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Crossover SUV Comparison

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Comments

  • mattandimattandi Member Posts: 588
    My wife and I have shopped for the last couple of months. We routinely find we could use more than five seats. We use all five seats in our wagon daily. So, our make or break criteria is a new buggy must offer more than five seats standard or as an option. We camp a lot, so cargo capacity should be above average while only using five seats. At least some cargo capacity while using all seats would be a bonus, but we're not opposed to putting a cargo box on top. I was surprised at how crowded the list starts out.

    Vans:
    Honda Odyssey
    Toyota Sienna
    Nissan Quest
    Kia Sedona
    Hyundai Entourage
    Dodge Grand Caravan
    Chrysler Town and Country
    Chevy Uplander

    I know this isn't a minivan thread. Sue me. Vans are practical and offer the utility we need. My wife just has never liked vans. I wanted one four years ago when we last purchased. We bought a wagon.

    BOF SUV:
    Ford Explorer
    Ford Expedition
    Lincoln Navigator
    Dodge Durango
    Chrysler Aspen
    Chevy Tahoe
    Chevy Suburban
    Gmc Yukon
    Cadillac Escalade
    Benz GL class
    Toyota Land Cruiser
    Toyota 4 Runner
    Toyota Sequoyia
    Nissan Armada
    Hummer H2
    Infinity QX56
    Jeep Commander
    Land Rover LR3
    Lexus GX 470
    Lexus LX 570

    I grew up in trucks and Suburbans. I thought my brothers Bronco was the coolest thing ever. So, I was alright with a BOF. My wife does not like the driving dynamics. Says they all just feel big and clumsy, even the small ones. Besides, off roading and towing are of no importance to us. So, we move on.

    Unibody / CUV:
    Acura MDX
    Honda Pilot
    Audi Q7
    BMW X5
    Ford Taurus X
    Mazda CX9
    Mitzubishi Outlander
    Subaru Tribeca
    Suzuki XL7
    Toyota Highlander
    Toyota Rav4
    Volvo XC90
    Buick Enclave
    GMC Acadia
    Hyundai Veracruz
    Saturn Outlook
    Land Rover Range Rover
    Cadillac SRX
    Hyundai Santa Fe
    Hyundai Veracruz

    Now, we have some contenders. I really like the lambdas, the Acadia especially. Purely a styling preference. Wife says it still feels too big for her comfort. We both like the Veracruz. Sized right and the handling acceptable. The Taurus X also stands out. Very comfortable drive and ride. Wagon-like styling appeals to my wife. She likes wagons, can ya tell? The Highlander is nice, but the solid third row seems an oversight. The Pilot is a dark horse. We used to have a CR-V and liked it a lot. Some of these are just too small or expensive.

    We also checked out.

    Oddballs:
    Mazda 5
    Kia Rondo
    Benz R Class

    Didn't like the seating arrangement of the 5 or the Banz. The Rondo was surprising. Really impressive utility for such a small vehicle. No pretense at being anything other than practical, but loaded up offers reasonable comfort and convenience.

    We have driven most of these, not all. We can afford most of these, not all. Cut off at about $35k. Went to our local car show and sat in the high line stuff and played with the buttons. Had fun.

    Anyway, current ones we are still considering.

    Veracruz
    Taurus X
    Rondo
    Pilot

    I know, strange line up. We still have a couple to try out. CX9 and the others being released over the next few months. We're in no hurry. We're taking advantage of a house opportunity first.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I was looking at an Acadia SLT 4SB package to compare with the MD-X (Memory Seats, Tri-Zone Climate). The Acadia was just about as expensive as the Acura, yet didn't include the

    Power/memory operated steering column
    Low and high beam HIDs
    Turn signals in the mirror
    An mP3 connection (to get the stereo with this would make the GMC more expensive than the base MD-X)
    Moonroof (same as the stereo about the price)
    25 horses and 24 lb-ft of torque (combine that with a less weight and the Acura zooms away from the GMC)
    SH-AWD System

    The GMC has more room, a power liftgate and 1 MPG better at this price, but comes up looking a little overpriced when comparing a product with some entry-lux cachet (and high resale value) to something from the General.

    That's what I got from my comparison. I'd never spend $40k on a vehicle, GMC or Acura alike.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    To be honest, I think these are very different buyers. An MDX is a lot sportier than an Enclave. An Enclave is a lot bigger. The MDX would feel cramped with 7+ people and luggage, while the Enclave would feel just as awkward driving through the Mouth of the Dragon.

    They sort of fall at opposite ends of the spectrum, IMHO.

