Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

eseibert1 · June 2002

Is it worth the upgrade from x to xs, in order to get the limited slip differential? Does anyone have any practical knowledge on this subject?
-eric

eps105 · June 2002

I've done a little more research on my own since my last posting. Here's a little more detail on the matter.

First, to clarify (for Juice, among others), the feature of doors locking when turning on the ignition and unlocking when you turn it off is a feature built into most, if not all, aftermarket security systems. While it doesn't seem to have anything to do with security, remember that the keyless entry system controls the door lock actuators, so it's literally a matter of software to make this feature available.

On my '99 Forester, the keyless entry/security was made by Code-Alarm, and I enabled a dip switch in the controller to make this work.

I have since found out that the newer Subaru systems (with the tear-shaped key fob) use ALPINE as the OEM. I went to their website at www.alpine1.com and found tons of technical documentation on the wiring diagrams of all of their systems. Almost every one has this feature.

The problem is, my Subaru service guy, who claims to have done a little research on this, says this feature is not available on the Subaru OEM systems.

What I like to think is that it just isn't documented or supported by Subaru. I know that from quantities of scale, it is more likely that Alpine supplies Subaru with a standard circuit board that one custom for Subaru, and it may in fact have the DIP switches.

So now, I am thinking about tinkering with it and having a look inside. My supplemental manual for the security system upgrade shows the security module BEHIND the glove compartment (next to the pollen filter) but the keyless entry module is still above the driver's left foot. So now I have to look in two places.

If I figure anything out, I'll be sure to let everyone know. Wish me luck to not screw up my 4 day-old car!!!

-Elliot

hypov · June 2002

Elliot-
I'm believing it is a feature of the power locking of the car. When I bought my '98 OB Limited, the door locks when the ignition is turned on. That was how I'd locked myself out the first few days of ownership. And, I don't have factory alarm installed - the aftermarket wasn't in either then.

-Dave

kajko · June 2002

Eric,

To me it's not worth the extra expense of getting the XS just for the LSD. I thought about this issue and have pretty much decided on the X. In the future i might add on a LSD from KAAZ (they make LSD's for the Impreza which should fit the Forester). I wonder if anyone has gone that way (aftermarket)...
-tom

ffsteve · June 2002

Personally I don't care for the feature. I guess I could live with it, as long as it behaved nicely, but I had one bad experience with them that has tainted my viewpoint.

I borrowed a Mercury Villager to pick up family at the airport. Being a hot day I unlocked the doors, and started up the engine to get the air-con running. On closing the driver door to go around back and open up the rear hatch, the doors locked! I heard the thunk of the locks as I walked to the hatch and my heart fell. Sure enough, I was locked out in the middle of the airport parking lot, 90 degrees out, and my relatives standing around wondering why I was pulling out my hair. It only took 30 minutes for AAA to arrive and get into the car, which by that time was wonderfully cool inside.

On returning the car to its owners, they said they knew of that "feature" but forgot to mention it when I borrowed the car. I suppose if I was familiar with the operation I wouldn't have made the error, but it seems so common to get out of a car with the engine running to do a simple errand.

I've rented cars, Fords I think, that would lock the doors when the transmission is shifted out of Park, I would think that would be more sensible.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Steve (been in the hot sun too long)

ffsteve · June 2002

Speaking about air conditioning...

I confirmed the operation of the automatic air conditioner on my Bean on the drive hoome last night. When the Intake/Recirc button is pressed to Recirc, the air conditioning level is still controlled by the thermostat. I fiddled with the temperature control after choosing Recirc, and the fan speed and coolness did vary automatically in response to raising or lowering the set point.

Also, the system does indeed default to Intake when the car is switched back on again after stopping.

I wasn't sure yesterday, just wanted to clarify.

Has anyone confirmed the same operation on the new Forester air conditioning?

Steve

eps105 · June 2002

Dave,

You're right. I've been using the term "security system" too loosely. It is, in fact, the keyless entry module that controls the door locks.

eps105 · June 2002

Steve,

Sorry that happened to you. A properly programmed system (like my Chapman in my '99 Forester) will not lock the doors if any door is still ajar. In other words, if I turned the car on while my wife was still getting in, the doors stayed unlocked and I had to lock them manually.

