Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

ducktapeguy · November 2002

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5502&sid=178&n=156

Sounds like the Forester is getting the exact same engine as the US WRX. Where'd the 2.5T go?

eps105 · November 2002

This weekend, my brother and I headed out to the Penn State game, but I completely forgot he was parked in the turnaround in my driveway when I was backing up. I scraped the corner of my rear bumper on my '03 Forester XS along the entire length of his driver's door. I left a 2 foot long dent on his car and my bumper had tons of paint scraped off of it and was bashed in about the size of a cantaloupe, like someone had punched it.

As I sat there in dread looking at the damage to my prized, three month-old car, I remembered reading on this board about other people's experiences with the Forester's bumpers fixing themselves as they rebounded back to their original shape. Well, just as I thought that, "pop!" the bumper fixed itself!

Now all I have to do is get the bumper repainted. The bumper was soft enough that it did not take any paint off of my brother's car, it only dented it. So he can get that fixed relatively inexpensively at Dent Wizards.

Subaru definitely deserves the Insurance Institute's top rating for bumpers. I am very pleased.

Has anyone had to have their Forester bumper repainted? Does anyone have a feel what I reasonable price should be?

Thanks,
Elliot

rsholland · November 2002

It's sitting in Subaru's parts closet, probably waiting for the the '05 Legacy to debut. The engine exists. Subaru just needs to figure out what car to put it into.

Bob

kens · November 2002

Just as I suspected, the US-bound turbo Forester will be close to the JDM model. I didn't think Subaru would intro a new engine so soon.

I wonder if the engine will be tuned any differently. The link above implies the engine makes the same 227hp peak.

Ken

pnassmac · November 2002

Brooks11,

We've owned Honda vehicles for the past 10 years until this past August when I decided to purchase an '03 (Forester) X 5spd. Used to the smoothness of Honda engines/drivetrains (catastrophic failures/assembly issues aside), I also seemed to hear a "whizzing-whirring" noise of sorts coming from the vehicle and was of course concerned - though not concerned about it enough to take it in.

Three months and 7500 miles later no problems. I have nothing to support the next comment, but I think it has more to do with the AWD system. Frankly, I don't hear it anymore, so as far as I know the noise may have been break-in related or I'm just used to it. And considering that I've read another post similar to yours and my own experiences, I believe it to be normal.

ateixeira · November 2002

I agree and I'll share a suggestion Patti made to someone which worked - drive in a "figure 8" pattern a few times to break it the differentials a bit. Sounds crazy, but this was advice direct from SoA and it worked for one of the Crew.

The other thing is I'd check the ATF level now, even before doing the figure 8.

Love those bumper stories. IIHS does rank the Forester as the least-costly-to-repair among Small SUVs:

http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_smsuv.htm

Oh, by the way, 2nd least costly? The previous generation Forester! LOL

Also, not I did not say "cheapest", because it earned a Best Pick in IIHS safety ratings. Each test result by itself is a good accomplishment, but combining both is truly impressive.

Hmm, Spudster would be a roadster. Maybe if you had the Premium we could call it that! ;-)

Lowell: cool and thanks for updating us. Glad to hear it.

144 miles, crooked shifter, strange noises? I'd avoid it like the plague. It was probably in an accident of some sort, or abused in some way, to say the least.

-juice

rochcom · November 2002

I am happy the turbo is coming, but the 2.0 has a few problems. People on the WRX baord have complained of slow torque build-up. Perhaps the Forester version will be tuned differently. Also, the WRX engine is the Phase I engine, which is an interference type. If the cam belt snaps, the valves are pretzels. But I still want one.

chaynes1 · November 2002

If the WRX 2.0 liter engine is installed as-is in the Forester, there will be a lot of griping when the rev-happy engine needs to lug out of a mudhole. I had a WRX 5-sp before my auto Forester, and although I loved it for what it was, I grew tired of having to keep the engine north of 3000 rpm to get any power out of it. I never drove an automatic, so it may keep engine rpm's higher. Don't be dazzled by the 0-60 times. You will almost never use all of its acceleration potential once the new wears off. But then, I loved smoking those 5-liter Mustangs....

brooks11 · November 2002

First yes, the engine was cold. Early very cold morning. Took off just starting it. Secondly, haven't heard the whizzing sound again.

