Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

mckeown · January 2002

Cyberpirate, AM & FM are better than factory Clarion unit. Traveling so much I listen to news/traffic stations a lot near cities and these tend to be AM, so AM reception is important to me. On the road FM and CD's are my choice of entertainment and this fits the bill. ONE Thing about the IN-GLASS-ANTENNA, it has an Amplifier mounted right by the rear pillar, so one lead from the NEW radio Power Antenna lead gets attached to power the Ant-Amp when the radio is turned on(this is in the radio harness already). This is why I recommend using Crutchfield. Their pre-wired adapter HAS this wire in it, so it is a Plug and Play replacement.

hazozita · January 2002

Hello everyone -- although I've had my 2001 Forester for nearly a year, I just recently found this board. Reading through the past messages was quite informative.

One of the few disappointments when shopping for my Forester was that it did not offer a GPS unit. As someone who is ALWAYS lost, a GPS with voice prompts was high on my wish list. I recently purchased a Garmin Streetpilot III ($749 at ecost.com). Absolutely wonderful -- just type in an address and the unit tells you exactly how to get there, turn by turn. Recommend it highly to anyone who is looking to add GPS to their Forester.

scirocco22 · January 2002

Yes, I was confused: I was thinking about the 6.5 width as juice and Dan pointed out. Thanx to everyone who cleared that up.

Ken-- I agree, the tread sure doesn't appear that it would be that much better in snow than the Geolanders. I just thought I read somewhere that they were rated better in snow than the Geolanders ...I'll do some more research on that. As for the Nokians, I think I remember that they don't come in the 215/60-16 size. Would moving up to the 225/60-16 work? I'm one who prefers to stay with the OEM size if possible.

--'rocco

paisan · January 2002

You'd probably want to go down in size for snows to 205 or eve a 195 size with a higher side-wall (to make the diameter near stock) For snow you want a narrower tire to be able to cut through the snow, unless it's soo deep that you want to float on it then you want a wider one.

-mike

ateixeira · January 2002

Jon: stick with the same dealer. They took care of you the first time, under warranty, so I'd let them have at it again. If you get resistance, call Subaru's 800 number. Your clutch problem has been documented so they should do it all for free.

That GPS sounds cool. Welcome to the thread, hazozita.

I agree with paisan on the tire width - you want narrow tires for snow, not wide ones. If anything, go to 205/65R16s, or 205/70R15s on steel rims.

I put 225/60R16s on my Forester, and while dry handling is much improved, these tires are not at all good in the snow. That's OK for me - we get very little snow in DC. But for dedicated snow tires?

I'd strongly recommend 205s or 215s.

-juice

dhdunn · January 2002

Folks, sorry for the "provincial posting", but I am seeking feedback on 2 dealerships in the Boulder, CO area:

1) Flatirons Subaru, Boulder
2) Valley Subaru, Longmont

If anyone out there lives in the Boulder area, and can give me some feedback on these dealerships that would be great!! I'm interested in knowing about their sales process (how honest and straightforward were they), and also very importantly how good their service departments are (competency, accuracy, honesty). You can post answers or send them to dhdunn@yahoo.com

Thanks so much for your help!!

Warmest regards,

dhd

P.S. I also posted this in the Outback area

kens · January 2002

'rocco,

I also checked the Nokian Tire website and couldn't find any 215/60R16.

http://www.nokiantires.com/html/NRW.html#specs

What size you go with depends on what you're looking for from the tire. If you go with a larger size, you'll improve dry handling but as the other members write, you sacrifice snow performance. However, the NRWs look like they would offer far more snow grip than any conventional all-season tire so you may still be better off even with a larger size.

