., etc. I even told my "lead foot" wife not to drive it during the break-in. I now have 8,000 miles on it and still get lousy mileage.
Other than that, it's a great car ... very pleased with it.
Good luck with yours.

smoothsailin · March 2009

Sorry to hear you've been so dissatisfied with your Kia newkiaguy1.

It's still to early to know whether or not we may suffer similar issues with our Rondo, but based on all the favorable reviews I've read from other owners I'm hoping the odds will be in my favor that this won't turn out to be the case.

As with any mass-produced product it's inevitable that some few bad examples may manage to get past all the quality control inspections despite having some problems.

In any case I'm hopeful the Rondo I carefully test drove and inspected before purchase proves to be better-built than the one you unfortunately ended up with.

So far the only quality-related issues I've noticed have been with a relatively weak seat-belt retractor mechanism for the driver's seat and some difficulty it retrieving and re-positioning the belt latches in the rear seats after they've been folded. Some of this of course may simply be the result of an initial lack of familiarity w/the vehicle and how things are supposed to work.

smoothsailin · March 2009

It's great to hear you're pleased with your Rondo-except for "lousy mileage" tsm280z.

Unfortunately, based on your experience the care I've been taking to follow the break-in recommendations may not necessarily prove to be beneficial. Oh well-I'll just have to wait and see.

I've also read your posts concerning window fogging issues and experienced similar issues last weekend while having six passengers in the car while driving back from dinner on a cold (high-30's deg. F) night in steady rain. In my case I found that after selecting one of the first two (ie farthest clockwise) vent positions seemed to take care of the fogging issues-at least for the most part. I believe the car's air conditioner compressor is designed to engage automatically when one of the first few defog/defrost vent positions are selected when outside temperatures are above freezing. Unfortunately, my '05 Mazda3's HVAC system is designed
so that the a/c compressor will run automatically whenever one of the defrost OR FLOOR vent positions are selected. Imo having the a/c run when all you want to do is warm your toes seems asinine. It seems Mazda chose to engineer their cars this way because when the floor vent position is selected some air is still directed toward the windshield. Hence, the decision to produce air dried by the a/c for superior defogging characteristics. Personally, I'd prefer to be allowed the option to turn the a/c on or off as needed via the button. My guess is a fear of product liability lawsuits should drivers be involved in accidents who claim their car's wouldn't defog the windows effectively may be behind some of the auto a/c designs.

One suggestion I would make for hopefully improving your problem would be to clean the inside glass very carefully, followed by the use of an anti-fog product or wipe. In my experience the plastic surfaces and other materials in new cars tends to produce a gas (that "new car smell") which can show up as a film on the windows-and these films can encourage fogging issues. I've also found that the application of vinyl protectants (like Armor-All) can similarly lead to a buildup of a film inside the windows-particularly after the car's surfaces have been heated by being parked in the sun.

I'm fairly sure that Rain-X and companies which produce similar products offer disposable wipes and cleaners designed to combat windshield fogging issues.

Hope this helps!

Btw, 25 years ago I used to own a '74 260z. Still miss that car sometimes.

conwelpic · March 2009

the a/c kicks in in the defrost position with the heat, as you suggest to dry the air, however, it can be turned off if you wish (on Canadian models, but I think its the same for the US). I prefer it to be on, as they suggest that you run your a/c at least once a month for better operation, this way I don't have to remember to do it.

tsm280z · March 2009

I fixed the fogging issue based on the advice of another Kia owner on this site.
I just had to reset the automatic controls (as described in the owners manual ... must of skipped that page). Haven't had a problem since.
Ya, I miss my 280Z also ... best car I've ever owned.

smoothsailin · March 2009

I realize this isn't the correct thread for posting fuel economy results, but since you've requested that I keep you posted tsm280z here's what I calculated after filling my '08 2.7L V-6 Rondo's tank for the first time during the drive home from work yesterday:

Note:
These results are based on the estimated mileage driven since the dealer filled the car's tank for the 1st time before I took delivery on 2/26.

When we returned from our test drive the odometer reflected ~ 25 miles and there were ~ 27 miles on the odometer when I drove the car away from the dealer's lot. So I'm splitting the difference and assuming there were ~ 26 miles on the car when it was filled up for the first time.