Seems to take some time to adjust to the sense of a new car, particularly coming from a manual VW. Different road feel and different engine sounds.

I thank you both for your input. It is most appreciated, particularly the advice on the breaking process. They surely don't mention that at the "store", do they? And couldn't find it in the manual.

Also very glad to hear that Pnassmac is doing fine at 7500 after initial whizzing sounds.

I may be a tad anxious being as my prior vehicle developed problems at early mileage. Am hoping not to go down that road again!

Loved the VW, problem ridden though it was and at the same time couldn't wait to get a more "reliable" car. Hope the Forester will be that. And I must say, am so very pleased with it. Couldn't believe what I was able to get into it today, where I went easily, and the visibility and it has real workable sun visors! Plus a smoother ride than I am used to. Feel like I have gone from a cocoon to a sunroom. Nice.

Brooks

brooks11 · November 2002

just reread your message. Have printed it out. Tells me more than the manual or salesmen.

Do mostly country and town driving, and not much freeway (we only have about 10 miles of it around here and it is 20 or more miles away). Will that give the RPM variety it needs for a good breaking in?

Interesting that it the TCU learns your habits, as you say. As you can gather I am not engine savvy.

Brooks

grahampeters · November 2002

G'day

For the previous generation of Forester Turbo, it used a different tune to the WRX. It was very, very popular here in Australia.

The rumour here continues to be that a 2.5l Turbo will be sold.

Cheers

Graham

ateixeira · November 2002

Brooks: Subies have lots of character, it does take time to get used to them.

For one, the "new car smell" stinks. Let the outgassing and burning off of the undercoating pass, and it'll go away.

2nd, gas mileage improves with age. Most people get 2mpg better at 10k miles than they did when new.

3rd, the sounds are very different, you'll hear a boxer growl. I can hear a Subie coming, they are so unique.

Patti gave us the hint about the figure 8. She works for SoA and has a lot of buddies that are the top Subaru regional mechanics, so I trust her. Not to mention it has worked for someone here at Edmunds.

Avoid cruise control during break-in. Being in town/country will actually be better for break in because engine rpm varies more.

Stick with us, we share good information and tips, and have the right contacts at SoA should any problems aries.

I hope Graham is right!

-juice

kens · November 2002

You're quite welcome. It's a shame salespeople don't do a better job in telling you how to treat your vehicle. I guess they're only incentivized to sell the vehicle to you and no more. I thought the owners manual had something on the break-in process, but I'm not 100% sure.

In any event, your mixed driving should be fine for the break-in process. The basic idea is that you want your engine to go through a range of rpms in it's early stages. Don't worry and enjoy.

One tip -- with any vehicle, you should be easy on it when first starting it, especially on a cold morning. My recommendation is to let it idle for at least a minute before driving off. Make sure you drive very gently for the next few miles. A good deal of engine wear occurs when the engine is cold and your engine oil isn't flowing freely yet.

Lastly, another popular practice is to change your engine oil and filter at the 1000 mile mark. Since your engine is going through the most break-in during this time, some folks (including myself) like to minimize the risk of having contaminants in the oil.

Ken

ateixeira · November 2002

Ken: there are some exceptions.

When we bought my wife's Legacy, the salesman gave us a complete tour of all the features, told us about the break in, even popped the hood and showed her all the fluids to check (marked in yellow). I was very impressed by their PDI, and they delivered a zero defect car. Even the tires pressures were correct.

I will be very, very likely to buy my next car from him.

I agree about taking it easy at first - it takes about 7 seconds for oil pressure to build. You should avoid putting any strain at all on the engine for at least those few seconds.

-juice

grahampeters · November 2002

G'day

As far as the Subaru Australia folk know, the Turbo should be released sometime in 2004. It was such a big part of Forester sales that absence from the new line up had to be clearly explained and time frame given for next introduction. Given how big the Australian market is for Subaru (third biggest in the world - surprising given we have only 19m people in a space about the same as the 48 states) its clear that something different has to be done to the engine to make it work right. If they are selling 2.0l turbos elsewhere in the world, there has to be a really good reason why it is not coming here.

Cheers

Graham

ateixeira · November 2002

Good point Graham, and I hope you're right.