Ken

penguinpower · January 2002

Just got back from a 10 day, 4 state "visit the family" trip. We got our S+ right before Thanksgiving, so this was my first chance for some extended time in the Forester.
I was very pleased with the performance, although gas mileage was not as good as I had hoped for (chalked it up to new engine - only 1100 miles when we left - and cold weather).
I am 6-2 and was very comfortable through the trip. I did not get the stiff back that I usually get on longer trips. At times I felt a little cramped in the driver's seat, but it was OK. I would not want to be 6-5 and trying to drive a Forester.
Our longest haul was six hours, with three trips of 3 to 4 hours. As someone stated earlier, the firm seats help a lot.
The cargo space became a little bit of an issue on this trip. Our old vehicle was a Merc Villager, so I had to do with about half the space I had before. We had to haul Santa gifts for our six year old, so it was a challenge. We took off the cargo cover in the back and were able to get everything in by using the back seat for some "soft item" storage.
Overall I am fine on space with only one child, but I don't know if I would have bought the Forester with two kids. All of our family is between 3 and 6 hours away, so we do several of these trips a year.
I do like the three point seat belt in the center of the back seat. Although my son is 6, the doctor tells us he is the size of an average 8 year old. He loves the center seat because he can see best and I like the center seat because the firmer center seats gives him a great fit with the seat belt.
When we picked up the Forester, the salesman cautioned us about taking it to a "quick lube" place because they have had a few circumstances where the quick lube drained the tranny fluid instead of the oil. Given that the oil gets changed only every 7,500 miles instead of 3,000, I will take it to the dealer to get changed. The three times a year it will need done will not be too inconvenient. The dealership threw in free oil changes and regular maintenance items for the first 24,000 miles, so they will get our business.
About the only negative so far is those lousy cup holders that everyone else complains about.

Dave

scirocco22 · January 2002

juice and paisan-- no, sorry to be confusing, I was referring to the NRW all-seasons that Ken was talking about ...not dedicated snows. I'm thinking along the lines as juice ...using all-seasons year around. So no clearance problems in the rear with 225/60-16s, right? Thanx all.

--'rocco

penguinpower · January 2002

Just got back from a 10 day, 4 state "visit the family" trip. We got our S+ right before Thanksgiving, so this was my first chance for some extended time in the Forester.
I was very pleased with the performance, although gas mileage was not as good as I had hoped for (chalked it up to new engine - only 1100 miles when we left - and cold weather).
I am 6-2 and was very comfortable through the trip. I did not get the stiff back that I usually get on longer trips. At times I felt a little cramped in the driver's seat, but it was OK. I would not want to be 6-5 and trying to drive a Forester.
Our longest haul was six hours, with three trips of 3 to 4 hours. As someone stated earlier, the firm seats help a lot.
The cargo space became a little bit of an issue on this trip. Our old vehicle was a Merc Villager, so I had to do with about half the space I had before. We had to haul Santa gifts for our six year old, so it was a challenge. We took off the cargo cover in the back and were able to get everything in by using the back seat for some "soft item" storage.
Overall I am fine on space with only one child, but I don't know if I would have bought the Forester with two kids. All of our family is between 3 and 6 hours away, so we do several of these trips a year.
I do like the three point seat belt in the center of the back seat. Although my son is 6, the doctor tells us he is the size of an average 8 year old. He loves the center seat because he can see best and I like the center seat because the firmer center seats gives him a great fit with the seat belt.
When we picked up the Forester, the salesman cautioned us about taking it to a "quick lube" place because they have had a few circumstances where the quick lube drained the tranny fluid instead of the oil. Given that the oil gets changed only every 7,500 miles instead of 3,000, I will take it to the dealer to get changed. The three times a year it will need done will not be too inconvenient. The dealership threw in free oil changes and regular maintenance items for the first 24,000 miles, so they will get our business.
About the only negative so far is those lousy cup holders that everyone else complains about.

Dave

paisan · January 2002

Oh in that case, yep they should be fine IMHO.

