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Subaru Outback vs Ford Freestyle
Hi, new to the site and not sure if this had been started yet, but as a very proud ownder of a 99 Outback, I am a little annoyed by the introduction of the Ford Freestyle wagon. It looks virtually identical to the Outback, down to the contrasting grey fenders and bumper, factory roof rack, and windows. Isn't there some kind of copyright infringement going on here? Is it okay to buy this car instead of the Subaru because maybe some people dind't want to buy a Japanese car? Well there is a difference, which is so typical for american cars, it's bigger, what's worse is it's classified as an SUV (how does that work?) which means different tax breaks.
Are all the car companies going to start jumping on the band wagon (er station wagon band wagon) now?
Are all the car companies going to start jumping on the band wagon (er station wagon band wagon) now?
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Comments
-mike
I have no idea what the Outback's safety rating is. The Freestyle is one of the safest vehicles on the market, such as the highest side-impact ratings WITHOUT side airbags.
-mike
Bob
I have a friend who purchased a 2005 Outback a few months before I got my 2005 Freestyle. It is a nice enough vehicle but much smaller than my Freestyle. He rode in my Freestyle and noted how much roomier is was. I also took a ride in his Outback and noticed how cramped I felt inside. I'm 4' 26" and there was barely enough room for my legs with the seat in the rearmost position. Plus, there is very little cargo room behind the rear seats whereas the Freestyle has lots of room. The OB does have nicer interior materials, but the lack of space and power (his is the 2.5i) in comparison to my FS confirms I made a good choice. Of course the OB is fine for those who don't need a larger AWD vehicle. The B9-Tribeca is more similar to the Freestyle than the Outback is.
Regards -
M. J. McCloskey
-mike
Actually though, the Freestyle doesn't look all that similar to the Outback:
http://images.consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/autoreview/400x266/2006-subaru- -outback-06810061990006.jpg
http://www.car-data.com/photos.30/p.ford.freestyle.30.1.jpg
If anything, the Cadillac XRX looks a lot like the Freestyle:
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/magazine/images/2006cadillacsrx/2006CadillacSRX- PanRight01Fixed.jpg
As does the Saturn Outlook:
http://spanish.autoblog.com/images/2006/04/5aa3de4188cea12ebb5deb05ba4dce01.jpg
The Tribeca is 10" shorter on the outside and inside, it has 6" less 2nd row legroom, 3" less 3rd row legroom, 2.5" less 3rd row headroom, and only 8CuFt of luggage space behind the 3rd row as compared to 20CuFt with the Freestyle. Comparisons can be made on other aspects, but in terms of interior space there is no comparison.
I agree that the FS is noticably larger than the B9, and more versatile too. However, my comment was to say the B9 was a better comparison to the FS than the OB. The Feb '07 issue of Automobile has a 'Four Seasons Wrap-up' on the B9. In summary, they place the B9 behind the FS, Pilot and new CX-9 in the 'booming' CUV segment. While the B9 certainly has its attributes, the full article confirms my choice of purchasing the FS was the best one for me. With just a bit over 32K miles in L/T 2 years, I hope my FS will provide me with many more trouble-free miles.
Regards -
M. J. McCloskey
Ford/Hyundai/Chevy/Dodge - All bottom feeders
I consider Subaru a more mid-line manufacturer, so although you can look at the figures, the level of manufacture, quality, reliability, etc are vastly different.
-mike
Plus if quality is the number one issue, then the Toyota Highlander or Honda Pilot are just as vastly better than Subaru then you claim the Subaru is vastly better then the others you mentioned.
And even if the quality of the Tribeca is slightly higher, if it doesn't meet the needs because of it's small size, then it doesn't make sense to buy it.
It would be like comparing an AWD Ford 500 to say an AWD A6.
Both are mid-size sedans.
Both are AWD.
Both have V6.
But would you really consider them comparable in both price and quality? I highly doubt it.
-mike
I know you are gonna pull out the "but the explorer is the #1 selling SUV in america, therefore it can't be bad" that's an old arguement that doesn't hold water.
-mike
Also, if you feel that Honda is vastly superior to Subaru, and Subaru is vastly superior to Ford, then what adjective will you use to compare Ford to Honda
Highs: Ride, access, visibility, useable third-row seat.
