Are Toyota's recent quality problems just a glitch?

PF_Flyer · February 2007

Let's stop talking about each other and stick to the topics please.

Let it go and move on.

gasmizr · February 2007

Depends on how much you want to spend. I am 6'3" and have the same problems, leg and headroom are short in most cars. I have had Honda's for a long time. I am finally giving up my 96 civic lots of leg and head room to my 17 year old. Supposed to pass her drivers test today. I digress. I looked at most of the cars you listed but not the Versa. To small for a family of 5 even in a pinch with all tall teens. The current Accord headroom was lacking and the way the pedals are does not help leg room plus when you try to get some height on the seat it scissors forward taking away leg room and there is no power seat option on Honda. Camry, looked but with all the tranny issues I decided to pass, plus when you start putting options on a Toyota the price rises rapidly. I bought an Altima. The auto(CVT) I did not like because the parking brake position bothered my left leg. It is in a weird spot about 6 inches in from the drives footwell where you would expect the clutch and sticks out into space. The 6 speed has a handbrake, problem solved. Plus you can get the car with a power seat and no sunroof. At my height no sunroof is a must and so is the power seat to be comfortable. Drive the Altima manual with the convienence package you may be supprised. :shades:

geo9 · February 2007

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070119/AUTO01/701190358/1148
:lemon:

lemko · February 2007

...on my way home yesterday afternoon - a Toyota Solara ragtop. This one was white with a tan top. Did Toyota make a Solara convertible or is this an aftermarket conversion?

210delray · February 2007

Yes, we all know about that one. Meanwhile farther down in the same article, it says:

Toyota, which is adding production capacity faster than any automaker in North America, faced nagging questions about its quality after 2.2 million recalls in 2005. But the world's No. 2 automaker managed to reduce recalls by about two-thirds in 2006 and continues to lead the industry in most quality surveys.

So save that :lemon: for your next bottle of Corona!

210delray · February 2007

Yes, Toyota has made a Solara convertible since at least the 2000 model year. It's now in its second generation.

geo9 · February 2007

STILL...........Over 500,000 recalled this year SO FAR !
Not a good start for ANY automaker !

Sorry No corona for me......... I will save that lemon slice
for a TASTY Spaten Club Weiss ! :shades:

lokki · February 2007

This graph pretty well speaks for itself, I think.

Just in case it doesn't, here's what I think it says:

In 2005 Toyota significantly more recalls than in other years, but if any potential buyer wanted to reduce his chances of having his vehicle recalled, he'd do far better in any given year to bet on a Toyota than a GM DCX or Ford.

geo9 · February 2007

toyotas 07 recalls are quite alarming...........
500k plus so far this year and its only January !
Swirling down the bowl !

WOW.........GM going from 5 mill. to 1.6 is a KNOCKOUT
of a improvement 05 to 06 !

Seen this one already over at Det. news.com !
Surprising the toyota faithful would post it over here.... :confuse:

fintail · February 2007

Down to only double the competition...woo hoo!

Kirstie_H · February 2007

But I don't get overly anxious about the number of recalls. Most of them are relatively benign (I've had vehicles recalled for a bad trunk latch and noisy bushings, for example), and the work is done at no cost to me.

What I care more about is long-term quality, and defects that show up after the manufacturer warranty has expired. Those recall numbers tell me nothing about how severe the defects were, either. A faulty trunk latch or moonroof retractor is slightly different than a power control module defect.

rorr · February 2007

"But I don't get overly anxious about the number of recalls. Most of them are relatively benign..."

I'll second that opinion.

I've got a Toyota Celica which is currently subject to a recall. Aparently, the luminous intensity of the DRL's doesn't meet Federal guidelines.

Yawn.

lokki · February 2007

I agree that the number of recalls is not a totally relevant indicator of quality, however, I think that regardless of the type of problem covered by the recall,it's a handy-rule-of-thumb barometer of engineering and product testing by the manufacturers.

