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albook, Wrong. The Freestyle beats the entire comparison group in MPG. Thats valuable in my view, although some don't care about MPG. I like the GM offerings, too, although, like all except the Freestyle in this group, they are still not in the marketplace yet, and the Freestyle is a proven smoothe operator for 3 years now.
This comparison group of course is not the full story, as the veteran Nissan Murano, Honda Pilot, and maybe the Tribeca are other choices, and each have certain attributes that beat the Freestyle, but note the Freestyle is the total package overall.
Stephan Wilkinson, former editor in chief of C/D, has an amusing story: when the Datsun F210 was introduced to the press, he and his colleagues agreed that the car was awful, so he wrote a very negative review, which was published.
Soon after, the senior vice-president of the Ziff-Davis Publishing Co. called him into his office and chewed him out. Stephan's reply? "Well, we have a duty to the readers". The senior vice-president's reply? "F*** the readers, you have a duty to the advertisers, you moron!"
He was fired not long thereafter
So you see, that's why I wrote that I "hope" that advertising doesn't influence their reviews.
Freestyle mileage:
20/27 fwd, 19/24 awd
Acadia mileage:
19/26 fwd, 18/24 awd
Barely does the Acadia lose to the Freestyle. And I know most in this forum would give up 1 mpg for more space, styling, power, and quality. Ford reported only slightly over 2,000 units of Stylefree sold for the first month of January, down almost 60% from a year ago. Looks like we're not the only ones!
And about those magazines- you shouldn't rely solely on any one source, but it's good to know that MT thinks Edge is sluggish in performance, and doesn't have great ride, before you go and get 4 years worth of disapointment. knowledge is power, and they (including Car and Driver) are experts. Ofcourse, are we really going to gripe because Edmunds says the cupholders in the front of our Silverado are to too small? Not thinking so.
And for 0-60 times of Acadia, very ood for it's size, compared to much smaller Pilot-like 7.9 for fwd Acadia compared to like 8.5 for pilot. THe Edge shouldn't weigh as much as it does- that's what I'm saying. But both MT ans C&R said Acadia performance ws good while Edge was sluggish. Acdia's getting a V-8 too.
More ignorance with that statement... when is enough enough and a nicely tuned 6 perfectly acceptable for a CUV. It's not a coupe, not a high performance sedan, not a sports car, its a CUV. Marketing people LOVE people like you because all they see is a sucker and his money soon parted. Buy it for what it is, a comfortable, spacious,& safe vehicle to haul large amounts of people and stuff. That's what it does day in day out, If you need a speed fix park something more appropriate in the garage next to it and stop whining that it doesn't have 450hp, pull 1g on the skidpad, and a sub 5sec 0-60 time. When does any rational thought play any part of these discussions...
Oh get off your high horse. I have never heard anyone say. "I like it but it but I wish it had less power..."
We are Americans:
A lot of hp is good...
More hp is better...
Too Much is just right....
I have a 500+hp Mustang GT and would love a 450hp mide size CUV that handles like a sports sedan to drive every day. No wait, that is called a Porsche Cheyenne, VW Touareg, BMW X5, Mercedes ML500 and ML63. It is strange that these manufactures went to all that trouble to build these thing that no one wants...
Perhaps not . . though I'd say that the Freestyle has plenty of power with its CVT.
Caveat: I'm not driving it up and down hills/mountains all day long, so I can't comment on that . . though I have taken it over the Arbuckle Mountains a few times without difficulty.
That's probably why I bought one . . I'm an engineer, so I'm smart enough (hopefully, or so I think) to look past a lack of advertising and don't worry too much about vanity. The CVT is awesome.
I don't worry too much about no stability control, since I have AWD and I don't drive it like a maniac.
I also LIKE the fact that it's basically a Five Hundred Wagon (though a tall wagon). That way, it complements my Five Hundred (which basically drives the same way, though it handles better and accelerates better due to the lower weight, etc).
A lot of hp is good...
More hp is better...
Too Much is just right....
Thank God not all Americans think like that!
A lot of hp is a waste...
More hp is even more of a waste...
Too much hp is just plain stupid...
Give me better mpg over more hp anytime
THEN there was the CVT transmission, couldn't get a regular transmission. I will let somebody else work the kinks out of it. Seems others feel the same way since now they are bringing out a regular 6 spd (shame it is the stumbling GM/Ford joint venture and not the CX-9 6 spd.).