Sounds like you were the victim of poor design!

Elliot

eps105 · June 2002

For those of you interested, I called my dealer back and pressed him to tell me if he KNEW FOR SURE that the auto-locks could not be enabled, or if he simply hadn't heard of it, and he said the latter. So I asked him if he could get the wiring diagrams and fax them to me, but he said that Subaru had never provided them with a wiring diagram for the Alpine systems, only the Code-Alarms.

He suggested I call Alpine directly. When I did, they told me they don't have information for OEM systems, and I should call Subaru customer service directly at 1-800-SUBARU3.

So I did, and the Subaru customer service agent was very polite and took down my information and said she'd e-mail technical services and get back to me with an answer! She actually seemed to know what I was talking about, too, so there's still hope!

Here's an idea - if everyone reading this calls their Subaru dealer's service department, someone is bound to know the answer! Just get the wiring diagram for the Alpine keyless entry module listing the optional settings for the main circuit board and we'll be in business!

Thanks!
-Elliot

eps105 · June 2002

I did in fact confirm this morning that when you press any control on the Auto Climate Control in the 2003 Forester (specifically recirc) it DOES TURN OFF the Auto mode and put it into manual mode.

lakepop · June 2002

OOps got sidetracked with the "new" format.

I'm now back in gee with the Suby crew stuff!!

bsvoller · June 2002

Sorry that happened to you, like just about everything, it has its upsides and downsides...

My wife likes it as a security feature, especially when she walks across a parking lot alone at night and gets in the car. I think it's pretty clear that the advantages are more in her head than anywhere else, but peace of mind is worth something to her and to me...

It does seem more common on aftermarket systems than OEM ones. Seems to be a marketing thing more than anything else...

ateixeira · June 2002

I'd get that auto tranny flushed. You don't want burnt-smelling fluid in there for long.

The rear diffy protector is cheap and offers piece of mind to me. The bike rack only holds two, but go after market if you want 3 or 4. The OE hitch has a 1.25" receiver. You could get an aftermarket hitch with a 2" receiver, for a more universal fit.

An aftermarket LSD costs about $900, FWIW. Plus installation.

-juice

ducktapeguy · June 2002

paisan,
thanks for the reassurance. I've been paying more attention to the shifting now, but it seems okay.

I drained some of the fluid last night, and I plan on getting the whole transmission flushed and the filter changed this weekend. I just called the dealership, they said they don't do tranmsission flushes, only filter changes because they don't have a machine to force the fluid out. I was going to get at least the filter changed, but they were charging $41 bucks just for the part alone. Does anyone know where to buy subaru parts? There used to be that one place that had good prices i think it was called qsubaru or something, but I think they've gone out of business. I've been looking online, but all I find are performance accessories and oil filters, no transmission filters. And none of the local stores in my area carry subaru parts, not even for some of the older models that I thought might have the same filter. Oh yeah, when I called the dealership to ask them, they said the transmission filter didn't really need to be changed and was wondering why i wanted one. I guess that would've been good news if I didn't need one.

and to add my 2 cents. I'd get the rear diff protector. I wasn't sure how useful it would be, but after looking at some of the scratches i have on mine, I feel a lot better knowing it's not the diff taking all that abuse. It's pretty cheap and makes me feel a lot more secure.

nygreg · June 2002

Try sending an e-mail to "parts@libertysubaru.com". Russ is the parts manager and I just ordered and received oil filters and washers from them. I paid $4 per filter (when buying a case) when my locals wanted $8.50. Very happy with the service.

My dealer told me that Subaru states that the tranny filter does not need changing. However, he also stated that he personally believes at some point they will start recommending a change. Changing it just makes sense to me especially if it is dented.

Diffy protector is worth the $40, if even for POM.

Greg

paisan · June 2002

Is about right. They aren't like an oil filter.

Also a drain and fill is what I did on my XT6. So far so good.

-mike

conroe · June 2002

I'm not done with the purchase process yet, but I did get the various dealers' bids back from the CarBargains.org service.