    Very true, I agree.

    But, I think the Lambdas get away with their high price because of the sticker's their V8 truck brethren carry on the same car lot (Yukons and Tahoes at $40k-$50k? Sheesh!), which make their CUVs look like a much better value at $35k-$40k.

    Sorry folks, but I have to say this (skip if you don't like the M word :shades: )

    When you look at the features minivans offer (yes I said the M word) for thousands less, these big CUVs become a tougher sell. Luckily for GM dealers, they killed their own minivans by not keeping up with competition, so nothing is on the lot that can make them think of the M word.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    long but worth the time and effort even if you normally don't like my posts...

    http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-03/ff_seacowboys?currentPag- e=all

    enjoy, I'm not kidding, very interesting ....
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    just a friendly FYI, it's Tail of the Dragon I believe you are refering to as opposed to what you mentioned. Unless there is a local road you are referring that isn't as well know to the rest then please tell us about it...

    http://www.tailofthedragon.com/

    I think is what you are referencing...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I saw that a couple of days ago and it's a very cool read indeed. Great photos too.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Interesting article:
    http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-SUV- - s/
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    read their "process" and you'll find it even more difficult to take seriously. they "review the reviewer's"...

    "How We Rank Cars:
    Our car rankings are based on hard data and analysis.

    We combine two types of information: published reviews from respected automotive critics and hard data from a variety of independent sources. We do not rely on a single source of data or on our own tests or preferences.

    We essentially "review the reviewers" to come up with a consensus score representing what professional critics think of a car. We then add information of particular interest to consumers, such as safety and reliability data, that isn't part of the critics' reviews.

    We combine those scores in a formula that is based on what consumers say matters to them most in a car (what's important to you, not what's important to us). The result is an overall score for each car, which allows us to make head-to-head comparisons of cars, ranking them against each other.

    In some instances, the overall score is higher or lower than the component scores we display. This is because in our calculation of the overall score, we also take into account each author's level of recommendation or overall impression about the car. Occasionally, a car really is more (or less) than the sum of its parts.

    Review of Reviews. First, our researchers use proprietary software to locate the most credible car reviews available--often several dozen or more. Our analysts then carefully read the reviews and, using consistent guidelines, translate each author's written opinions into numerical scores for different aspects of the car, such as performance, handling, and styling.
    Consumer Data. To complement the reviews, we pull in data such as crash-test ratings from the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, and other freely available but hard-to-digest data.
    Weighted Scores. Both sets of scores are then combined and weighted based on several factors, including the results of a national consumer survey asking which qualities buyers most value in a car. The result is an overall 0-to-10 score for the car.
    Head-to-Head Rankings. Once the car has an overall score, we rank it against other cars in its class.
    Category Scores. We also score each car on specific attributes: performance, exterior, interior, safety, and reliability.
    Regular Updates. Because products are continually updated and reviews keep coming in, we periodically update our scores and rankings to make them the most current measures available."
  • jimmy2xjimmy2x Member Posts: 124
    Have seen this before. Find it a bit difficult to take seriously a "ranking" article that is nothing more than a cherry-picked series of reviews from other publications.

    The 4Runner review from About is for a 2006 V8 and makes it sound like people are unhappy with their 23 gallon fuel tank. I had to giggle.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "Would you pick an MDX or an Enclave to drive on this twisty road?"

    doesn't matter in reality, go to the web site I posted and watch the video of the revenue generators, I mean law enforcement and tell me it really matters whether you have the boulevard cruiser or the "performance" model. either one will navigate the road safely and if caught 1mph above posted limit would be summarily cited it seems after watching that.

    you really want me to pick, $48k for a gussied up pilot, its a no brainer the enclave with the money saved for track days with the alfa...

    I don't kid myself with the idea of my passengers holding on or squirming in their seats "enjoying" the "performance" of the roll angles of a 4k+lb vehicle with a high center of gravity trying to fight physics going around a corner on vacation. i.e not my idea of "performance" driving.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Our family is a lot like yours (minus one kid) and my wife too likes wagons over minivans and SUV looking vehicles. We bought a TaurusX TX (called Freestyle FS) back in Feb '05. At the time there was no Veracruz, Rondo, nor Acadia, CX-9, etc, so the TX/FS was the best choice for us at the time.

    A couple of questions. What are the ages of your 3 kids and what are you driving now that holds 3 across in the 2nd row? Any carseats involved? And when you carry more than 5 people, do you need much cargo space?

