Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

rsholland · June 2002

That's why the Vigor has such a long hood.

Bob

bsvoller · June 2002

I've been tempted to go for a metal skid plate, too, but I wonder what the impact on the front crumple zone might be.

Semms to me that adding a metal plate has to change the dynamics, most likely for the worse, no ?

paisan · June 2002

It would just pop off in an accident and slide on the floor or be crushed just the same. Most are aluminum and not as strong as the sub-frame. Besides aren't crumple zones on the other guy's car?

-mike

ateixeira · June 2002

Yep, Bob, and a long wheelbase too. That usually translates into tons of leg room, but not in that car.

Same with BMW 3 and 5 series, which also have longitudinal engine layouts (for the 2.5l and 3.0l models).

I also felt the passenger foot well in the CR-V wasn't particularly roomy. It actually wasn't very comfortable to sit up so high unless you were driving (my wife drove, and liked it).

-juice

cat_and_bear · June 2002

Just to answer a few questions here...

1. I feel that the C&D '03 review is just a half-baked effort at best. Definitely it was not done by the best C&D writer. It makes sense for Subaru's PR to send C&D a manual X model but it is odd that the car would come equipped with brush guard and extra gauges... push the sticker price higher yet gain you nothing in a car review.

2. The C&D's claim about the wind noise around the A pillar is plain wrong, or at least, not with our 03 XS. We can only hear wind noise around the B pillar, or more precisely, the roof rack cross-bar right above the B pillar when going over 40MPH. I am sure the noise will go away if the cross bars are removed.

3. Radio seek button... XS'es radio can do auto seek with the tuning knob. X'es tuning buttons can not do auto seek but it has a separate auto scan button. C&D put no seek button as one of the major complaints? Hello?

4. Based on the C&D test numbers, the car idles at 39db and does 70db at 70MPH. The car is quiet enough. Even some Lexus can not make 39db at idle.

5. It is interesting to see Road & Track has the guts to rank BMW M3 at the bottom 7th car last month and put Infiniti G35 above BMW 330 this month when C&D would put out a list of mistakes/misinfos in a simple review.

6. Options.. our car came with the auto dimming mirror and upgraded speakers. The mirror is surely useful. The speakers perform better than what we have expected so no complaint either. Later we bought an air filter, a whole set of cargo nets, and the rear spoiler. Silicon Valley can get dusty so the air filter is a must have. The cargo nets do not have as much capacity as what we originally thought. We seldom use them now. The spoiler... well, it looks really nice on the car. We love it! Probably we will get the armrest extension next. It is good for long distance drive. Oh, we got all of the parts at cost. I installed the nets and spoiler myself. You can save money by getting things later. No need to get anything right at the front.

7. Interior color. Only XS, non-premium Red has the gray interior.

8. The sunroof does not tilt.

9. For drivers, we found 03 had more legroom than CRV. CRV's steering position is bad.

10. I am not 100% sure here... it seems the CD changer can only do random play within one CD.

-bear

dcab · June 2002

There is no Red XS (non-Premium). Only Black, Blue, Silver, Gold, and Green. There is a Red 2002 S and a Red 2003 X, but it also comes with a beige interior. By the way, subaru.com incorrectly lists the Green XS and the Red XS Premium as having a gray interiors. We liked the Green XS but didn't care for the beige. It's got too much yellow or something in it and clashes with the metallic center console. So we went with a Silver XS instead.

cat_and_bear · June 2002

Oh, yes, you are right. No Red with gray interior here in the U.S. I mistook the Japanese model XT for XS here. Sorry for the mistake.

-bear

jimmyp1 · June 2002

http://www.msnbc.com/news/768225.asp

Ooops!

Jim

lark6 · June 2002

Nothing new or of merit in it, just discussion of testing at Talledega Speedway. Notes that Forester not for "hot-footers" (quoting from memory, didn't buy the mag) and not to expect the turbo. Interesting that the piece describes Forester as "the perfect SUV for San Francisco." The reason given is the return of the Hill Holder clutch. However, given Automobile's right-wing bent I wonder if this isn't a jibe at SoA's marketing strategy. P.J. O' Rourke is a frequent contributor to Automobile; in this issue he and DE Davis Jr. live the high life as they careen around in a Lincoln Blackwood and Cadillac Escalade EXT (the Caddy Avalanche) playing great white hunter on a South Carolina Lowcountry plantation.

