Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
What Are Your Thoughts on the Return of the Taurus/Sable?
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
While the new 3.5L V6 producing 263 HP is a big improvement over the Five-Hundred's 3.0L V6, especially matched with Ford's 6-speed automatic, the engine is not the jewel that many have made it out to be. First of all, it's difficult to tell all of those horses are present and accounted for. The Taurus has a damped throttle and power delivery always feels muted, as if the driver is always being protected from the inertia of acceleration. While the Taurus will get up and go when the pedal is mashed, it clearly prefers a more measured approach for getting from Point A to Point B. Secondly, this powerplant is not a smooth operator like some V6 engines with which we've become particularly smitten.
And it could be that we probably just are not pedal mashers. If we were, I'd buy a Mustang GT like my brother owns, but I wouldn't put a supercharger on it. We're just a couple of 50 year olds looking for a solid car that performs well, gets decent mileage and is safe. We don't really even care about the resale as we usually give our "old" cars away. The safety is what us look at the Taurus in the first place.
If you like more spunk from almost no pedal movement, I can see where the Taurus is not for you. For myself, I get used to whatever tip-in setup the vehicle has, and then I don't notice it anymore. I drove a new Jaguar, for example, that seemed too ready to spin the tires, but it was only a problem a short while.
Anyway, as much as a car costs, you should get one you are comfortable with. And I certainly don't want to sound like I am a big fan of Ford's execution of the Taurus. My main objection to it is that it looks fat/clumsy/uninspired.
The Taurus written about by Autoblog was an AWD model, and while I have not driven an AWD Taurus, I definitely found AWD 500s to be much slower than the FWD models. The same is true of AWD Lincoln MKZs vs. the FWD version. In an earlier drive of a FWD Taurus Autoblog said:
The extra sixty horsepower that comes with the new 3.5L Duratec now motivates the Taurus in a manner more befitting its position at the top of Ford's sedan lineup (ignoring the geriatric Crown Vic). Stepping on the gas now brings a prompt but much quieter response from the engine room.
Throttle tip-in does make a huge difference in "feel" as Gregg says. I found the Taurus to feel very natural in that regard but obviously others can disagree.
In any case, the Taurus is apparently not for you. The Malibu does look great and the 3.6 engine is getting great reviews. It might be just what you are looking for.
We acquired a new Limited AWD about a month ago. My first impression based on a test drive was the same as your wife -where did all of the horse power go. Then we drove another with over 2000 miles on the car and it was a totally different experience. It isn't a hot rod - don't get me wrong. But there are horses alive under the hood.
Our own Taurus started out the same way - sluggish. We made a round trip between Colorado Springs and Denver three weeks ago and the poor car struggled to keep up with traffic going up Monument Hill. The 6 speed was downshifting all the way to 3rd and maybe even 2nd. Last week end we did the same trip again. The car had another 300 miles on it and it easily kept up with traffic without having to resort to grabbing lots of gears in the hunt for torque.
Taurus in my mind has always been an unpretentious honest car. It doesn't pretend to be something it isn't. It is a comfortable, roomie, four door transportation device. And because it offers AWD, it really satisfied our requirements.
New Malibu looks great.
If u want to stay in the Ford family, here's a thought - find an '06 Lincoln LS. They're maybe the best car Ford has ever made, or will ever make. Used one probably cheaper than a new 500/taurus whatever. Has a Jaguar V8 and rides and handles like a Bimmer. Also, 5 star crash rating all round.
Just MHO.
It's not a Mustang, but it's got good snap.
Yes, and isn't that a kick in the butt! That is the reason I am still driving an LS. I want to stay in the Ford family and they have had nothing that fit my needs like the LS. I have been waiting for 2 years for the introduction of the MKS and for what? I will be going from a sophisticated RWD chassis with one of the smoothest V8s on the planet to a Taurus based, V6, FWD or AWD semi-appliance.
To be fair, however, the Taurus does blow away the LS in interior room and trunk space. The new Taurus is just as quiet and rides well, too. I would prefer a Taurus to Lincoln's own MKZ.