-mike

ateixeira · January 2002

Sound like a fun trip, Dave. It's like deja-vu all over again for me - Forester, 1 kid, lots of road trips to see family. Boy that sounds familiar. :-)

We actually have a 2nd kid on the way, but honestly the way my wife packs I'm not sure any other compact SUV will cut it, so we may get a minivan as a 2nd vehicle.

Meanwhile, I got a soft carrier that sits on the roof, from Samsonite. I've seen them for $40 at luggage outlets, but Kmart and Walmart have their own styles. Hard shells from Sears or REI are another option. Even Trick Trucks and Pep Boys have hard shell carriers.

'rocco: my wheels have a different offset (15mm farther from the body). The 225/60R16 tires are close, with little clearance to the rear spring base, and in front near the mounting point of the mud guards.

They may fit with the stock rims, but it'll be close. It may actually depend on tread width (the 225 number is the section width, not the actual width of the tread), so see if you can compare the tread width of the tire you buy to the OE tire.

-juice

scirocco22 · January 2002

penguinpower · January 2002

Juice - my wife doesn't want to hear about a car top carrier. She loves the moonroof too much.
We told the family small gifts. My brother complies by giving my wife a gift certificate to a craft store. Problem is it is a local store where he lives in NE Ohio. We don't have them in Indiana. Gift certificate expires before my wife will be there again. So off we go to the craft store. She decides to buy a 3 foot high plant stand. It took every bit of my packing ability to get that thing in.

ateixeira · January 2002

I can't argue with that! I love the moonroof too!

My moonroof is aftermarket, and only 15"x30", so the carrier fits easily behind it. Your moonroof is about 4 times bigger, so I understand.

Nice packing job. Use the compartments in the cargo area, including the cooler above the spare, if you have to. Every little bit helps!

-juice

cyberpirate · January 2002

mckeown -> Crutchfield is out of sxcd-500. May be, I'll have to try somewhere else.

I am up for the first oil change. Any opinions
on the brand, grade (I live in MI. Temps are in single digit in winter and it snows)? What is up with these synthetic oil? Is it really worth it?

juice-> Any hopes of getting pics back online? I am planning on changing oil by myself. So, counting on your pictorial instructions:)

rsunico · January 2002

In case this has been done before, my apologies. But can someone give me a crash course in what those numbers (e.g., 205/70/15) mean vis-a-vis width, diameters, etc.

Would a smaller tire (205/55/16) improve snow performance for a Forester (despite lowering the vehicle). I have a set of 16" WRX rims and am debating what tire size to put on them (and what to do with the existing 205/55/16 tyres with low miles that are currently mounted on the WRX rims).

Thanks

armac13 · January 2002

Cyberpirate - I use 5-30 oil even though the temperatures we experience here are warmer than you suggest. My driving often involves frequent short trips. I feel that the thinner oil minimizes initial startup wear given these conditions. If you check your owner's manual it will confirm this choice.

Renato - If you are going to change tire size for improved snow performance, go to a narrower tire (195/75/15 perhaps) not the lower aspect tire you suggest. Most people who play with tire size for dedicated snow tires use the L (15")rims with narrow tires for the snow (narrow tires cut through the snow better) and the S, or in your case WRX (16") rims for wider, lower aspect tires for better dry/wet handling. Hope this helps.

Ross

mainemojo · January 2002

We just added an '02 S+ to the place in our garage previously occupied by a '97 Mazda MPV, side-by-side with our '00 Legacy GT Ltd. The Forester has fewer than 400 miles on it and -- surprise, surprise -- the 'Check Engine' lamp came on. I've lost track of how many times I've had this happen with the Legacy, so I unscrewed the gas cap and tightened it up again.

I don't doubt the fix, but I wonder if this is chronic with today's Subarus (we had Legacy wagons in the mid '80s and early '90s and I don't recall dealing with this annoyance), and whether anyone has come across a sure-fire way to end it -- is there, perhaps, a magic number of clicks after tightening the cap?

