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'06 330 vs '07 328 or 335
I thought for sure I'd buy a 5-series--but after seeing the '06 and '07 3-series cars--I'v had a change of heart. I think I can fit my "stuff" in the 3--and get (2) sets of golf clubs in the trunk--so I'm good. My dilemna/question--I can buy a fully loaded '06 330i (18k miles) for $35k. The car looks beautiful. Clean carfax, etc..
Last weekend I drove the '07 328i and the '07 335i. Both are wonderful cars--especially the 335i. Is there enough difference in the '07 models to justify the additional $$$? The 328i with options that I want--Premium, Sport, Cold Weather, NAV--is just over 40k. The 335i with the same options $49k. My new car budget is 40k max--so the maxed out 335i may be out of the question.
Any advice, opinions, etc is welcome.
Thanks in advance!
Last weekend I drove the '07 328i and the '07 335i. Both are wonderful cars--especially the 335i. Is there enough difference in the '07 models to justify the additional $$$? The 328i with options that I want--Premium, Sport, Cold Weather, NAV--is just over 40k. The 335i with the same options $49k. My new car budget is 40k max--so the maxed out 335i may be out of the question.
Any advice, opinions, etc is welcome.
Thanks in advance!
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Regards,
OW
Thanks!
Go with your heart!
Regards,
OW
If you drive low miles, lease that 335i.
If you really are a "driving enthusiast", the manual transmission is the only way to go with the 3 or even the 5. If you don't find the automatic transmission offensive to your driving preferences, then you really shouldn't find the non-sport package suspension and standard wheels and tires offensive either. They are still better than 90% of the other vehicles out there in terms of handling and will save you a lot in future tire replacement. Which, frankly, is more than I can say for BMW automatics, which are only average in my opinion and could cost you a lot in repairs if you plan on keeping the car many years.
As a sidebar, a business associate of mine bought his wife a used M3 convertible last summer for her birthday, with an automatic transmission, of course. What he was thinking is beyond me. Not only doesn't she know the difference between an M3 and M&M's, she's managed to bend 3 out of the 4 19" rims in less than 6 months. She doesn't like the car because it's "too stiff", he doesn't like driving a "girlish" slushbox sports car and so they are now looking at a big loss to sell it in the dead of winter. Dumb is as dumb does.
I got it kind of backwards on my first BMW. Given the fact that I bent 5 BBS wheels on my 1995 Passat due to the crappy NYC metro area roads, I didn't really want to tempt my fate when I ordered my 1999 328i back in the fall of 1998. That car was ordered with Xenon headlamps, HK audio system, PP and a 5-Speed gearbox. As the handling was the best of any car I'd ever had, errr, except maybe my 1979 Scirocco, it was certainly good enough. Good enough that is until I swapped cars with another TownHaller for a couple of days. He had (still has I think) a 2001 325i SP 5-Speed, and while I missed the torque of the 2.8 liter mill in my car, I fell in love with the SP in his. This happened a few months before I ordered my 530i, and needless to say, I ordered that one with both the 5-Speed and the SP. Can you say "nirvana"? Sure, I knew you could. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
It sounds like you're squarely in the camp that says go with SP and you won't be disappointed, correct? I'm in upstate NY and put snows on all 4, so I haven't yet bought in to the xi requirement.
Great choices, I couldn't agree more. ;-)
"The problem with testing a SP-equipped BMW, especially the 5, is that dealers rarely have any 6-sp versions - it seems you have to order one to drive one (which I did with my '02). I'm wondering how fun the paddles would be on the sp trannies."
I was able to test a 5-Speed 1999 328i and a 5-Speed 1998 528i back in the fall of 1998. The only problem I had with the 5er was that the older engine felt significantly slower than the 1999 328i, so I opted for that car. Fast forward to late 2001 and I didn't even bother driving a 530i, I was sure it would be fast enough for my needs/wants/desires. In the end I ordered both cars (the 530i via the ED program) so that I wouldn't have to have "almost" the perfect car (for my perceived needs at the time).
"It sounds like you're squarely in the camp that says go with SP and you won't be disappointed, correct? I'm in upstate NY and put snows on all 4, so I haven't yet bought in to the xi requirement."