I know this isn't my typical writing tone but the combination of articles irked me a bit. O'Rourke belongs in the National Review - or at least the National Lampoon - not a car magazine. For those who like politics in their car mags, at least Automobile counters with Jamie Kitman, whose columns in the UK's CAR are to the left of his US pieces.

Overall, Automobile did like the Forester and DED Jr. has praised it and the WRX in his own personal column. I may still buy the issue.

Ed

ateixeira · June 2002

I imagine they could combine the Concorde and Bunny ads...nah, never mind. ;-)

I hate it when auto editors get political, and C&D is the most guilty of this. Loosh goes as far as to call them "Nutcase Militia Monthly". They are totally paranoid.

-juice

lark6 · June 2002

I still buy C&D from time to time but skip over the prime culprits, Yates and Bedard. I still want to run in the One Lap of America someday, though.

Ed

ateixeira · June 2002

Yates drives a massive Dually and a Mini Cooper S. Can you think of two more radical opposites?

-juice

kate5000 · June 2002

I've got tired of their mistakes, strange test results, endless admiration for Bavarian products and opinionated editorials. Well, an editorial is supposed to opinionated, is just that their opinion is too annoying. For next year, I'll probably keep subscription to Autoweek and of course there's always some car info in Consumer Reports. But R&T, C&T, MT and Automobile are gone now from my subscription list.

ateixeira · June 2002

Actually the biggest error in the C&D report is the weight. I still can't explain that. Maybe they had a pre-production sample?

Other mags report consistently lighter curb weights.

-juice

paisan · June 2002

I agree, I go out and do my own tests and/or talk to real owners...

-mike

ateixeira · June 2002

Yep, these boards are great, and a test drive tells all.

-juice

hypov · June 2002

jimmyp1 Jun 18, 2002 10:56pm
Are the animal rights advocate very certain that's a domesticated rabbit, or that that is even a rabbit?
Looks like a hare to me.

-Dave

subaru_team · June 2002

That would mean we've pulled our hare?

Patti

stever · June 2002

When I googled that last week, it was a cottontail, and cottontails were rabbits, not hares.

Dang, now I'm gonna be humming "Here comes Peter Cottontail" all day again...

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

rangerron7 · June 2002

"Hare today, gone tomorrow"

subaru_team · June 2002

now isn't that splitting hares?

rangerron7 · June 2002

ducktapeguy · June 2002

Has anyone else gotten the letter from subaru saying they needed the forsters to be reprogrammed? I think this only applied to the 2000-2001 models, something about the ECU needs to be reprogrammed for some reason, or the check engine light will come on. I've only seen one post about it in the last 3 weeks, maybe this was discussed a while ago? Does anyone know exactly what they're gonna do, and if my car works fine, do I really need to take it in? I'm pretty happy with the way my car runs right now, getting about 25 mpg, I'm afraid after I take it in my mpg will drop and I'll end up having a lot of problems i've never had before.

kens · June 2002

Oh boy.....It's Wednesday, isn't it?

Ken

ateixeira · June 2002

Yeah, and...

Chat is only tomorrow.

ducktapeguy: no worries, it's just a flash upgrade, they do not reset the ECU. Someone had it done and reported mileage was unchanged.

The change makes it more fault-tolerant, so do get it done, it'll only save you time and needless pain down the road.

-juice

kens · June 2002

Actually, my post was in reference to the "hare" jokes. I posted it just a second to late and another one slipped in before mine.

Ken

tidester · June 2002

You have to be quick as a bunny around here! <groan!>

tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories

joseph50 · June 2002

Have it done, but the guy at my dealer's service desk said over the phone not to make a special trip for it. It's OK to wait to your next oil change, inspection, or whathaveyou. No sense blowing away a morning of better part of a day having this done.

hypov · June 2002

steve_ Jun 19, 2002 12:01pm

Steve-

never got to see the commercial

was looking at the pic from msnbc.com Jim posted.

You mean cotton tail like

-Dave

kate5000 · June 2002

if it was showing mom and daughter saving runaway home pet rabbit from the dangers of the wild forest...

goldencouple1 · June 2002

the picture from hypov is a snowshoe hare in off-season coloration. Going by how tall it is and foot-size.

Was the creature in the commercial a short hare or a long hare? Because if it were a short hare, that would mean that the Rabbit Rescue folk had Subaru by the...

