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Comments
To be honest the old one already got much better than the EPA figures suggested, from what owners reported here in the forums.
I would add the Forester to your list, which gets 20/26 even with AWD.
aviboy: any more info?
Hard to believe a trans alone would yield that kind of improvement.
MSN reports "engine retuned" for 2008.
Mazda5 (base price: $18,630): 21/27 mpg (city/highway)
Most minivans are maxi in size, but the Mazda5 deserves the name. It's the only European-style compact van sold in America, with zippy handling and room for six adults. When the Mazda5 was first released, its fuel economy was disappointing, barely better than full-size minivans. For 2008, however, a new five-speed automatic transmission and retuned engine significantly boost the 5's mileage. That makes this ultra-affordable hauler worth another look, especially for families on a budget.
- per MSN
I would have taken another look at it, but I still think I needed more space at the time.
Still, I'm sure it will help sales with prices for oil now.
Mileage was one thing that didn't necessarily turn me off, but didn't draw me to it, either.
The issue I had was all 3 rows are coach seating, i.e. all are tight if you use all 3 rows.
I also didn't like that they don't bring AWD to the USA, no power sliding doors, no 2nd row bench (for 5 passengers with leg room), plus I didn't like the arm rest for the driver.
I drove one at Mazda's Zoom Zoom Live event and it was actually very fun to drive. It's small and light enough to feel more like the Mazda3 it's based on than an SUV.
Trust me, at 6'5", I noticed that as well. The lack of power sliding doors or AWD really wouldn't bother me, since this is essentially no more of a van than the 1995-1998 Honda Odyssey was. Actually, that's not a bad comparison. Both had 2.3L ~150 hp engines, and had enough room for 6 medium to small size people, although under the new EPA standards the 1998 Odyssey had fuel economy of 19/24.
Despite the fact that the outback is a little more luxiourious and has some features the Forester doesn't eg. tilt sunroof, dual climate control you still prefer the Forester. We test drove the turbo Forestewr and liked it very much - only things stopping us are the niceities mentioned above.
Your comments are very important to us - thank you!
You can't get the third row in the Rav without the V6 in Canada which is very limiting. I wonder how many I4's with 3rd row they sell in the US. Willling to bet they are a rare find, and I'll bet that that the 3 row I4 suffers some hit in fuel economy too with that extra weight.
Even for your H6, premium fuel was recommended, so if you're looking to save on fuel then the base 2.5l is a good idea - they use less fuel, and cheaper fuel at that. It's designed for 87 octane. The turbos want premium.
I prefer the one big moonroof over my dad's twin moonroof (he has an OB Ltd). His doesn't open up over the front passengers' heads. The Forester's feels almost like a convertible in comparison.
Which model did you test drive? I thought the LL Bean was quite nice. Perforated leather seats, 4 settings on the seat heaters, and a soft place for your elbows to rest in the 4 seating positions we'll use most often.
The headliner is not as nice, and the dash isn't padded, but it looks nice enough to me.
With snow tires and TC/ESC, a 5 could compete with AWD.
It's been available on the Mazda3 for 2007 and 2008, but it hasn't been on the 5 yet, and won't be available on the 09 Mazda5 in Canada either [not sure about in the US yet, but I'd doubt it if Canada isn't getting it].
Not many new introductions in this market in a short while? I can't think of any besides the Forester.
Of course I'm kidding. :P
it's good to know we are still on the same wavelength.
OTOH Forester and CR-V sales have jumped significantly in the last couple of months. Maybe more are moving to the smaller class 5 passenger vehicles unless they truly require the 3rd row whereas even a year ago, customers were buying the bigger vehicles simply for the flexibility.
VW Tiguan
redesigned Pilot
Everyone seems to have an opinion on what they consider "best." This segment is getting so crowded most of those opinions can apply to a greater number of vehicles. Maybe the available alternatives are outgrowing the differing opinions.
If someone is looking to buy family car should consider a Mazda 5. This will be perfect car for now and future days fuel prices.
I had a Mazda 5 for a rental once. I was shocked that it only managed to get in the low to at best mid 20s for mpg, and that was with just me riding around in it. It seems that a vehicle so much smaller than the typical minivan/crossover should get well into the 30s for mpg. I guess it just proves that one can not simply judge gas mileage by size, or a book by its cover for that matter.
If you drive 15,000 miles/year and average 25mpg, you'll pay $2400/year for gas at $4/gal, as compared to $3000/year if you're driving something that only averages 20mpg, then $600/52 = $11.50.
