Pontiac Aztek

stod · January 2001

The Aztek isn't selling for one basic reason: it's ugly. The automotive consumers (i.e. the market not buying it) and even Pontiac has said (silently) so. Shortly after its introduction, GM senior management issued a directive to redesign the exterior. Hmmm, makes you wonder how many heads will roll for letting it be released in the first place. You can bet it will be middle and junior management. Even though design approval goes to the top...senior management is never held responsible in the corporate food chain!!

According to Automobile magazine (Feb 2001 issue): two months after hitting the showroom floor fewer than 7,000 have been sold. Of those 7,000, apparently GM is counting the 2,300 that GM executives are "test driving" (forced into it??). So, after spending $30 Million to launch the Aztek...there are only 4,700 REAL sales. A tad short of the 75,000 projected sales for the launch year!!!

Most likely dealers will sell it for below cost (which is below "invoice" after backing out flooring and factory hold back) just to move the units to show the factory what troopers they are!

Cheers,
Stod

topgn · January 2001

I spoke to a friend of mine who works for GM in management position. He stated that the "Aztek" will be terminated by the year 2003.. GM is highly disappointed in the volume of sales generated since inception...WOW I wonder what this will do to resale value of customers who own the Aztek now....If they cannot sell their car , I wonder what one can do with a car that is worthless in two years....YUGO

dindak · January 2001

Must be a really good friend given the way tou trash GM all the time.

jmatero · January 2001

Well, carsdirect.com is selling the aztek gt for just about invoice... maybe $500 more after options... that's BAD news for a 2001 vehicle... ecspecially since it's only 1/4/01. I also heard the results of the NHTSA coming out this week are quite "disappointing" and this might have a lot to do with finalizing a "kill the aztek" decision at GM. We'll see. Actually, I think that all they have to do is put a pontiac grille and spiderman tail lights on a new buick rondevous and sell it as the new aztek... the interior/dash will just plug right in I'm sure... if they do this, and drop the price $5,000 they'll have a winner on their hands

gonzo7 · January 2001

I just read in a car magazine (MT or Autoweek) that the guy who headed the Aztek design team would be leaving GM. Surprising.

rkuehn · January 2001

was that the same guy profiled in the business week article a few weeks back? probably got a lousy year-end performance review. given gm has stated it will cut models its reasonable to assume aztek is in jeopardy. however if the buick is successfull then maybe aztek will get the restyle after all?

i would never buy one of these but this board continues to be very entertaining.

new car & driver has a preview of the toyota highlander, $22-29k. now then, why would anyone buy an aztek over a highlander?

topgn · January 2001

Also why would anyone purchase a Aztek when you can get a Hyundai "Santa Fe" loaded with leather, v-6, all wheel drive and ABS for a price of $23,000..Hyundai also has the best new car warrany in the business..5 year 60k miles bumper to bumper warranty..with a 10year 100k mile warranty on the drivetrain..Plus the Santa Fe has some "class" and good looks ( we won't even go there with the Aztek)..So in summary::

The Aztek>> Dealers cannot give them away.
The Santa Fe>> Dealers have none on the lot to popular...

dindak · January 2001

Santa Fe is only marginally better looking than an Aztek. Santa Fe also needs the big warantee cause Hyundais have had terrible reliability in the past.

Lets face it though, they are both ugly.

jmatero · January 2001

Well, it looks like Pontiac learned their lesson VERY QUICKLY because the new Pontiac Vibe is the Polar Opposite of the Aztek... I think it's beautiful...

see it here...

http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/2001losangelesautoshow/44468/page005.html

tincup47 · January 2001

I think the Vibe will be a success if they price it right, should outsell the Aztek out of the box. Now all GM has to do is produce it.

gonzo7 · January 2001

I agree, the Vibe looks good. Don't forget, the Aztek prototype looked nice too. Then the Accountants who rule GM got their hands on it.
Remember GM's leaders recently said they are in the business of making money, not cars-- That is why GM is suffering.

dindak · January 2001

I think Vibe goes on sale next year. Priced right, it will sell like hot cakes. I heard it was built on a Subaru platform. True??

ruski · January 2001

another Pontiac is supposedly going to be built on a Subaru platform.