Watch for GM's push on the Malibu. They will show Ford how the Taurus should have been promoted.
Someone on another site suggested Ford place a Taurus in every mall in America so people could see it. That would at least show that there is a new Taurus but I doubt if its looks would sell it. I would like to see every owner of a 2000 - 2005 Taurus or Sable offered dinner for two at their favorite restaurant just for taking a test drive in a new one.
Designers can make cars both roomy and proportionally attractive. They just did not achieve that with the 500/Taurus. It will be interesting to see the interior volunes on the Lincoln MKS. It is completely based on the Taurus, but it doesn't look anywhere near as dumpy.
My problem with the Malibu is that Chevy just seems to be trying to build a better Camary. But what they don't seem to address is why anyone who wants a Camary wouldn't just buy a Camary. Well I guess the Malibu is cheaper.
Mark.
3.9, 4.1, 2.7, 4.0, 3.2 and the Russian judge says 6.0 !!
Whoa, tough crowd.
Personally, I dont see any relationship between the Camry and the Malibu. The view pictured here is only slightly simlar. The rear view and the interiors are dramatically different. The grilles part company too in a head on view. I'm hoping the Malibu is a good vehicle, just for domestic sake. GM needs all big hits.
Oh! One more thing, Ford engines seem to be 'tight' when new. I know my LS seemed more sluggish when I test drove it than it became after several thousand miles.
First, Toyota, Honda, etc. are not paying American wages. In fact anyone familar with the Auto industry knows that Ford and GM pay over $20 more per hour for labor than Toyota and Honda do in their American factorys.
2nd, Toyota and Honda do not have the legacy costs that GM and Ford have. Both companies have to pay millions per year in retire health benefits.
3rd. The Japanese government artificially keeps the Yen trading low against the $. This makes it cheaper for Japanses companies to ship components here and for American to buy Japanese built cars. Given the Japan companies a $4,000 to $12,000 advantage per vehicle!
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-automakers-complain-yen-misaligned/stor- y.aspx?guid=%7BEEF38E52-5095-4EF7-A534-A2B8907F7366%7D
Ford is NOT moving production over seas. Ford has not opened a foreign factory in AGES. The only US sold FLMs not built here are Edge/MKX, and Panther Sedans (Crwn Vic, GMQ, TC) which are built in Canada and Fusion/Milan/MKZ which are built in Mexico.
Ford is closing factories and this is a result of loss of Market Share AND being more effecient at the remaining factories.
Mark.
The Ford Fusion is the MOST RELIABLE mid-size sedan in this country and the Toyota Camry V6 is one of the lease reliable.
The Ford F-150 (V6) is the most reliable fullsize pick-up and the Tundra is one of the least.
Don't give up on Ford or underestimate their ability to "out toyota" Toyota. They did it before with the original Taurus. The Fusion is a HUGE hit and so is the EDGE and NEW ESCAPE!
I work at a large Ford Dealer in NJ we are not on a main highway but are part of a dealer group with a good reputation. (Try to find a Toyota dealer with a good rep)
At my dealer, we are turning Edges in less than 20 days!!! and the same with the new Escape!!!
That is so amazing that it is almost impossible to believe.
Mark
The Fusion is far from the top mid-size seller. The F150 is losing market share. The "New Escape" is clearly the old Escape with running improvements, and some different lines in the sheetmetal. Unlike when Toyota for example updates the RAV4 (each generation starts with new architecture), the "new" Escape has all ther same underpinnings, mount points, much the same glass, etc. I commend Ford for actually doing more for a change than the usual new grill/new rear styling and interior modifications, but they still don't get what Honda and Toyota have known for a long time about how to sustain heavy sales of a product.
Ford could use a huge hit like the original Taurus, the Mustang, or the original Explorer or like the F150. But somehow the Fusion had to really struggle to outsell the old Malibu, which was clearly an inferior car. Getting away from tons of fleet sales is a good thing, but then you begin to see where Ford really stands in the market.