Lows: Engine noise, tire grip, stability control unavailable.
The Freestyle combines traits of a wagon, minivan, and SUV. Interior packaging is impressive, and even the third-row seat offers sufficient space for adults. Cabin access and visibility are commendable. The ride is firm but comfortable. Handling is fairly agile, although the Freestyle's tail slid easily in our avoidance maneuver. Unfortunately, stability control is not available. The V6 provides adequate performance and returns 18 mpg overall. Engine noise is pronounced when accelerating. Side- and curtain air bags will become standard later in the 2007 model year. Reliability has improved to average.
Nov. 05: Ford is recalling 127,493 Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego sedans and Freestyle wagons because the straps that secure the fuel tank to the vehicle body may break, causing the fuel tank and fuel tank heat shield to drop onto the driveshaft or exhaust system, the automaker and U.S. safety regulators said.
Recall no. 2:
Sep. 06: Latches/locks/linkages
Dealers will install a shield over the front latches; seal a drain hole in the rear window trim molding on the freestyle rear side doors; and apply grease to all front and rear side-door latch mechanisms free of charge. The side door latch mechanisms may experience water intrusion allowing the latch mechanism to freeze in cold weather as a result, the door latch pawl may not return to the latch position when the door is closed, and the door could open while the vehicle is moving.
Tribeca: 32%
Freestyle: 26%
I wouldn't want to be on the road with any of those CR drivers if they think they need stability control on the vehicle.
There's no arguing the fact that the Tribeca, with it's tiny 3rd row and practically no cargo space, is not a vehicle capable of carrying nearly the same amount of people and cargo as the Freestyle.
The Tribeca is more style over substance as a 7 passenger vehicle, so for those needing space for 6-7 people plus cargo, the Tribeca isn't even a consideration.
Now if you want to compare something to the Tribeca, then compare it to the Toyota RAV-4 or Highlander.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/results.cfmMake : SUBARU Model : OUTBACK Year : 2005
Manufacturer : SUBARU OF AMERICA, INC.
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V274000 Recall Date : JUN 04, 2004
Component: AIR BAGS:SIDE/WINDOW
To be fair, the Freestyle is a very interesting concept of a 7 pass wagon, while to say that the Tribeca is a 7 pass is like Pamela Anderson wearing an "A" cup bra. But I like Pamela even wit
About Subaru and Ford, every morning I wake up confident that today isn't the day when my car is going to let me stranded. This friday I'll let my home in Minnesota, all the way to Mackinaw, around the big lakes, on the cold, not being afraid of anything. And saturday morning the way to the autoshow is going to be a sweet drive. That's the Subaru advantage. If you can get that on your Ford, lucky you.
If you look at my garage, none of the subies fit my needs, so I opted for something different.
I needed true 6 passenger space (way more than the FS by the way) and towing (also way more than the FS) and opted for an Armada.
I could come up with the same arguements you use against the Tribecca against the FS. My Armada can tow significantly more (9100lbs) than the FS, it can fit 6 Paisan-size adults, it's got stability control, Front and Rear LSDs, AWD, 305hp/385lbs torque, rides like a caddy, handles like a porsche, and is zippy 0-60 is around 7 seconds...
So please don't come on here ripping the Outback for not fitting YOUR needs, when if you were shopping for one to try to have it fit your needs, you were shopping the wrong vehicle!
-mike
Given my experience with Fords (Taurus, Freestyle, Five Hundred), and that of my brothers with Honda and Toyota (Camry, Civic, Celica, and the Honda minivan), I'd have to strongly disagree.
That's really the issue, IMO.
Unfortunately, Toyota and Honda earned their reputation primarily back in the 80's . . when their vehicles were so "pedestrian" that there just wasn't much on them to go wrong. That makes a direct comparison to the Fords and Chevy's a bit like apples to oranges, IMO.
Not to say that Ford and Chevy had the greatest cars back then . . but they've certainly improved, starting in the late 80's.