Ending mileage when I filled up last night: 350 (per the odometer) & 350.7 (per tripmeter

.

Estimated mileage driven for the 1st tank: 324 miles (350-26)

Fuel volume per pump receipt: 12.857 gallons

Note: I filled the tank at less than the maximum rate just until the automatic shut off engaged and did not attempt to add any more fuel. I also noticed the low fuel light illuminated just as I pulled up to a stop light immediately ahead of the Shell station where I stopped to fill up.

After subtracting the # gallons required to fill the tank from the car's rated capacity (15.8 gal ?) I'm assuming the volume of gas left when the low fuel light first illuminates may be a little less than 3 gallons. Has anyone else reached a similar conclusion?

Average fuel economy estimated for this 1st tank:

25.2 mpg (324 miles/12.857 gal)

Note that I generally avoided the use of 5th gear and only drove approximately 20% of the miles on the freeway. The rest of the miles were driven on rural & suburban roads replete w/multiple stop sign and stop light intersections. I also tried to keep the engine rpm between 2k & 4k rpm while varying the rpm regularly by shifting gears in sportmatic mode both while traveling at relatively steady speeds and while accelerating in order to vary how high engine rpm was allowed to rise before each taller gear was allowed to engage. I maintained light throttle applications and operation of the engine above 4k rpm has so far been avoided. Also, with one exception I generally avoided making any short trips of less than 10 miles.

Note: I have set up categories for posting results for the '07-'09 Rondos at www.brianbauer.org and intend to post my car's fuel economy results there from now on. If other Rondo owners (I-4 and V-6) would be willing to register and post their results at this site (registration is free) we could building database which could be useful reference tool for current and potential owners who may be interested seeing real-world results for owners of I-4 and V-6 equipped Rondos.

I'll mention that my wife also filled up our '98 Toyota Sienna yesterday and just for comparison her result for that vehicle was:

281.4 miles/15.562 gal = 18.082 mpg.

So far I'm pleased w/our Rondo's preliminary fuel economy results.

From now on I plan to post any fuel economy-related comments on the forum's thread already set up for this purpose.

Carey

smoothsailin · March 2009

Thanks for the info conwelpic.

I'll have to read the hvac section of the owners manual again and experiment to confirm or deny your claim that there is a provision for U.S.owners to turn off the auto a/c compressor engagement feature when one of the windshield defog/defrost mode vent positions is selected.

Based on my experiences with other cars (Toyota and Mazda) I'll be surprised if this is the case. So far I haven't noticed the a/c light illuminate when one of the defrost vent positions are selected even though judging from how the defogging performance improved it seemed to me that the compressor must have engaged behind the scenes.

As far as running the compressor occasionally in winter I make it a habit to turn on the compressor for a few minutes after every-other fill up to keep the seals and comonents well lubricated.

I'm not a fan of the U.S. auto manufacturers' tendency over at least the past 10 years or so to engineer the vent controls so that the a/c compressor will engage automatically when certain vent positions are selected...and generally only when outside temperatures are above freezing.

Personally, I prefer to have full control of when my vehicles' a/c compressors may be engaged. Allowing the compressors to run un-noticed behind the scenes can lower fuel economy and performance unnecessarily and may also contribute to unnecessary and premature wear of the a/c components.

conwelpic · March 2009

in my '08 manual its on page 4-80 and I quote:
"Defogging logic
To reduce the probability of fogging up the inside of the windshield, the air intake
is controlled automatically according to certain conditions such as (def/foot symbol) or (full defrost symbol) position. To cancel or return the defogging logic, do the following.
Manual climate control system
1. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
2. Turn the mode selection knob to thedefrost position.
3. Push the air intake control button at least 5 times within 3 seconds.
The indicator light in the air intake control button will blink 3 times with 0.5 second
of interval. It indicates that the defogging logic is canceled or returned to the programmed status.

Automatic climate control system
1. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
2. Select the defrost position pressing defrost button ( ).
3. While holding the air conditioning button (A/C) pressed, press the air intake
control button ( ) at least 5 times within 3 seconds.
The A/C display blinks 3 times with 0.5 second of interval. It indicates that the
defogging logic is canceled or returned to the programmed status.
If the battery has been discharged or disconnected, it resets to the defog logic
status.

