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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)
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Comments
The service manager says that this is the way Subaru's work and nothing is wrong. I was able to do the same thing with a used 99 Impreza that they loaned me, so possibly it is a Subaru quirk.
Has anyone out there had similar problems or concerns, and what has been done to resolve the issue?
Mike
I have to say that the Subaru brakes are a LOT better and firmer than my Tracer.
What I find perplexing is that in just about every review I've ever read on a Forester, everyone complains that Subaru brakes feel "spongy." I have always wholeheartedly disagreed with that desciption and have considered them easy to modulate. Not too touchy and not too mushy.
The bottom line, IMHO, is that if they are truly hitting the floor and you are not stopping so hard the your seat belt locks up and your head whips forward, then something is definitely wrong with your brakes.
If you are stopping hard and short, but just "feels" like it is hitting the floor, I would guess you're just not used to the feel of Subaru brakes.
I have tried locking up the brakes going downhill on wet pavement and they did not go to the floor before the (it felt like) front brakes (only) went into ABS mode. I thought that under these conditions that the back brakes would slide and go into ABS mode also, but from what I can tell in the drivers seat, the back brakes did not cause the wheels to slide or go into ABS mode. This may be ok as I don't know how the proportioning system will react to this situation. I don't know if the seat belts locked up. I was not aware of anything happening there and I wasn't checking for it. When we get another rainy day I will check to see what the belts do.
The reason I brought this up on this board is that I thought I had seen where someone else had posted some concerns about these brakes, but I couldn't find it in the search I did.
Mike
The base X model looks like a great value, especially since they made 16-inch tires standard across the line.
But I'm having a hard time justifying making the $2,350 jump (MSRP) to the XS. The weather package with limited slip would be a plus in winter, and the cassette/CD changer would be convenient. But I'm not sure those two things are worth $2,350. (I know you get some cosmetic upgrades too, but those aren't a big deal to me.)
Am I missing something here? With the '02s the 16-inch tires gave you a good reason to go up to the mid level. But with the '03s I'm not seeing it.
Mike- Pumping any vehicle's brakes will cause them to firm up. Also, you don't need to wait for another rainy day to check your brakes. Just pick an empty parking lot, accelerate to 30 mph and hit the brakes as hard as you can. You should stop in very short order. If not, something's wrong.
-Frank P.
You're right though, the new X model is a very good value. It's a tough choice.
Bob
Bob
Has anyone tried to replace the 2 map lights in their Forester? I've got the '02 L and I'm a little disappointed with the strength of the light. I remember renting a 99 Alero and the maps lights were strong enough to keep me up going from Toronto to Montreal at 2am. The dome light I don't mind, I can live with it as it is. The map lights I want something brighter.
Any suggestions on particular bulbs? Bulb sizes? Installation and difficulty? Colour?
Thanks.
Mike
Mike: that does not sound right. Call 800-SUBARU3 and push the issue. I'd ask for them to replace the dual-stage booster, the ABS, the brake lines, the fluid, whatever it takes. Get a case number and we'll put you in touch with Patti.
It can take a while to get used to the dual-stage booster. The advantage is that it offers smoother operation. Slight pressure on the brake pedal slows it gradually, more pressure invokes full braking power. So the brakes aren't as touchy as most, yet they're quite effective.
But the pedal going to the floor is not normal.
The XS' alloy wheels are not only cosmetic, they also reduce unsprung weight and this aids in handling. The side mirrors are bigger (at least they were on 2002 models) so if you tow you get better visibility to the sides. There's also the 6 CD changer. Plus you get rear disc brakes instead of drums, which will cool better and resist fade more.
Then again, the base model has ABS anyway, and the unpainted cladding is more practical. The stuff is like teflon and resists scratches and chips far, far better than any paint would. You still get a CD player, AWD, same size rims and same tires, so it's a strong value if you are bargain hunting.
-juice
And gee, if I go to the XS, it's not much more oif a leap to the Premium with that big moonroof ... oh my.
Next stop: test drive. Thanks again!
Casey
Ken
They checked it and told me that it is a "pinging" or "backfire" situation.
SOA representative that happen to be at the dealer site this day suggested to apply recall WWF-89 to my car. (They told me - that this recall should fix backfire. Also serviceman told me that gasoline blend also affects backfire (They particularly blame BP blend). - Interesting suggestion.).