The way the service works is they ask the dealers to quote prices based on an amount or a percentage above or below invoice or MSRP. They may also include stated dealer add ons/fees, which in this area is usually limited to the $50 document fee allowed by Texas law. If the quote is based on invoice, they may also include a stated advertising association fee (always $150 for Houston area). The deal is, they make the quote based on the general vehicle (i.e., 2003 Forester XS), and all options are priced at invoice.

They came back with quotes from 7 dealers in Texas (they guarantee at least 5 bids): 4 in Houston area, 2 in Austin, 1 in San Antonio. Here's the various quotes:

MSRP minus $600 + $295 Protection Package [no, I won't be visiting that Austin dealer]
MSRP minus $1000
Invoice plus $500
Invoice plus $500
Invoice plus $200 + $75 VIN etch
Invoice plus $200
Invoice plus $100

All the bids also had the $50 doc fee and all the bids from invoice also had the $150 ad assoc. fee. The quotes also includes costs for additional fees to locate and trade for a vehicle not in stock, ranging from $150 within 100 miles (yeah, from the same dealer with the protection package), with most being $0 within 100 miles.

I'm going through the low-quoting Houston dealer to get an XS premium with leather. It's working fairly smoothly, though they did try to incredibly low-ball me on my trade-in. I have a friend who is buying the car from me for a fair price, so ultimately it is no big deal. (CarMax also appraised it/offered to buy fairly.) Still, getting low-balled on the trade-in is one of those things that you have to worry about even when you have a guaranteed low price on the new car.

cschaaf · June 2002

I have an 02 Forester with less than 8000 miles on it and the breaks have started to squeal. I'm car ignorant so please bear with me.

We took it in for service about a month ago and the dealer said that I must have washed the grease off of the breaks. I've never washed anything too well in my life... He says they re-greased them and the squealing stopped.

It's back now. It only lasts for about the first 10 - 15 breaks, after that no squealing. I called back to the dealer and now he is saying that it is normal for Subaru breaks to squeal because they use harder breaks than other cars.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

casecom2 · June 2002

Just test drove an 03 XS today (at Luther Subaru in White Bear/Vadnais Heights MN). Overall I really liked it.

The cabin and driving position were comfortable. The vinyl/cloth seats (as opposed to all cloth) didn't bother me as much as they did on the CR-V, where they felt cheap. One oddity: I felt like the steering wheel was like a half-inch off the center line of the seat, to the right. Maybe that was just how I was sitting, though.

No complaints as far as handling and braking. Was surprised at how little body roll there is when cornering. Back seats were a little tight but OK.

I found the AT gate shifter odd, although I'm sure it's fine once you get used to it.

Cargo area: I think there's more room in there than it appears from the outside. The seat back didn't quite fold down flat, although it might squish down some if you put something heavy on it. Had to scooch up the front passenger seat to be able to flip down the back seat without removing the head rest.

My only major complaint: acceleration. I got off the line quick enough, but from, oh, say from 15 to 40 mph I really felt like I was lacking oomph. This is kind of an issue for me as I live in an area where the 40-year-old freeways are outdated from an engineering point of view -- and that means extremely short acceleration lanes (on-ramps). It *seemed* more sluggish than my 96 Civic, although 0-60 I'd bet the Forester is actually faster.

But overall, I like it. I've pretty much ruled out the CR-V, so my top contenders are the Forester and Passat wagon, which I hope to try out tomorrow.

One more thing: they had seven or eight 02 L's still on the lot, with the stickers marked down by about $2,000. They're really trying to push the 02s -- the 02s were all in the front lot, the 03s all out back.

(One one more thing: The salesman said there are no plans for a 6-cyl. in the Forester, but he said there is a turbo coming for 04.)

rsholland · June 2002

Once those '02s are sold, you will start seeing better deals on the '03s.

Forester vs. Passat? Most people compare the larger Legacy/Outback to the Passat. I'd be more inclined to compare the Forester to the Jetta wagon, even though the Jetta isn't available in AWD.