    The Rondo has a pretty good 2nd row and good cargo space behind the 2nd row with the 3rd row folded, as does the Veracruz, so I'd put the three kids back in the 2nd row of each to see how they like it, and then imagine how they'll like it as they grow bigger! Only problem with the Rondo is that when you do use the 3rd row, you're going to have to move up the 2nd row to get everyone comfortable, so it will depend on the size of the people you're carrying. The Veracruz will give you some more space.

    The TX has a good sized 2nd row with lots of legroom, and the 3rd row can handle adults easily without the need to slide up the 2nd row. Our FS has the same dimensions as the current TX. We have a 2nd row bench that can hold three adults and two more adults in the 3rd row. Our bench seat doesn't slide forward, but doesn't really need to because there's plenty of space in the 3rd row for two. Cargo space behind the 2nd row of the TX isn't bad, but the way the 3rd rwo flips and folds cuts into some height of the cargo area behind the 2nd row.

    I wouldn't consider the Pilot because to me it's more SUV that what it sounds like you're looking for.

    Another plus for the Rondo is that a fully loaded one should't cost more than $20,000 with the discounts/rebates, plus you get the 100,000 mile warranty. The TX and Veracruz will add another $5-$10,000 or more depending on options you get, but you'll find some pretty good discounts on the TX since it's not a new model nor a hot seller.

    Personally for me if I had a 3rd kid I'd go for a Sienna. It has a nice wide 2nd row "bench" with 3 individual seats, so you could easily fit three carseats across if necessary. And a huge amount of cargo space with the 3rd row folded so you'd never need to put anything on the roof. And even when you need to use the 3rd row it has twice the cargo space behind the 3rd row then any CUV.

    But since we're probably stopping with 2 kids I'll probably keep the FS a long time.
  • qs933qs933 Member Posts: 302
    read their "process" and you'll find it even more difficult to take seriously.

    I'd trust the multitude of opinions here in these forums before I'd take the U.S. News rankings seriously.

    Look at the Highlander. The 2008 Hybrid (#7) scores a 4.7 for the exterior. The non-hybrid model (#9) scores a 7.7. Given that the exteriors are virtually identical, I guess certain reviewers really hate the Hybrid's unique wheels or tail lights?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tail of the Dragon, yes, indeed.

    Would you pick an MDX or an Enclave to drive on this twisty road?

    image

    No need to answer because the answer is quite obvious.

    I love how US News gives the Jeep Grand Cherokee such a high score for "Performance". :D
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    what happened to the edit feature for posts?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW MDX reviews I've seen say Acura did a pretty good job getting that vehicle to handle well. I haven't sampled one of the newer ones yet.

    For me the price puts it out of contention, so no matter.

    [the Edit feature is back]
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "FWIW MDX reviews I've seen say Acura did a pretty good job getting that vehicle to handle well"

    I'm not doubting they did, I would hope so for $48k, but they all do to varying degrees for what they are, big people/stuff carriers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    C&D's lateral grip scores for this class tend to be in the high .70s, usually around 0.76-0.77g. The MD-X managed 0.87g. Pretty significant advantage compared to the average big crossover. Competitive with some sport sedans.

    So you might say it handles well, and not just "for a crossover".

    I'm not sure how well it rides with those big rims, something's gotta give, and you already mentioned the price, but I thought it was worth noting.

    I chose instead to get one big, practical family car, and a little roadster/sports car for fun commuting and errand running. The former fits more inside and the latter is more fun, especially with the top down. One was used but I spent a total of about $33k, so I think I still came out well ahead.

    I guess if a driver wants a cake-and-eat-it-too single vehicle, MDX is not a bad choice. Just be prepared to pay up.
  • jimmy2xjimmy2x Member Posts: 124
    I think that quoting MSRP for almost any vehicle tends to distort the actual difference in consumer actual cost.

    Current selling prices in the Mid-Atlantic area are generally as follows:

    MDX base - 38K
    MDX Tech - 41K
    MDX Tech/Entertainment - 44.5K

    These are pretty close and while certainly not inexpensive are considerably less than one might think. Pricing is, of course, before taxes, tags, etc.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    CR released their "Top Picks" list today and the 2008 Santa Fe made it! ;)

    CR makes Santa Fe a Top Pick
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Kudos to Hyundai. A lot of us have been saying how much they've improved lately.

    Two cars I own are on that list. I guess they got that fruit basket I sent them. :D

    Hey, if the wife trades in for a Santa Fe, all 3 of our cars would be on there.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Would you pick an MDX or an Enclave to drive on this twisty road?
    I wouldn't pick either and would avoid it like the plague on a family trip. That's the type of road that would have half my passengers complaining about nausea and telling me to slow down etc etc. In my WRX....well that's a different story.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    wonder if Vad read it???

    can't wait for that spin....lol
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You leave the wife at the spa/outlet, and then make the run by yourself.