-juice

p0926 · November 2002

Elliot- I recently got a $450 estimate from the dealer to repaint the rear bumper of my Forester. Hope this helps.

-Frank P.

kens · November 2002

juice,

That's a great dealer -- even the correct tire pressures!

Yeah, I know some folks at work who literaly crank the engine and then drive off giving zero time for any oil pressure to build. Makes me cringe every time.

Ken

eps105 · November 2002

Thanks Frank. I've gotten a couple of quotes. Just to have the bumper cover buffed and repainted is about $350, and a complete replacement is about $525. Both places were quick to point out that the textured surface of the Forester bumper would clash with the area being repainted, since it must be sanded smooth to blend the scraped paint. This means to make it look right, I need to replace the entire bumper cover.

So there you have it - even a cosmetic scratch on a painted Forester bumper will set you back $500+ dollars if you want it fixed right. If I had a Forester L or X, I would simply have an almost undetectably scuffed bumper. Sure gives some credibility to those that argue that the unpainted bumper has much more practicality, given the rugged nature of the Forester. I guess that's the price I pay for a 6 disc changer, sunroof, heated seats......

Elliot

lowellk · November 2002

New engine break-in info is in chapter 8 ("Driving Tips") of the 2003 owner's manual. It only takes up half the page, so it's easy to overlook.

burnsmr4 · November 2002

Bumper feedback:
I had the same sort of estimate on my bumper when I got it chipped after only 30 days of ownership (friggin' yellow post!). I dented the rear right quarter panel a little during the same incident, and to repair/repaint both, I was looking at about $850. $500 if I didn't do the bumper. I was surprised as hell about the bumper. By the way, I'm the fella who had the self-repairing bumper, although in my incident, the bumper took off more paint on the old Acura Legend than it had removed from itself.

MPG in a sluggish Atlanta commute:
Folks -- should I be concerned that I'm only getting about 21MPG in a sluggish 15 mile commute in Atlanta traffic? I do between 60mph and 70mph on the way to and from work, with some 10-20 minutes of bumper-to-bumper traffic once I get off the interstate onto surface streets. I only get about 300 miles (21mpg or so) per tank. The most I've ever gotten on a trip was about 375 miles (25mpg or so). Am I just driving the car too hard or what? Feedback is welcome and appreciated. I usually stick to speed limits or 5mph above in town, by the way.

Thanks,
burnsmr4

p0926 · November 2002

Burnsmr4- I'd say your mpg is certainly within acceptable limits if maybe a tad on the low side. I also live in Atlanta and my current commute takes me from Decatur down Ponce to the connector and then south towards the airport. I filled up last night and got a little over 25.5 mpg. For comparison purposes, I routinely got 27+ mpg on my old commute which was mostly on the perimeter driving south against the flow (where I could avg 70+ mph). On trips I usually get close to 30 mpg. I have a MT and try to drive fairly conservatively (at least most of the time) and use the A/C sparingly (tinting the windows helps a lot).

-Frank P.

pnassmac · November 2002

P0926,

What brand, color, shade of window tinting did you apply in your Forester? Also, was it professionally installed, which windows did you cover and (if you don't mind me asking) how much did you pay?

Any concerns about covering the defrost "wires" stuck to the back window?

jtm4 · November 2002

burnsmr4,

The 10-20 minutes of bumper-to-bumper traffic mixed with the 60-70mph driving will probably give you the equivalent of the city MPG rating. I get 22-23MPG around town with my 98 Forester. On the highway, I've gotten 25/26. No bumper-to-bumper traffic, though.

jtm4

ateixeira · November 2002

Elliot: I absolutely love the unpainted bumper and cladding for just that reason.

I was hit from behind, and needed a new bumper. $125 unpainted, that's it. 25% of the cost of yours. The front has some dings that would have needed repainting, and at least one of the doors, too.

21/25 mpg is not bad. Consumer Report's Expedition averaged 12. Their Tahoe got 13. You can't always match the EPA estimates.

-juice

ateixeira · November 2002

I had SolarGard 35% put on 7 windows for $170. It has not faded after 4 years, so far so good. Did it at New Again in Silver Spring, MD.