In short, while I'm pretty well speechless at geo9's worldview where some cuts and bruises on Toyota's reputation equates to GM's attempt to recover from 30 years of cancer,I do believe that Toyota needs to concentrate on avoiding future recalls, in order to maintain their current image.

A continuing trend WILL hurt Toyota if they don't act. But: they will act. The difference between their situation and GM's is that GM ignored the problem for decades and now has a bad reputation, while Toyota has had a good reputation for 20 years. GM is having to change an entire culture and corporate structure, while Toyota only has to return to the stringent engineering and quality controls they already had in the recent past.

Finally, even if Toyota had to invest $100 per car to ensure quality, they have plenty of money with which to do that and still make a nice profit. A luxury that GM doesn't have.

rockylee · February 2007

The funny thing is that Toyota's advantage on currency manipulation of $3-12K depending on price spares them enough enough extra cash to engineer out any problems. They have this luxury that the domestic's do not and still can't get it right. I hope these problems continue and just maybe american's perception will change some.

Rocky

t_rucky · February 2007

Toyota's advantage on currency manipulation?? WRONG!! Rocklee, your continuing efforts at changing Americans' perception are admirable, but often don't bear any relevance to the topic--in this case "Are T's Quality Problems just a glitch?"
Especially this latest barb about currency maniulation. What that has to do with quality is a stretch, particularly when you know full well that all domestic automakers do big business offshore, and ALL domestic automakers hedge against offshore currencies. Toyota has no greater or lesser advantage in this context than ANY other carmaker doing business globally.

rockylee · February 2007

I'm not going to start a arguement with you and we will have to just disagree otherwise it will get really off-topic with me providing facts.

Rocky

lokki · February 2007

What bothers me is the schadenfreude aspect of all this talk:

"I hope these [Toyota Quality] problems continue and just maybe american's perception will change some"

Great - let's hope that the Japanese company's quality falls to the level of the American companies' so purchasers of all cars can suffer equally bad quality.

What kind of wish is that for the American consumer?

The whole premise of capitalism is that the guy with the better product gets the business......

Oh wait, I said Capitalism, didn't I.

Never mind.

210delray · February 2007

The same thought crossed my mind. Let's hope that everyone raises the bar on quality, American, Asian, and European.

Kirstie_H · February 2007

Yes, one might as well say that if Toyota's quality falls, then domestic products might not look so bad in comparison.

If Cinderella gets a broken nose, her ugly stepsister might not look as hideous. Exaggeration, but you get the point.

anythngbutgm · February 2007

So basically its "Let's hope there is a level playing field so the domestics don't have to try as hard to compete."

There is a reason why quality glitches won't take Toyota down like it did the Big3. They'll correct their issues faster than the 3 decades it took to take down the domestics.

bottgers · February 2007

...their number of recalls so much, they're almost up to sucks now!

anythngbutgm · February 2007

And they are still twice as many as Toyota. Glad to see everyone imporving, but in no way is the recent spat of recalls indicative of the same pattern the Domestics went down. 5 - 10 years of this? Sure, then we can throw stones at Toyota.

c2rosa · February 2007

......With engine replacements costing as much as $10,000, the final tab could run into the billions. But the damage to Toyota 's reputation might be even more costly for the Japanese automaker. ....

See:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070207/AUTO01/702070349/1148-

for the complete story

lokki · February 2007

The sludge issue was a significant blow," said Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore. "Toyota's in the position that GM was in back in the 1970s. A lot of people were buying GM products in the '70s because they were GM products, but they had fractures at the edges. It took 15 years before GM started to suffer from that long-term negative word-of-mouth."

schmoozer · February 2007

I recenlty leased a 2006 toyota sienna xle, WOW you wouldn't beleive how many quality problems this vehicle has.
poerformance sucks... the biggest issue is, Toyota refuses to acknowledge that Sienna has quality issues, dealers are trained by Toyota engineers to tell customers thats the way the vehicles are made... which is a load of crap... I had a '04 Sienna which performed much better than the '06 and I hear that the '07 is even worse.
some of the quality issues worth mentioning are;
1. engine, pickup performance,
2. engine noise is louder than previous models
3. climate control issues.
4. automatic door issues
5. steering in cold weather issues

if this keeps up Toyota will go down so fast to 4th or 5th place.

rorr · February 2007

" I had a '04 Sienna which performed much better than the '06 and I hear that the '07 is even worse."

Interesting since the '04 was identical to the '06 and the '07 model got a substantial bump in hp/tq.

anythngbutgm · February 2007

The anti-Toyota smear campaign is well under way. Edmunds is not the only site being targeted. :sick:

210delray · February 2007

Well, it's really hard to comment on your post when you say the car had "issues." Specifics please?

rockylee · February 2007

Well I do "feel" for you. Look at it this way at least they are denying they have problems and it's all in your head instead of hiding the problems from you.

I know thats wrong.....

Rocky

rockylee · February 2007

Oh boo hoo !!!! Look at it this way at least the current crop of problems are limited to just car sites like this one. It could be worse as it could be in the mainstream media like if these problems happened to GM or Ford.

Rocky

210delray · February 2007

The Toyota sludge story was big when it broke 5 years ago, including a cover article in Automtive News. All Toyota/Lexus owners with the potentially affect engines received letters outlining the 8-year, unlimited mileage warranty extension at the time. Including me, who did NOT have sludge.

But then, I changed my oil and filter every 5K miles or less (doing it myself).

PF_Flyer · February 2007

Let's get away from the "domestics vs imports" thing that's brewing up here and stick to the discussion topics please.

NOBODY is proving anything one way or the other with a post here. Time to stop acting as if you're afraid that if someone sees something negative about your favorite brand of car that they'll hate it forever.

Let's take a deep breath and move on please

210delray · February 2007

Sorry if my post was out of line.

I have a suggestion though: because the sludge issue has migrated here, how about if the "Toyota Engine Sludge" forum gets closed (again), and the posts since the latter was recently reopened are transferred here?

Seems to me that having two separate forums is redundant.

anythngbutgm · February 2007

Why? It's more opportunity for the naysayers to promote their anti-Toyota propoganda.

t_rucky · February 2007

Excellent Advice!!

I posted the following elsewhere, and I suggest it also applies here. (Please don't interpret it a spamming.) Here goes:...

There is always more than one side to any controversy.
Often there are at least three views; "The Right Answer; The Wrong Answer; and Whatever Answer One Wants To See!!"

An example of this contention is an article this week in The Detroit News about this resurrected sludge issue:.....

It would be accurate to say that there have been enough issues with Toyota in the past couple of years that they don't have the spotless image they had a couple of years ago," said Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, an automotive research Web site.

But he adds that problems at Toyota attract a disproportionate amount of attention because of the automaker's sterling reputation for quality. "Most companies wouldn't get noticed for these problems."

Further complicating matters, sludge issues aren't clear-cut. Excessive heat, sediment, poor oil condition or a combination of those factors may thicken the oil. In engines with very narrow passages, small amounts of sludge may get stuck, causing damage.

DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group and Volkswagen AG are among the automakers that have faced complaints about engine sludge in their vehicles.

"There are reasons to believe that the engine design could be contributing to it, but there are also reasons to think that lack of maintenance or proper customer care is contributing," Brauer said. "Everything I've read indicates something kind of in between."

Now, as to the quality problems Toyota currently suffers, is this situation a glitch...or not?
If one follows the analogy I suggest in the above, it depends on individual perception. Obviously there is a myriad of views on the question, from one extreme to the other. That's what forums like this are for, right?