Personally from what limited use the a/c is operated in under these conditions I can't see if having much effect with performance (I can't tell from engine sound if its even kicked in, unlike my previous vehicle where you really noticed it) and economy or premature wear. If you live in areas of North America without winter conditions your a/c is being used a lot more than areas that maybe only have much use for it 6 months of the year. However, like I said its your choice.

aalsherri · March 2009

I bought a brand new 2008 LX I4 automatic with the convenience package for $13,800 out of the door. The price of the car was about $12.4K

alamocity · March 2009

Sounds like you got a great deal, seems like dealers really want to move them out. Best I've seen here is $14,675.

smoothsailin · March 2009

Thanks for the reply conwelpic. However, the procedures you quoted only appear to affect whether the car's hvac system automatically selects fresh air over recirculate when the vent selector is set to one of the defrost positions. Judging from the instructions I see no indication that either option would affect whether the a/c may be engaged automatically.

However at this point I'm not entirely sure the a/c compressor DOES engage automatically in the Rondo when a defrost vent position is selected. It's just that last weekend I noted how the windows defogged fairly quickly once I selected defrost and increased the fan speed. So based only on how effectively the system performed I assumed the compressor had engaged, but so far I really haven't confirmed this assumption.

Also, I agree with you that when the a/c compressor engages in my Rondo it's barely noticeable and the compressor does seem to be much quieter than any of the those installed in my other cars. For this I say kudos to Kia for the improved and more refined a/c operation!

When driving my 2.0L 5-speed manual '05 Mazda 3i if the compressor engages it's clearly audible and if you happen to be climbing a grade in top gear at low rpm or accelerating when it does the effect on performance is akin to throwing out an anchor!

As far as the automatic a/c engagement goes, all I'm saying is I'd prefer to have total control over when the a/c compressor can engage. There are plenty of situations where you might want to direct air toward the windshield when neither cooling nor drying of the air is really necessary. In such situations I'd prefer to avoid having the a/c compressor engage unnecessarily, for any time it is your vehicle's gas mileage and performance suffers.

smoothsailin · March 2009

Awesome deal-congratulations aalsherri!

Unfortunately (for me) this confirms a suspicion that I should have made a lower initial offer to purchase my '08 LX V6! Oh well...

Still, based on the gap between what you say the car cost compared to the final price out-the-door it sounds like either vehicle title taxes and registration fees are noticeably higher in your area-or you may have ended up saddled with some relatively high dealer fees.

Above the price negotiated for my Rondo ($15,088 after the $4k mfgr rebate) I paid $399 for "dealer services", $10 for "online filing fees", $584.61 for VA titling taxes (3%), $36.27 for "dealer business license tax" (never should have let this one go w/o protest), $38.75 for registration (tags) and $10 for VA title fee for a total of $1,078.63.

Sounds like you ended up paying about $225 morr for fees, licenses & taxes (& options/warranties?) above the base price for your car.

You got a great deal in any case!

conwelpic · March 2009

I'm puzzled or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you:

"As far as the automatic a/c engagement goes, all I'm saying is I'd prefer to have total control over when the a/c compressor can engage."

You do, if you engage it in the "on" position (eg: in the two defrost positions) where the a/c comes on automatically (the a/c button lights up, therefore the a/c is activated - compressor engaged), if you don't want it on at that point, push the a/c button to turn it off. The only position you can't do this is maximum a/c setting. If you don't want it to come on automatically then use the reset as I described earlier.

smoothsailin · March 2009

Perhaps your car behaves differently than mine. Do you have a non-U.S. model?

When I move the vent control in my Rondo to a defrost position I can tell that the a/c compressor engages because I immediately see a "bump" in the tachometer needle position which clearly indicates a slight change in rpm and engine load as the a/c compressor engages. However when this happens the a/c light does not come on to show the compressor is engaged.

This behavior is consistant with what I've witnessed in my other cars owned over the last 10 years or so, including a '98 Toyota, '04 Scion and '05 Mazda. The a/c light doesn't illuminate when defrost is selected (if the the blower switch on) in any of those cars either. However my '99 BMW 323ic is an exception, for I don't believe the a/c compressor will engage unless you press the button in tha car.

I'd be happier if the other ones were designed the same way.

conwelpic · March 2009

if you hover over my name you will see my location (I'm in Canada). Sure wish they would change this site to show your location and what you drive more clearly like some of the other forums also allowing avatars and signatures.