Now I have this sound less othen when engine/trasmission are warmed-up, but still have it when transission is cold.
Can anyone with backfire problem describe me sound. Because I hear some metallic click sound.
How many gears (including overdrive) have Forester Automatic Trasmission?
Owner's Manual says 4 - but does it include overdrive or not? Because while I'm driving I count transmission switching gears 4 times that makes it 5 gears?
First upshift - around 10mph - from 1 to 2
Second upshift - around 20-25 mph - from 2 to 3
Third upshift - around 35-40 mph - from 3 to 4
Fourth upshift - around 45-60 mph - from 4 to 5 (overdrive)?
As I already posted before - I hear some clicking sound when AT upshifting from 2 to 3 gear.
I'm just confused - may be it's not transmission
- may be it's something "turned on/off"/"shifted"
somwhere in torque converter/"what else exists in powertrain"?
Steve
I think one of the shift you heard/felt maybe the AWD shift from 50/50 split to 80/20 (don't quote me on the split).
-Dave
Ross
-Brian
But I see on tahometer that engine start having less rpm's when it happens - so for me it looks like another upshifting.
Is it suppose to be like that? And if everyone experiensing the same thing?
BTW: is this 'locking' a normal thing? Is it suppose to be? Because I never had this happened on another cars.
Last year - in VA - mixed city/highway 20-24 mpg.
Highway (~75mph) - Washington,DC - Baltimore, MD - 28.5 mpg.
This year - in OH - city 19-21 mpg.
Highway (~85mph) - Columbus,OH - Buffalo, NY - 24.5 mpg.
For me looks like at 75mph fuel economy is better than at 85mph.
And the closer to sea-level - fuel economy is also better.
1->2 First shift
2->3 Second shift
3->4/OD (torque converter lockup) Third shift.
-Dave
The 4EAT is 4 gears, 4th being O/D. But, it kind of comes in 2 stages, locked and not locked. When 4th is first engaged, it's not locked. The ECU determines when to 'lock up' the converter to 4th, causing the RPM's to drop and hold much like they would in a manual. I believe 3rd may also exhibit this behavior, but it probably doesn't stay in 3rd long enough for this to happen (it shifts to 4th instead).
{pardon the non-techinical answer, I'm sure a more technical answer will come along shortly}
-Brian
My guess is one of the changes you sense is either the lockup torque converter, the AWD shifting power, or the rear LSD locking up.
I believe the torque converter locks up right after you get moving along, so it may be what you're feeling at 10mph. An auto tranny allows slip (it has to so you can idle while not moving forward), but once you get going and the engine and tranny are in synch in terms of speed, the torque converter locks 'em up so you don't lose energy.
Casey: slip is OK, you may still get a lot of miles out of that clutch. When it does fail, look at it as an opportunity to get an ACT clutch for some serious clamping power.
-juice
I checked some articles on the web.
I think what looks like upshifting at 45-55 mph is actually a torque converter clutch is locked.
Looks like not all AT types have torque convertor. That's why I didn't saw this 'upshifting' on other cars.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter.htm
also, look up the one on automatic transmissions if interested.
-Brian
See why I was confused.
-Dave
You'll notice the lockup part more when your vehicle/engine is cold. It'll shift into 4th (or OD), but the converter will not lockup until operating temperature is reached.
On our Outback, if you put the 4EAT in '2', it starts in 2nd and stays there. Starting from a standstill, you'll hear the engine rev quite like a manual as the vehicle starts to roll. This is a case of a torque converter NOT locked. You want slippage here so the engine and tranny can get to speed. Think of a locked torque converter in this case as starting a manual in 2nd from a standstill, but just letting the clutch out fully without getting the vehicle rolling.
-Brian
Ken
Thanks Brian
-Dave
Edmund's has some of the 2003 info available at last. Obviously no TMV pricing this early, but invoice prices are there and at quick glance appear the same as VanBortel's prices. So...who is going to be the first one to post a review of the '03?? My first Subie won't be long in coming now! Happy reading!
Roadrunner
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
To the new XS owners out there: How do you like the automatic climate control? Does it keep the temperature consistent even if you are driving in cloudy-to-sunny-to-cloudy conditions? Do you consider it "set and forget" to the point where you turn the car on and drive and never have to tinker with the temperature?
I am still considering trading up my '99 Forester L for an XS Premium, but I'm still on the fence if I will see a significant enough difference to justify the cost of upgrading.