Sporin · January 2001

The Pontiac Vibe will share 95% of it's mechanicals with the Toyota Matrix(?). They will both get a version of the Celica GT-S's engine. They will be built side by side at the joint Toyota/GM plant in CA... the same plant that used to produce the Corolla/Prism twins. The Vibe/Matrix is built off the all-new Corolla platform.

It is a MUCH smaller vehicle then the Aztek though, about CR-V sized. Not sure how it fits into Toyota's 86 SUV line-up... seems like it might compete with the RAV4 too much but who knows.

Latest rumors are that the Aztek wil be axed next year.

Very informative discussion going on here -->
http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum1/HTML/012883.html

teo · January 2001

WOW! What a car! This is what the Pontiac ASStek should have looked like in the first place!

Notice that Pontiac is quickly moving away from plastic body cladding and Batman design cues. Excellent!

The Vibe will be based on the all new 2003 Toyota Corolla platform and will be built in the same NUMMI GM/Toyota plant. The Vibe will be Pontiac's new entry level car, replacing the aging J-Body Sunfire and bringing Pontiac into a new comeback in the market. The Chevy Prizm will be discontinued after 2002 as Pontiac will now get the Corolla based Vibe instead. Chevy will get the next generation "Delta" platform German Opel Astra. The next Cavalier will be an upscale German engineered small car that will compete with the Europe design Focus. The mediocre J-Bodies are finally being phased out Yeepeeee!!!!!!

The Vibe for sure will be our next car!

Bye bye Asstek!

dindak · January 2001

I hear it is due for a make over asap. If they can fix up the front end, they will likely sell more, and the combined Rendezvous/Aztek production should give the plant enough volume.

suvbabe · January 2001

Very interested in Aztek's interior space. Currently own a CRV which I love but it's too small. Was about to purchase an Aztek but after looking at your emails I am second guessing that decision. Is there an SUV 4wd vehicle at the same $$$$ with the same interior rear cargo space? Help!

ab348 · January 2001

It's not the front end that needs a makeover as much as that butt-ugly butt.

The Vibe isn't my cup of java but it doesn't make me nauseous the way the Aztek does. It is a shame, though, that GM seems unable to build successful small platofrms of its own anymore, needing to rely on Subaru and Toyota for their "bones".

dindak · January 2001

I have heard of no major problems with Azteks and their build quality is very good. Your big concern is looks and if you can live with them, you can get a great deal on one. I guess what I'm saying is.. if you like it, buy it.

shanian · January 2001

The aztek would make a good city cab. Lots of room,reliable drive train etc. Maybe then it can get some kind of utilitarian cachet. The Jeep,Land Rover etc, had to earn their name the hard way.
Most vehicles look good in the front 3/4 view, but this one looks knock knee'd. It needs the phone number of a good plastic surgeon fast.

myfunsun · January 2001

I think its funny that the worlds largest manufacturer of automobiles has to us toyota's engine, chassis, and even steering wheel for gods sake in their upcoming pontiac vibe!! A company with pockets as deep as gms should have no problem designing excellent, technologically, advanced vehicles, and should not have to use others companies products!

teo · January 2001

Why should I pay for Toyota prices, when I can be given the option to get a good quality Toyota engine and componentry on a rebadged GM car and pay less of a premium?

People fail to see the great benefits of shared platforms and technologies..."Why Toyota gibes its cars to GM...why GM gives its engines to Toyota!" Bull, nonsense. This is the new order of "Global markets"....are people so afraid that their beloved Toyota, Honda, etc will wear different badges? Open your eyes folks!

The Pontiac Vibe looks better than ANY Toyota offering in the market today...get the goodness without the "Toyota" surcharge price.....looking forward to the Vibe and to spend some accumulated GM mastercard points on a new one!

teo · January 2001

Is doing a honest effort to bring very good and appealing products next year. GM has incredible worldwide resources, yet the "Procter & Gamble" Product managers and their bean counters pals are running the headquarters of GM in North America....I see these clowns going faster than running water in the next few months.

While that 'flushing' happens, let me get the best of two worlds.....Toyota reliability at GM prices and content levels.

Sorry guys but the Aztek is a hideous automobile. Too bad the good assembly quality will go unoticed on these beasts as no one wants them!

The Pontiac Vibe is the quick solution antidote to the Aztek experiment that went wrong......the Aztek will be discontinued when:

* The Vibe and Vibe GT AWD models are fully deployed and released to market.