Bob

jbur · June 2002

I am going to be purchasing a 2003 Forester X in the near future. I have found out that neither of the stock receivers available are able to play CD-R or MP3 CD's. Therefore I am considering replacing the stock receiver with an after market unit. Has anyone replaced a receiver and did you encounter any difficulties? I assume that a double-DIN sized unit will fit because of the storage bin below the radio. Also, are the connectors used standard? Any comments will be appreciated.

crashton6 · June 2002

My 2000 Forester does play CD-R's. It doesn't play MP3's though.

hypov · June 2002

My '98 Outback unit plays CD-R, and the 2002 WRX units plays them too (it's now in my '98 OB).
Of course, no MP3

-Dave

rsunico · June 2002

New Jersey should be added to the list. Subes everywhere you look (a la Vermont). I drove from Atlanta to New Orleans 3 weeks ago and I could count the number of Subes on the highway. When I got back to NJ it hit me.. Subes, BMWs, Volvos, Saab, MBZ... I was home!

casecom2 · June 2002

You're right, and here is my logic (such as it is): I like the Forester better than the Jetta wagon, and the Passat wagon better than the Outback. Actually, I'm not much of an off-roader so I'd probably buy a regular Legacy wagon before an Outback.

With the Passat you benefit from the extra length, but on the other hand living in the city I consider the Forester's small size a plus, as well as of course Subaru's AWD. (If I bought a Passat it would not be a 4Motion model.)

Alas there is no "Forester vs. Passat wagon" thread

stever · June 2002

Well, there used to be a "thread":

Subaru Forrester or VW Passat (probably started by a VW owner, since they spelled the Soob wrong).

I suppose you could ask Revka to unfreeze it, or just settle for the VW Passat vs Subaru Wagons discussion (or just continue in here - what the heck!).

Steve
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casecom2 · June 2002

Thanks Steve! I just might ask Revka to do that after my Passat test-drive tomorrow.

ateixeira · June 2002

Chris: it might be some surface rust getting scraped off at first. If it goes away after a couple of uses, it should be OK.

Casey: can you ask him to reserve one of those turbos for me? :-)

My wife's 6CD player, which came from a WRX but is likely the same, does indeed play CD-Rs. In fact, that's ALL we play. I don't remember the last CD I paid for.

It is double-din, and fits any newer Subaru. You lose one storage compartment below it (Legacys have two, so you still end up with one, Forester have only one so it's gone).

The harness plugs right in, piece of cake. Then the antennae wire. Took me a couple of hours because I had to run to buy some tools (long and stubby phillips).

I bought a 6CD yesterday and will likely install it this weekend. Installed one in my wife's last week. Strongly recommended. They go for about $150+ on i-Club and eBay.

Passat? You will either pay more or get less content. They are nice, though.

-juice

kate5000 · June 2002

In 1993 we bought brand new Subaru Loayle wagon that exhibited the same acceleration problem: fine 0-15, then feel "stuck" between 15-45 then fine again. Funny, our Loyale'92 never had such a problem. Salesman told us our new car just needs to break in. But acceleration remained a problem until we sold that car with 100K mi on it. Looking back, we probably should have pushed for repair under drive train warranty. It was probably a transmission problem but dealers denied it.

My advice: test-drive a few different Foresters on the lot, and I bet you'll find one w/o acceleration problem.

maverick1017 · June 2002

as far as I know there are no cdr/mp3 double din receivers on the market right now. all such receivers are single din. No add-on cdr/mp3 system for OEM receivers either. So, if you wouldn't lose any dins with an install.

you will need an adapter for the factory connectors. 03 Forester's might still be too new for any after market manufacture to supply adapters for, but check around I could be wrong. Talk to the folks at Crutchfield, they should be able to help you out and answer most of your questions. If you order thru them, they send you all the part (wires, adapters, screws, etc)you need with the receiver at no additional charge.

My 98 install was a cinch, although the removable face plate can't be removed because of the way the center console's surrounds are. a minor inconvenience. I am sure you probably wouldn't have that problem by the way the new center console looks.

