2008 Scion Xb

dudleyr · March 2007

Yes mileage was my biggest concern. I actually went ahead and bought a stick shift Accord at EPA 26/34. About 5 mpg better than the TC. I looked at Camry as well (and actually would have preferred one - with trac/stability), but stick shift Camrys are very rare, and no dealer I tried could locate one without a sunroof.

I really prefer a hatch, and like the trac/stability, but I do a lot of long distance high speed driving (75 mph limit in SD, and nothing is close) and I feared the boxy shape would be noisy and use a lot of gas - especially with TC gearing.

I certainly gave up some versatility, but I do have a Sienna if I ever need the extra space.

Boy would I love a Camry wagon with a stick - never gonna happen though.

rwh · March 2007

I test drove a Matrix last weekend and generally liked it. If I bought one it would have the two things the original Scion XB lacked that I refuse to compromise on; cruise control, side impact and side curtain airbags.

I'm not in a huge hurry and would consider the XD as well as the XB, assuming I can get cruise control, traction control, 4 wheel ABS (preferably 4 wheel disk ABS), and all those air bags.

So the choice is, buy an end-of-cycle Matrix or a beginning-of-cycle Scion? And while cost is a factor, 20k for a Matrix or 17-18K for a Scion isn't the major consideration.

crazedcommuter · March 2007

Well it probably won't matter which car you do choose because it looks like they're both essentially the same car. From what I've read, the XD is a Matrix with a few changes. The sheet metal is a little different as well as the interior. The motor and tranny are straight out of the Matrix but I hope the suspension has been changed to eliminate the front end problems that have plagued the Matrix and Vibe. I would like to see the XD with a sportier suspension.
I hope they appear on schedule as I'm getting antsy to to take them out for a test drive. I now have an '05 XB auto and it's been a great commuter car but I need more power with comparable fuel economy.

nippononly · March 2007

EXCEPT xD is on the Yaris platform, which means it is very likely that the xD will be smaller and lighter than the Matrix.

rwh · March 2007

I realize this is a Scion XB discussion and have read the postings on the Matrix suspension problems causing problems with tire wear. But maybe this board attracts a more random collection of Toyota/Scion owners.

How serious are those suspension problems on the Matrix? Should a person be wary of purchasing one because of it?

Right now I'm undecided in purchasing the Matrix or waiting for the new Scions.

nippononly · April 2007

the price of the new model: $16,230 base price for the stick, $17180 for the automatic, including destination - an increase of about $1700 over the last 2006 models.

TOLDJA' the price was going to go up a lot!

:sick:

drfill · April 2007

While breaking the exclusive!

Here's the real pricing:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2007040318137

$15,650 is the starting price.

As you were.

DrFill

dudleyr · April 2007

I wonder if shipping is the diff between the two prices.

nippononly · April 2007

Yes, it is, and the Doc ought to be more careful what he posts, eh Doc?! ;-)

The number at the bottom of the sticker, the actual asking price, goes up $1620 for the stick and over $1700 for the automatic.

That, and the edgy looks and good fuel economy of the old model go away.

The xB's sales are going to drop, not rise, I think.

The new xD will be a better deal, I think. It gets a better equipment list than the xA, more power from the Corolla 1.8 plus high fuel economy like it had before, and I will bet its price doesn't rise as much as the new xB's.

If Toyota wanted to go head to head with the Element, they accomplished their aim by undercutting it in price, but the xB doesn't offer AWD like Element, and I am not convinced there will be a lot of cross-shopping between the two.

dudleyr · April 2007

A lot depends on gas mileage. If it gets tC mileage, then I don't really see the point. Cars that gets mpg in the 20's with lots of space are all over the place.

If it gets Camry mpg, then that is another story. 33-34 mpg on the highway with all that space and flexibility would be all alone in this country - until the jetta diesel wagon comes out in a year (less space, but way more efficiency.

robt2 · April 2007

I agree and am eagerly awaiting the mpg figures. Also I'm curious to see what has happened to headroom and backseat legroom. I don't think it's going to have 46 inches of headroom like the original, but I sure hope it's at least 40. Otherwise, despite the added space in other dimensions, it's going to feel cramped.

twain · April 2007

15,600 or 16,200 both are a steal for this car. I'm quite happy with that price. What did it gain, 55 hp? And it's bigger with more cargo space and it has cruise. And those center mounted gauges are cool. Can you tell I like it?

