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Please check out this youtube video. Help these Tibetan refugees if you can. The medical team will return to India again this year, and can use any contribution you care to send.
Thanks,
meron
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjdrhgowijU
I told them I thought it was the ignition switch, and to see Bulletin Number 04-08-45-005D, Ignition System - No Crank / No Start / DTC's B2960/B3033, dated March 15, 2006, covering Saturn ION models 2003-2006. They said if they do a diagnostic and the codes B2960/B3033 come up, this bulletin tells them it's the ignition switch. They ran the diagnostic, the codes came up, they replaced the switch, and I was on my way (although it did take 1.5 hours and cost $192). The car has started just fine for the last week now.
Not the cheapest solution, but easy and aggravation-ending, at least in my opinion. :shades:
A happier camper!
:shades:
I had to break down and have my ignition switch replaced last Thursday. I woke up Friday morning to go to work and the car wouldn't start! So I now have another appointment to bring it in this Thursday for them to try again. This is like a bad dream. I'll keep you posted on what happens.
mikeeyv1
However, a moot issue now, as the car was totalled last week. Sigh. Loved the Saturn...wonder if other years have the same issue.
Does anyone know?
I'm an electronic tech and know enough about cars to be dangerous. The wire not being thick enough for that circuit doesn't seem right unless there is some other serious problem in the steering wheel. After watching the UTube video I'd say the white wire is 18 or 20 awg. Plenty big enough to carry the current for that circuit.
Also the battery type, unless something other than a 12vdc battery in your car, cannot be too 'big". Car batteries are rated in cold cranking amps. That is the higher the number of CCA the longer the battery will last when under duress starting a car when it's real cold out. Back in the day cars used to have a generator and separate voltage regulator. Now they have alternators with the regulation circuitry built right in. That circuitry makes sure the alternator doesn't put out too high a voltage for the battery and the rest of the circuitry to handle.
I'd say that bertbaggins has more of an electrical/wiring problem than the security circuit that the white wire defeats. (Actually I'd say the white wire cutting is a work around for a key/key switch problem.) The issue is that most car mechanics aren't real good at troubleshooting complex electrical problems. Most will admit it, others let their testosterone get in the way and wont. Finding someone good at diagnosing car electrical problems is not easy.
BCM issues are separate issues. As are the blown fuses; this is a serious condition based in the wiring of the vehicle.
Someone here describes the loose foot on the small board where the white wire is attached and the resistor that is loose on that board. Resoldering it is a good solution, but not one everyone here can take on themselves. Cutting the white wire is doable, as berbbaggins has shown so well on youtube. Many have replaced the starting switch only to replace it again and again.
Choose the option you are comfortable with. The white wire on my daughter's Ion has been cut for over a year. It has started ever since.
meron
also i called the 866 number you listed and opened up a case with customer service, the lady said she hasnt heard of this issue. And when i told her about this thread and me looking on line and finding many different people with the same problem she basically said that online stuff is a crackpot and nobody knows what their talking about, that its a bunch of people that dont know what their doing. Also the CS rep called my local dealership who told her that the steering console and the key had been replaced on the car RIGHT before i bought it from this used car dealership, literally like 20 miles before i bought it. I'm thinking who ever had the car couldnt figure out what the problem is, and after dumping a few grand into it decided to get rid of it. So now i have this gem in my posession haha. Hopefully cutting the wire will do the trick because i dont feel like dumping money into it, only to find out later that didn't fix the problem like for some of the people in here. I have also emailed the person here posting about a class action against saturn regarding this. Cant belive saturn wont do a recall on this!
Agawamguy just checkin in. The last time my car didn't start was December 31, 2008. :mad:
On January 1, 2009 (post #176) I cut the white wire while the car was running and it's now almost April and my car has started every time.
Passlock is disabled!
Since this is still happening to me in warm weather, does this sound like the same issue? I think I still have some warranty time left on my car, so hopefully any repairs will be covered... I'm just worried that like others, this problem will start up again even after a "fix." I would use the white wire fix but I really don't want a check engine light on my dash all the time, and my wife is somewhat wary of the solution. Has there been any progress in dealer repairs that have led to permanent fixes, not just stopgaps?
Thanks!
My question is does this sound like that Passlock (white wire) issue? Or will the car do nothing when the Passlock problem happens?
Thanks in advance...
After living with the problem for many months (and allowing the extended warranty to expire in the meantime), she implored her Saturn dealer to "Fix it this time!"
He did so (it appears) by replacing the Ignition Switch [non-permissible content removed]'y (Part No. 10392423). This cost $34.06 for the part, plus $220.00 for labor -- which includes a $110 (approx) fee for "diagnosis."
The dealer returned the car, warning that if this did not fix the problem, they would next replace the BCM (Body Computer) for $665. The problem has not recurred in the 11 days since the repair; we continue to cross our fingers.
The dealer returned the "bad" part, so I dismantled it and snapped some photographs. I offer these for the perusal of fellow sufferers of this extremely annoying problem.
You can find these photos at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyingfoxone/sets/72157618298658054/
If anyone out there has had this done please let me know. Thanks.
www.autotoys.com/x/product.php?productid=8564
The GM Passlock system is fairly simple, especially when compared to other makes. However, if yours is goofing up, you won’t think it’s so simple.