    Or take you son if he's old enough to drive, and take turns at the wheel.

    It's not just the Tail of the Dragon, it's whatever favorite road you may have. We all have one like that. At least car nuts like me tend to.

    Mine is Rock Creek, not the main trail but the alternate trails only a local would know.

    I'd tell you where, but then I'd have to kill you. ;)
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    "That's the type of road that would have half my passengers complaining about nausea and telling me to slow down etc etc."

    Yes, if you will drive like Michael Schumacher. I have drove Acadia thru the mountains on east coast, and no one had complain. Of course WRX or even better 911 Porsche will be better on twisty road.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    let's not forget daughter's that we were equally blessed with, we don't want to be sexist around here... she's 2+ so I have a few years to go...

    mine was/is PCH south of carmel on a clear moonlit night. Now I'm in Chicago and still searching... any insight out there???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, how disappointingly un-controversial. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not with my daughter, I lost that battle. Tried everything I could to get my daughter in to cars. No sale. :sick:

    About the only thing she cares about is having rooms for her to bring along as many friends as she likes. We often carpool and take 2-3 of her friends home from Hoops practice.

    My son, OTOH, is still very young, but I can see it in him. He'll be a car guy, like his dad. He's the one yelling "faster, daddy, faster".

    I did at least get my daughter to help me bleed the brakes (pumping the brake pedal). So perhaps it's not a lost cause.
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    What kind of elevation changes are on that route? Is it hilly also, or fairly flat?
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    at 2.5 she's got a friend with a "little tyke's" car and when they get together she nudges her way into the drivers seat regardless of it being occupied or not that I have some great pictures of... I'll grasp on to every little glint of hope I can...
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Well, my daughter may be my best hope. At the age of two and 1/2, she made a beeline for a MB SLK in the show-room and climbed in. She had a screaming fit for almost an hour after we dragged her out of the driver's seat when it was time to go. At one level I was very impressed, at another I wish she had more economical tastes.

    edit
    OH and AHEM.... we were test driving the R series that day for appropriate CUV content.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    what happened to the edit feature for posts?

    You have 30 minutes to edit from the time you post a message.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Unless a server gets out of sync -- we had one hiccup recently and some posts got made with incorrect time stamps. That could be why you didn't see the Edit button right after you posted.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    thanks for the update on that one... that seemed to be what I saw going on today...
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "At one level I was very impressed, at another I wish she had more economical tastes."

    actually she does instead of an SLK it could have easily been an SL...LOL

    How did you like the R???
  • findmefindme Member Posts: 36
    In the US News report, it was stated that the concern for the Outlook was the transmission. Since the Outlook is on the same platform as the Acadia and the Enclave, does it not share the same transmission and engine? I thought the experts could explain to me how the Outlook is having these problems, but not the Acadia and the Enclave. Thank you!
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    This US News report is basically dated crap. All the Lambdas had transmission software issues in the 2007 and early 2008 models. New software has been out for several months now, which greatly improves shifting and hesitation issues (not completely solved, but better nonetheless). These new updates are all well known to the "real" news sources.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    hence the fallacy of "performance" CUV's...your point sums it up with all the "enthusiast" bravado that get's thrown around. I sit back and laugh, they simply need to be safe, competant, keep up with traffic and brake, some do that better than others around here but to label them capable of any real "performance" is quite silly.

    And yet I still pass up those driving "performance cars" with great frequency.

    Perhaps it's more the driver than the car? :P

    I estimate that 90%+ of "performance vehicles" aren't used for performance. Kinda like 90%+ of SUVs aren't used off-road.
  • barnstormer64barnstormer64 Member Posts: 1,106
    Would you pick an MDX or an Enclave to drive on this twisty road?

    No. :P
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    it's true.
    Owner of performace cars is more showing their wealth, than any thing else. It's like my good friend from Germany asked me why do americans buying muscle cars? Here is no autobahn, speed limit 55-75 mph, so it's pretty much useless to have one of those cars.
    I will say, you can choose a CUV by interior space you need, fuel economy (that will not be great, although it's some kind hybrid), price and equipment for this price.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    I'm just trying to stay away from uselees argue. Like a " Mr. Schumacher" on CUV with family, on twisty road and doing about 100 mph., trying to catch a some fun, driving on MDX or CX-9.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    track days are becoming more prevelant here in the US like they have been in europe for awhile now. Places like Joliet's Autobahn "country Club" for auto entusiasts are making it easier and more accessible for people to track their cars. NASA, Track Time, PCA, BMWCCA, Alfa club and many others make track time available around the country with instruction available at reasonable prices. While I agree with most of your statement it is getting better for the entusiasts to take advantage of what they have under their right foot.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The point is, you choose your vehicle for the job you intend. Carving through twisty back roads at 7-9/10ths is NOT what this class of vehicle is designed for.

