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Comments
If there is anyone with knowledge of how to remedy the stalling issue, please please please let me know. Thank you.
Thank you for the response, I was just reading your post and will definitely give it a try.
Anyone else with a Suburban that is stalling for no apparent reason, and then starts up just fine a few minutes later, try this!!! There are special cleaners you can buy, but I just used a Q-tip and a dab of rubbing alcohol.
We're sorry for these ongoing concerns you have with your Suburban. If you wanted for us to look into this further with you, please contact us at socialmedia@gm.com (include your name and contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN and mileage, the name of your dealership, and a brief summary of the situation).
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Sarah, GM Customer Service
This is unbelievable. I have never had a vehicle basically become useless after 70,000 miles. Not loving GM right now.
The local GMC dealer gave me a similar engine diagnosis about 5 years ago for the 5.3L V-8 in my Suburban. The service manager told me that they suspected a "grooved camsahft" as the cause for a rough idle and a ticking sound which became louder above 2000 rpm. The potential cost had me thinking that I would be agreeing to writing a blank check. I thanked them for their opinion by paying for the hour of labor diagnostic time, and I drove the truck out of their service area.
Yes, I did quite a bit more investigation into the possible source of the problem. The rough idle did set a code in the system, and the service engine light (known as the MIL or Malfunction Indicator Lamp) has been on pretty much ever since. The code indicates a consistent misfire on cylinder # 5. I personally removed both valve covers and took some measurements with a dial indicator for cam lift on several cylinders. Rotating the engine by hand with the spark plugs removed, I was able to see a reduced lift on the #5 intake valve. My belief is that there is a bad lobe on the camshaft or a bad roller lifter, or both, in that position.
So, what did I do about it? Nothing. The truck was out of warranty at 58K miles. A repair would be, as you found out, VERY expensive. So, I ignored the rough idle, and continued maintenance as I had before, (Synthetic oil and filter every 3-4K miles). I keep a log for fuel and maintenance in every vehicle I own. There appeared to be no degradation in the fuel economy. In fact, on the home leg of a trip a little more than a year ago, for one tank of gas I got just a shade below 18mpg, the highest figure I have ever gotten in my years of ownership. With the defective cam/lifter, I drove the Suburban on many trips halfway across the country, sometimes towing a 14 ft single axle enclosed trailer, weighing about 2300 lbs.
No internal engine problems occurred, until something I believe is unrelated cropped up this past August. In the interim, I added 60K miles with no reduction in performance. Since I can't hear your motor run, or drive your Tahoe, I can't say how similar your situation might be. What I will say is this: IF I had allowed the dealership to do thousands of dollars of work on my Suburban's engine, there is no way it would have generally performed any better for the next sixty thousand miles. Did I just get lucky for those years? I don't think so... I made an informed decision. BTW, I do have to say this: A rough idling engine will probably not pass a smog inspection, if one is required in your state. A check of my Suburban's emissions at idle early in my effort to diagnose the problem showed a high level of unburned hydrocarbons. At driving rpm, the emissions returned to a normal level.
Yes, the rough idle bothered me. I often would slip the gear selector into neutral if I was sitting at a long light, just so I would not have to feel the chugging. But I am glad I saved the money. Now I am faced with the possibility of replacing the motor altogether. The latest issue appears to be terminal. I'd be angry If I were in your shoes, I know I was when I was told pretty much what you got from your dealership. If your motor is really that bad, rather than have cam, lifter and cylinder head work done on it, I'd source a good used motor. There is one on eBay right now in Oklahoma for $1365 out of an '08 Tahoe with similar miles. You might be able to get it delivered and installed by a local mechanic for an additional $12-1400, and you'd still be ahead.
Good Luck!
2008 Suburban that has had a rough idle since 15k miles, now has 48. It will run rough when it sits in gear at a red stop or just in park, the Suburban shakes and drive me nuts. No lack of power with normal driving just when it is sitting. Taken it to the dealer multiple times and the first time the technician says "well it's a big engine and they vibrate." That's bull becuase I have a 95 Silverado that purrs like a kitten and runs smoother than my 08. Since it was under warranty they replace the motor mounts (not sure why) of course the issue did not go away. Had it in again and told them they need to find out what is wrong, they cleaned the throttle body. They said it was filthy and then said it runs so much better now come and get it! Well it ran exactly the same and when I went back again they told me to put a injector cleaner in the gas tank. That didn't do anything! Any ideas of what I could do to convince the dealer to actually fix the issue?