Thanks!
E
-- Casey
The interior has definitely gone upscale. Seats are much more comfortable (at least for the short time I sat in them) than the old ones. The fabrics in both models are much nicer and the dimpled vinyl on the dash and side panels looks very good. The leather steering wheel, shift knob and brake handle in the XS are also nice.
The tilt wheel adjustment finally has a spring so it does not fall into your lap when you release the lever. The paint colors are really spectacular, but they are offered in fewer combinations than before (for example, the XS is not available in white except in the monotone that is part of the sunroof package).
The driver seat has only a single height adjustment, so you cannot adjust the tilt of the seat bottom independently. The door pockets are now mesh, so that you can see everything in them and the small storage compartments in the armrests no longer have covers, so everything there is visible too. This may be convenient in some respects but can also look cluttered and invite theft.
The top of dash compartment is larger than before and you already know about the TWO sunglasses compartments overhead. The glovebox also appears to be slightly larger. The front cupholders have been moved to the console which now has a 12 volt outlet in the storage compatment to charge a phone without the cord hanging over the shifter. The clock is moved to the top of the dash, just below the storage compartment. Unlike in the WRX, it stays if the optional auxillary instruments are mounted. The regular instruments have changed greatly. More on that below.
There is marginally more leg room in the back seat than before. Sitting in the back seat, you have a very enclosed feeling. The glass starts higher than before and is thus not as open.
The X has three rotary knobs for HVAC controls, much better than the fan slider of before. The XS has automatic climate control with very simple rotary driver controls. One knob sets temperature, one manually overrides fan speed, one sets air distribution, just like in a manual system, and you can select either automatic or manual modes.
The 16" steel wheels on the X are reasonably nice looking and from a distance might be mistaken for alloys. The alloys on the XS are OK, but IMHO not as nice as earlier ones. They expose almost the entire brake caliper assembly which is ugly.
Some bad points:
Price remains almost the same, in spite of some added features and upgrades, including side airbags now standard. However, some items have been deleted: Mud flaps (now optional for $150), the cargo compartment tray, the rear bumper protector. There are some new options such as a complete set of cargo nets. The deluxe package that previously also gave you upscale wheels and side airbags, now is only the sunroof and monotone paint, at the same price as before, thus, not as good a value.
The instruments are rotten. I think Subaru knows this because in the brochure there is not one interior shot that shows them. The tach is de-emphasized and placed on the right, the temp and fuel gauges on the left. The combined odometer readout is below the speedo, along with the outside temp gauge. The pointers are red and they are mounted in a shrouded cluster. I was hoping for the nice gauges with orange pointers as used on the WRX. The optional auxillary gauges are the same as before.
The seat fabric in the XS, while very attractive, has an embossed pattern that is a guaranteed crumb and dirt catcher. Likewise the deep tuck in the seat bottom in both models.
I was hoping for more power, but perhaps if rumors come true, it will happen next year.
I was not able to get information on gearing, but perhaps the poorer EPA mileage is a result of gearing changes.
Anyway, they are on the lots and the brochures are in.
1->2
2->3
3->4 without lockup TC
4->4 with locked TC
Basically the way an AT works is that you have the outputshaft from the engine that is providing power connected to a turbine/fan-blade type disc that is inside your torque converter filled with ATF. Inside this torque converter the spinning blades on the engine side spin the ATF that in turn spins the blades on the transmission side. Thus, this fluid can allow for slippage between the engine and the transmission, which is why you don't need to put it in neutral when your car is at a traffic light etc.
On a lot of new vehicles in 4th gear they can electronically "lockup" the torque converter which basically puts the 2 sides of the torque converter (engine and transmission sides) spinning at the same rate. On my Trooper for example both 3rd and 4th gear get locked up via electromagnetically controlled means connecting the tranny to the outputshaft.
Hope this helps.
-mike
I am glad that the tops of the door panels aren't covered in cloth anymore. I wore the driver's side one down a little going through toll booths until I got an EZPass. The dimpled vinyl, which reminds me a bit of something you'd see in a VW, looks like it will be tough to keep clean. I can picture little pools of Vinylex, sweat, and gunk collecting in those dimples.
I do like the revised console and the additional 12V outlet for us "business travelers." I also like the HVAC controls but not sure about the gauge cluster. I'd never go for the optional gauge pack since I've come to really like the center storage bin on the dash top.