I predict the new xB will be a huge hit. Toyota did an excellent job of taking a cool car with limited appeal and increasing its market. Element and PT Cruiser and Matrix shoppers are going to gobble this thing up. As well as many who might have bought a small SUV/crossover.

alpha01 · April 2007

Toyota typically charges $650 MSRP for side curtain airbags on models where that is optional... so one could say that prices went up about $1100 comparably equipped....

~alpha

nippononly · April 2007

I like the gauges too! :-)

alpha: sure, it's not like the adjustment in price was outrageous given all the changes, it is just that it is now in the center of the price range of all the little people movers (especially since Scions sell at no-haggle sticker price, unlike models from other automakers). With the high-20s combined fuel economy I expect it to have, you could just as easily get PT Cruiser, HHR, Caliber, Compass, and others for the same money. And I bet you could get a Honda dealer down to within $1000 of the xB's new price on a FWD Element.

Ditto other rather useful and/or quirky vehicles like Rondo and Mazda5, and let's not forget you could get a Matrix for the same money and you wouldn't be that far off the base price of a FWD 4-cyl RAV4, which has weekend ads all the time now selling at $20K without options.

It used to be in a class of one, and now it will not stand out as much, that's all. Now it's in a class of many.

sra136 · April 2007

I agree that what it will come down to is the MPG.

It does have the Camry engine, but, what type of transmission will it be mated to. For me, it would either the 2008 xB or the new Matrix.

nippononly · April 2007

I am betting it gets the same transmission as the current RAV4 (4-speed automatic, rated 24/30 EPA in that model) and the 5-speed manual from the current Camry, if the new xB gets a manual (which I think it will).

719b · April 2007

if it is the same drive train as the rav4, it may get a little better mileage than the rav4 because the xb should be lighter.

sdricke · April 2007

I find no harm in charging a little more for a car like the '08 xB. It has room, it has style, it has POWER! Its gas mileage may be down a little bit, but hey, it is still better than any other comparably equipped small wagon (look at the Dodge Caliber's figures). As for the $2000ish price hike, it's one I'm willing to let slide. What does that amount to? $40 a month, maybe? I think I can ditch a couple of dates to make up for that.

schreftb · April 2007

Read all kind of nonsense, but nothing about the one piece of information am waiting on:
1. Driver's Legroom
2. Driver's Headroom
Previous research shows Xb had them all beat.
How about the 2008?

alpha01 · April 2007

I STILL think the xB is unique in its class, despite the 11% price increase. (The Caliber is jacked up hatch with a Fisher Price interior, the Element is an SUV with AWD capabilities). The xB remains an interesting - and highly functional - design exericse, IMO. Its just that now it will hit sixty in or under 8 seconds with a manual, and it'll fit even more stuff.

Regarding driver's head and legroom - the vehicle has grown, I think it stands to reason that there should definitely not be any reductions in these areas.

~alpha

robt2 · April 2007

I agree on all points, with exception of headroom. Yes, the xB has grown longer, wider... but also lower. Roofline is about 1.5 inches lower than before. Unless the seat is closer to the pavement than in the original model, there will be less headroom.

aatherton · April 2007

I don't think the $15,650 includes destination and prep, which will bring the price to $16,230.

alpha01 · April 2007

.... and the seat would be lower to the pavement if ride height was lowered, correct?

~alpha

robt2 · April 2007

I haven't heard that ride height has changed, only overall height. Roof is at 62" for the 2008 rather than 63 or so. Can't say I'm too worried. With 46" of headroom in the original, there's room to spare.

gillnetter · April 2007

Do you have any recommendations on a sun roof for the 2008 xB. The bigger the better.

dudleyr · April 2007

If you mean an aftermarket sunroof - I am not too crazy about them, but I don't know too much about the newest ones.