Thanks
Ryan
Sorry to hear that you're having trouble getting the rough idle concern resolved. If you would like for us to follow up on this with the dealership, please contact us via email at socialmedia@gm.com (include your name, contact information, the last 8 digits of your VIN, and the name of your dealership).
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Here's what I suggest before your warranty runs out. 1.) Tell the dealer you want a master mechanic assigned to your vehicle and have them run an oil consumption test and check the AMF lifters. That said, even after the lifters were replaced and the engine cleaned, we continued to have problems. 2.) Document everything, file a complaint with the NHTSA (if they get enough, they may have to have GM recall), and contact GM to open a case. 3.) Your master mechanic can help to make the difference if they truly believe you have an issue. GM customer service originally told us that they couldn't do anything else but it was our mechanic who eventually submitted the request for a new engine after our car had been in the shop 50+ days over the course of 2 years. Here's the bulletin information:
#10-06-01-007: Active Fuel Management (AFM) Engine, Valve Lifter Tick Noise at Start Up When Engine Has Been Off for 2 Hours or More (Evaluate Noise and/or Replace Valve Lifters) - (Aug 13, 2010)
Subject: Active Fuel Management (AFM) Engine, Valve Lifter Tick Noise at Start Up When Engine Has Been Off for 2 Hours or More (Evaluate Noise and/or Replace Valve Lifters)
Models: 2007 Buick Rainier
2009 Buick LaCrosse Super, Allure Super (Canada Only)
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Built Prior to April 1, 2006 with 6.2L Engine RPO L92 (These engines were built with AFM Hardware but the AFM system was disabled)
2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2007-2009 Chevrolet Impala
2007-2010 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, TrailBlazer
2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS
2007-2010 GMC Envoy, Sierra, Yukon
2007-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix
2008-2009 Pontiac G8
2007-2009 Saab 9-7X
Equipped with AFM (Active Fuel Management) V8 Engine (RPOs L76, L94, L99, LC9, LFA, LH6, LMG, LS4, LY5)
Attention: This bulletin only applies to the AFM V8 engines listed above. It DOES NOT apply to Non-AFM Engines. If you are dealing with a Non-AFM engine that is experiencing a similar noise, please refer to Engine Mechanical > Diagnostic Information and Procedures > Symptoms in SI.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Condition
Some customers may comment on an engine valve lifter tick noise that occurs after the engine has been shut off for at least two hours. The tick noise may last from two seconds to ten minutes.
Cause
This condition may be caused by any of the following:
• Aerated oil in the valve lifter body, resulting in the valve lifter being unable to purge the air quickly.
• A low engine oil level or incorrect oil viscosity.
• Dirty or contaminated oil.
• A low internal valve lifter oil reservoir level.
• Debris in the valve lifter.
• A high valve lifter leak down rate.
Correction
If the SI diagnostics do not isolate the cause of this valve lifter tick noise and normal oil pressure is noted during the concern, perform the following steps:
Inspect the engine oil condition and level. Refer to Owner Manual > Service and Appearance Care > Checking Things Under the Hood > Description and Operation > Engine Oil in SI.
⇒ If the engine oil is more than one quart low, an incorrect oil viscosity is being used or if poor quality/contamination is observed, change the oil and filter.
Note: Allow at least a two hour soak time between engine OFF and start up when evaluating the tick noise.
Start the engine and evaluate the valve lifter tick noise.
⇒ If the valve lifter tick noise is still present, replace all 16 valve lifters. Refer to Valve Lifter Replacement in SI.
Parts Information
Note: A V8 AFM engine requires 8 AFM lifters and 8 non-AFM lifters for a total of 16 lifters.
Part Number
Description
Qty
12576400
Non AFM Hydraulic Valve Lifter
8
12632143
AFM Hydraulic Valve Lifter
8
Warranty Information (excluding Saab U.S. Models)
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
J0627
Valve Lifter Replacement - Both Sides
Use Published Labor Operation Time
Warranty Information (Saab U.S. Models)
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Saab Labor Operation
Description
Failed Object
Fault/Reason Code
Location Code
Warranty Type
Repair/Action Code
STM Labor Time
21421-12
Replace part, Depressor
21421
40
5
1
01 (Replace)
Use Published STM Labor Operation Time
We have had it to the dealer"s five times and still no change. After it sits for a while, it will run normal again for sometimes days but sometimes only minutes. The dealer said it was giving numerous codes and we replaced some electronic cables, etc. This did not fix the problems.