Apologies, also, if this topic has been beaten to death. Before posting I scanned back about a month or two and couldn't find a similar discussion.

Mo

armac13 · January 2002

I've never had the light come on in the 18 months I've had Rufus (2001 S). I always give it 8-12 clicks for good measure. Too many can never hurt, too few can.

Ross

mainemojo · January 2002

Ross: Never in 18 months? Is there a difference in the fuel/emission system on cars sold in Canada?

Mo

armac13 · January 2002

Not to my knowledge. All Canadian Subarus are LEV, meeting California standards. And no, I have never had the dreaded CEL come on in 18+ months.

Ross

beachfish · January 2002

I bought an '02 Forester S on 9/1 and have never had the CEL come on. I used one click for the first two months and, after reading about the problem, now use two or three.

John

bigfrank3 · January 2002

We have 2 '01 Foresters and have never had the CEL come on. We always tighten about 4 or 5 clicks.

Regards.
Frank

cyberpirate · January 2002

When I took the delivery (10/2001), the delear warned me about this, and suggested atleast 3 clicks. I have never had the the light come on...

ateixeira · January 2002

7 lucky clicks here. CELs are usually no big deal unless they are blinking, the dealer can clear the code at the next oil change.

I use 10w30 oil, I think SJ is the highest current rating available (all popular brands meet it). Photopoint.com was still down last I checked. 4 bolts and 2 pins (one in each wheel well) hold the black cover in place, use a flat screw driver on the pins. A crescent wrench for the drain plug, and I can usually manage the oil filter by hand. Poke a hole at the bottom of the oil filter with that screw driver and let the oil drain out before you remove it to prevent a mess.

Tires. OK, the first number is the section width, in mms, for the widest part of the tire. Note that the tread width is different, more narrow. So a 205 means 205mm wide tires.

The 2nd number is called the aspect ratio, or the ratio of sidewall to width. So a "70" means you take 70% of the section width to calculate sidewall height.

The last number is the diameter of the rim it goes on. In the case of the Forester L, it's 15, for the S it's 16.

For snow tires, you do not want extra width. Stick with stock size or even a bit more narrow. Tirerack.com has good explanations accompanying photos.

-juice

pal086 · January 2002

I have had the Forester for only a month now -- but upward of 10 refills - no CEL yet. I of course had read about the problem here and use 10-12 clicks just to be on the safe side !!

rsunico · January 2002

Ross/Juice..thanks for the tire tips. I think I like the way the WRX rims look and I will keep them. I will remove the Potenza's currently on em and ebay them to get rid of them. One quickie.. does anyone have any idea how long I have to wait for the existing 15" Bridgestone Duelers on my Forester to wear out? The dealer asked if I wanted to rotate and I said no.. I want the tires to wear so I can use the 15" for snows and install the 16" WRX rims for the rest of the year.

armac13 · January 2002

I would rethink your plan if I were you. If the wear is uneven front/rear you will be putting undue stress on the differential - a definite no-no.

Ross

speterson1 · January 2002

I also go overboard when putting on the gas cap...8-12 clicks and the CEL has never come on once in about 10 months of ownership.

Echoing Ross, just get used to doing that. Doesn't hurt a thing, and will keep that pesky CEL from coming on.

Steve

mainemojo · January 2002

Thanks, all, for the CEL feedback. And particularly Juice, for noting the difference between a flashing indicator and one that just glows continuously. Have to pay closer attention to the pump jockeys at the local filling station.