* When GM axes the current minivan models (On which the Aztek and Rendezvous are based on)these SUV wannabes will be thrown into the GM's room of bad mistakes....I actually like the Buick and maybe GM will do somw twitching around to make it better...but the Aztek....will be history!

ab348 · January 2001

I guess it comes down to one simple fact: if I wanted a Subaru or a Toyota, that's what I'd buy. The "global market" you talk about means still more homogenization and lowest-common-denominator products, like the ubiquitous gray interiors that are everywhere these days but 10 years ago would have been tossed out of showrooms. If GM is going to be just an "assembled car" maker I look for them to go the way of Kissel, or Moon (look them up).

I see a problem with your theory of GM coming out with wonderful products in the next while, yet lamenting that the brand managers and bean counters are running the place. You're right, those people are running GM -- right into the ground. There's no sign they're leaving. They are the same people that thought products like the Aztek would sell. They cancelled development of GMs best models when they axed Olds. They don't have a clue. But even if they all left tomorrow, you're still looking at 3 years minimum to get new product designed and to market. GM may not last that long at their present pace, at least not as an independent company. And then they would still need to bring some "car people" in to run the place, because almost all of them are gone from GM.

About all I can say is that if GM dies in this decade, it probably would deserve its fate given the morons who are in charge.

waymoresblues · January 2001

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/pontiacaztecowners

rkuehn · January 2001

LOS ANGELES -- Only five months after launching the Pontiac Aztek, an embarrassed General Motors has decided to return it to the styling studio for a highly unusual second-year freshening.
But a full sheet metal change is not in the cards. A freshening typically could include changes to the grille, front and rear fascias and other non-sheet exterior elements, such as cladding. In general, because of the costs involved, they are not undertaken until a vehicles third year or so on the market.

But the ungainly looking Aztek has been a colossal flop with consumers, pushing GM to take the unusual measure. Sales from August through December totaled only 11,201 units, far short
of the targeted annual rate of 75,000.

"We have some ideas on how to improve the styling that we can do very quickly in the short term, simple things that will change some of the perception of the overall styling," said Ron
Zarrella, president of General Motors of North America, in an interview in Los Angeles last week.

"Theres a handful of things we will do a little longer term, say in the course of a year. But we think we can sell the Aztek."

suvbabe · January 2001

Ok all you car experts out there. I posted a message on Fri looking for an SUV that can deliver the amount of interior cargo space the Aztek can for the same $$$$$. My needs required that I have a minimum of 46 1/4" flat inside width. While everyone seems to gripe about the Aztek no one responded with an alternative for me.
The vehicle also needs to be either all or 4-wheel drive. Went from dealership to dealership with tapemeasure in hand on Sat. and can't find a solution. If there isn't one, what can you tell me about reliability. My Honda CRV has 105,000 mi in 3 years and runs GREAT! It's just too small. Do you think the AZTEK will hold up as well? My car knowledge is limited so please come to the aid of this novice!
Thanks!!!!

dindak · January 2001

I'm really glad they are re-styling the Aztek. Concept is very good but the styling just went too far. At least they are doing something quickly rather than kid themselves thing will get better.

tincup47 · January 2001

The Aztek isn't a true SUV, it's a warmed over minivan. If you need the space of a minivan there are several AWD minivans out there, but you will be hard pressed to find an SUV with minivan dimensions.

jmatero · January 2001

Remember, the aztek is NOT an SUV (truck)... it is a pontiac montana minivan, that's why it is as wide and flat inside as it is.. you won't find many (if any...) SUVs that are as wide and flat due to the chasis and other factors. Other AWD vehicles like the Aztek are the AWD Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager-town&country. In fact, the Montana is also getting AWD this year... BUT... your CR-V is one of the safest vehicles on the road in its class while the montana/aztek platform is the WORST. The vehicle was pulled from the european market after 3 months because it was so unsafe and both the NHTSA and the Insurance Institute tests have shown it to be nothing short of a death trap. They are testing the Aztek currently and results should be available shortly but since they share platforms/suspensions/drivetrains, the chances of the Aztek doing much better are remote. You could also look at the Passat 4-motion wagon which is cavernous inside and one of the safest cars on the road. Also, The subaru forester is very roomy and VERY safe/reliable. Toyota also has a new SUV-like vehicle coming out in a few months called the Highlander which looks very interesting as well. Good luck on your search.