Here’s how it works: When you first turn the key, the PCM provides power to the fuel pump, injectors, and ignition system. You can crank and start the engine. However, there’s a magnet built into the lock cylinder. As you rotate the key, the magnet passes over a Hall Effect sensor—a sensor that detects the presence of a magnetic force. The magnet produces a unique voltage when it passes over the sensor. The sensor sends this voltage signal to the Body Control Module where it is compared to a stored value. If the sent voltage doesn’t match the stored value, the PCM shuts down the fuel injectors for a minimum of 10 minutes and, well, you’re pretty screwed at that point. If you try to start the car again, you will see a blinking Security light. That’s your sign that the Passlock system has shut you down.
What goes wrong: GM vehicles experience a very high failure rate in the lock cylinder and lock housing mechanisms. Fortunately, they’re fairly inexpensive and easy to replace.
Testing the Passlock sytem: Remove the plastic cover shrouds from the steering column near the lock cylinder. Inside you will see the Passkey module surrounding the lock cylinder. It will have 3 wires coming out of it. Turn the key to the ON position and use a DIGITAL multimeter (Do NOT use an analog meter) to backprobe the probe the black and white wires. If you see 12 volts on the white wire and 0 volts on the black wire, you can proceed to the test for the Passkey module. If you do not see those voltage values, you have a wiring problem between the connector and the BCM.
Next, connect your voltmeter to the yellow wire. It should read 5 volts. Keep the probe connected and turn the key to the off position and back to the start position. The Passlock Data Voltage has a potential of 10 different values, ranging from .86 to 4.28 volts. The voltage should drop to a voltage level between those values and stay within .02 volts of the initial reading for at least one minute. Repeat the test several times—you must receive the same voltage for each test. If you do not, replace the lock cylinder and the Passkey housing.
To remove the lock cylinder, first disconnect the negative battery cable and allow the airbag to power down for 5-10 minutes. Slide the Passkey module off the cylinder housing. Insert the key and turn the lock cylinder to the start position. Place a 1/16” allen wrench into the hole on top of the lock module to release the steering column lock cylinder set pin. Then turn the lock cylinder to the RUN position and pull the lock cylinder out. Reverse the procedure to install.
After you replace the cylinder and Passkey module, you will have to conduct a relearn procedure for the BCM to learn the new voltage value. Here’s the procedure: Lock doors and unlock. Clear codes. Turn key and bump starter,
leave on for 10 minutes. After a few minutes the dash light will
go out. At that point, turn the key to the off position for 90 seconds to 3 minutes. Repeat this procedure 3 times for a total of 30 minutes and on the 4th try the car
will start.
Want more information about this repair? Click on eautorepair. This is the consumer version of the professional mechanic's online shop manual Mitchell On Demand. It contains exactly the same information the professional mechanics get. You can print out every service procedure, specification, component locations, wiring and vacuum diagram, TSB, and recall related to your vehicle.
When you turn the key in the ignition, it seems like it wants to start, but something is preventing it from turning over & getting gas or something. It's been sitting out front for several months now.
My son hasn't gotten around to having someone look at it so I thought I would. I wanted to go online before having it towed to the dealer so that I would be prepared & hopefully not easily duped into paying a large bill for something I didn't need done (it’s no longer under warranty). I also wanted to see if maybe it was something that my husband could fix himself. I then saw on this forum that a lot of people with Ions are having similar starting problems & not much help from the dealers. Although most of them seem to have problems with the ignition relating to cold weather. I live in Miami & we rarely see temperatures below 50.
I thought it might be a problem with the passlock, locking up the car so it won't start as an anti-theft deterrent. I went out & tried to start it & I noticed the yellow padlock over the car symbol came on, but it also went off shortly after I released the key. I assume it is supposed to. I read that a lot of people got around a similar situation by either installing a remote starter to the ignition or by cutting the white wire leading from the ignition to bypass this problem, although they said that the car had to be running when the wire is cut. I don’t think a remote starter would work on a manual transmission & would like to try the white wire fix, but my problem is how do you do that if the car won't start at all? I saw in one of the replies, someone had a link to a place that sold remote starters. They offered to sell online a way to temporarily start the car to repair it. I thought that I could do that & then cut the white wire, but my husband pointed out that it may not even work with a manual transmission. They don’t have a # to call & ask. Do any of you know of how to start it temporarily & if it would work on a manual car?
I tried calling the dealer's service department to see about taking it in & he started playing so many games, I guess because he thought I was a dumb "women" who wouldn't know any better. I really don't want to pay to have it towed there for service now!
Have any of you all had a similar problem in warm weather, some suggestions or advice? I'm hoping my husband, who is very capable will be able to take care of this problem. I've even fixed a few things in our vehicles myself. I did think to look at the fuses on the driver’s side of the center console, but the first one I pulled, happened to be the 15A BCM (PWR) fuse. It looked ok, so I replaced it & since it started to rain, I quit & tried to start it just to see if anything was different. When I went to start it, I mistakenly put my daughter’s Ion key in the ignition & it wouldn’t even turn (as would be expected). When I put the right key in, it turned & didn’t do anything this time, but make a clicking sound similar to a turn signal, but louder. I feel like I just took another step back & now may be worse off. Thanks in advance for any help you may have.