On the other hand, I personally like the Mazda5 and if it saves me $10K on the purchase price AND $600/year, then it's a good buy to me for a lot more reasons than just MPG.
2007 Mazda 5, 4-speed auto: 19/24
2008 Mazda 5, 5-speed auto: 21/27
Count me in on that trend.
Our special order 2009 Forester arrived and we're picking it up today! :shades:
Forester sales were up 49% in April and up 66% in May. The fact that it gets 20/26 mpg with AWD can't hurt. Plus the new one is bigger. Unless you really need a 3rd row (we still have the minivan) something this size will cost less to buy and a lot less to own and operate.
Oops, I said the M word again.
We're slowly coming to the realization/rationalization that carting around all that space all the time is not the necessity we have believed and that comfort is not the exclusive domain of larger vehicles. I think folks are more widely beginning to pay attention to the small details of budgeting and issues like total cost of ownership. Those are not as sexy as space, comfort, driving dynamics, or maybe even cupholders, but I think they are moving up the list of priorities.
The minivan will continue to be our trip/weekend car, basically. It will be the one we take on longer trips, and when we need cargo capacity (149 cubic feet is bigger than my first apartment I think).
The wife doesn't like big vehicles. To be honest, I prefer smaller ones too. The Forester is actually under 180" long, so it's very easy to park and actually pretty compact on the outside, a foot or more shorter than those sedans. Plus, visibility is actually better. She sits up high, and has a panoramic view. Forester might win the "easiest to park" award if there were one.
Plus, sedans are useless. Sorry, but to us they are. You're lucky if you can squeeze 14 cubic feet through the narrow openings. She had a Mazda 626 a couple of vehicles ago, and went to a Legacy wagon before her new Forester. The wagon was just a whole lot better at gobbling up stuff from Costco, groceries, etc. She car pools so she'll carry 3 kids in the back once in a while, so we have extra booster seats in the cargo area, which would pretty much fill up the trunk of a sedan. American sedans don't get rear wipers, which compromises visibility. The C-pillars are wider, too, while wagons/crossovers have narrow pillars, usually.
So the criteria were fairly compact, yet still roomy, with great visibility. We wanted AWD since this is our only snow car. My work rarely closes, but she stays home so I'll be driving the Subaru when it snows. That ruled out a lot of options.
Accord - no wagon available, no AWD. She didn't like the CR-V's styling, visibility compromised by the D-pillar.
Camry - same. RAV4 has wrong-way swing door and poor visibility.
Matrix - I showed her one but she found it a bit too small. Visibility is awful. Toyota ruined it with this redesign. The window behind the C-pillar is a bad joke. Same for the Scion xB. Back to the drawing board, please.
Civic - no wagon. No AWD. I'd consider the euro 5 door model if it were sold here, but for myself.
Fit - no AWD and too small, but mostly a matter of not feeling "safe" on the highway among far bigger cars. I love the Fit - we helped my mom buy one.
At the auto show I showed her the Rogue, but she thought it was the ugliest car at the show. I actually kinda like it.
What else? I test drove an Outlander 2.4l CVT, but visibility is poor and the CVT feels totally disconnected (Nissan executes their CVT *far* better).
She test drove a friend's new Altima sedan, but felt it was too low to the ground and complained about having to back it up down a hill.
A while back we drove a Saturn Vue but that simply felt heavy, bulky, for some reason.
We shopped mostly in the compact crossover class. Sure they are glorified wagons but that's what she wanted - a wagon bodystyle with a higher seating position and AWD.
Bottom line: the Forester was roomy inside, and shorter than a Chevy Cobalt or Mitsu Lancer outside. It's a paradox - a Big Compact.
She's quite happy. Now if she'd only let me drive it ...
She's quite happy. Now if she'd only let me drive it ...
There was a car commercial not too long ago (I forget what vehicle it was marketing) that showed a couple, each progressively waking up earlier every day in order to be the first one to the new car that morning. Maybe you should just set your alarm clock to wake up nice and early, and sneak out for a drive!
Congrats on the wheels, at.
I think it was for the Mercury Mariner?
I did take a peek at a hybrid Mariner, but at $30k well equipped, after discounts, that interior just doesn't hold up well in that price territory.
We do have a Subaru Chase credit card, and applied $1600 Subaru Bucks toward the purchase. So our Limited model came out to about $23.4k, that's with the panoramic moonroof, heated and perforated leather seats, 6CD changer w/MP3 capability, PZEV engine (+5hp and greener), and a bunch of accessories.