The last 2 times, after the car was at the dealers for a couple of days, the problem resolved and they released it. However, the same problems start again once the car is driven for sometime.
It clearly is not safe to drive and certainly unreliable. I have contacted GM but they are no help, Guess I have a lemon and will address that in a Court case.
Have you gotten in contact with our Customer Assistance Center already on this? We're sorry that this concern has interrupted your day to day schedule a few times!
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Thanks
Jay
Sarah, GM Customer Service
First it is best to understand that fuel tanks in most vehicles are shaped more like irregular covered skillets or rectangular sauce pans than a Big Gulp cup. The latter is smaller at the bottom than the top in part so that it can be more completely emptied via a straw, and the overall "footprint" is also very small when compared to the cookware. Even if tipped a fair amount to one side, very little liquid will remain if the straw reaches the bottom. Not so with the pans. A LOT of liquid would not be accessible unless the straw happened to be on the low side of the tilted pan.
And so it is with fuel pickups inside of tanks. In the early days of automobiles, the gas might have been drawn from what resembled a drain, and virtually all of it could be emptied out. Modern cars have the fuel pump inside the tank for several very important reasons, and they are pretty universally inserted through and suspended from an opening in the top of it. Most fuel pickups are attached to the pump and have a filter at the inlet to keep out larger debris.
Visualizing that type of system, it should be easy to understand that all of the fuel inside the tank cannot be accessed. Add in manufacturing tolerances in the tank and the length of the pump assembly to put the pickup even further from the bottom, and the inaccessible amount grows. Then add in a slope, such as a crowned or hilly road, or an inclined driveway, and there might just be a LOT of gas which cannot be drawn into the pump in certain circumstances.
(As a side note, many competition vehicle fuel tanks incorporate a flexible and weighted pickup which follows the fuel according to lateral forces during racing. That way the pickup can get to virtually all of the fuel, as long as the car is being driven hard. A "caution" lap might save fuel consumption, but not get the pickup to where the fuel is. Such devices are not practical for street cars, where the forces are so much lower, and long-term all-weather reliability is essential.)
The senders for fuel level are virtually all attached to the pumps. They are made up of three basic components: Float, arm, and sensor/sender. Roughly, it looks like the float in a standard toilet tank, on a smaller scale. While the gauges in the dash from vehicle to (same type) vehicle might be very uniform in how they process data from the sender, the electrical signals sent can be substantially different, even between cars nose to tail on the assembly line. Tiny variances in the buoyancy of the float, or the shape of the arm, or how it attaches to the electrical component can show up as notably dissimilar indications at the dash board.
Among the cars I have owned in 4 1/2 decades of driving, the fuel gauges all behaved differently. On my Suburban, after I changed the pump/pickup/sender assembly, the reading at the gauge did not display in the same way. I was not surprised by that. One car might stay on the full mark for nearly a hundred miles, then slide quickly to the half mark over the next 40. Another could start dropping within the first 15 miles, and go down gradually, but seem to accelerate when the needle approached the 1/4 mark. Two identical cars might appear to have gauges which operate the same, or they might work a bit differently. Some fuel level indicators may be Very accurate, in direct correlation to the amount in the tank. Certainly, that is the engineered/designed goal. But of all of the systems in cars, it is likely the least consistent.
So, back to the "miles left" readout on the dash.... That figure is a computation, based on historical calculated fuel economy stored in the car's computer, miles traveled since fill up (reset), and reading from the sender. After slogging through the verbosity above, it should be obvious to readers that such systems cannot be perfect, and may in fact have notable variances, without being truly defective. Circumstances might have one car out cold and stalled with 50 miles still shown to be available, while another car might keep going 20 or 30 miles past the zero point. It is the nature of such systems at this point in time. The possibility of a car sucking only fumes from the tank at exactly the point when the display goes from 1 to 0 is remote indeed.
What it comes down to is that drivers have to be familiar with their cars. Everyone should know the gallons capacity their fuel tank. If the gauge is reading no lower than 1/8, but it takes 28 gallons to fill up out of a total volume of 30, then it should not be run that low. Certainly, if the same reading occurs and only 22 gallons will fit, then there appears to be a reasonable indication that the needle could sit on"empty" for a while before the supply actually got near that point.