A lot of it is that the suits at Ford don't get why their market share keeps shrinking. If they did, they would not have pinned hopes for salvaging the 500 by putting in a better engine and different grill and changing the name. It's not a car that most people would ever walk across the street to give a second look. Ditto the 08 Focus. Yes, it looks better than whst came before, but it looks too much still like the design issued in 1999 with some lipstick and filigree. Plus, they eliminated the hatchback just as hatchbacks are beginning to catch on again.
BTW, both Canada and Mexico are not the US, and the wage scales there are different. Ford and the UAW created this mess together, what with $78/hour packages and job banks.
The Edge is a good start, but where are the new iterations and new models for other niches? Toyota may be stalling momentarily in its relentless march, but Hyundai has Ford adn Toyota's backs. VW and Audi both are reinventing themselves and have too many new models coming to even keep track of.
Ford just has to get it together to be fast and first, or it will never be a major player again. What have they been doing? Well, trying to unload Jaguar and Land Rover for one thing. It remains to be seen whether that works out for them. It must be clear to some of the suits that they really don't know how to re-make a marque into a winner. After all, they invested untold billions in Jaguar, improved the quality, the products and their reliability. Sales as we all know have tanked. They can't sustain Jaguar with the XK8, and the Edge isn't going to save Ford's passenger car business.
I don't know the answers, but it is clear that Ford does not either. What are they even DOING with old things like the Ranger, the Crown Victoria, the Explorer, the Sport Trac? Where's the innovation in the latest Expedition? Where is their city car? Yes, I know, all coming, all coming. It's very telling that the suits thought that the US needed its own dull designs and that the stellar European Fords would not work here. What's so damnable is that people got paid really big bucks to screw up so badly. Let's see, 2004, the Year of the Car...sheesh.
I agree with some of your thoughts, but most recent quality rating have the American stuff on par with their competitors.
And by the way I do own a Ford and a Honda, so I own both.
There are American vehicles on a par with anything else in terms of quality, and that's good. But that quality came as a result of some people realizing that they could get a better product elsewhere, and so they did.
Now, American manufacturers are fighting to get their reputations back. There is good quality out there...and there are still models with serious quality problems. It goes beyond quality of course. Features, engine choices, mileage, resale are a few of the other things people look at.
The Taurus offers one engine. Competitors provide a choice of two or three. Why didn't they continue to offer the 3.0 liter and the gearing setup for those who want better mileage? Why doesn't the Fusion offer a sport suspension or a version with the 3.5 liter (which is becoming standard for the class anyway)?
You can get a decent and reliable ride with the Fusion. However, some people won't buy the Fusion, because unlike its competition, it does not offer traction control. Ford also skimped on sound deadening for the Fusion. The prop rod issue has been beaten to death. The point is that you can have stellar quality, but if you don't offer the features of the competition, you lose sales anyway.
I have owned more American iron than any other kind, but after 27 vehicles, I have also owned stuff from Honda, Subaru, Toyota, Mazda, Isuzu, VW, and Audi. Everything I have owned since the late 80's has been completely reliable, except for one really awful Oldsmobile, and minor irritations with a Mazda.
I would love for example to buy a new Ranger. I owned three of them and every one gave me great service, one to 177,000 miles when I sold it to a neighbor who continued to use it for years. Unfortunately, Ford doesn't make a new Ranger. They are selling an old one for new offering the same stuff my 98 had.
Here is a link to what I am picturing:
http://www.carpages.co.uk/ford/ford-ranger-08-08-05.asp
I also think that they should ditch the two-door Supercab, because, I don't see why anyone would want it. In my opinion, Ford should make a Crew Cab and a Crew Cab extended (like the Dodge Ram Mega Cab) for more cab room, but have the Super Cab for guys who don't want to spend so much on their truck.
