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Crossover SUV Comparison

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    albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    "The Pilot was around long before the term CUV was even used."

    Yes, and I think this is why Honda first began marketing the Pilot in this way.

    "...why does the Pilot have to use it? Of course...because albook says so"

    Finally, someone gets it :P

    I guess it really doesn't matter how Honda markets it. It wouldn't change who buys it.
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    freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "However, the Pilot can't offroad like an SUV"

    8"/8.3"(G.C.) of ground clearance and short front/rear overhangs preclude it going off road in your (al)book

    "The Jeep can tow too'

    if you line up 6 cyl models to compare apples to apples then the pilot wins 4500lbs vs. 3500lbs for the G.C.

    this is my favorite though;

    "And these things don't necessarily make an SUV, but all BOF SUVs (and a select few unibodies like the Cherokee and Toureg) have them"

    so you want to have it both ways... you want to dismiss the pilot as not being a SUV because it doesn't meet these requirements you need it to have to be called a SUV. you then in the very same statement go on to dismiss the very criteria you use to measure the pilot's lack of SUV-ness as any definable measure of SUV's in general other than to say they all have them.

    at this point you can make an argument the lambda's are SUV's, the CX's, any of them for that matter as they can all tow to an extent and can go off road in some manner.

    "Yet again, I logically defend my point. "

    corrected... yet again, I made NO point...
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    piastpiast Member Posts: 269
    Don't forget about high/ low range 4WD. Anything with automatic (on demand) AWD used to be called CUV. Just a thought.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Question: Does the Pilot have the lockable AWD? I know it used to have a button in which you could lock it 50/50 on the fly. Or at least I think it did... it has been years (4) since I've been in a Pilot.
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    piastpiast Member Posts: 269
    The Pilot uses four-wheel drive system called Variable Torque Management 4WD (VTM-4). VTM-4 is a proactive system that combines the best features of modern on-demand and conventional four-wheel drive systems. Most of the time, the Pilot goes down the road in front-wheel drive. But when you put your foot down, VTM-4's brain tells electromagnetic clutches to engage the drive to the rear wheels, and even more torque is shuttled to the rear if wheel slip is registered. The VTM-4 predicts your need for more traction.
    Not designed to be an SUV-wannabe, the Pilot was engineered with medium-duty off- road capabilities including eight inches of ground clearance, an 28-degree approach angle, 21-degree departure and break over angles and the ability to climb a 28-degree dirt slope from a standing stop.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Hey grad, your picture is too wide and is causing the posts to stretch under the ads to the right. Can you please shrink it or remove it?
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I found some more CUV vs SUV vs minivan sales trends for you juice. Note that they state minivan sales are expected to be below 600k this year. Make sure you look at the graph at the end of the article too.

    Click here for the article and graph.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hey grad, your picture is too wide

    What he said.:-)
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    freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    maybe he's just compensating....

    just kidding... lol
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Whoops... didn't cause me a problem on my monitor. Sorry about that. Looks like steve took care of it. Did y'all see what I was talking about though (the VTM button)?

    Shouldn't that lock the Pilot into what is essentially "4WD HIGH" ?
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "The Pilot uses four-wheel drive system called Variable Torque Management 4WD (VTM-4). "

    Translation: No, the Pilot driver cannot manually lock the AWD system.
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    freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    "The VTM-4 system has a dashboard switch that locks both rear half-shafts to get the driver unstuck, but it operates in just the first two gears and unlocks at 18 mph (29 km/h). Otherwise, the system operates primarily in front-wheel drive and sends torque to the rear wheels when spin is detected up front. "
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "The Pilot was around long before the term CUV was even used. The Pilot used to be called a SUV then, but now that the CUV term is being used, why does the Pilot have to use it? Of course...because albook says so"

    The question for me vis-a-vis CUV or SUV is where the vehicle originated. A CUV is based on a passenger design. Thus the CR-V was based on the Civic (ruggedized). I think that the Pilot was based on the Odyssey platform.

    In my opinion an SUV has to be custom designed for heavy "utility" use, not based on a passenger vehicle. Note that starting from a truck design still makes it an SUV; trucks are designed for utility use. Cars and vans are not.

    By this standard the GM "Acadians" are CUV, since they were designed to passenger standards.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    When the vehicle is stuck, or likely to become so, simply pushing a dash-mounted VTM-4 button will lock-in an equal power split between the front and rear wheels. Although this may not be a true 4-wheel drive setup, it accomplishes much the same results when the ultimate in traction is required.

    image
    The button is just to the left of the CD Player, under the flashers.
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    stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "When the vehicle is stuck, or likely to become so, simply pushing a dash-mounted VTM-4 button will lock-in an equal power split between the front and rear wheels. "

    The post to which I was replying did not mention a switch. It's good to know this is available.

    How about Limited Slip? Is that available?