Never mind.

cat_and_bear · June 2002

Do not want to beat the dead horse again... but when talking about the errors in the C&D review, I can keep going, and going, and going... like the little pink bunny(why nobody has ever complained about the Energizer bunny?)

In the C&D review, it said that new Yokohama tires produced a *marked* improvement in grip such that the car could stop from 70-0 in 186 feet and reported a 0.77g skidpad number. The old numbers are 208 feet and 0.71g respectively.

Ok, so I checked the original C&D May, 1997 review(you can get it from their website), the '98 Forester S AWD had a 70-0 number 168 feet and skidpad 0.80g. The compact SUV comparison in the March 2001 issue stated 70-0 in 171 feet, and this was for the auto tranny S model!

Ok, ok, so the 70-0 has gone from 168-171 to 186!! Call this the new definition of "improvement!" Sorry, C&D, I found nowhere the 186 feet and 0.71g numbers in ANY of your issues. Probably you can enlighten me a little?

The same review complained that you had to remove the headrests to fold down the rear seats. Wrong again. You may have to pull out the headrests a little but there is no need to remove them. Yes, the floor will still be as flat as it can get, with the headrests or without.

Did C&D get a pre-production car? I do not think so. The car has been in production in Japan for quite a while. From the photos, the car has the US stock wheel rims, the extra gauges, the brush guard, the same engine, the correct tires...etc. It is as close to stock as it can be.

To log so many errors in a simple review is really no excuse... I believe C&D is doing this on purpose. Look at the way the numbers were quoted! Probably they just wanted to make CRVs performance numbers look less bad and to keep Escape as an all-around performance leader? You will be the judge.

-bear

kens · June 2002

bear,

It sounds like C&D might have some unpublished performance numbers from a Forester L.

If that's the case, then 208 vs. 186 and 0.71g vs. 0.77g is an improvement. Also, don't forget that the Forester S has rear disc brakes while the L and X have rear drums. I think that would affect braking distance.

Ken

stever · June 2002

The hosts are hopping mad about all these off--- oh, nevermind.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

cat_and_bear · June 2002

But think about this... Forester S could do 168 feet from 70 to 0. Definitely XS will be able to better this number. At the same time, X can only make it 186 feet. The difference will be close to 20 feet. I will not be very happy to accept this result if I am a X owner... And to be honest, rear drum brake will not make this much difference.

Another fact is that X now has the same tires as the S. X should have about the same skidpad as the S or even better. A lower number probably means softer suspension? Those numbers will only create more confusions and questions... what do you think?

-bear

kajko · June 2002

HI,

Is it just me, or does the Canadian Forester (see new review at Canadian Driver) have a different type of crossbars on the roof??

Speaking of roof racks... Do folks out there use the factory crossbars or is it worth spending the $$$ for Thule/Yakima setups?? I am thinking of putting a gearbox for light stuff (sleeping bags, etc.) and two AnkleBiters (bike railings). that combination is not necessarily needed together, but is there enough room on a 48"(120cm) bar for that?? Thanks in advance for any input.

tom

kens · June 2002

bear,

I agree that the test data is a little confusing. I wonder how much of it is just sampling error? Also, I would expect the new G900 tires to be better than the previous Geolandar HTs.

Two other factors that could affect the numbers:
- The XS gets EBD
- The XS weighs a little more, especially with the huge moonroof

Ken

armac13 · June 2002

have always been different from the American. We also don't have the roof strips that you get. I always found it amusing that the Canadian brochures contain the warning that the crossbars shown are the American and that ours are different. One would think that since the rest of it is uniquely Canadian, some enterprising employee could have snapped a picture of a Canadian car!
:-)

Ross

cat_and_bear · June 2002

Ken,

Probably we should take a different view... if the 70-0 208 feet number is for the type L, and S can get 168 feet, will pre 03 owners agree on this big 40 feet difference? Basically this gap will put the two cars in different classes. Odd, isn't it? Auto S got 171 feet. The old C&D numbers are fairly consistent actually.

EBD should not have any major impact on the braking test. On the other side, the lighter weight should give X some edge over XS?

ateixeira · June 2002

Bear: the 0.71g number was probably one of the tested L models. They had Ls in two different comparos, one which it won, the other it took 4th in a large group, not bad.

But the Ls had 15" rims and 70 series tires, so those are a thing of the past. Even the base X model has 16" rims now.