As for the Taurus, I think it looks cool as it is very comfortable and spacious. Comparing specs between the Five Hundred and Freestar minivan, the Five Hundred had 129 cubic feet of cargo space, and the Freestar, 130.5. But, for 08, the Taurus contends with four other new players: the NEW 08 Honda Accord, the NEW O8 Subuaru Outback/Legacy (Outback= off-road station wagon, Legacy= all-wheel drive sport sedan) , the Toyota Camry, and the new Chevy Malibu. I have yet to sit in a Malibu. I don't overly care for Subaru, I had a 92 Silverado that blew chunks, so I will never buy a Chevy (not necessarily a GM) again, the Camry was nice, but I have brand loyalty to Ford.
And what about the Taurus X, people?
I looked at the Expo vs. F150. No comparison! F150 lot less money bigger engine and bigger towing capability. But, I digress...
The 08 Corolla will be largely a reskin and the Civic will still have better powertrain and dynamics.
The Rav4? You obviously haven't opened up the back of a Rav lately if you belive that this is a "best effort" The spare tire is STILL mounted to the hatch and the hatch still swings out to the passenger side. That might be great in right drive Japan but in the US it opens to the curb/sidewalk and creates a barrier. Plus the weight of the tire is annoying. That is so 1990.
(imagine paralle parking and you can't open the back hatch cause it will swing into the car behind yours.)
Mark.
I still think that the Taurus is a good family sedan, but, I'm not seeing your point.
My point is that people seem to assume that Toyota is some kind of charity out to make the "best" cars in the world. In reality, Toyota does not make the "best" in class in any segment it compets in.
Toyota makes the auto equivalent of Vanilla ice cream.
Mark
It's conservative, yes. I still haven't found something about it that would keep me from buying it like I have on the Altima (16 year-old's Altezza taillamps) or Camry (wart on its nose, looks too puffy). It's a clean design.
Truthfully, if its target audience (the old Taurus/Crown Vic crowd) cared so much about exterior design, why does the slab-sided yawn-box Avalon sell so well? Why do I see loads of rounded LeSabres loading the roadways?
People aren't looking for an "exciting, groundbreaking" design in their large cars most of the time. Those type of designs get dated quickly, like the 300 has to me.
Its problem is that it is worse than plain. It is both anonymous and odd-looking. The slab sided Avalon sells so well because the current iteration, definitely not groundbreaking or exciting, is tasteful and looks like understated luxury. There is nothing luxurious looking about the Taurus, but it is ostensibly competing in a group of cars that purport to offer a bit more than your average Sonata.
But the plain jane Sonata look is less off-putting than that of the Taurus. It just doesn't hang together as a either plain car or an understated aspirational car. Even the blue hair crowd, so enamored of Buicks, isn't flocking to the thing.
To me, the Taurus is actually the classier looking car. The Avalon just comes off as awkward.
I'm not knocking you for your view, just presenting mine. Thanks for actually having a decent conversation as opposed to beating me in the head with your views (a common occurance here these days!)
Well of course some people will like (or not like) any styling out there. But I think the marketplace has spoken on the Taurus/500. I don't have a big problem with the headlights or tail lights. Its the way the whole thing comes together. The side view and 3/4 rear view especially don't flow well. The rear window is clumsily drawn and placed. The wheelbase looks too short for the height of the car and the long front and rear overhangs. The interior isn't a standout in any way. Like I said, plain is one thing, but adding awkward to anonymous is a real skill! It isn't the attention grabber like the truly awful Pontiac Aztec for example, but it does have vestiges of that: plain shapes drawn less balanced than they easily could have been.
Anyway, you like it. Most people don't. Consequently, Ford is not going to be able to market good numbers of Tauri until they do more than mess around with the front and back. It is the MIDDLE that crosses it off most people's list.
I'm not pricing them for myself, but instead my grandmother. A front-wheel drive SEL model is looking to be $22k AFTER all fees, taxes, and destination. That's Accord LX/Camry LE money.
I see what you mean by the tall but not long look, makes it kind of tipsy looking. But, at the heart of it is a very good car (not OUTSTANDING) at an even better price. It makes a very good value propsition, if more people knew it had the upgraded engine and interior trim over the 500 I think it'd sell marginally better.