Good luck

Mike

cork2win · June 2002

I hope someone answers your question soon, because I'm having a similar situation. got my 99 forester from the lot on saturday, told them I wanted the brakes checked because they squeal. they told me they already checked them, and they were fine. I noticed yesterday that not only do they squeal when i press them, but they squeal when i'm driving straight!! how can that be?!?!?

rmb48 · June 2002

A dealer I'm negotiating with for a new 2002 L automatic faxed me a copy of his invoice. This came in the form of a typewritten page, no letterhead, just a typed line for Subaru of New England with a column for Dealer Cost and one for Suggested List. The Dealer Cost came in at $19885 plus $25 Port Fee and a handwritten note from my salesman noting a deduction of $500 for rebate and addition of $95 for doc fee. $19505 total (including a cd player)

I am a little surprised that the invoice doesn't look more official, but what do I know? Are these prices in line with what's going on out there for new 2002s?

ateixeira · June 2002

Just a thought, but check for pebbles/debris stuck in those brakes, wedged in somewhere.

I kind of doubt that's an official invoice, but I'll let others chime in. The price sounds fair, though.

-juice

paisan · June 2002

That looks pretty right to me. They usually look like a computer printout (dot matrix) when you seem em in person.

Especially if it's the Subaru Distributor for New England, they are notorious for slightl higher prices than invoice elsewhere.

-mike

tidester · June 2002

I am a little surprised that the invoice doesn't look more official, but what do I know?

Does it have his signature on it?

tidester
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vifam · June 2002

ducktapeguy,

I haven't gone to one yet (my 02 Forester only has 1400 miles), but I read many people in i-club.com So Cal forum praise Suby Specialties in Monrovia (http://www.subyspecialties.com/). You might want to read more comments before you go.
Hope this help

-Jason

ducktapeguy · June 2002

thanks vifam,
made an appointment with them next week. I looked on i-club for that info but couldn't find it. All I found was the dealer's forum and parts forum, but no mechanics forum.

only 1400 miles? that's what I put on in 10 days. Where'd you buy it from?

rsunico · June 2002

Libery Subaru a month ago had a few 2002 Forester L's leftover. They were asking 18990 for a 5 speed. Last year I bought my 2001 leftover for the same price and when I picked up my car 3 days later they lowered the price on the car next to it to 18600. I think they are sold out of 2002 but I do know Ray Kolb Subaru in Orangetown, NY has several 2002's left (I saw them a few days ago). Worse comes to worse you can get a quote from Kolb and show it to your local dealer to see if they will match.

alsana1 · June 2002

Just bought a 2003 XS Premium (AT) in Java Black Pearl. Picked it up on Monday. First time subie owner! Didn't get the leather. Found the premium cloth seats to be quite nice. Great to have heated seats...and wow, what a big moonroof! So far, very pleased, but only have 48 kilometres on it. Looking forward to racking up the miles on my new baby.

Bought at Marino's Fine Cars in Toronto (ask for Pedro). Got $2,034 cdn off msrp, plus dealer threw in tinted windows (35% tint) and wheel locks. All in all, not a bad deal, I think, and truly a great vehicle to drive.

Also test-drove the 2002 CR-V before buying the Forester. Really wanted to like the CR-V (loyal Honda owner for decades). It was okay, but not as enjoyable as the Forester. Great rear seat accomodations in the cr-v, and I did like the looks of the Honda a little better (Canadian EX-L with leather and heated seats, colored bumpers, colored hard-shell spare cover). What I didn't like on the Honda were the small, almost donut-like 15" wheels, and outrageous dealer prices on simple accessories like fog lights, roof racks, tonneau cover, cigarette lighter and ashtray (all standard on the Forester XS). The deal-breaker, however, was the poor rear visibility in the cr-v, poor front-seat leg and toe room, and my biggest gripe: lack of fun (handling) in the test-drive. Could have gotten $1500 cdn off msrp on the honda, but not enough to sway purchase in its favor as against the Forester.

My only complaint on the Forester: no manual height and lumbar adjustment for front passenger seat. Nothwithstanding, front passenger seat is comfortable and accomodating, though the best seat still remains that which is behind the steering wheel. VROOM VROOM!

Hats off to the fine folks at Edmunds (Town Hall) who have been extremely helpful in my research of compact suv's. I look forward to many, many years of fine motoring in my new Subaru, as well as future discussions and discourses in the hallowed halls of this, the Subaru Community.