Yeah, I'm squarely in the SP camp, and then some. ;-) I live in southern New Hampshire, and area that is no stranger to deep snow either (my first winter with the 530i we got 114" of snow in our town) and as such I purchased a a separate set of winter tires for the 5er and had no problems at all.
The above said, if anything, I'm even more in the severely bigoted manual transmission camp than I am in the SP camp. No slushbox, SMG or even DSG(ish) tranny need apply, regardless of the number of gears, flippie thingies or no, for duty in any of my cars. Gimme three honest to God pedals under my dash or sell the car to somebody else. ;-)
Let us know how you make out. FWIW, Prestige BMW in Ramsey, NJ stocks (or used to stock) manual transmission equipped 5-Series cars. The salesman who sold me my 328i told me that literally 50% of their 3-Series cars and 25% of their 5-Series cars were sold with a manual gearbox. If you happen to be down in that neck of the woods, you might want to give them a try.
Best Regards,
Shipo
As someone who has owned (and lived with) both the 3 series and 5 series sedans, can you provide your impressions on the differences between them (with comparable engines)?
I know the 5 series is a little larger, but the weight with the 6 cylinder is about the same. I curently own a 3 series and in the back of my mind have been toying with the idea of a 5 series.
My assumption is the 5 series is a little smoother, a little quieter, and a little less harsh, but a bit less agile and quick. Can you elaborate on this, especially on the degree of differences?
Thanks
Bruce
In my case, given that the 328i had the regular suspension and 205 section width tires while my 530i had the SP with the 235 section width tires, the 5-Series was able to run away and hide from the smaller car in pretty much every driving dynamic. It had better acceleration, better braking, and better handling both at the limit and in the transients. The 3er on the other hand got better gas mileage (slightly, and in spite of the fact that the 5er was EPA rated higher, that said, both cars were able to exceed their EPA ratings), and had slightly better sight lines for driving in congested area (read NYC).
Interior wise, there wasn't much difference between the E46 and the E39 in leg room, however, the extra width of the 5-Series was both noticeable and quite appreciated by me and my family. The instrumentation and controls, for cars both were very good; however, there were two things that kind of pissed me off on the 328i that had been done much better on the 530i. The first was the thirty-seven degree OAT "ding", on the 3-Series, the display would change from whatever you had it set on to the temperature, and you then had to serially scroll through the various settings to get back to where you wanted it to be. This would of course happen EVERY damn time I started the car in colder weather. GRRRRR. On the 5-Series, there was enough extra display space between the straight ahead display and the radio display that the OAT, the clock and a few other things could all be displayed at the same time.
The second and somewhat less irritating thing was the climate control, I like it cold, my wife likes it hot. The E46 had only one zone while the E39 (and E60 and E90 IIRC) have dual zones. The other interior differences that I appreciated in the 5-Series all had to do with the SP seating, the SP steering wheel and the SP shifter so they they're not really relevant.
Relative to the current E90 3-Series and E60 5-Series, they are very close in weight (thanks to extensive use of aluminum in the 5er) and so their performance is very similar. That said, the extra width and leg room in the E60 is VERY noticeable. I haven't spent enough time with either car to be able to comment on their relative merits in the driving, handling and ergonomic departments, however, were it that I liked both cars equally well (I don't), there is one factor that would tip the scales in favor of the E60, at least for me. And what do you suppose that single factor is? Oddly enough it's a spare tire well. The E60 can accommodate a jack and a full sized (front) spare tire while the E90 doesn't even have room for a space-saver doughnut spare. Like RFTs or hate'em, having a spare tire is an extremely valuable bit of insurance in my mind.
The only other potential point vis-à-vis the two current models that I can think of is if you happen to be a hater of the iDrive system (personally I could care less either way, however, I probably wouldn't pay extra for it), the 3-Series can be had sans iDrive, not so the 5-Series. Oh, one more thing, metallic paint is "free" on the 5-Series.