viktoria_r · January 2001

Look at Isuzu Trooper S 4WD TOD. They're affordable and roomy, exellent warranty.

jmatero · January 2001

No offense, but there is NO vehicle less safe than a trooper... in fact this is the last year for it.

dindak · January 2001

Platforms are only one factor in a crash test. I don't think you should be scaring people before the facts are out. The Transport is FAR from a "death trap".

jmatero · January 2001

OK... if you compare the current montana/venture minivans to, say, a Pinto or something, true they're not deathtraps... BUT if you compare this picture (Pontiac transport/montana):

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/photos/96026_2_21.jpg

to THIS picture (toyota sienna)

http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/photos/97026_2_16.jpg

you'll see what I mean...

dindak · January 2001

The NHTSA gives Montana 5/5 Stars for both driver and passenger side impact, 4/5 stars for driver front and 3/5 stars for front passenger ( 3/5 still only means a 21-35% chance of serious injury). FAR from a death trap!

Taking results from one vehicle and inferring another vehicle sharing only on the same platform will yield the same is silly. The platform is only one factor in a list of many.

topgn · January 2001

Dindak stop telling us the Tintanic won't sink...
The Aztek is unsafe compared to the compitition, it will be out of production in two years, and of course it has looks to give old people heart attacks if they see it at night on the road..
GM are now trying to sell them at invoice and not well even at that price...THE AZTEK IS A "LOSER"
Put your energy to good use: like maybe saving the dolphins, help reduce druken drivers on the road, give advice on purchasing a REAL SUV not a minivan with a need for some plastic surgery..!!

dindak · January 2001

When you answer my question from 20+ posts ago "why are you here?", I will respond to you. You obviously have no interest in the Aztek or mature discussion as a whole. All you do is knock other people and the Aztek. Grow up and get a life!

lbthedog · January 2001

while the Montana/Aztek platform is the WORST. The vehicle was pulled from the European market after 3 months because it was so unsafe and both the NHTSA and the Insurance Institute tests have shown it to be nothing short of a death trap. <<<This guy is flat out wrong. The vehicle has never been part of the Euro market, there was an Opel version of the U.-van that did not sell and was discontinued, Biggest reason? Because Opel brought out the Zafira van which has been a huge success.

I have no idea why the same group of people continue to harp on this vehicle. There are no quality problems unlike the Escape. There will be a restyling. But after seeing the Jeep Liberty, the Aztek may have been replaced as whipping post.

Every vehicle has to pass certain standards in barrier testing to be allowed for sale in the United States. This vehicle has passed those standards. Safety is not a issue with this vehicle. If some outside firm chooses to retest vehicles in a manner that is different than the required standard, they may find a way for that product to fail that test. You want me to believe that GM is willingly producing a vehicle to kill it's purchaser. I think you are wrong.

I think those of you who are here trying to discourage anybody from considering this vehicle are wrong. Some of you quote friends of friends who work at GM saying this and that. Well guess what? I work for GM in an engineering department. I know what's going on. Lots of your claims are just plain flat fabrications. There is nothing wrong about this vehicle in regards to safety or performance. We want to sell more of them. I think with some tweaks we will. We will sell a great deal of Rendezvous. If some posters have discouraged you from the Aztek, wait or research the Buick. It will cost more but it will have an AWD system available. It also is a slight bit larger. Along with that it does have fully independent suspension and four wheel disk brakes. The same system will be available on the Aztek.

Strange thing about this vehicle, those of us who have driven them and spent time with it like it. I would have no reservations about going cross country in mine. Crossswind stability is excellent. On weekend trips I get around 25 mpg at 75 mph. It can pull a trailer (small one). It is exceptionally quiet. I do not buy a vehicle to impress others. I look upon them as tools. I prefer to keep as much of my cash in my pocket as possible. This vehicle is a very good value.

Now if some of you just want to gripe about styling, the Jeep Liberty message board should be opening soon. But that's my opinion.

waymoresblues · January 2001

It's sweet! I've had a base model since late August and have had an enjoyable 4200+ miles so far.
I purchaced it after totaling two other cars in '99 (95 Eagle Summit Wagon and 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee - neither my fault so no jokes!).
I liked the wide wheel-base and Side Air Bags for safety. I find it comfortable inside and aesthetically pleasing as well.

ab348 · January 2001

Well, I looked at the Liberty pics. It is shockingly conventional for the most part (I'm reminded of an older style Isuzu) except for the googly-eyed front end, which looks like it was the doodling of a junior high-schooler. Dunno where Detroit is finding their designers these days.