I guess we could have had another Legacy wagon (2.5i Limited) for a tad less, but the Forester is smaller and just as roomy inside, plus she wanted something different.
That's it!
I guess we could have had another Legacy wagon (2.5i Limited) for a tad less, but the Forester is smaller and just as roomy inside, plus she wanted something different.
Nothing wrong with wanting something different. It's why my parents went from their second identical silver Accord (03 and 05) to an Atomic Blue Civic in 2007!
In terms of ownership costs, it really helps when a company has a credit card where you can earn points/credit. Subaru does, obviously, but so does BMW, VW, and Toyota is adding one per Automotive News, last I heard. Not sure if Ford and GM still have one nowadays?
So we got $1600 off the purchase price, but we can also use future credits to buy accessories or even to pay for service. It maxes out at $500/year, and she puts business expenses on that card, so over, say, a 7 year ownership period you're talking about a pretty significant $3500.
We've had the card for 4 years, so $100 went towards some accessories we wanted. Then $300 went to the body shop (insurance paid us so we kept the extra $300 in cash - ka-ching!). The $1600 remaining went towards the new Subaru.
If we had decided on something else, I could have used that to pay for the 60k mile service and to fix a dent on the door of the Legacy we sold.
We didn't, so basically it let us get a loaded up Limited model for the price of a mid-level model instead. :shades:
2002 Honda Odyssey EX (current)
Previous vehicles
1992 Ford Taurus L 4 door 300 cu in long-stroke
1982 Ford E150 Customized by Triple-E travel Van 351 cu ins V8
1979 Mercury Zephyr 6 cylinder 4-door sedan
1972 Datsun 510 4-door automatic
1967 Plymount Valiant 2-door sedan large-v6
1965 Morris 1100
1963 Austin 850 mini
The engine didn't make the car feel fast, but it was certainly just fine for its purpose. One thing I made sure to notice was the functionality of the "ECO" mode. It was on pretty often during our drive, which included city driving with speeds that eventually led to 60 MPH (a State Hwy in town). Very quiet, and honestly, HONESTLY, I felt no indication that the engine switched modes. It was completely impreceptable to me, and I even cut the A/C off so as to hear a difference. Overall, it is an impressive effort by Honda, in my opinion.
One thing I couldn't get used to was the perceived size of the thing. I guess the big flat hood and extra width made it feel really large. It could also have to do with the fact that the previous car we had driven was a Honda Fit Sport (which I'll comment on in the proper forum). Quite a difference! Haha.
In the end, I still don't love the styling (front-end), but the Pilot is worth a look anyway. I left impressed.
We spent 4 days with friends in Tucson that own an Ody and they let me drive it, I remember the ECO light but it only went on very seldom, basically when we were coasting to a stop at a traffic light.
Maybe it's using the 4 cylinder mode more often than it used the old 3 cylinder mode.
It's already "Acadia-Ville" in here today on my screen thanks to all the ads.
I agree, Honda is evoking memories of the Pontiac Aztek with that thing... UGLY! Some will like it, but, then again, some people buy Pug dogs, too....
You mentioned Variable Cylinder Management (VCM), where 3 out of the 6 cylinders sometimes shut down to save fuel. But do they save fuel? The Honda Pilot gets 16 MPG in the city, and the Mazda CX-9 also gets 16 MPG in the city, except the CX-9 does NOT have VCM. I don't understand that. Both vehicles are comparable in size, weight, and horsepower. That VCM doesn't appear to do much to save gas. Actually, I can brag because my Freestyle gets 27 MPG on the highway routinely, and 20 in city driving without the added expense and complexity of VCM ( for the Freestyle, its the CVT tranny that really causes the higher MPG compared to others).
However, the EPA highway rating for the Mazda CX-9, at 22 MPG (no VCM) is the same as the Pilot's 22 MPG. And their city MPGs are the same at 16. Why doesn't VCM have much affect anywhere? Very odd.
In fact, the Acadia, Dodge Journey, and Taurus X, all with similar sized V6 engines get better MPG than the Pilot, although the Pilot is the only one with VCM. The Odyssey, with the same engine/tranny as the Pilot, does seem to benefit from its VCM, besting all the above mentioned vehicles in MPG by 1 at least. Maybe the answer is in the extremely poor aerodynamics of the Pilot, while the Odyssey has better aero, and it shows up in the MPG numbers. Certainly the ugly box/weird shapes on the Pilot must be creating a high drag coefficient.