Kirstie_H · April 2007

A consumer reporter with a local television station in San Francisco (SF and surrounding residents only) is looking to interview consumers who are shopping for a new car and might consider purchasing gap insurance. If you are interested in speaking to the reporter, please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Monday, April 30, 2007 with your daytime contact info.

rafster · April 2007

I'm really excited about the new XB.

I have 4 cars I'm thinking about to replace my old crap excuse for a car 93 Mercury Sable.

1. 07 Mazda 3S Touring
2. 07 Subaru Impreza 2.5i
3. 07 Toyota Tacoma Access Cab 4Cyl
4. 08 Scion XB

I like all of them. My grandparents (in their mid 80's) just bought an 06 XB with 8K miles and couldn't be happier. They bought it for $15K out the door.

Come early may I'll test drive all 4 cars, and decide... although... it'll probably end up with the 3s and the XB head to head....

Rafster

nippononly · April 2007

You may need to decide before then whether or not you want a truck or a sporty car, as the Tacoma doesn't fit the list very well...

All the others will be fast fun drives, and the xB will have by far the largest amount of interior room. :-)

If you can wait until fall, the new Impreza will be out too, which has some significant suspension changes to improve handling.

drfill · April 2007

Very nice.

Better than the Banshee that is the Civic Si, or Scion tC. Was impressed by the Camry drivetrain in the tC as well. Should do very nicely in the x!

xB sounds like an awesome value. need to check the specs again on interior cargo room. I'm kinda in the market too!

DrFill

texases · April 2007

Yep, the old Xb, while interesting because of headroom needs (few cars have enough for me), was off the list because of all the things they fixed with the new one (safety items and power especially). Anyone know when they'll be in showrooms?

nippononly · April 2007

Full stock will be 2 months from now, with the first ones trickling into dealers in about a month.

schreftb · April 2007

I hear all this nonsense, when what really makes a difference to me is driver's headroom and legroom. My research told me that THEY BEAT ALL THE COMPETITION IN THIS AREA.Is this still going to be true?

robt2 · April 2007

Edmunds announced that they would post full xb specs by tomorrow. I'll believe it when I see them. I don't understand why it's taking so long. Meanwhile, the best revenge is...look at other cars.

big_guy · April 2007

A Lincoln Navigator may have more driver head and leg room but you can buy two xB's for the price of a single Navigator and you get twice the fuel economy in the xB. Interior size definitely plays a part in making the decision but it isn't everything. The Navigator has the interior room but doesn't come close on the other criteria I used to purchase my xB.

I own an '05 xB and I purchased it for interior room, fuel economy, toyota reliability, price, and unique styling. I love driving my xB and do not regret purchasing it at all.

texases · April 2007

Ignore him, he's way off as far as '06 Xb, it has much more headroom than Navigator, and no one knows what the '08 has. I know of no other vehicle that competed with the '06 on headroom.

aatherton · April 2007

Full xB specs have been out for several weeks in PDF form which I and others have downloaded. They were copied and pasted here: http://www.scionlife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=163737

719b · April 2007

everyone has seen what you posted many times. what it doesn't tell us is interior room, head and leg room.

big_guy · April 2007

Looking at the specs that are shown here on Edmunds for the '08 xB, the head and leg room has gone down considerably in all but one location.

'02-07 xB, Front Headroom: 46.1", Front Legroom: 45.3"
Rear Headroom: 45.7", Rear Legroom: 38"

'08 xB, Front Headroom: 40.1", Front Legroom: 40.7"
Rear Headroom: 41.2", Rear Legroom: 38"

texases · April 2007

They went from outstanding to average - why????? This was my hope for a fully developed car that would work for me. Now, I have no reason to put up with the odd looks. Bad move, Scion.

bamacar · April 2007

I notice that the Xb gets 28/22 for either the auto or manual. That's kind of dissapointing even for 2008 numbers. That puts it at 30-31/25 for 2007 numbers. The numbers for the city pretty much knocks it out of the economy car class. Wonder what the Xc will get?

drfill · April 2007

Losing EPA isn't surprising, but the front legroom loss is weird, as the vehicle is a foot longer.