In terms of shock value, it's not in the same class.

rickrover · January 2001

I'm starting to see a few on the road around here (Florida) and I've got to say it's growing on me. I applaud the people that have purchased an Aztek so far. I checked the Azteks out at a recent auto show and was really impressed by the size, design and versatiltiy of the interior. It was one of the few vehicles at the show I kept going back to. All Pontiac needs to do is restyle the plastic area of the front end, the side cladding (needs to go altogether) and do something with the rear bumper area - basically restyle the plastic bits. I like the rear tailgate/ tailight area and the basic shape of the Aztek, including the hood and front turn signal design. I wonder what one would look like if the dark plastic parts were painted body color and the cladding was removed from the doors. I think it's all the dark plastic and that terrible lower door cladding that needs to be addressed in the redesign, leave the rest of it alone, especially the interior.

jmatero · January 2001

With all due respect to the comments made by the "GM Engineer"... I stand by my comments about the Sintra/Montana/Aztek platform being unsafe. Again, I urge you to look at NOT ONLY the NHTSA site, but the insurance offset crash test results AND the European crash test results of their version, GM's Opel Sintra. Here is the text from their site...

"The Sintra was overwhelmed in the frontal impact: the steering wheel and the deployed airbag broke off its column and the driver faced a real threat of fatal neck injury because his head was forced back and upwards. Opel has says it has now taken steps to prevent the wheel from snapping off, but the changes have not been tested by Euro NCAP. The car was awarded three stars, mostly for its performance in the side impact, but the final star has been struck through to indicate NCAP's fears over the chance of a fatal injury. Opel (GM) has announced that the Sintra is being withdrawn from sale, but this news came after Euro NCAP had tested the car; in any case, new examples will continue to sell for some time. Finally, its child restraints performed well in the front impact but poorly in the side impact." You can see the results here:

http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=vauxhall_opel_sintra_1998

Also, again, view my two links above that compare the montana/aztek crash photos with the toyota Sienna... a minivan of similar weight and dimensions. After comparing the two, a person would have to be off his rocker to choose the GM over the Toyota. Of course, Chrysler's Vans are not much better but in the case of the Aztek, these reports are important because they share the same platform. The Aztek has the same engine, drivetrain, suspension (for the most part), underbody, yadda-yadda-yadda as the montana and if you simply look at both of them on a lift, you'd be hard-pressed to differentiate the two. I am NOT telling people not to buy it... I AM suggesting they do their research with regards to vehicle safety because if safety IS a concern, there are MANY safer choices. If safety is NOT a person's concern, go ahead and buy one. But to suggest that 3 independent agencies are all wrong because you work in GM engineering and feel it is safe is ridiculous. I'm not making this information up as you suggest... I've always provided links to back up this information so readers can verify it. Perhaps you could provide links to show us how safe the montana/aztek/sintra vehicle is. Perhaps you could forward (like I have) pictures of the crash tests of the aztek/montana vs other vehicles in its class so that we can compare and make an educated decision. Honestly, I'm not trying to be confrontational... I would love to see an independent test of the Montana/Aztek that shows it being a safe vehicle. After seeing the Toyota/subaru/volkswagen pictures, I realize it IS possible to make a safe vehicle. Hell, the passenger compartment of the old Toyota Tercel remained more intact than the interior of the Montana. Just provide the readers here with facts and let them decide.

dindak · January 2001

Now you are off on some European tangent?? You are really digging for anything you can find aren't you? It's like you have some kind vendetta against Aztek or something. I really think you need to get a grip.

The government has minimum standards which Montana obviously meets. The NHTSA gives Montana a passing grade (though it's not as good as other vans). The Aztek is not a Montana despite the fact that it shares a few parts and a platform. Wait for the tests to come in, fine. Crucify the Aztek on the basis you use is premature to say the least.

teo · January 2001

The irony with the Pontiac Aztek is that this vehicle actually boasts very high levels of assembly quality and interior materials. Also the Aztek has been free from any significant recalls to tarnish its reputation of a quality engineered and assembled vehicle. Just look at the Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute siblings...a total embarrasement 5 recalls even before they both hit the showrooms...one of the recalls stated that the steering wheel assembly could fell off in your hands! Classic Ford crap! They are talking the route of Chrysler...nicely styled vehicles with ZERO quality control built in them! Been burned by Ford before already twice! FORD NEVER AGAIN!. JAC NASSER, ARE YOU LISTENING??