FWIW, my view on the matter coincides with the "somewhere in the middle" opinion expressed by Mr. Brauer of Edmunds.

nwng · February 2007

was the sludged engine limited to NA market? did yota have the same problem with the I4 & V6 in other markets?

anythngbutgm · February 2007

Popular Mechanics has an article which depicts the next generation Prius. Wonder how accurate they are here.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4212545.html

killerpiece · February 2007

If this picture is real, I like the new front end a lot better...

The headlights remind me of the Gallardo's! :surprise:

Killerpiece :shades:

rockylee · February 2007

Who's going to sit in the rear seats ? Ex Wizard of Oz "little people" actors ? :P

Rocky

geo9 · February 2007

According to this article from http://www.wsj.com
toyota realled MORE vehicles than they produced.
(In USA, N. America, worldwide, cars, trucks or both ??????????)
2.26 MILLION made
2.38 MILLION RECALLED
This does not bode well for almighty toyota

rockylee · February 2007

geo9,

I was in the January 9th WSJ talking about the Tundra's impact on the market.

Rocky

P.S. 2.38 million isn't good is it. :surprise:

bottgers · February 2007

...hasn't even come close to the number of recalls GM's had ;0)

geo9 · February 2007

Will have to check it out !

Ya know those 2.38 MILLION recalled toyota vehicles
must be a SMALL glitch................. :P

t_rucky · February 2007

A good idea, but it didn't last very long!!
Seems we're back again (still) to a "Them against Us" fiasco.
I'm wondering if it's within the host's purview to either.....(1)Put a stop to nuisance posts which add no value at all to the discussion; (2 Ask the nuisance posters to be civil, or go somewhere else; or (3) Close this topic because it's turned into a scrabble.

210delray · February 2007

All 3 are possible, with #2 being handled by e-mails directly to the offenders, and #3 has happened -- lots of times.

rockylee · February 2007

geo9,

Unfortunately like I read in other Toyota, forums the owners of reliable Toyota vehicles will blame the owners of the recall vehicle for the vehicle being recalled.

It's like Kirstie, has said no car company is perfect. I don't know why the faithful get so upset if their brand is having some recent glitches. Well I suppose 2.38 million isn't really a glitch is it ? It is a problem they are having right now and all car company's seem to have a few problems once in a while. This probably won't be the last of their problems and I'm sure GM, like toyota will have more "glitches" in the future.

I however would rather not hear any more talk though about how superior and flawless Toyota's are. That is why this issue is somewhat sensitive to some. GM and Toyota, should remain among the top for quality and reliability and that is something both car company's should be proud of.

Rocky

PF_Flyer · February 2007

Time to stop this "contest"

We get it. You do not agree on each other's choice of vehicle. Saying it over and over again does nothing to make your point, it simply gets annoying and continues the spitting match.

It's time to stop acting as if it's your duty to counter anything you see that doesn't agree with your view of the world.

Personally, I think we're in "cabin fever" time :surprise:

Let's drop the dispute and move on please.

drjames · February 2007

No, it's not an actual photo of the Gen 3 Prius... rather, an artists' rendering of what it might look like.

kyrpto · February 2007

Toyota is the world's leader in hybrid technology.
They revolutionized the business model for manurfactoring.
They have surpassed Mercedes in engineering safer vehicles.
The Camry remains the benchmark the big 3 keep chasing.

bigo08 · February 2007

I'll give them the first 3..thou iono about them beating Benz when it comes to safer cars

The Camry remains the benchmark the big 3 keep chasing.

Chasing :confuse: maybe 3 years ago... the Fusion performs just as good as the Camry.. it looks better than the camry.. and can be had with AWD.. thou the interior of the camry is better than the Fusions ,ill give them that .

The Saturn Aura is a fine example of how the big 2 are no longer chasing

But in the end all that matters is sales, and the Camry isn't losing the "best selling car" title anytime soon :sick:

Are Toyota's recent quality problems just a glitch?

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