    The sportier suspensions in these rigs will suffice for semi-spirited driving but don't get fooled by the weight/phsics formula at speed.

    Regards,
    OW
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    There's still an advantage to having a car that has better handling/steering just in normal driving. It's not just the fact that you can drive faster and quicker around corners and curves, but at any given speed, the better handling/sportier vehicle will feel more stable and give you a driving experience that's more fun. Whether you're on a long highway road trip, your commute to work, or running around doing errands, you might as well have some fun. And to me, it's more fun driving a car with sportier handling. That's one of the reasons I bought my FS over a mivinan a few years ago. By no means is the FS "sporty," but compared to the minivans I test drove at the time, it was more car-like in the driving dynamics, which appealed to me and was more of a value to me than the extra space that I didn't need. So for some, the largeness of the lamdas isn't as much of a benefit than a sportier drive.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    How did you like the R???

    Both my DW and I really liked the R. It is probably the only CUV we considered that didn't involve any compromises as a vehicle. 3rd row fit for adults, still useful cargo area behind, very good economy with the diesel, nice luxury feel, decent driving dynamics, uber smooth transmission. Plus, as I've said before we both like the look of a wagon so we liked the look of it too. It was probably DW's favourite in that regard. The engine was nice with gobs of torque off the line and good acceleration but you can't tell it's a diesel from inside the vehicle and you don't even hear it at idle.
    The two fatal strikes against it were the ridiculous premium we have to pay in Canada - about $68k without any indulgences (aka no nav or DVD), and the fact we have no dealer for 300 miles. The former just left a very bad taste in my mouth, that the same vehicle built in Alabama puts $15-$20000 more in the pocket of MB when sold up here versus down South.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    That's a huge hit to take with the competition that's out there. you'd never get that amount back in fuel costs ever... that's a shame as it really defeats the purpose...
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    In isolation, the premium for the diesel over the gasser is quite small, and would pay for itself very quickly. Diesel is readily available up here and reasonably priced. ALL the R series are price-gouged regardless of engine. MB has dropped prices since we shopped, but only a fraction of the difference. They just got slapped with a law-suit for anti-competition practises wrt Canadian sales and attempts to block the importation of US vehicles to Canada. I read that news with glee.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    I was going to suggest shopping across the border but wasn't sure whether they'd tax you trying to bring it in and that still doesn't solve the 300mile to a dealer problem... so I'm guessing (correct me if I'm wrong) you'll be shopping elsewhere...
  • cjsbcjsb Member Posts: 71
    A vehicle brought back into Canada is subject to federal and provincial taxes (5% & 8% in Ontario). And I believe the basic rule of thumb is about $2K for the documentation (R.I.V. and Ministries) and vehicle modifications (daytime running lights, bumper, metric, etc.) - though I haven't imported personally so others may know better.

    And though I could be wrong, I think that if the vehicle is not built in North America and hence not qualfiable under NAFTA there may be a further 6% (?) fee to be paid.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Yes, but the R is built in Alabama so it avoids that tax, a US sourced Highlander Hybrid is subject to it because it comes from Japan. Other problem is that Transport Canada has a data base of vehicles which can be imported to Canada. This list is populated by input from the manufacters. In the MB section it states that a vehicle can only be imported with a letter from MB saying it can. You have to supply the exact VIN. Rumour has it this letter may take months to get done. So then, either the US dealer has already sold it to someone else, or you get to pay upfront for a vehicle that sits on a US dealer's lot for a while. That's is if they don't simply deny it can be imported. Some manufacturers have also insisted they can only approve vehicles for import and registration if installs such as DRL's and switching to Metric readouts if done by a licenced service centre for that brand. They have been charging $2000 for those minor mods alone.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    When you look at the features minivans offer (yes I said the M word) for thousands less, these big CUVs become a tougher sell.

    That's really not totally true, as people who look at CUVs don't really want minivans (yes, yes atiexera, I know).If you want totally space and comfort, get a minivan. But if you want style and power, and to look good in front of your soccer mom friends (for you ladies out there), and are willing to make a little sacrifice, then get a CUV.
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