However, this car's main culprit is how ugly and out of proportion its exterior design is. I agree with most of you that the interior of the car during the 'emergency' re-design phase announced yesterday by Ron Zarrella of GM, should be left untouched. I think the strongest selling point of the current Aztek is the quality, design and versatility of the Interior, but the exterior is a total failure.

As I type this, I am looking at a picture of the 1999 Pontiac Aztek Concept show vehicle (Yellow paint with a Jet Ski towed in the back) unveiled at the NAIAS show in Detroit 2 years ago. That vehicle looks interesting, fresh and much more proportionate than the 2001 (First series) production run. What happened in between from the concept model to the production model, I have no idea...but what I do know is that whomever signed off and approved this mounstrosity of vehicle should have been fired from GM. The Aztek has already been an endless money pit for GM that should have gotten the car right from the start and made it look much closer to the show concept vehicle....now imagine the heft amounts of $$$ to turn around the fate of the Aztek in the market place....dumb and dumber!

Any way my prediction is that during the re-designed process the 'new and improved' Aztek will look more like the Show concept vehicle which is what GM should have done in the first place. As far as I am concerned, I don't think the Aztek is a 'dead duck' yet and the idea still has potential among consumers in this class of vehicle but it for sure will take GM a lot longer to recover all the loses from the first failed attempt. Also the upcoming 2002 Pontiac Vibe can put a serious dent into the new Aztek's sales as the Vibe can virtually do everything the Aztek does with a much better design and Toyota powertrain quality to boot.

Does any one know if the Vibe will be priced above the Aztek or viceversa?

jmatero · January 2001

OK for the Trillionth time... I'm NOT crucifing the aztek... I've driven it and personally, I feel it is probably the highest quality product GM sells... it seems to be put together quite well and is quiet riding. It also handles like a Dodge Caravan Sport (compliment). I am only commenting on the safety issue here. I had a neighbor killed (and his grandson badly injured)in the Oldsmobile version of the Montana/Aztek and since then I've been very safety concious.. escpecially in vehicles that carry kids (minivans). I can only comment on safety since I do not own one. True, I am not a big fan of GM, but I am willing to admit that the only real problem with the aztek from a sales standpoint is its exterior styling. That is OBVIOUSLY the reason it is not selling. I think if they restyle the nose/tail and make it look like the wheels aren't so small, they'd sell a lot more. The Buick version will sell well, I'm sure! Again, I'm ONLY commenting on safety. The Montana/venture/sillouette, by ALL accounts, are not vehicles that I would feel comfortable piloting, personally. (Note the word "personally"...) I base this decision on crash tests conducted by the federal government, the IIHS and the Euro testing agency. OF COURSE, the Aztek is not the montana. BUT if you remove the outter skin, the Aztek is a short-wheelbased Montana minivan. Again, crawl underneith... better yet, lift the hood and look at the strut towers, the suspension, the brakes, the engine, the cross members up front... hell, even the bumper mounts and sub-structure. Example: The Plymouth sundance and the plymouth reliant share platforms. Did they look alike? Hell no... were they the same beast? yes. The Pontiac GrandAm and the Olds Alero don't look alike... but they are twins. The Mitsubishi Eclipse and the Dodge Stratus coupe look NOTHING alike.. but they are twins... sharing most MAJOR NON-COSMETIC parts. The Montana and the Aztek look NOTHING alike... but (excluding the interior and exterior panels) are identical (the aztek's wheelbase is slightly shorter than the montana's). This is fact not fiction. My only suggestion to people considering the Aztek is the same now as it has been. IF SAFETY IS AN ISSUE, DO YOUR RESEARCH... THE NHTSA WILL RELEASE IT'S AZTEK FRONTAL CRASH RESULTS THIS WEEK... Do your research and make a decision... ecspecially if you won't be cruising in the car alone. That's all I've EVER said. If you don't care about safety and the Aztek meets your needs, buy one. Dindak, relax. The Aztek on dealer lots 8 months from now will look substantially different than the one out there now. Perhaps they'll sell better... if not, they'll cancel it but the investment won't be a total flop because I think the Buick will pick up the slack. The Buick mark has a better reputation for quality and the styling is much more "acceptable" to the masses. BUT I think they would have a SURE FIRE WINNER if they'd drop the Buick 3800 engine under the hood. (I hear that may very well happen inside of 12 months)

Sporin · January 2001

Dindak,

Not sure why you keep pressing on jmatero. He has been completely non-confrontational and presented test after test and picture after picture to back up his claims. His only concern is SAFETY, and I think that his contribution here has been good.