-alan

eseibert1 · June 2002

I am trying to decide between the X and XS models, and am mostly concerned about the need for limited slip rear and the 4-wheel disc brakes. Does anyone have any practical knowledge on the subject?
Thanks, Eric

vifam · June 2002

ducktapeguy,

You are right, there is no forum for mechanics. I read about it in "Southern California i-Club Forum -- SCIC".

My daily drive to work is about 10 miles round trip. Maybe I should find a job that is far away so I can spend more time with my Forester.

I bought mine from CarsDirect and picked up from Irvine Subaru.

- Jason

casecom2 · June 2002

kate5000: Thanks for the interesting info. I will definitely take another test-drive before my final decision.

By the way, if anyone's interested in the results of my little Forester/Passat "comparo," I posted it here:

casecom2 "Subaru Forester or VW Passat Wagon" Jun 27, 2002 3:07am

garryc1 · June 2002

That price looks a bit steep to me, although I'm not familiar with any "premiums" you may have to deal with in the NE area. Here in Cleveland metro, '02 L's are being advertised at $18,500 - $18,900 and there are PLENTY to be had at the five or so dealerships. I entertained the idea of an '02 S (which are also being offered at great savings), but instead went with an '03 X. Managed to snag an automatic with a few doo-dads (splash guards, etc.) out the door - before taxes, of course - for $20,290. Shop around...heck, go out of state if you have to! There's deals to be had out there!

eps105 · June 2002

For those of you complaining of squealing brakes, I too had intermittent noisy brakes on my '99 Forester. I mentioned it a few times to my Subaru dealer when I got my oil changed, and every time they said nothing was wrong, but the squeaks mysteriously went away for 500 or so miles after each oil change. I think there is some kind of spray they use to temporarily treat squeaky brakes, but I never confirmed that.

As it happens, a friend of our family is a (trusted) auto mechanic. I've asked him about this as well. His response was consistent with the response from all of the Subaru mechanics I've ever asked: Squeaky brakes can very much be considered "normal." Non-asbestos brakes tend to be harder, and Subaru's OEM brakes are about as hard as they get, and the noise is simply a fact of life.

One thing I can attest about them being hard: I got 50,000 miles out of my front brake pads before replacing them, and my dealer said I could still probably squeak out (no pun intended) another 5,000.

One alternative: my dealer had offered to put on softer aftermarket brakes instead of the Subaru OEM's when I had them replaced, but they would have cost more and not lasted as long.

So far, on my 2003 XS, the brakes are silent as can be.

-Elliot

stever · June 2002

Can some folks weigh in here?

cdskurat "Forester vs. Outback?" Jun 27, 2002 1:55am

Steve
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casecom2 · June 2002

Looking at Consumer Reports' tire ratings from late last year, I saw one of the tires they looked at was the Yokohama Geolandar HT. They rated it an excellent tire, with excellent wet braking and resistance to hydroplaning.

However -- and this is a big however -- they rated it "poor" on snow. They called the Geolandar "a worthy choice where winters are mild." That would be a concern here in Minnesota.

These are the same tires that come on the Forester, are they not? Anyone have any firsthand experience with these tires in the snow?

ateixeira · June 2002

Congrats Alan. They took out the lumbar support adjustment? My 1998 has it.

Eric: I'm happy without either of those, but if you can afford it and say, you are a professional ski instructor, I'd spring for them. Especially 'cause you get the heated seats, too.

I believe that wasn't the same tire that goes on the Forester. For 2003, they use yet another tire.

-juice

dcab · June 2002

The 03 Forester tires have a longer treadwear warranty than the 02 tires, but have a traction rating of "B". Living in Central New York, where we got 192 inches of snow winter before last, we are going to be putting snow tires on our new 03.

krzycho · June 2002

Any opinions on the product sold here?

http://www.tornadofuelsaver.com - Chris

stever · June 2002

imho, it's spelled with a capital "B" :-)

While waiting for a less rabid opinion, you may want to look over these older messages:

The accessories to improve mileage and extend engine life

Tornado Fuel Saver...Hype?!?!?

And the FTC has a link of interest:

Gas-Saving Products: Facts or Fuelishness?

Steve
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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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