DrFill

bamacar · April 2007

Losing 2 or 3 mpg is understandable, but 5 is bad news. They should have tweaked the 1.8 instead of installing the engine out of Grandma's Camry. What is the target audience of Scion anyway?

sbohlson · April 2007

The whole reason I bought a Scion in the past was the head and leg room. If they have really decreased that much then I've got no reason to buy one. I'll have to actually sit in it, but those specs really make me worry.

nippononly · April 2007

I agree, that's totally mediocre. Gas in my neck of the woods hasn't been under $3/gallon for more than month in the last year.

The new xD should do much better - it uses the Corolla powertrain instead, and it also has a lower profile, so less wind resistance. I bet the xD does about the same as the Matrix does now: 29/34 auto, 30/36 manual.

alpha01 · May 2007

I thought it was the Corolla powertrain, but its not. It's a Dual VVTi engine, and the Corolla's isn't.

What I cannot tell yet is if the xD's engine is the first USA debut of Toyota's new family of 4s....

The edmunds.com article makes me think this may indeed be the case...

"it features a rambunctious four-cylinder engine that Toyota has never before offered in North America."

EPA comparisons are going to become very confusing. I'd be surprised if the xB actually loses 5 MPG in overall driving. I would expect it'd be more like 3-4.

(FWIW, the slightly heavier but more aero tC gets 26 MPG with the 5M as per Consumer Reports, which, IME, is generally fairly accurate with it Overall MPG estimates, if not a bit low.)

~alpha

mcmanus · May 2007

I test drove a tC 5M and wasn't impressed. Acceleration was nothing special, didn't feel sporty, the long doors made it hard to get out (especially in tight parking spots), and the high window sill made me feel like a gangster driving through the hood. The aftermarket products must help with the first two issues if sales are that strong. And I'm 50, so caulk up the last two comments to targeting a different market demographic.

xB mileage will probably depend on gearing more than weight or aerodynamics. Regardless, there seems to be a lot of content/relability value here.

If this is a new 1.8L I hope it smoothed out the previous roughness at high rpm. How new (revolutionary) is this technology? Has it been used elsewhere? For how long? Personally I being the first kid on the block and putting 25-30K miles on per year it puts me closer to the bleeding edge. BTW I blew the tranny out of my 1997 Camry (first year product). Up until then I didn't worry about first year Honda/Toyota products. Now I'm wary of all first year products (and all domestic cars period).

Still don't know why they didn't fill the gap between 1.8L and 2.4L. Marketing wise it would have looked good versus Civic and removed the perception of being behind other 2.0L or 2.0L+ competitors.

alpha01 · May 2007

Check out some of the current conversation in the Corolla forum - most people are happy that Toyota is going to stick with a 1.8L in that vehicle. I don't really care about displacement - for me, its the balance between acceleration and efficiency. And, I expect different balances for different types of vehicles.

Where the next generation Corolla is concerned, if a 1.8L engine can move the car smartly (as does the engine in Honda's Civic) while still providing top notch efficiency (as does the engine in Honda's Civic), I guess I just don't see the advantage or necessity of a 2.0 or 2.0+ engine. [Now, if we're talking a sporting edition Corolla, thats a different story.]

Regarding marketing, my feeling is that a majority buyers of compact cars could care less that the Sentra uses a 2.0L engine while the Civic uses a 1.8L, for example. It's a moot point. 0-60, and MPG figures much more so... seem to resonate with this crowd.

Toyota has employed Dual-VVTi beginning with its GR series of V6 engines, I believe, so this is not the first application of that technology.

~alpha

eldaino · May 2007

vvt-i isn't really new, i just don't think it was ever used on anything but the xrs engines as far as corollas/matrixes go. I cant wait for the xd. I think it'll be great. The toyota blade (or whatever it will be called ) should be awesome as well.

I'm glad they are using the new 1.8.

eldaino · May 2007

good post alpha!

2008 Scion Xb

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