    (I was going to say "How about LSD?", but I thought people might get a bit confused!) :P
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Limited slip wasn't mentioned, but the button was mentioned in an earlier post I had made which had to be removed because the picture was too wide, so I tried again, and this time posted it with a reviewer's explanation of the button.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    The original 2001-2004 Escape had a similar system. It's gone now though and has been replaced with an all electronic 4WD system. I owned both and liked the original better to be honest. I would guess that button in the Pilot does the same thing and locks the front and rear with 50/50 power.

    BTW, you mentioned that that button is like what you'd find in an Explorer, Jeep, etc. Our Explorer has 3 buttons for the 4WD. Auto, 4-Hi, and 4-Lo. There's actually a pretty big difference.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Whoops... didn't cause me a problem on my monitor.

    That was actually kind of weird. The posts were hiddne behind the ads when I first came in but once I posted and a new page was created they were then stretched out and I could see them again.

    I too have a BIG monitor so that wasn't the problem. :P
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A "normal" sized photo may have been cached on your system. When you posted it, the photo blew out the margins for me and most others I suspect. Our forum software doesn't handle large photos very gracefully.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Number of times the average Explorer owner pushes "4Lo"... likely less than 2. I meant the interface was much the same for "locking" 4WD.
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    dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    When the vehicle is stuck, or likely to become so, simply pushing a dash-mounted VTM-4 button will lock-in an equal power split between the front and rear wheels. Although this may not be a true 4-wheel drive setup, it accomplishes much the same results when the ultimate in traction is required.

    FYI: if you have a Pilot, when engaging VTM4 for these purposes, it is also recommended to disengage ESC (accomplished by a different button on the dash) for as long as VTM4 is needed.
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    bmr123bmr123 Member Posts: 60
    Wow that's probably the dullest most boring car display i've ever seen. No wonder everyone I talk to says they would never buy a Pilot. Hopefully they update that into this decade when they re-design the car.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Ha, well to be fair it was a Canadian LX "Granite Edition" which I think amounts to our "Value Package."

    Here's a 2008 more upscale model.

    image
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    bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    "boring display" and "exterior style" if these are the reasons people buy a car then all I can say is WOW....you might as well say that you're buying car X because it has the best color! I guess safety, reliabiility, driving dynamics, interior space, comfort, interior quality, MPG, resale value, price, etc...don't mean too much...boy that blue is sooooo nice !!!!!!!! ;)
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I guess safety, reliabiility, driving dynamics, interior space, comfort, interior quality, MPG, resale value, price, etc...don't mean too much.

    Seeing as all the competitors meet or Exceed Honda in most of those areas now why not have some style too?
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting graph, thanks.

    Indeed, pretty much what we said. The minivan pie is shrinking, but far fewer entries are competing for it.

    With Crossovers, the segment seemingly has a new entry each week or so.

    So, would you rather eat a personal pan pizza all by yourself, or get a large and share it with 8 friends? :D
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I like this:

    karsick, "Good Styling" #25, 26 Apr 2008 6:09 pm
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    bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Seeing as all the competitors meet or Exceed Honda in most of those areas now why not have some style too?

    Great...if that's REALLY the case, then why not some specifics to back up your one-liner...better than listening to people's opinions on what color looks better.
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    volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    What happened, gas hits $4 a gallon and everyone abandons big CUVs?
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    saabturboidsaabturboid Member Posts: 178
    We've already started driving our car a lot more than our Freestyle because of the high fuel prices. Being an AWD model it typically gets about 20mpg with mixed city/highway driving. Our other car (a 4cyl Saab) gets about 30mpg. We are really starting to evaluate if we really need such a large vehicle with gas prices going where they are. Our family of four fits in the Saab albeit a lot less comfortably for long road trips than in the roomy Freestyle. It's too bad really since we love our Freestyle so much but can not continue to afford the twice a week $50+ fill ups. Gas was under $2 per gallon when we bought the Freestyle. It seems like such a fantasy now.

    - Chad
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    nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    What happened, gas hits $4 a gallon and everyone abandons big CUVs?

    Lol, was just thinking the same thing. I think the novelty has worn out, the Acadia, CX-9, Highlander, etc have been out quite a while now, gotta find something new to compare to and to complain about!

    And talking about new, I think the smaller SUVs might get more buzz, like the redesigned Murano and Forester, for the sole reason that they get better mpg (well I assume they do)
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Motor Trend has a new comparison small CUVs, in their most efficient forms. In no particular order, those included are the Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forrester, Nissan Rogue, and Saturn Vue.

    Check out the article here: The Frugal Five.

    It seemed like y'all were looking for new conversation; I thought I'd share. :)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester is on our short list so that was very encouraging for us.

    I'm bummed that they tested FWD models for everyone except the Forester. That skews the mpg, 0-60, curb weight, etc. :(

    Still, it had the most grip and the best ride, a tough balance to achieve.

    Here's another comparo the Forester also won:

    http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=51689
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Forester is on our short list so that was very encouraging for us.