-juice

p0926 · November 2002

pnassmac- Edmunds has a whole topic devoted to window tinting and a search there should answer questions you haven't even thought to ask yet. The three basic things to consider are:

a. Type of tint (metallic or dyed)
b. Degree of tint (5%, 35%, 50% 90%)
c. Choosing a professional installer (only way to go IMO)

In my case I went with an installer recommended by the dealer, chose a charcoal metallic tint, tinted all but the windshield and kept the front windows lighter. I don't recall exactly what I paid but it was somewhere around $250. And no, the tint hasn't interfered with the defroster (nor the window mounted radio antenna for that matter).

-Frank P.

stever · November 2002

Thanks for the window tint reminder, P0926. Good reason to bring it out of the archives:

Window Tinting

Steve, Host

burnsmr4 · November 2002

Thanks for the fellow Atlantan feedback on my MPG. I've got an auto-tranny (thank you, wife, for being too scared to learn) and run the A/C a lot when it's warm. :-\ That must be why my mileage has been a little lower than what I see in here.

'ppreciate the feedback.

burnrsmr4

the_schlepper · November 2002

I got my seven windows tinted w/metallic for $200. The back 5 windows have 15% and the front 2 windows have 50% tint (This is the lightest tint before clear film). Check laws about having front windows done. Some states are starting to crack down on dark tint on the front windows. Definitely go w/pro install. They know how to get the bubbles out and their work area is clean (VERY important!!). I definitely notice Thomas to be much cooler than before which is a plus since I live in L.A. area.

ateixeira · November 2002

With my 35% all around (dyed, though, not metallic) I also notice the A/C cranks. Some days even the fan on "1" is too cold.

-juice

rleong · November 2002

To: Juice & everyone

It's been awhile since I checked out the Subaru Forester board and I can't believe I read over 1000 messages.

I have a 2000 Forester and I'm planning to do the 60k service by myself. With the help of Juice and other people I did the 30k service.

Does anyone have a recommendation on the type of spark plugs I should use? I'm thinking about NGK Platinum Plugs.

I appreciate any input about the plugs and other advice about my 60k service.

Thanks,
Raymond

pnassmac · November 2002

Thanks for all the advice. I'll plan and budget accordingly.

pnassmac

silver_subie · November 2002

Hello:

I am new to this message board...

Can someone suggest me how often various fluids (ATF, Steering, Brake, Coolant...) must be changed? I have 2002 Forester (4EAT) with 17K miles. After reading messages on this board, I am tempted to change oil on my own. Is it too difficult? If not, can someone list all the tools required for an oil change?

Thanks

tidester · November 2002

Welcome aboard! We're glad to have you here.

I am sure the other fine members will be more than happy to share their knowledge with you.

tidester, host

kens · November 2002

Raymond -- Use copper plugs if you're going to stick to the 30K interval. They conduct better than platinum and are cheaper too. The 98 Forester is the only model year that calls for platinum since it's more difficult to pull plugs on the DOHC engine.

silver_subie -- Your owner's manual should have a maintenance schedule that covers fluids. Also, you can find the same info on Subaru's website. As for oil changes, yes, it is easy compared to some vehicles. You really don't need any special tools -- just some wrenches and/or ratchet. I don't have the sizes handy. There's also enough clearance under your Forester so you won't need to use jackstands or a ramp.

Ken

brooks11 · November 2002

Juice, Ken and all,

I was glad you mentioned the "new car smell". It wasn't like any I had ever smelled. When I first got in it I asked the dealer what is that smell, smells like old fish wrappers. He mumbled something about the plastic wrappings which he had just taken off. After a week, it is a little better. I drive with the windows down regardless of the temperature. At the car wash they have a new car smell scent. Don't like scented cars to begin with, but that would be the last one I would chose. Am thinking of dabbing some eucalyptus oil on a kleenex and sticking it in one of the cup holders for the time. Glad to hear it will eventually go away.

And it does take some getting used to. The different sounds, and also the different feel as it changes gears. Haven't had the whizzing sound again. Have been letting it warm up a little first. It is odd going down hill, it seems to accelerate, I brake a bit, and it slows down, then accelerates. Sure different from driving a manual!

I do love the car, must say.

And thanks to the person who mentioned the break in info in the manual. I did miss it.