Mo

wbeachey · January 2002

The Forester is touted to be one of the most reliable mini SUVs, according to Consumer Reports, and I'm in the market for a used one. On the other hand, a personal friend bought one new in 1999, and had to have the engine replaced in the first year (manufacturing defect, he was told). I thought this was probably a fluke, given Subaru's good reputation. But just yesterday I found a used 1999 Forester at a car dealer lot, and called the original owner to get more information. I found he had the rear wheel bearings go out within the first year, and was told the wrong type had been installed at the factory. The car has 54,800 miles and he said he had the transmission replaced under warranty at around 49,000 miles, again, he was told it was a manufacturing defect. The dealer is asking $15,200 for the car. Now this doesn't seem like such a reliable vehicle, considering the only two people I know who owns one had serious problems. If this were an American made vehicle, I wouldn't give Subaru a second thought, but I really like the features and the way the Forester drives. Has anyone out there had bad experiences with their Foresters? ("Bad" includes problems even if they are fixed under warranty.)

joseph50 · January 2002

Sorry to get philosophical/psychological on you, but it is a fact of nature that people find what they look for. If you are looking for a string of bad experiences with any car, you will find them. If you are looking for recommendations about the same make, you will find them.
Still, best of luck in you endeavor.

rictom · January 2002

My sister in law has a 99 Forester. Over 60000 miles. She loves it. Lives in CT, loves the AWD. Says they've only done the basic maintenance on it. We drove it while we were back there because we're looking at the Forester and a CRV. Liked it a lot. Today we drove a 2002, a simple on/off the freeway, how does it feel, how's the visibility, etc. type of test drive. Really liked it. Subaru is supposedly coming out with a redesigned 2003 Forester in April, so maybe that will free up some 2001 and 2002's and maybe you can make a deal on a new(er) one?
Also have another friend with a 98 forester who likes it. He is ordering the STX so I guess he must like Subaru. I understand looking for a good used one, and I think you're going about it the right way, it just may take awhile to find a good one that someone sold for reasons other than problems....

laurievrba · January 2002

I'm up for my 15k maintenance on my forester. Does anyone here do this themselves?

How difficult is it with basic knowledge of car repair.

Also, can anyone suggest a good book on a '01 subaru forester?

Thanx!

wbeachey · January 2002

Maybe you misread my post about Forester's reliability. I was "looking for" (expecting)people to have good experiences with the Forester; it gets great reviews in most magazines. My question arose because I was suprised the only people I knew who owned Foresters had bad experiences. I would like to think Forester is still an above average car in terms of reliability, because I really like the way they drive and was set on buying one. So I'm looking to hear good experiences--what is your experience?

ldw40 · January 2002

Has anyone had clutch problems with a 2001 forester s+. I had mine dealer replaced at 22000 due to "shimmying" when the car is cold. After the car warms up the problem tends to fade away.

joseph50 · January 2002

I've had my Forester S for exactly one year, plainly long enough to react somewhat defensively when assuming that someone is attempting to use this board to fish for barbs. ("Has anyone out there had bad experiences....") I apologize for assuming incorrectly. What I appreciate most about the car is the sense of driving confidence it induces as a result of its terrific visibility and handling.
Again, best of luck in your decision process.

felch1 · January 2002

I drove my 2002 forester s last night for the first time in snow.
Handles great! One thing I noticed however on occasion was a thump sound in the rear when first accelerating. It almost sounded like something was trying to kick in? It happened 2 or three times. Just wondering if it was something activating when you are on snow?
Then of course I got paranoid and thought it was something that the people who installed my hitch may have done wrong. I has the hitch installed on Friday. Anyone out there shed some light on the thump sound when in snow? There was about 4-5 inches of fresh snow down.
Thanks

jei · January 2002

My '99 "S" bought new has 88K miles and has been the best car I've ever had. Including Toyotas, with their famous & deserved reliablity record. Reliability has been very good although not Toyota perfect. The cruise control failed at 54K; I got it fixed out of warranty for $100, with Subaru helping out the rest of the cost. The alignment was off, causing some early tire wear. I've had brakes & rotors done. BUT: No wheel bearing, drivetrain or other major problems. At 3 years old, the car is rock-solid.