If you are willing to settle for a vehicle that mearly "meets" the US safetly requirements, as opposed to one that set's new standards of safety (Sienna, Legacy, Passat, etc) then fine. But don't try and quiet someone just because you DISAGREE with his point of view.

Also, you can say "An Aztek is not a Montana" all you want and you'll still be wrong. THey share nearly every non-cosmetic part... everything that really counts in a crash. I don't care how much grey plastic you put on the Aztek, it will still be a Montana underneath.

No flames meant, just observations.

dindak · January 2001

Bottom line is.. there is no data on the Aztek. Extracting data from another vehicle is wrong and unscientific. Wait for test results before concluding Aztek is "unsafe". If you are right in your prediction I will be the first to congratulate you.

I have no problem with concern for safety, but calling the Transport a "death trap" is a bit much. At worst, it's safety rating is only acceptable. The data shows 5 star side impact, 4 star driver and the only marginal point is the three star front passenger at three stars.

Peace.

teo · January 2001

I have seen crash testing scores inconsistencies on cars built on the same exact basic platform. Case in point, the W-body cars from GM:

(2000 model year):

* Chevrolet Impala: 5 stars front/4 stars side

* Buick Regal: 4 Stars front/3 stars side

* Olds Intrigue: 4 stars front/2 stars side

So illustrate my point, notice how the safety scores for these 3 W-body sedans vary from one car to the next while they are built on the same basic platform.

For instance the Y2K Impala already meets 2003 Safety Goverment standards, while the other W-body sedans that scored a bit lower only meet current 1997 Government safety standards.

So, until the Aztek completes the crash testing proceedings and final results are posted, it will be very difficult to know how it will rate against the FWD V-6 GM Minivans. Who knows, the Aztek quite possibly already addresses the weaknesses of the GM Minivans on which it shares its basic platform. On the other hand, the Aztek might exhibit worse results than its minivan counterparts.

I appreciate JMatero efforts to increase awareness of the safety faults on the current GM FWD Minivan platform. Safety for me is also paramount and it plays a very significant part on the type of vehicle I purchase.

I also think Dindak has a point in saying that until the Aztek results are released to the public, nothing is written in stone at this point in time, so we all can go back and forth here for weeks fighting and claiming that the Aztek is unsafe because it is a "montana" minivan in disguise, etc.

Let's show some civility and let's try to keep this forum as objective as possible.

If you were a school teacher, would you tell one of students that they already failed the course without grading his final test paper?

Please guys, think! ;-)

pilot374 · January 2001

So it is CERTAIN that the Aztek will be restyled slighty..... When would that model come out? What would a restyling do to the value of the 2001 (original) model? Anybody got any ideas or are these questions unpredictable??

isellpotiac · January 2001

Check your figures on the safety of the CR-V. Insurance Institute of Highway Safety crash test rating was "marginal" for this vehicle. The Suzuki Grand Vitara tested higher and is a true off road vehicle. Read the owners manual for what is "safe" for use in your CR-V. Anyway back to the TOPIC. Just rec'd our first Versatrak Aztec and being in the snow capital of the world (Syracuse,NY) just finished running it through its' paces in snow that was 8" deep. Performance was excellent and you could actually feel the AWD system working. Every customer that I have been able to get behind the wheel of this vehicle wanted to buy it because of the ride quality. I do not understand earlier quote of "floaty feel" he must have been driving on a windy day. The Aztec I was just driving had a MSRP of $25,025. It was a base AWD with a towing package. As for safety of the vehicle in my opinion it was much safer feeling than the CR-V and the Explorer that I drove when I went to the Aztec ride and drive(school for car salesman put on by GM and professional drivers on a closed course).

Pontiac Aztek

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