Now if you want to bring your Armada into the mix...hmmm. You say that it, "handles like a porsche" but based on this webpage http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trimCompare.jsp?acodes=USB70NIS101A0,USB70FOC191A- - - 0:
Armada/Freestyle
0-60mph 7.7 seconds/ 7.3 seconds
1/4 mile 15.8 seconds at 90 mph/ 15.6 seconds at 93 mph
Lateral acceleration .70 G/ .80 G
Slalom 52.9 mph 58.0 mph
Front legroom 41.8 "/ 41.2 "
Rear legroom 41.9 "/ 40.4 "
Third row legroom 32.2 "/ 33.3 "
Front headroom 41.0 "/ 39.4 "
Rear headroom 40.0 "/ 39.7 "
Third row headroom 35.9 "/ 38.6 "
So it doesn't seem much bigger inside (yes, it's a lot bigger outside), nor does it seem any more porsche-like.
But yes, it can really tow a lot!
Take your #s and put them in a spreadsheet, but I live in the REAL world, again it's the feel that you don't get bench-racing which is all you are doing with those numbers.
BTW Armada is 0-60 is 7.1 seconds not 7.7
-mike
I'm sorry you’re intimidated by someone using facts and numbers rather then overgeneralizations. But to give you some more numbers, yes the Armada is a little more roomy inside, but then it’s 10” taller, 4” wider, and 7” longer so it should be, and while it’s roomier inside it’s not by much. Mostly in hip room, but then maybe that’s what the "6 Paisan-size adults" need :P
Oh you're right...that 0.6 sec 0-60 difference really makes the Armada drive like a porsche...my mistake.
As a certified track instructor, I'm pretty well qualified to know what porsche handling is like. I base my judgements on getting out there, throwing the car around, hauling stuff, travelling long distances and spending time in a vehicle.
As I said, the Armada handles very well for the power, size and capacities it has.
I'm sure the FS is great for what YOU need it for, however don't claim it to be the be-all and end-all.
-mike
-mike
My humble advice is to find a dealer who offers you a big discount on a Freestyle and buy it. After all, when I had a car that I didn't wanted to buy (following my wife's advice) I hated until I see it go.
Peace and Love
Anyway, you were the one bringing up the Armada in this forum, do try not to get so defensive just because some brings up some facts you don't like. Maybe "certified track instructors" don't like hearing thing contrary to their opinions. And I read your profile, so I realize that cars are such a personal issue with you. For me they're appliances with wheels to get from point A to B and I look at practical things when purchasing: does it meet my needs, safety, cost, reliability, etc.
My humble advice is for folks not to overgeneralize so much on anything and try using logic and facts over "feelings" a little more when comparing cars. These are just cars you know.
-mike
To get back on track to the subject of this forum, while the Outback is a good vehicle, since it only holds five folks, it's hard to consider it a competitor to the Freestyle even if it is similar in looks.
And for those coming into this forum with an anti-Ford bias, at least state you have an anti-Ford bias as a disclaimer at the end of your posts
-mike
Recall was performed on dealer lots if not at plant only.
Krzys
MPG:
Armada: City 13 Highway: 18/19
Freestyle: City 20 Highway: 27
I never tow, and I don't need or want such a heavy vehicle as the Armada. The two are actually in completely different classes of vehicles.
Also, my wife is short, and the Freestyle seats do not require any climbing.
Each vehicle has to fit the person who is buying it, the fact that the FS has 3 rows may work against it and for the Outback. Just as towing is important to me but gas milage isn't. (Crude was down $6/barrel overnight last night Yippie!)
I actually get 13.5 consistently in city driving and about 22 on the highway. Towing 6,000lbs I get 15 on the highway at 75
Then again I'm pulling a cig-boat with a 454 that gets 2.5mpg so 15mpg is awsome!
-mike
The Freestyle we bought carried a twin bed mattress, box spring and a lot of other stuff when we were moving children to and from college last summer.
The Outback and Freestyle are not comparable vehicles. The disparity in cargo capacity is just too great. The Toyota Higlander is far, far more comparable to the Freestyle than the Outback.
I considered the Freestyle, but my wife was dead-set on a Subaru. So, that (primarily) in conjunction with the reactive AWD and the CVT (bleah!) booted the Freestyle from consideration. I have little confidence that the '07 Subaru Outback will be spared from warranty visits, and I am a little uncertain about the long-term durability of the exterior plastics, but mechanically this car will serve me well.
I might even be able to get over 200K on the rear brake pads... eh, Mike?! :P
-Wes-
-mike