That said, The Forester is a real pleasure to own and drive. It's comfortable, powerful, handles & brakes very well and has all sorts of thoughtful details including a flat cargo area, robust roof rack, heated mirrors etc. Great in snow & rain. Not too big or too small. Aside from its utility, the Forester has a certain cheerful, friendly character & personality - intangible things that are hard to pin down - real pleasure and value for that hard-earned money.

Bottom line? I'd buy a Forester again because of its combination of performance, design, personality and reliability. However, I look forward to keeping my '99 for well over 200,000 miles. If I were looking for a used Forester, I'd check its history and condition carefully to avoid the few problem units out there.

lakepop · January 2002

felchl..do you have AT?

I've read in other posts that it has something to do with a diffy transfer thingy that happens with AT. The AT coupling is different than on the manual tranny ergo a"thump" when slippage is detected.

I have experienced it on my 01 Forester with AT.

seiken07068 · January 2002

I have a 2002 Forrester L automatic. I also sometimes notice a thump-type sound from the rear when I accelerate. Something like the cartoon characters moving their feet until their feet hit the ground.

paisan · January 2002

It's the power being shifted to the rear. I get it on my XT6 AT, and my Trooper exhibits a similar sound in the front when the power is shifted from the rear (normally 85% rear power) to the front. On the Trooper I know it's due to the power shift cause I have a guage that tells me how much torque is on each axle, so the thump coincides with the shift in power. Completely normal.

-mike

scholli · January 2002

I think you can always find someone who's had a problem with a car that you're thinking of buying. My 99 Golf caused me a lot of heartache - noises, screeches, and thumps that I've never heard in 20+ years of driving. But other people who've had 99 Golfs have had no problems.

Have had my Forester all of 10 days and I love it. Jei summed it up perfectly - it's got a cheerful, friendly character that makes me smile. I'm still waiting for that whopper of a snow storm - we just got rain today. But in the rain/slush we had, it was great.

ateixeira · January 2002

I'd rotate tires regardless of your planes to replace them. My Duelers lasted 28k miles, FWIW.

Will: engine problems are rare. Tranny problems aren't really common, but there was a TSB for manuals popping out of first, though Subaru fixed those for free. Clutch complaints are more common, but keep in mind all these are already factored in to the "better than average" CR rating for reliability.

The rear wheel bearings were overtightened on some installations, so I've seen that a few times.

My advice? Buy one with a little warranty left over on it, since you seem to worry about that type of thing. They carried a 5 year 60k mile warranty, so that should be easy.

Better yet, can you afford a Forester L? A 5 speed goes for about $19k, and you'll have a long enough warranty that it'll be paid off before you have any repairs to pay for (not so with Honda).

In my case I have 43k miles and still love it. I was the founder of the Subaru Crew, along with a few other regulars here, and we host a chat every week on Thursday. You'll find a dozen enthusiastic owners for every disgruntled one. Even some that have had problems still like their Subies so much that they buy another. :-)

15k maintenance is just an oil change and tire rotation, I believe. 30k is the first major service.

Michael: you probably felt the AWD system kicking in.

-juice

john385 · January 2002

Subaru Forester has been named as the leader in customer loyalty among compact SUV buyers, according to the Polk survey. Does that mean I will get another one? Let's see the all new '03 forester this april, and my wife might get one.
The part I like about the Subaru Forester is that it is just right, not too big and not too small, and it is neutral, even in steering. My 30K service is coming up, anyone has good suggestion as to where I could bring it to in the DC/VA/MD area? I also need a snowboard rack, anyone who wants to get rid of his, may contact me off line.

ateixeira · January 2002

I do the services myself, even though we do live in the same area.

Do you have a URL for the Polk story?

-juice

john385 · January 2002

http://autoshow2002.carpoint.msn.com/ArticlesPolk.aspx

it is all the way in the end.

kens · January 2002

Cool link, John!

Did anyone notice that the Subaru Legacy is listed under Midsize Sedan?

Ken

john385 · January 2002

http://www.polk.com/news/releases/2002_0106.asp

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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