Did you try the defogging logic as I described in #294 to see if it does anything? Is there a reference in your US owners manual to this setting?

Too bad the US site doesn't allow you to download the owners manual like the Canadian one, at least without having to register.

own 2008 Rondo EX, 2.4L, 5-seater, Aqua silver, 16 months ownership, nearly 26,000 km

smoothsailin · March 2009

Sorry. Haven't been a member of this forum for long, so still getting familiar with the format's ideosyncracies.

I also haven't tried to use your "defogging logic" procedure. I'm a tax accountant and am working 12+ hour days, 7-days/week. I did experiment with the hvac controls last night during the drive home and confirmed the following:

A/c compressor engages automatically but the light doesn't come on when either of the defrost positions is selected. Confirmed this by viewing the tachometer as the control position is changed. Also confirmed that the air from the vents gets cooler right after a defrost vent position is selected.

Contrastingly, when the far counter-clockwise "Max A/C" position is selected both the a/c and recirculate lights are illuminated.

Haven't had much time (or energy) left by the end of the day to pull out the car's owners manual again. The first time I browsed through the hvac controls section I don't recall reading anything about auto a/c engagement when defrost is selected, much less any procedure which would allow owners to modify the control logic. Still, will try to remember to read through that section of the manual again when I get home tonight.

May also try to duplicate the "defogging logic" procedure suggested to see if doing so would make a difference.

Cheers!

blueboar · March 2009

I bought a new 2008 Rondo EX-2.4L (5 seater with crossbar and cargo tray) in February. Paid invoice minus $4500 (out of the door price $15,600, including tax, fees, etc). We wanted a particular color and only found it at this one dealer in our area (Philadelphia, PA). Otherwise I think the price could have been lower.

We really like it so far. Initially we wanted to buy a SUV and looked at the RAV-4, Sportage, etc. I think the Rondo is a good value for the money.

aalsherri · March 2009

The car I purchased is 2008 LX I4 with the convenience package and floor carpets.
The retail price was $18,880

The sale price was $16,272 plus $80 metro tax plus $835.21 state tax plus $180.60 new licence plus $398.75 processing fee plus $33.34 business tax.

The total before incentives was $17,800 KIA incentives was $4000
Final price was $13,800 (out of the door)

I paid a down payment of $2000 and financed $11,800

The document fee was high but I was interested in the out of the door price rather than negotiating dealer fees.

blueboar · March 2009

I bought a Rondo EX in February. And I read about a recall for the Rondos in September 2008 (see below). Should I be worried? Can I assume that the issue has been solved or should I bring the car back to the dealer and have it checked?

"Kia has issued a recall for '08-'09 model-year Kia Rondo EX and LX models equipped with the 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine.

Fuel pumps in those models may be defective, not supplying enough fuel to the engine says the NHTSA. The problem might be experienced as hesitation on acceleration or trouble starting the vehicle, possibly endangering drivers it it worsens.

Kia will replace the fuel pump at dealerships. Owners with questions may contact Kia at 1-800-333-4542."

conwelpic · March 2009

according to the info I got back last September it stated that vehicles that could be affected where:
2008-2009 Rondo LX/EX 2.4L (1-4) vehicles produced between 11/5/2007 and 7/12/2008
It also gave the applicable VIN Range:
KNAFG525187158990 - KNAFG528X97235576 (the year is the tenth digit)

it also stated that first to check by:
1. open hood and check for SC074 campaign completion label on the panel above the under hood fuse box. If label exists, NO FURTHER ACTION IS REQUIRED.

I believe this was for both Canada and the US. Just phone your dealer and ask or like your info call KIA at the toll free number. It did not effect me as mine was built prior to those dates and the car runs great. Just for your info, there is a tag on the front cross member giving the actual build date (you can see it from lifting up the hood looking down on the drivers side behind the rad).

njmom91 · April 2009

I looked through and didn't see any one with a recent post on 09 EX. Anyone with any experience to share?
I'm planning to go to the dealership week of April 13 for initial test drive. Already drove a Mazda5 and did not like the handling or sight lines. Current car is out of lease early May so need to move forward.
Thanks for any help!

Kia Rondo Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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