One question, the mechanic at the gas station, said his advice was to use a higher octane gas every 4 to 5 fill ups. I never did it for the VW, because shortly I traded it in. What is that about and what is your opinion on that?

Brooks

rochcom · November 2002

Be careful about using the maintenance schedule for Foresters at the Subaru site. I just wrote Subaru to check on what appeared to be an error in the camshaft drive belt change recommendations. They wrote back that the wrong recommendation was on the site (it was for a 2.2 liter engine). They say the other recommendations are correct, but I would suggest checking your owner's manual to confirm.

rochcom · November 2002

At one time this may have made sense since the higher octane fuels were the only ones that contained detergent. Detergent helps to keep carbs or injectors clean. Now, at least for the major brands, all fuel grades have detergent. Using higher octane then makes no sense unless you experience knock or excessive ping.

It is like complete tuneups. Once they were necessary, but now, the only thing you can do is change plugs. But Subaru still mentions that you need them in its publications. I guess the dealer service departments are hurting because Subarus are too reliable.

ninian · November 2002

Brooks,

Another reason NOT to fill up with premium from time to time is that the computer in your Subie sets timing to the fuel you're using. When you alter the octane in your tank this way, the computer adjusts to the new octane mix. When you start using regular again, it adjusts again. During the transitions up and down, you'll burn rich or run a little rough. Best practice is to pick one grade, stick with it, and let the computer take care of you.

paisan · November 2002

If you throw in 1 tank every once in a while it's not going to effect the computer at all. It takes about 500+ miles to actually change the computer, 1 tank isn't gonna do it.

-mike

p0926 · November 2002

mike- Good point but I can go almost 400 miles between fill-ups so the computer would be well on the way to compensating if I were to switch grades of gas.

-Frank P.

ateixeira · November 2002

For 60k I'd do it all. Here's a list for starters:

* complete wash and wax
* rotate tires, wax wheels
* bleed/clean brakes, check pads
* lube sway bars and suspension bushings
* oil and filter
* fuel filter
* air filters
* spark plugs and plug wires
* tranny gear oil or ATF
* diffy oil
* Techron in the gas tank (instead of 93 octane)
* coolant flush and refill
* wiper blades
* top off PS fluid

Some "maybes":

* alignment (check tires)
* timing belt and accessory belts (or at 90k)
* hoses (inspect closely, depends on age)
* throttle body service

An oil change is a good place to start for a Newbie. I think it's a 17mm drain plug. Get a ratchet set, an oil filter wrench, and a small flat screw driver (to remove the engine cover). Or tin snips to cut a hole in the cover for easy access. 5 quarts of oil, a new Purolator filter and a 17mm crush washer for the drain plug. Ramps make it easier but are not necessary.

-juice

paisan · November 2002

Wow I can go 400 miles with the SVX also (and over 300 with my Trooper) but I never let em go below 1/4 because then all the garbage in the bottom of the tank gets stirred up. Just my own feelings...

-mike

kens · November 2002

That's right, I think it's 17mm. I've never commited the size to memory since I just bring over my entire ratchet set.

If the dealer did it right, you should be able to remove the oil filter with your hand. Likewise, tightening by hand is a good way to prevent over-tightening the oil filter.

Ken

p0926 · November 2002

Yeah I've heard that argument but it doesn't make sense. If the fuel outlet to the engine is at the bottom of the tank, then what difference does it make how full it is? A more valid concern is that the fuel pump is at the bottom of the tank and the fuel in the tank acts as a coolant for it. So running on an almost empty tank increases the possibility of the fuel pump overheating and burning out.

-Frank P.

paisan · November 2002

an empty tank will allow more condensation to form over-night in your tank. That is a reason why you generally don't like to store gas tanks empty, you store em full, for instance in boats.

-mike

paisan · November 2002

If you run it dry the floating debris is sucked in, whereas if it's full you don't suck in the floating debris.

-mike

p0926 · November 2002

True but I'm certainly not advocating that anyone run it dry!

-Frank P.

ateixeira · November 2002

They overtighten everything, so bring an oil filter wrench. If I'm wrong, I'll pay for it. ;-)

But yeah, only hand tighten.

Actually, Frank, the fuel pickup is at the front of the tank, not the bottom. There's a 2nd fuel filter under your back seat, too.

-juice

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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