Hmmm, looking back over this post, I'm not sure if I was much help. Sorry about that.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Having had (generally) the same the 2 vehicles as Shipo, I feel his assessment of the differences in the last generation 3 and 5 is spot-on. I can add a couple other comments - I felt that in the 3 you sit closer to the floor (almost ON the floor)- which for me became uncomfortable on long drives. With the old and new 5, I feel you sit higher off the floor which, again to me, is more comfortable. I remember reading somewhere that the interior of the current 3 is not much smaller than the old 5 - and I agree. The current 5 has much more space than the 3's and the old 5. Driving dynamics...haven't driven the current 3 yet, but I always felt the old 3 was more fun to drive, more athletic, and the 5's more composed but still fun, especially with the manual (and per Shipo, the SP).
Lastly I'm finding the new interiors more offensive than the exteriors, althought I have to admit the exteriors have grown on me. If it weren't for the great driving dynamics, I'd be looking hard elsewhere. I have to admit the freshened E-class in with the sport look (not really a SP) has caught my eye, but lack of a manual will probably keep me from getting serious. Hope this helps.
Thank you both very much, your information is very helpful.
I currently have a 2006 330Xi. The primary reason I am looking at the 5 series is to eliminate what I call the "cringe factor"; i.e., not having to cringe in fear of a hard hit when driving on less than ideal road surfaces. My car rides and handles very well, but there are unavoidable rough spots on the roads in my area that can cause the car to feel like it has hit its limit.
Thanks to the information in this forum, I replaced the original Bridgestone RFTs with Continental RFTs, and that helped a lot. But there are still spots where the car can lose its composure. In contrast, our 2006 X3 may get bounced around in those same spots, but it does not lose its composure or suffer a hard hit. I would like that capability in a sedan.
Thanks
Bruce
2006 330xi: - 225/45 R17 --- Sidewall Height: ~3.95"
2006 530xi: - 225/50 R17 --- Sidewall Height: ~4.45"
2006 X3: ----- 235/55 R17 --- Sidewall Height: ~5.10"
As you can see, the 530xi doesn't quite split the difference between your two cars in terms of sidewall height (and ride compliance). Another thing to keep in mind, you 330xi is running RFTs, tires that are known for their non-compliance when encountering rough roads. I find myself wondering if simply mounting a set of GFTs on your car would solve many of your complaints.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I have the 2006 330xi and switched to the conti's as you may know. I love the difference but with only 3K miles, we will see as they wear.
I also agree the suspension damping is extremely tight and transmits the real bad bumps, well, really bad! But the handling, IMO, is better than the two 5'ers (2006 Non-SP) that I drove on both occasions for a couple of hundred miles. The ride however, was much better than my 3, as you would expect.
Go with your heart on the next one. I would guess a 535i-SP, 6MT could be your choice.
Regards,
OW
Actually, our X3 has the (non sport package) 18" wheels and I think the tires are 50 series aspect ratio (Turanza EL42 GFTs), so that should be more like the 5 series. I know its a combination of factors, and I do believe the RFTs are a contributing factor to the hard hits. I've thought about GFTs, but so far nothing more than that.
There are other reasons that I would want the 5 series. Although not critical, they would be nice to have and could sway a decision. One is it could be an excuse to get the twin turbo engine (harder to justify trading for a 335Xi). Another is the extra room; my Mother-in-law, who spends about half the year with us, would better fit in the back seat and we wouldn't always have to take the X3. And at this stage in my life, I would appreciate the higher seating and easier ingress / egress.
Thanks
Bruce
I think you are the specific person who first referred me to the Continental RFTs, so I owe you a personal thanks! Yes, they are definitely better than the Turanza EL42 RFTs.
Ironically, our X3 has EL42s, but they are GFTs.
Each has their own priorities and preferences- if I got a 5 series, it would be a 535Xi with AT (I really like that it's a 6 speed AT), fold down rear seats, satellite radio, and any audio upgrades available. Not sure about the SP option, as it doesn't change the suspension, but I would like to do a test sit in the optional seats.
Thanks
Bruce
I am glad I could help re: Continentals.
My neighbor just got a 2007 silver-grey metallic 530xi...looks good. You are correct about the xi SP not having sport tuned suspension. Rather, it is tuned for the x-drive. I still wonder what that is because the 330xi handles fantastic.
But, oh those seats! Worth it IMO! Whatever you decide, I wish you great fun and satisfaction.