    Let me fix this for you Juice...

    Forester was on our short list so that was very encouraging for us, now it is the only one on our list. :)

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    :D

    Problem is, I can't find one! The closest LL Bean without Navi in blue is all the way up in New Jersey! :(

    We may factory order.

    Plus, I want the PZEV model, it's cleaner and it actually makes 5 more HP, to 175hp.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The one in NJ is PZEV. But a birdie at the factory told me you ordered already :)

    You should come up to NJ, we could go visit a mutual friend of ours :)

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Word gets out fast. I wanted it to be a surprise.

    You dog! You're pretty well connected, eh? ;)
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hee hee, Papa Paisan knows all! :)

    Want me to delete?

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, that's OK.

    It's hard to keep it a secret anyway. I was dying to say something, to be honest. I just thought it would be funny to pull up to Bob's driveway in the new one. :D
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    volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    And here I thought I was going to shock everyone and get a Highlander before Juice. Then Dra started dragging her feet with the PZEV issue. So who knows what's going to happen. I wonder why the PZEV gets identical power output in the OB/Leg but gains 5hp in the Forester.???
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No idea, but it was a selling point for us. Even without the extra power. It's only something like $200 extra, definitely worth it.

    PZEV models also carry a longer emissions warranty in 8 or 10 states that require them, so hopefully that equipment is more durable as well.
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    vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    "Check out the article here: The Frugal Five. "

    But fuel economy it's not really great. The 20 MPG in city is most driving people do, so in real world it will be 18-19 MPG. Where at same time my Acadia get me in city and in traffic 85% about 17-18 mpg. So where is benefit to buy small SUV?
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The 20 MPG in city is most driving people do, so in real world it will be 18-19 MPG. Where at same time my Acadia get me in city and in traffic 85% about 17-18 mpg. So where is benefit to buy small SUV?

    I'm not sure how you can say that people "real-world" will get lower that EPA in these small CUVs but you in the real-world get better than EPA.

    If you get over EPA estimates in your Acadia, you likely would in a small CUV as well.

    What world are you living in? Haha. :)
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I'm not sure how you can say that people "real-world" will get lower that EPA in these small CUVs but you in the real-world get better than EPA.

    You know better than that now grad! Everyone now knows, thanks to one or two owners on this thread, that the Lamdas can drive on (not in) water therefore they can get better fuel mileage due to the decrease in rolling friction the water provides.

    Haven't you read the Bible? :P
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    stmssstmss Member Posts: 206
    I just did a 1500 km weekend trip with the family - 3 kids. I have a Freestyle and Saab 9-5 - guess which one I took? And I paid $1.43/litre for gas ($5.41/usgal) - . I could have taken my Volvo which gets better mileage than both.
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    bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    So where is benefit to buy small SUV?

    How about purchase price? You'll save thousands buying the smaller SUVs and that will buy a lot of gas ;)
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    How about purchase price? You'll save thousands buying the smaller SUVs and that will buy a lot of gas

    And if you only need the cargo capacity you can buy or rent a small covered trailer for a lot less than the price difference between the large and small SUV/CUV. Some of the small CUVs tow just as much as some of the large ones.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The average small CUV will haul 2.3 kids and luggage for the weekend trip to the beach without the need for a trailer. To some, the $35,000 CUV is a joke, when a $25,000 is plenty.

    College fund, anyone? :)
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    vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    What world am I living? Real one. I want to see someone load the small SUV with 3 kids and go to the beach. The only one cooler will take all space behind second row.
    The better alternative to small/big SUV are VW passat wagon, volvo wagon, BMW 5 series (expensive!), Saab wagon, benz wagon (expensive!), audi A6 wagon, Mazda 5 and ect.
    The most of those cars have better MPG then any (not hybrid) small SUV, and more or equal cargo space behind second row.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    What world am I living? Real one. I want to see someone load the small SUV with 3 kids and go to the beach. The only one cooler will take all space behind second row.

    You've got a cooler that would take over 30 cu. ft. of space? :P ;)

    image

    This car isn't enough for 4 people and a weekend's worth of luggage? That's sort of funny, because we've been traveling to the gulf coast as long as I've been alive, with my grandmother in the car as well. We used to go in our 4-door compact sedan, which offered about 1/3rd the cargo space of the CR-V. We didn't carry a cooler, but 4 person's luggage plus a cooler wouldn't be a problem in any small CUV.

    The better alternative to small/big SUV are VW passat wagon, volvo wagon, BMW 5 series (expensive!), Saab wagon, benz wagon (expensive!), audi A6 wagon, Mazda 5 and ect.

    Then why do you drive a big CUV if the better alternative is a wagon? It doesn't matter, as it isn't really on topic anyway.

    HOST, while this topic is up, can we rotate some of the smaller alternatives onto the "Learn More" section? Vehicles such as the RAV4, Forrester, Rogue, and Vue... among others?
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