Then there was the cheap looking covering on the back of the cargo area and seats.
And there is the lack of towing capability.
Overall Ford will probably get this one right about one or two years before they cease production. Similar to the Pontiac Fiero, had the good motor and suspension in it right before they quit making it. Shame they couldn't have built it right to start with. The Freestyle fills a spot in the market but now it has to overcome its initial perception by people.
If something happened to my Pilot right now, I would look at the CX-9, the Pilot, and MAYBE the Acadia (big maybe). The Pilot needs updating (which appears to be coming next model year) but it still is an excellent product. Do wish it could tow more, plan on moving in a year or so.
I like hp as much as the next guy... you still didn't answer the question, when is enough enough? 250hp, 300hp, 350hp, CUV with a 0-60 of 7, 6, 5 seconds, when does it stop? It doesn't seem to. 10 years from now we have CUV's with 600hp, sub 4 sec 0-60 carrying 7 people and getting 12mpg and call that progress. When does driver's ed improve to make drivers capable of handling that or do we rely on electronics/computer's to solve all of that for us as well adding complexity and cost to what end I ask. Marketing, that's all it is, ego stroking, self-serving, vanity driven "progress".
"We are Americans:
A lot of hp is good...
More hp is better...
Too Much is just right...."
You wonder why this country is more than the butt of a few jokes, your quote goes a long way towards answering that question why are we labeled the ignorant americans.
Drive your GT in good health as it is what it is supposed to be not some SUV/CUV whatever dressed up playing pretend boy racer for the mental health of it's owner.
If you just want to focus on HP or speed, try the 0-60 is so yesterday! or The Growing Divergence Between Horsepower and Speed Limits discussions.
Both have plenty of zoom-zoom and similar RUG mpg ratings. The Mazda engine/trans seemed quieter but the PAC climate system in 6'F was quieter. A draw IMHO. The CX-9 third row headroom was slightly better but knee room was similar. Getting in/out was similarly car-height (unlike the Outlook
/Acadia which is truck-height.) The CX-9 is about $5K more than a similarly equipped PAC and the Power Lift Gate won't be available until June delivery. The storage space behind row 3 is also...similar and big enough only for two suitcases. Here's why we're buying the PAC: The front row isn't spacious on the Mazda CX-9: my knees hit on both sides and, if I lift my feet,some sort of bar hits my insteps. The middle row doesn't seem "aligned" with the rear doors: even with the middle seats all the way back, the B pillar really intrudes entering and exiting. That middle row is really a two-seater, not three. Toe room under the front seats for the 2nd row isn't terrific either. Oh, and the middle row seats recline only about 4".
Now I know the projected depreciation rate is higher on the PAC and there have been some early reports of tranny problems on the new Chrysler-sourced 6-speed, but my local dealer is great and, as I intimated, his price is very right.
Comments? Does anyone else notice the crowded feeling in the CX-9?
CX-9 Acadia Veracruz Pacifica
Legroom 40.9/39.8/32.4 41.3/36.9/33.2 42.6/38.4/31.5 40.9/39.9/29.9
Headroom 39.6/38.8/35.4 40.4/39.3/38.4 40.3/39.9/36.1 39.2/40/35.4
Shoulder room 59.4/58.7/56.4 61.9/61.1/57.8 60.6/60.2/56.1 60.8/60.5/58
Sorry about the numbers being squished together like that.
That is if you like a sluggish vehichle. But that is with our new "gotta have power" standings.
Don't forget third row leg room(only one inch), and 25 (yes 25)extra feet of cargo space. With wider third row, third row space is much better. With the smooth ride, the Acadia certainly doesn't have to pretend to be a CUV, then again, it doesn't have to pretend that much to be an SUV with such good veratility.
well I guess Honda and Toyota are ignorant right along with me since they feal it necasary to give us the power.
Marketing people LOVE people like you because all they see is a sucker and his money soon parted.
Don't be mad because you don't have the cash to part with.
It's about technology advancement. There is nothing wrong with good performance. Why does the safe MDX have 300hp? because mommies and daddies were still buying bimmers with 8's! The Ipod didn't need 80 gigabytes-I mean, who has 20,000 songs...
So sluggish that I routinely pass up Corvettes and other "sports cars" on the freeway with ease.
The vast majority of Horsepower out on the roads these days is WAY underutilized. Until a substantial number of the drivers of those vehicles start driving them like sports cars, I have all the power I need.