Regarding 6AT, go for it. I am an automatic guy but can drive a stick. Since I've lived in the NY/NJ area all my life, traffic dictates (prefer leg workout in the gym). On my dream weekend car, it will be MT, so I can still talk to the really advanced enthusiasts and relate!
Regards,
OW
I've owned my share of manuals and RWDs in the past, and appreciate what each of those attributes has to offer. Its just that my own personal preferences now are AWD and AT.
If BMW did not have AWD, then I would have purchased a different brand.
If the BMW AT was not performance oriented, then I would not have opted for an AT. Not saying it has the same performance as a manual, but its definitely at the other end of the spectrum from the 4 speed AT I had in a 98 Accord V-6!
But this is just me. YMMV
On the BMW AT, I've noticed that my current 6 speed AT is more responsive, and comes closer to approximating a manual, than the 5 speed ATs in our current X3 and previous '01 330Xi. There are different engines and vehicle weights involved, but I definitely notice the difference the 6th gear makes.
Thanks
Bruce
I have found this transmission to be the best yet. Based on some of the reviews so far on the 335, the tranny seems to be the same from '06.? Is it the same in the 5 series?
Regards,
OW
I don't know if the AT for the 335 / 535 is same as the 06 330. I thought I read where the AT in the 335 was changed to shift more quickly. And the BMW web site info on the new 5 series talks about a quicker shifting AT and a sport AT.
The big question I have, and this should really go in the 5 series forum, is whether the standard tires for the new 5 series will switch from GFTs to RFTs.
Thanks
Bruce
Best Regards,
Shipo
Do you know anyone in BMW that you could advise a slight change in the trunk of the 3'er design to fit a spare? You steered Merc the right way on the MT in the CL series(?), even though you got no respect!
Regards,
OW
I haven't taken a close look at the construction of the E90 trunk, trunk floor and the components mounted beneath said trunk floor, and as such I have no idea of just how large the reengineering task fitting fitting a spare tire well would be. One would think that if it was a trivial task, it would have been done in the first place. Then again...
Personally I hope cooler heads prevail and spare tire storage remains part and parcel of future car designs, regardless of whether RFTs are speced for said designs or not. The fact is that it is just too often that I find myself driving in an area where there is no local availability of replacement RFTs. Said another way, if I cannot find a replacement tire within a matter of a few hours and/or a few dozen miles, I don't want that kind of tire on my car, UNLESS I have a spare.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I tend to agree given they've also gone to RFTs on the X5.
If they do switch to RFTs, do you know if there is anything in the 5 series that would make the car less susceptible to the hard hits I occasionally experience in the 3 series?
BMW changed the design of the front suspension of the X5 to compensate for going to RFTs. Is anything analogous to this plausible for the revised 5 series?
Thanks
Bruce
Built into the nature of the 5-Series beast, there is slightly more sidewall in all tire sizes, and that said sidewall differences can absorb road hazard shock better than can the tires on the 3-Series. Will it be enough for your tastes? Unknown. You might have to talk your dealer into letting you take an extended (i.e. over night) test drive.
"BMW changed the design of the front suspension of the X5 to compensate for going to RFTs. Is anything analogous to this plausible for the revised 5 series?"
I've been hearing about these so called RFT tuned suspensions from BMW and other manufacturers, and other than the Odyssey PAX suspension (which has to deal with the massively porky 75 pound PAX wheel and tire assemblies), I've never seen any concrete evidence to suggest that suspensions have been in any altered. This isn't to say they haven't, I've just never been presented with any good evidence to the contrary. Anyway, it's a pretty safe bet that ANY 5-Series, RFT equipped from the factory or not, will handle and ride better with GFTs of the same size.
Hmmm, here again, I'm not at all sure I've been much of a help.
Best Regards,
Shipo
That 5-series in NJ is now for sale for $17,500..
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Yes, you are very helpful. I had not thought about the 5 using a different sidewall height compared to the 3 for differentiating it's ride quality with RFTs.
I read a road test on the new X5, and it may have been at Edmunds, saying BMW switched from struts to unequal length a-arms(?) specifically due to the RFTs. They said this is the first time BMW has not used struts in many years, and it was successful in providng a smooth ride despite the RFTs.
Anyway, probably now need to sit back and see what is actually on the new 5 series when it comes out.
Thanks
Bruce