Motorists should also be reasonably sure what their vehicle gets for fuel economy week in and out for normal driving days. (vacations, and trips in general will be higher). That figure is best derived by using the trip odometer to keep track of miles between fill-ups, and dividing distance traveled by gallons consumed to get MPG. The "actual" usage might differ by several points from the computer calculated figure shown as part of the display. If someone's Yukon Denali (26 gallon tank) gets 14 MPG average to and from work, etc., then they should realize that anything beyond 300 or 310 miles since filling could be skating on thin ice, no matter what any gauge or display indicates.
I hope this does not come across as a rant...
I know that alanrs gave a very in-depth description of accessible fuel - aside from the vehicle being out of gas, how is everything operating? I'm wondering if a fuel level sensor is having troubles.
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Sarah, GM Customer Service
I am the father of 5 daughters, and my wife and I need our Suburban. We live in rural Eastern Washington, and get a fair amount of snow, and no other vehicle fits the bill for our transportation requirements.
Soon after the lifter failure, we began having oil consumption problems. Long story short, at 94k miles in August of 2012 (after dozens of trips to the shop), they replaced the rings and pistons. At that point in time, I voiced my concern that this engine had been torn down and rebuilt twice, and I was worried about future engine failures. I was reassured by the dealer that anything that happened would be covered under warranty since the motor had just been rebuilt. We purchased a $2k minivan to do the run-around miles in, and drove the Suburban only when necessary.
Now, on 22 December 2012, with 106k miles on the odometer, the AFM lifter issue is back. This time, when the lifter failed, it "shattered" (according to the dealership), and cannot be removed from the lifter bore. Solution? I need to buy a new engine.
I have been dealing with my dealership (who has been helpful and supportive), but they told me that they cannot fix this, it needs to be handled by GM Customer Service.
The case was elevated on 9 January. I was able to talk with my district representative on 10 January, and he promised to call me on 11 January after he researched my case.
After 15 attempts by me to contact my representative, zero returned calls from GM, I found out today that GM is claiming there is no known problem with the AFM lifters, and stated that I have never had an issue with these lifters in the past, so they will not do anything. I was also told that there is no one I can speak with above my district representative, but that his supervisor would listen to me complain if I wanted, once he got out of his all day meeting.
I don't expect his supervisor to call back, since the rep couldn't even return my phone calls over 12 days.
I have been a Chevrolet customer for many years, have owned nothing but Chevrolet trucks and SUVs in those years, as they met my large family's needs. My entire family (siblings, parents, etc) owns Chevrolet trucks and SUVs, and all of us are beside ourselves with the lack of support and service on a known issue with defective parts.
I hope someone gets some customer service, because obviously, my family is not.
Please send us either your Service Request number (71-**********) or the last 8 digits of your VIN as well as a brief recap of the situation. We would be happy to check into this further.
Sarah, GM Customer Service
Since I am a new user, i cannot PM you. My case number is 71-1143118212. My contact phone number is in my case file. I have a 5+ page word document detailing the phone calls since this case was elevated that I will be glad to send you. I am available in my office (number in case file) from 0800 PST to 1600 PST daily, if I do not answer please leave a voicemail with a callback number.
By the way, the 'scheduled' call time has come and gone, and I did not receive a phone call from the supervisor.
Sarah, GM Customer Service
This is why call scheduling is important. I cannot sit by a phone for 12 hours a day waiting for a call.
Apparently, email is not an option either, I have requested email addresses to no avail.
I will be scouring the net to find someone at GM that has an email address that can look into this. If anyone has any emails, please, let me know. I suppose I could contact my local news channel, they have a consumer representative type section each day just for problems like this.
If your representative will not do his job (mainly, communicate with you), keep calling, keep trying to speak with his supervisor, and document EVERYTHING.
Today, I found out that my district representative has been suddenly moved from the department and is no longer handling any cases. I do not know if this has anything to do with the way he handled (or rather didn't handle) my case, or the other case he was assigned to at the same dealership. I know that I am not the only one to lodge several complaints against him.
The new rep is out of TX, and seems to be genuinely concerned and invested in my problem. Even if he isn't, good on him for acting the part. I hope that we can come to some form of resolution. With this being my 3rd GM SUV/Truck purchase, and my family owning 8 other GM SUV/Truck products, I hope to continue my relationship with them.
Sorry to hear that you've had these problems with your Suburban. Your dealership is best fit to diagnose and repair your concerns. If you would like for us to document your issues within our system for future reference please email us at socialmedia@gm.com [attn Amber]. Please include your full name, VIN, mileage, contact information, dealership and reference this post.
Amber N.
GM Customer Care
Again, I apologize and understand how much of an inconvenience this has been. We'd like to try and help with your problem. Please email us, and we can work towards finding a resolution to your concerns.