You must drive by a lot of Chevy dealers! Just kidding, But freeway driving is alot different from suburb stop and go driving. on the freeway, you get going once, and you keep going. In the suburbs, you go for five minutes, and stop. And many say freestyle is slow to get going.
Mazda is 30th in initial quality while Hyundai is 3rd. As far as the vehicle dependability study (which is for 3 year old models), Mazda and Hyundai are in a dead heat. As far as technology goes Mazda has navigation, bluetooth, and HID headlights over the Veracruz (all of which are available if happen to live in Korea :mad: ), but the Veracruz has a 100% keyless start system that doesn't ever require you to even use the key and a cooled center console. BTW, both the CX-9 and Veracruz source their transmission for Aisin.
I'm glad you choose to perpetuate the "Japanese cars are better" stereotype which worked a few of years ago, but other car makers, especially Hyundai, are stealing more thunder from the Japanese automakers. Mazda had better watch out for the Korean manufacturers, especially since lowly Kia had not one but two vehicles up for MT COTY.
I live in the suburbs.
If they think it's slow to get going, I'd have to say they don't know how to mash the gas pedal. Or they're fooled by the lack of apparent "kick down" from an obvious gear change like you experience in a typical automatic.
I suggest that they watch the Corvettes fall behind as they watch in the side mirrors.
The answer is simple. Too much HP is when people stop paying for it. At that point, the manufactures will quit adding more. It is a little thing called supply and demand.
However, I want to say that you also missed my point. I don't like preachy people who try to tell the rest of us how much HP is too much. I previosuly had a 400hp F150. It was a blast to drive.
Marketing, that's all it is, ego stroking, self-serving, vanity driven "progress".
So what if it is? I see NOTHING wrong with a little self endulgence every now and then? Life is too short...
A wise person once said: "If you mind your own business, you won't be minding mine..."
If I recall, it was a preacher who said that.
We're not going to settle the "free market" versus "responsible citizenship" debates here so let's stick to characterizing and comparing the vehicles and not the people.
tidester, host
Second row didn't seem to fit three adults. I would call this as a six seater not as 7 seater. Though legroom in all three rows was very comfortable but hip room in the second row for center seat wasn't good.
We decided to check Outlook and wait for Veracruz before spending around 40K for fully loaded CX-9.
Keep in mind that Hyundai is gaining huge ground every year in every area. Keep this in mind when you look at figures from several years ago. All studies show that Hyundai is gaining so much ground annually that to use these figures can be inaccurate and misleading due to their improvement. Just as they leapfrogged most of the field in initial quality, when the new VD studies are released, there will likely be an improvement that is extraordinary relative to field
Jeep Liberty? It's not that hard. 19 and 26 are great numbers that out do competitors like pilot, and the 4100 lbs CX-9. Just sayin'.
I believe the Veracruz will be priced competitive, as are with the rest of the Hyundai portfolio - price per feature ratio will continue to be high.
By the way, the mid-to-high 30K will likely be the loaded Veracruz version. Which of the models were you thinking about from H/T/N (Highlander, Pilot, Murano?)? Comparably equipped, I feel Hyundai will continue to maintain the price advantage, as well as being on par in most other areas with rival.
As for bluetooth, would a cell phone with speaker capability remedy the issue?
Personally, I am indifferent about these features. I look for practicability and price per content (feature).
I know is was Saturn's original business plan to charge MSRP, but I understand they had to modify the plan to stay in business.
Please post your experiences.
Thanks
Also interesting to see 2007 Freestyle advertised for less than $21K...might be the price leader if nothing else :-)
Maybe you can post over in the new Saturn Outlook: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion too and get that one started?
Thanks!
(For Acadia fans, we now have GMC Acadia: Prices Paid & Buying Experience - we'll wait until closer to release date for the Enclave).
As far as JD, I thought you're in the car business! You usually get a tour on how they rate vehicles..then you go out and test drive that car used and get a totally different opinion. Go drive a Hyundai with 60k, and a Toyota or a Mazda with 100K. Or ask the techs in the back what do they drive, and were it falls in JD.
Another, do you check the Huyndai forums and help folks with the issues they're having? I don't see your post there! :P
is pilot not dirctly in competition? Is CX-9 not in the title of this forum? Plenty more examples, but I'm gonna stop there.