Test conditions (temps, surface traction, even driver) can affect results greatly. That's why I put more weight on a direct comparison, when cars are tested side-by-side on the same day.

C&D tested a Honda S2000 and took 6.8s to reach 60. The next one they tested took 5.8s. A WRX took 5.8s, and then the next one took 5.4s. An Escort LX-E hit 60 in 7.5, but an identical Mercury Tracer LTS took a whoppping 8.9, go figure. All were manual tranny, same body styles.

-juice

lilbluewgn02 · June 2002

Here you go...now just relax and enjoy!

and finally...

don't forget, kids..."hare today; gone tamale"

ateixeira · June 2002

I'm hungry now. I'm craving baby carrots.

-juice

Kirstie_H · June 2002

Not that you would forget, but...

Don't forget tonight's Subaru Forester Chat, with Mike Whelan, Senior Manager of Product Public Relations at Subaru of America.

Discuss the all new 2003 Subaru Forester tonight, 6pm PT/9pm ET.

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Edmunds.com

stever · June 2002

Since it looks like Subaru is dropping rabbits, Hogan, and Martina, maybe their ad agency should get you guys together for a focus group to figure out their next campaign. I like the idea of someone waxing poetic about their 4H or AWD in front of a monitor with Town Hall on the screen :-)

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

lark6 · June 2002

Reminds me of Bette Midler.

Ed

p0926 · June 2002

Steve- I assume you mean H-4 (as in horizontally opposed 4-cylinder engine) not 4H (a type of 4-wheel drive system that Subaru does not offer state side). I do like the commercial idea though. I'm pretty sure that the TH has helped Subaru sell hundreds of vehicles so it would be a nice gesture of appreciation.

-Frank P.

kate5000 · June 2002

Hi Bear,
You made quite a few very good points. I also had an impression that C&D review was written hastily, w/o double-checking of figures and such. A sloppy job, I have to say.
Why don't you want to write a letter to C&D? They even may publish it, and you will enter an exclusive club of Subaru Crew Automotive Authors (rsholland, juice, subearu, baressa62 ... sorry if I forgot somebody).
How about this: if you promise to write them a letter, I promise to renew my subscription to C&D? :-) :-) :-)

peterson10 · June 2002

I've made passing mention of this in a few previous posts, but now its gone from being a "curiosity" to a "blood-pressure raising annoyance": my 2002 L (5 speed) has, since day one, had a problem with backfiring. Its usually quite subtle, but unless the stereo is up full-blast you can't miss it. It only occurs during clutching, usually between 1st and 2nd, but can occur between other gears if I'm accelerating with gusto. Naturally, it is not reproducable "on-demand", so I haven't gotten the shop involved YET. The last thing I want is a lot of blind tinkering with my engine; causing bigger problems than the one I have now.

How many of you have the same problem? I'm wondering if a change in octane (I use 87, as recommended) or some fuel additive might help; but don't want to spend the summer chasing wild geese, so any advise would be welcomed. FWWI, I have this sense that its caused by fuel vapor combusing in the catalytic converter; that's my hunch anyway. Everything else is excellent: great power, good mileage, smooth acceleration (until "pop").
Thanks in advance for your insight,
YetAnotherDave

carmarshel · June 2002

We're soon to take ownership of our new 03 XS! Have never owned a Subaru before, or a vehicle with all-wheel drive. I'm looking forward to it. It took our local dealer a couple of weeks to locate a Forester with manual transmission, acceptable options and in a color that made everyone happy (long story). I'll try to not abandon Edmunds, and post my driving experiences as I break in this new car. Two options that we're still debating on whether to add or not are the rear differential protector, which I kind of see as preventative maintenance and the auto dimming mirror/compass. Any advice, input, recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

-Rod

kens · June 2002

Bear -- 40 ft is a big margin, but again, I attribute it to the difference in tires. The previous L came with fairly humble tires. Not that the S had great tires, but at least they were H rated Yokohamas.

Kate -- That's a great idea. C&D does have a "Letters to the Editor" section where readers have a chance to refute their findings.

Rod -- Excellent choice! 5-speed Foresters rule! I had a hard time locating mine back in 98, too. The rear diffy protector is nice, but probably not really necessary for 99% of us. Juice has one on his Forester and will probably share his views. As for the auto-diming mirror -- it's a nice feature. My buddy put one on his 00 Forester S and it works quite well. The unit is actually fron Donnelly and can be purchased on the aftermarket as well.

Ken

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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