I don't care for the mesh door and console pockets, but I will say that I probably wouldn't scrape them the way I do the hard plastic door pockets when I reach down to adjust the seat with the door closed. I have mesh pockets on the back of the front seats already and like them.
Here's something I don't understand: why are the (extra-cost) mud flaps painted? Aren't they going to get chipped by flying gravel anyway? Please forgive my language but that seems asinine.
I'm trying harder but while the new car looks better in person than in photos, I still think the '98-'02 looks better. The side sculpting on the '03 is too busy, and the nice subtle fender bulges of the previous model are gone. (Note: I'm one of those who wishes the WRX wagon had fender buldges, too.) Rochcom - I did notice that the greenhouse glass starts higher; this makes the greenhouse look more integrated than in the '98-02, which I must admit looks a little like it was stretched vertically like a Silly Putty picture or Toyota Echo. While I haven't warmed up to the rear styling, the new rear glass does allow for more visibility than the old.
The XS Premium I sat in was red and had - gasp! - dealer-installed gold-plated chrome trim. I have never seen this on a Subaru and must say it is unbelievably tacky and jarring, especially with the new smoky blue background on the corporate logo. Of the new colors, I liked the black best (then again, I would) followed by the blue and green.
So this jury's still out. I'll have to drive one, now and hopefully when it receives more power.
Ed
If they do offer a 2.5L, I hope that it's not just going to be a "WRXed Forester;" by that I mean just a high-performance version of the existing Forester. I certainly want high performance, don't get me wrong; but I would hope the added displacement would be put to use by making the Forester more functional, in the *utility* sense. Yes, I mean increased towing , better off-road capability, etc.
If they just make it another speed demon, without addressing those other issues, I think a great opportunity will have been lost.
Bob
OK, fellas/ladies. I got a few things to ask/talk about here.
Gas mileage: I just did some calculations of my gas mileage over the Memorial Day weekend on my 2002 Subaru Forester S (now with 6500 miles on the odometer). Y'all tell me if these numbers sound normal for the vehicle, considering I had a fuel system issue that put it in the shop 9 days after I bought it. It has an automatic transmission, by the way. The mileage is in chronological order from oldest to most recent:
85% city/15% highway: 290.9 miles / 14.940 gallons / 19.47mpg
Ran the A/C about half the time here, since the week before Memorial Day was nice in Atlanta.
95% highway/5% city: 372.4 miles / 14.071 gallons / 26.47mpg
Ran the A/C most of the drive during this stretch.
95% highway/5% city: 377.0 miles / 15.008 gallons / 25.12mpg
During this stretch, I sat in stalled traffic for nearly an hour on the insterstate with the A/C on and off as needed.
Disconnecting the battery: I volunteered to try resetting the ECU in my vehicle to see if that solved some of the startup hesitation mentioned earlier. I was told that the radio presets would have to be reprogrammed. Is that all? What about the remote keyless entry (no security system). If I don't have to reprogam that, I'd like to know. I read the instructions on how to do it and didn't find the procedure to be the easiest in the world. Let me know, and I'll try the ECU reset this weekend.
Thanks,
burnsmr4
dcab -- Gearing might be different between the two models, but what I think you might be seeing is a relatively new TCU. You'll find that two vehicles with the same specs, one driven differently compared to the other will exhibit different shift points due to what the TCU has "learned".
Ken
Ed
Here's MRT's version:
http://www.wrx.org.au/tech/
You got to scroll down to "How to reset your ECU (without disconnecting your car battery!)"
-Dave
I just think a 2.5L (vs. a 2.0L) engine, could open the doors to a potentially (much) larger market for the Forester. Not only will it attract speed freaks (like most of us), but also (more) utility freaks too.
Bob
I won't miss the upscale wheels on the old Premium package, didn't they have the gold highlights? I prefer the ones without the gold.
Also, side air bags are standard, so it's not like the Premium loses anything. Yes, the package still costs the same, but IMO it's still a bargain. For the cost of a tiny aftermarket moonroof you get a huge one.
-juice
Look at how easy to tune the 1.8T VW engine is. A $360 chip would take a 150hp engine close to 200hp. So I hope Subaru comes out with a 200hp LPT, good for towing and off road.
The speed freaks (like me) can just chip it to produce maybe 240hp or so. Droooool!
-juice