Amber N.
GM Customer Care
Hey all, new to this forum but at the same time I share a lot of what I've been reading! Here's my story. We bought a 2007 suburban 5.3 AFM used about 4 years ago. It ran perfectly, with the obvious Chevy issues such as a transmission shift "flair". Oil consumption sucked about a quart of oil every 600-800 miles...but only really noticeable on highway trips. I think the AFM was definitely to blame, and after inquiring and submitting to dealership, they said it fell under "normal" category. After researching online, it most definitely was the AFM and GM had since put a shield to help reduce the oil consumption.
Anyway, I stayed on top of the oil consumption to make sure that there was always fresh oil in the engine. Then, one day about 3.5 months ago, blinking lights, stabilitrack failure, check engine, etc etc all hell breaks lose on the highway at 65mph. I immediately pull over. Fast forward to now - all said and done, after two diagnoses by independent mechanic AND chevy dealership, I have a flat camshaft lobe that causes the misfire, which then causes everything else to go awry in the computer system. Long story short - I need to rebuild or replace my engine. WTF?? And it's only a matter of give or take $500 difference to buy a new engine installed than it is to rebuild it. So rebuilding it is out of the question.
I pursue GM in good faith, as my family and I have always been GM people. I ask for some type of assistance as I'm out of warranty but an engine with 95% highway miles should last longer than 160k. I get the same type of runaround for nearly 3 weeks, waiting and waiting dfor a call back from the rep. I'd call every other day to touch base as I hadn't heard from her, and then finally called back to speak with another rep only to find out that the orginal girl had closed the case, stating that she couldn't get a hold of me. Um what? I called many many times , leaving the correct phone numbers to reach me, including email address! It was an obvious brush off. I couldn't believe the complete and utter disregard called "customer service". It's one thing to say no, but another to blow me off. I'm still pissed, and as I write this being a business owner myself, my mind is still blown how someone could be so blatantly rude.
I spoke with another rep and she elevated the case to a specialist, who then couldn't help me and pointed me to the "touch point' specialist - which is my dealership!!!! WHAT? All this rigmarole to just end back up where I started - where my suburban had ben siting for nearly 3 weeks! Oh, and then they say that they can't help me with the engine, but offer $500 off the $7,000++ cost to replace it.
GM Customer service is a JOKE! I don't know how any business, big or small, could survive with such BS. Thank God GM took my tax dollars to help stay in business, eh?
So where do I stand? With an expensive decision to replace the engine with either a GM engine or a Jasper engine. Meanwhile, my pregnant wife (now just had our 3rd baby!) is waiting to have her car back. Do any of you have any suggestions on which ave to pursue with either engine? Experience, opinions etc?
New GM engine or Jasper engine?
Thanks!!!
Mike
I have a 2003 suburban with 316,000 miles and maybe my experience will help your diagnosis.
At 226,000 miles my vehicle lost power on the highway and would not start. Sat for a few minutes and then it would start but then die again.
Brought it to my mechanic and he said it was the fuel pump going out. $880 later it ran great.
The funny part is my wife's 2001 suburban (212,000 miles)lost power while driving. Same thing, the fuel pump and another $880. Ran great after that but we sold it due to a handful of other issues.
Now with 316K on mine I'm having an occasional idle issue and it's stalled once. I haven't had a tune up in 100K so I'm going to do that today. AC Delco plugs and wires, clean the MAF, and change the oil.
Side note....I also add duralube to every oil change which is about every 5,000 miles. I do have to add 1 qt of oil after 3,000 miles though as it burns a little. Typical of a high mileage vehicle though.
Only 2 other issues I've had so far is I had the gauge cluster rebuilt because the power supply was going in it and it kept cutting the gauges off and on while driving. I had all the stepper motors and lights replaced too. The second is the AC/heat blower doesn't work, or shall I say it blows a little only while the vehicle is driving highway speeds. If I'm stopped, no air comes out.
It's been a great vehicle so far(knock on wood) with multiple trips from Atlanta where I live to Colorado 3 times, Texas a dozen times, Oklahoma 5 times, and a few dozen trips to LA, MS, and AL for work.
Still has the idle issue so I took it to get the belts replaced and have the altinator checked. Alt is putting out 14v and I'm going to replace it next as it was stumbling a little when the volts would dipped below 14 so I think that could be the problem. I'll respond if that fixes it.
Suburban is running great!
Great to hear - time to head for Colorado again!